# *Discussion summaries

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Posted by The Solution [Bibleman] on October 29, 1999 at 14:53:53 {CAtoZJLIp2MSSTtTA17sslyACFuF8c}:

In Reply to: Discussion summaries posted by Rational on October 29, 1999 at 13:28:35:

Thanks for this summary. I had to reconsider the implications of this.

The actual problem, though, is ignoring Matthew 24:29 which says that a period of darkness would ensue "immediately after the tribulation of those days" meaning that the great-tribulation would be over even before the Messiah arrives! If you check out the details of the great tribulation you'll see it is a LOCAL event, focussed on "Judea" that is, fleshly Israel. The "great tribulation" was the HOLOCAUST.

So their whom concept of the "END of the system of things" being Armageddon is totally wrong to start off with. The "era" or "system of things" that is the context of these signs, as Luke points out is the concept of the "appointed times of the nations." That is a specific "era" or "system of things" that he was talking about. So to simplify, the "END of the system of things" is not Armageddon but simply the "End of the gentile times."

When the Messiah arrives and takes up kingdom power, he ENDS the gentile times since he is the one with the legal right to represent Jehovah on the earthly throne of David.

So two wrong points must be fixed first:

1) The "great tribulation" was the HOLOCAUST and it ends before the Messiah comes in kingdom power.

2) The "END of the system of things" is not Armageddon, but the END of the "appointed times of the nations" or the end of the "gentile times" as is commonly stated.

That means, the "END of the system of things" occurs specifically 2520 years after the fall of Jerusalem. And that brings us to another error that complicates this issue.

The 70-weeks prophecy requires that the Messiah appear 483 years from the time the Jews began to rebuild Jerusalem and that means we must redate the 1st of Cyrus to 455BCE. When you do that, then the fall of Jerusalem 74 years later must have occurred in 529BCE and thus the "end of the gentile times" does not occur in 1914 as the witnesses believe but in 1972.

Now, when you have all those things in place, the judgment of the nations make sense.

Key points are:

1) The judgment does not take place until the actual "END" takes place, that is, the end of the gentile times which ends at the Messiah's Second Coming. It is at that time that he sends his angels forth to judge the nations during a short period of time before Armageddon and millennium starts.

So with the END occurring in 1992, that is the END of the gentile times, the judgment period would have begun at that time.

We all know that when Christ takes up kingdom power, Satan is cast to the earth, and there is a period of time that occurs when Satan and th nations are still operating after Jesus takes up kingdom power. It is at this time that the judgment of the nations will be taking place. First with God's own house and then the nations. And then Armageddon.

So the witnesses will have problems with this because they don't have the correct understanding of 1) the great tribulation (which was the HOLOCAUST and which happens before the Messiah arrives), 2) What the "END" really is, that is simply the "END of the gentile times", and 3) That they have the wrong chronological date for the end of the gentile times since it is based upon the fall of Babylon in 539BCE, a date they thought they could trust, when in fact it was part of the overall revisionist dating and chronology of the Persian Period during the Seleucid Area which at the point of the 1st of Cyrus, 82 years of fake Persian history had been added. Part of that 82-year expansion involved a reduction in the Neo-Babylonian period of 26 years, which is why the Bible and other sources mention a 70-year exile whereas the current chronology does not allow for that much of a "post-conflagration" exile period.

As long as they ignore Matthew 24:29 which clearly says that the tribulation is OVER even before the Messiah arrives in kingdom power, they will never be able to resolve the conflicts they are experiencing now with the judgment of the nations.

Thanks for this review. I hadn't paid much attention to the discussion before and I definitely needed to!

Cheers,
Bibleman

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