# 2 BUSTED from the GB

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Posted by ros4GB [ros] on October 30, 1999 at 16:56:22 {G0PnT/qYmkdmhhsMJ.h27/SY5I9NtE}:

This message was received from the GB in reply to BUSTED, ref: http://www.hourglass2.org/wwwboard/messages/182706.html

Dear Busted,

Thank you for taking the time to comment regarding my post to Shamrock. The following may be a helpful to you and others who read this.

My response to Shamrock was intended to address issues of compassion toward Pioneers, Bethelites, and others who work very hard and receive little care from the Society at the end of their working years. It was my hope that by posting it on the open forum it would help others see that I share such concerns. Shamrock made some very good points. My comments addressed the issue that Bethel workers, like Pioneers, have limited income, and the Society has the means to do more if it wanted to. Shamrock is very correct on that.

Let's examine your comments point by point:

YOU STATE: 'You know the expression, if you give a man enough rope he will eventually hang himself?

MY COMMENT: Your opening suggests to me that you are more concerned with discrediting me than with the issues at hand. Rest assured I am not offended by this, but I believe that the following will be important for you to consider.

YOU STATE: 'He makes the comment that the Society is heavily invested in the Stock Market. This simply isn't true. They have long and short term T-Bills, Gic's etc but it has actually been the Society's policy that the stock market is a form of gambling and it would be an inapprorpiate use of the brothers money. (Numerous letters from Brooklyn Treasurer's Office to all Branch Accounting/ Treasury Depart have indicated this stance.) To gamble with donated funds would not be acting as faithful stewards!'

MY COMMENT: The Society is the beneficiary many estates and trusts. There has been the case starting with the Charles Russell estate to this very day. Many of these estates and trusts are composed of cash, real estate, stocks, and bonds. One such case is the trust fund willed to the Society by a married couple for loaning money to congregations to build Kingdom Halls. That fund required the money be loaned out at 3% interest to congregations for constructing Kingdom Halls. The interest was charged, as I understand, to offset the effects of inflation and keep the fund expanding for more Kingdom Halls. Due to the rapid expansion of the Quick-Build program the interest charged today is closer to market rates. Also, much of the new money available for Kingdom Hall construction now comes from other sources, such as donations, estates, trusts, etc., which do not have the 3% interest rate limit. I will discuss the reasonableness of charging interest at another time.

You are correct that Society policy has prohibited branches and local congregations from investing in the stock market. There are additional factors you need to consider. At one time the Society prohibited congregations from even having savings accounts. It was the consensus that we should not be making money from donations to the Kingdom work. In recent years that policy has been modified to allow congregations to save money in various safe instruments, such as CDs, T-Bills, and general savings accounts. This way their money would grow as they saved for a specific project, such as remodeling Kingdom Halls. That way the whole congregation benefits from the earnings.

The Society has even published articles as far back as 1981 encouraging the brothers and sisters to feel free to invest in the stock market. I remember one article that discussed how to engage in short-selling. They encouraged the friends to utilize investment experts.

While Branch offices and congregations have not been permitted to invest in the stock market, the Society has always reserved the right for itself to do so. While it is true that much of our funds are in various secure instruments, such as T-bills, etc., we have dedicated individuals to monitor stock investments from many of the estates, trusts, and stock portfolios willed to the Society. Many of these are also managed by mutual funds. Senior staff elders and even members among the Governing Body have spent time at the NYSE monitoring and handling the Society's investments. You don't have senior persons like that go down there to the exchange unless there are enough funds to be concerned about.

My term 'heavily invested' was only meant to convey to Shamrock that we do have the financial means to do more for our full time workers, including Pioneers. The Society has a sizeable investment by means of estates and trusts. I did not mean to imply that every last dollar was sent off to the stock market.

YOU STATE: 'Yet one more nail. Comments on the Vow of Poverty seems off as well - "Gifts above a certain value"?? According to the wording of the Vow gifts are acceptable. No mention of value is ever made. One can take on extra work as well as long as it is only for basic living expenses. No explanation of what those expense are were ever detailed to my knowledge. He was right though that the "Vow" was strictly instituted as a tax consideration.

MY COMMENT: When a person arrives here for their Bethel assignment, they MUST sign an Internal Revenue Service form taking the Vow of Poverty. By virtue of being a volunteer in a religious society, their income is exempt from taxation. If they take an outside job, even for additional living expenses, they void their tax-exempt status, and subject themselves to being taxed on the income and benefits received from the Society. They can cause the Society to become an employer and have to pay a portion of Social Security and withhold for income taxes. The Society cannot tolerate this and will dismiss any person caught taking outside employment. Other religious institutions, such as the Catholic Church, are subjected to this arrangement as well.

As for gifts, a Bethel worker cannot receive cash or non-cash gifts in exchange for their services at Bethel. The IRS would consider that as side-stepping the Vow of Poverty. Families may, and often do, make certain love-gifts such as clothing, small appliances, pay for air travel home, etc., for relatives serving at Bethel. These generally do not fall into the rule regarding gifts. There is also an IRS limitation of $10,000 per person per year on gifts. This has to do with the giver's tax obligation. The Society, for example, may give a gift to a retiring Bethel worker, especially long time members who leave, up to $10,000 without incurring a tax liability.
YOU STATE: 'I am at a loss as to why someone would want to perpetrate such a deceitful impersonation.

MY COMMENT: I doubt that anyone would perpetrate such a scheme. Given what I see in this forum, I am convinced that an impostor would not have tried such a thing. As a member of the Governing Body, I do not know everything and every detail of the Society's operations. If you think for one minute that you can ask any Governing Body member any detail about the organization and we will know it, then you are living in a dream world. Too much goes on here in New York and around the world. That is why we have such a large staff assisting us here and throughout the world. We are utterly overwhelmed by all that we have going on.

I hope that the foregoing proves of some help to you or others who read this.

Sincerely, ---

Follow Ups:

- *2 BUSTED from the GB U R an imposter 09:47:31 10/31/99 (0)
- *2 BUSTED from the GB YaYa 08:45:02 10/31/99 (0)
- *2 BUSTED from the GB COMF 07:49:51 10/31/99 (9)
  - **2 BUSTED from the GB ros 09:53:51 10/31/99 (8)
    - ***2 BUSTED from the GB 5GJW 11:04:45 10/31/99 (6)
      - ****2 BUSTED from the GB ros 13:36:14 10/31/99 (5)
        - *****2 BUSTED from the GB 5GJW 15:14:03 10/31/99 (4)
          - ******2 BUSTED from the GB ros 23:22:54 10/31/99 (3)
            - *******2 BUSTED from the GB 5GJW 06:09:04 11/01/99 (2)
              - ********2 BUSTED from the GB ros 07:03:04 11/01/99 (1)
                - *********2 BUSTED from the GB 5GJW 18:33:20 11/01/99 (0)
    - ***2 BUSTED from the GB COMF 10:25:19 10/31/99 (0)
- *2 BUSTED from the GB metatron 05:05:53 10/31/99 (2)
  - **2 BUSTED from the GB Observer 07:08:07 10/31/99 (1)
    - ***2 BUSTED from the GB metatron 07:24:09 10/31/99 (0)
- *2 BUSTED from the GB 5GJW 19:12:11 10/30/99 (1)
  - **2 BUSTED from the GB E. A. Poe © 05:39:41 10/31/99 (0)
- *2 BUSTED from the GB Observer 18:37:41 10/30/99 (4)
  - **2 BUSTED from the GB UcantStandit 08:10:10 10/31/99 (3)
    - ***2 BUSTED from the GB Observer 08:43:30 10/31/99 (2)
      - ****2 BUSTED from the GB PotKetBlack 15:03:31 10/31/99 (0)
      - ****2 BUSTED from the GB Chag 09:23:15 10/31/99 (0)

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