# *********Awake! 12/8/99

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Posted by Luis [followthelamb] on October 28, 1999 at 17:12:58 {BrTq3yWfsYQr78U8rp0YTco2oJsp5U}:

In Reply to: ********Awake! 12/8/99 posted by Friend on October 28, 1999 at 15:56:31:

"I would still like your answer to the question, How do you explain the clear association between
"great signs from heaven" and war, great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various
places, etc…?"

Hi Friend:

The wars and disorders that Jesus mentions in Mt 24 and Lk 21 are a series of events ever since the first century that would plague mankind all throughout history until Christ's Return or Parousia. That's why in Luke the "great signs from heaven" are associated with the events in question.

These events that Jesus mentions in no way indicate some kind of "sign" that would precede Christ's Return within a "generation" or some kind of calculable time period showing that Christ returned or is about to return. Or events since 1914 to indicate Christ's Presence. It would be very arbitrary to assign these events to a specific time period as some kind of "sign" indicating Christ's Return.

Mt 24:6, Mark 13:7 and Luke 21:9 clearly show that these world events are not some kind of "sign" to indicate Christ's Return.
Mt 24:6 - "For these things must take place, but the end is not yet."
Mark 13:7 - "these things must take place, but the end is not yet."
Luke 21:9 - "For these things must occur first, but the end does not occur immediately."
The only events associated with Christ's Return are the "great signs from heaven" (celestial phenomena) that are still future even according to the Society.

Mark 13:33 says: "Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come." (NIV)

When the disciples asked "When will these things be?" they were concerned about the destruction of the Temple also. The wars, earthquakes and disorders were not some kind of "sign" that would indicate the destruction of the Temple. The only "sign" Christ gave that would indicate the imminence of its destruction was the "encamped armies" surrounding Jerusalem. In like manner, the only events associated with Christ's imminent Return are "the tribulation of those days," the celestial phenomena and "the sign of the Son of man." As Jesus states regarding these events: "Likewise also YOU, when YOU see all these things, know that he is near (not "here") at the doors."

As far as being disfellowshiped for a "personal disagreement alone", a judicial committee is now in the works for a friend who expressed to two elders that he doesn't believe that the Society is the "faithful and discreet slave." Even in Franz's book "Crisis of Conscience" on page 293 a copy of a letter from the Society states that point.

Follow Ups:

- **********Awake! 12/8/99 Friend 17:28:08 10/28/99 (5)
  - ***********Awake! 12/8/99 Luis 18:00:58 10/28/99 (4)
    - ************Awake! 12/8/99 Friend 19:44:18 10/28/99 (2)
      - *************Awake! 12/8/99 Luis 05:07:26 10/29/99 (1)
        - **************Awake! 12/8/99 Friend 06:49:51 10/29/99 (0)
    - ************Awake! 12/8/99 Luis 19:39:41 10/28/99 (0)

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