# *PAROUSIA="NEARNESS"

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Posted by More! [Bibleman] on October 29, 1999 at 23:37:56 {CAtoZJLIp2MRXA6xmpscslyACFuF8c}:

In Reply to: PAROUSIA="NEARNESS" posted by Not presence on October 29, 1999 at 22:48:22:

Okay, this is hot!

CONFIRMATION:
First of all, a fundamental confirmation that the signs occur BEFORE the Messiah arrives and therefore these are signs of his NEARNESS and not PRESENCE. Note Matthew 24:33

> "Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is NEAR at the doors."

And what does this mean? It means that he doesn't ARRIVE and become PRESENT until after these signs occur. So there are not signs of his presence but of his "nearness"!

Now just to show you how totally wrong the WTS has this and to show they clearly understand that "presence" is POST ARRIVAL is their own explanation of the use of presence for "parousia".
That is, based upon the wrong date of 1914, which is the date for the Messiah's actual "coming" or "arrival", they think that "parousia" means what happens AFTER the coming, instead of before. Completely the oppposite of what the scriptures are telling us that these signs would be a clue that the Messiah was "near" and thus had not actually arrived in kingdom power. Here is their incredibly wrong concept, taken from the reference section:

*** Rbi8 1577 5B Christ's Presence (Parousia) *** “From this view of the word it is evident, I think, that neither the English word ‘coming’ nor the Latin ‘advent’ is the best representative of the original. They do not conform to its etymology; they do not correspond to the idea of the verb from which it is derived; nor could they appropriately be substituted for the more exact word, ‘presence,’ in the cases where the translators used the latter. Nor is the radical [root] idea of them the same. ‘Coming’ and ‘advent’ give most prominently the conception of an approach to us, motion toward us; ‘parousia’ that of being with us, without reference to how it began. The force of the former ends with the arrival; that of the latter begins with it. Those are words of motion; this of rest. The space of time covered by the action of the former is limited, it may be momentary; that of the latter unlimited . . . .

Well, there you have it folks! "The force of the former ["coming", "advent"] ends with the arrival; that of the latter ["presence"] begins with it."

Now, that is BASICALLY TRUE! That is, the Messiah does become PRESENT after he arrives, that is, after his actual coming.

The problem is though, that the "signs" occur BEFORE he actually arrives. But since the WTS thinks Jesus first arrived in 1914, they think the signs that are occurring (earthquakes, etc.) are happening DURING his presence which only begins AFTER his arrival.

But the Bible clearly isn't drawing this picture.
The Bible doesn't show the Messiah ARRIVING until AFTER those signs occur. Those signs are indicators as to when he is NEAR AT THE DOORS! His being near at the doors means he hasn't yet arrived!

So because of their poor definition, they have it backwards. Thus "presence" works for the pre-arrival signs given in the Bible when they have Jesus arriving in 1914. That's why "presence" is a bad translation here for "parousia" because it is misleading.

What "parousia" really is referring to are the pre-arrival signs that lead up to his actual Second Coming and subsequent "presence."

So they got thrown off with the general definition of "along side" when actually the focus is not BESIDE but NEAR TO.

Again, just read the above scripture and you will clearly see those signs were to be watched for so that they would know when the end was NEAR. The "END" is not Armageddon but the "end of the gentile times" ("appointed times of the nations"--Luke 21:24). So the signs happen BEFORE his actual "coming" and thus before his actual "presence."

Now please note, that is why the scriptures show even the Second Coming, which is hearlded by the "sign of the Son of man in the clouds" does not occur until "immediately after the tribulation of those days.... All these signs, the earthquakes, the food shortages, and even the preaching of the "good news" must all occur BEFORE the "END" of the gentile times. When the Messiah takes up kingdom power, he ENDS the gentile times, the time when the gentiles would rule with no Davidic king on the earth.

And that is another reason we know 1914 is a wrong date. Because if you just step back a bit and look at the whole concept, you can see that the last thing that occurs, which ENDS it all, is when the Messiah arrives and takes up kingdom power. And that doesn't happen until AFTER those signs and at the very end of that generation (but not past that generation.)

The Last GenerationThat generation of signs would begin with a world war ("kingdom against kingdom and nation against nation"), which was WWI. It would end after a generation of 80 years (Ps. 90:10) in 1994. But before that, the END must come. That is, the "end of the gentile times" when the Messiah begins to rule. So 1914 is a totally wrong date since it occurs right at the beginning of that generation, before any of the signs take place. Furthermore, as noted, the "great tribulation" is not Armageddon but is a tribulation focussed on "Judea" which means the Jews and that tribulation was the HOLOCAUST which also occurs before the Messiah begins his reign and his "presence" in kingdom power. So they have it totally wrong. They are totally in the dark even with this BASIC understanding about the Messiah's Second Coming.

But we needn't stay in the darkness. We now have more than enough confirmation from secular sources, if that impresses you, that the original dating for the fall of Jerusalem in the 19th year of Nebuchadnezzar II occurred in 529BCE. That being the case, 1992 is the correct date for fulfilling the time of Christ's "advent" or "arrival". It occurs near the end of that generation but not later than 1994. It cuts it pretty close, but we would expect that.

OUR LESSON:
So our lesson is, again, the BIBLE IS TRUE, the WTS are in darkness. You only need to look at these issues more clearly to see this.

Plain and simple: The "signs" of his closeness happen before the Messiah's arrival in kingdom power.

Read this. Know this.

Cheers,
Bibleman

Follow Ups:

- **PAROUSIA="NEARNESS" JanG 04:43:05 10/30/99 (3)
  - ***PAROUSIA="NEARNESS" Bibleman 09:05:45 10/30/99 (2)
    - ****PAROUSIA="NEARNESS" mntzion 12:30:09 10/30/99 (1)
      - *****PAROUSIA="NEARNESS" Bibleman 17:06:44 10/30/99 (0)

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