Posted by Bibleman [Bibleman] on October 31, 1999 at 13:28:55 {MDPAlM8llYMRXA6xmpscslyACFuF8c}:
In Reply to: *WTS DARKNESS-EMBARRASSING posted by WW on October 31, 1999 at 07:51:06:
I'm not lost.
The "great tribulation" was supposed to be aimed at "Judea" not the whole world: Matthew 24:16 "Then let those in JUDEA begin fleeing to the mountains..
What does that mean? Literal Judea? The Jews were in exile at this time. "Judea" here thus refers to where the natural Jews were. The highest concentration of Jews, that is, the largest Jewish settlement was Warsaw, Poland. That was now the figurative "Judea."
The disgusting thing causing desolation was the Nazi army, who in 1939 literally completely surrounded "Judea" (Warsaw, Poland) and bombarded it with huge jumbo canons. That was the "disgusting thing in a holy place."
After the Nazi takeover of Poland, the Warsaw ghetto was eventually bricked off from the rest of the city after which those within those walls were totally liquidated in the gas chambers until the ghetto was completely wiped out.
So, literally, once the initial bombardment and capture was over, if you got out of Warsaw before it was bricked in, literally escaping to the mountains if necessary, then you could have been saved. Otherwise, 100% of the ghetto got wiped out.
Listen to this prophecy: "..for then there wil be great tribulation such as has not occured since the world's beginning until now, no nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, NO FLESH would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short."
How is that fulfilled? "No flesh would be saved?"
This simply means that the "flesh" of the Jews were facing total and complete extermination. That was Hitler's aim, was it not? He might have accomplished it if the war drug on or he won the war. That is what this is talking about. Still, this also implies that only a remnant would survive. That is, most would be killed. And that is what happened. The Jews killed represented 2/3rds of their population. Ending WWII when it ended saved that nation from total extermination.
And this was something that was to shock the world. This was something that was unique in the eyes of world history. Something that would shock the world. Nothing is more shocking than the HOLOCAUST. It is called the "worst event in human history." Pertetrated by German so-called "Christians" no less, with the blessing of the Catholic Church, who did nothing.
So that prophecy is fulfilled.
But most importantly, this was just the critical and key sign that was to occur BEFORE the Messiah arrives. That "tribulation would end" because the Bible says at 24:29 that "Immediately after the tribulation of those days.... then the sign of the son of man will appear in the heavens."
So this tribulation against "Judea", an intense but LOCAL situation for the Jews from which one could escape (i.e. The Germans weren't seeking to exterminate the Polish, Italians, French or Russians, like they were the Jews. They were the specific target) if they ran in time as soon as the Holocaust started. This nightmare of all nightmares would end, and the Jews would eventually return to Palestine and become a legitimate nation again, not just a people in exile. And they have!
So why is it I'm wrong about this? The "great tribulation" has to be part of the signs leading up to when the Messiah would arrive. It has to be over and done with before he even arrives. It happens to Judea, but it is supposed to be a world-shocking event.
So why am I wrong about this? Huh?
This was supposed to happen all within one generation from 1914.
So, tell me. If I'm wrong? Then what event actually fulfilled the "great tribulation" against "Judea" between 1914 and 1994?
What event fulfills that prophecy better than the Holocaust?
Nothing does! That's it. The "great tribulation" was the HOLOCAUST. It was over before a period of "darkening of the sun and moon" (45 years to fulfill the 1290 days and 1335 days) before the Messiah would arrive. The 1290 days ended when the Jewish "trampling" began to end in 1947 fulfilling the 1290 days. Then 45 years later their Messiah would arrive...1992. But the HOLOCAUST was over by then. This was "immediately after" the HOLOCAUST which ended in 1945.
So all you can do is say from the sidelines that I'm wrong as the WTS is wrong, but you don't give any explanation or basis for that claim.
Anybody can say:"Hey, he's WRONG..." Without giving any counter-arguments as to WHY that person is wrong or why you think they are wrong.
So where is your argument proving me wrong?
You don't have one.
So all I can do is to give you back what you've given me and just say that it is not ME who is wrong and doesn't understand, but YOU who don't have a clue about the Bible or how it must be fulfilled. It is not me who is wrong but YOU!
If I'm wrong about this...let's see your counter argument. Otherwise. It is YOU who is wrong. Not me. Quite simple.
You don't know what you're talking about, as usual.
I'm RIGHT. And You... are WRONG! ...as usual.
Know this.
..or give your counters!
Cheers,
Bibleman