# ***********FOR AL: CHRONOLOGY CONT'D

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Posted by Al; [Aldurant] on October 24, 1999 at 01:23:06 {f8eW6hUOe2mlvf6PLwvct74NX2uzuA}:

In Reply to: **********FOR AL: CHRONOLOGY CONT'D posted by Bibleman on October 22, 1999 at 23:26:50:

:but making the interpretation fit the REALITIES of when they are supposed to occur.

Here is the problem. You ARE "making the interpretation fit". "Holes in your interpretation"? They are patterns in your mind. Neither you nor anyone else has demonstrated that the scriptures were written before the actual facts. In the case of Jesus, what we have is third party assertion that he fullfilled prophesies. There is no evidence that these are any more than assertions; a legend built up over the years.

Why would I want it to be vague? The miraculous end of suffering on earth is something that I would die a painful death to accomplish. The idea that God will accomplish this soon would suit me better than any alternative I can conceive. The problem comes when religious leaders, which really includes yourself, in principle, direct people to actions and mental focus beyond virtue and love based on unfounded assertions. Much in the way of human assets is wasted, and net suffering increases. I do not have the right to believe your assertions based on the over all evidence presented. It all no doubt seems quite logical to you, but to me, it appears an irrelevant obsession. People have been superimposing patterns, numerical and otherwise over the scriptures for centuries. It seems to me that The Bible indicated that accurate interpretations and changes would be marked by clear evidence. It is a form of lie to try to get someone to accept your assertions, which would be a judgement made by them, yet simultaneoously try to get them to regard their own judgement as invalid.

What very careful observation and measurement of the creation tells us that there was no earth-wide flood in 2370 BCE or anywhere close; That the languages did not divide around 2250 BCE; That humans and extremely similar tool-using predecessors have walk the earth by the thousands, perhaps the millions well over 100,000 years ago. These facts alone, not at all an issue of faith any more than two plus two, make much Bible interpretation unintelligible. A study of "prophetic" methods reveals that catchy little patterns can be found in almost anything. Manipulations of language; strong-willed assertions; the standard psychological techniques religion has been using for thousands of years; all of these dissolve in time and up comes a new interpreter, to rewrite the past and gain psychological control of his fellowman, making him feel like he is in control. The Bible speaks of "fruitage", and this is it: psychological manipulation and emotional coercion.

None of this addresses the truth of God nor the idea of virtue, which may include self-sacrifice. These things are alive and well, but being sadly misrepresented by often well-meaning people who feel insecure if certain preconceived manefestations of God are not accepted as fact. Real trust in God would not require any such thing. Real courage would not require such control over ideas about which we have so little data. To say that it is a virtue to believe or accept thus and such a thing and, in effect, a sin not to is the epitomy of control of man over man. It is wrong and destructive. We have real problems to solve and need as many as we can get to help solve them. Saying we are wicked for not believing that someone else will solve them, so our time is best spent merely talking of unprovable, maybe even disproven, theoretical things, works in the opposite direction. Some victim of a crime, a disease, a war, a wreck, does not get their relief in time, because the composite effort of man was just not enough in their part of the world. People were on drugs, on alcohol, watching tv, or sitting back in their comfort waiting for God to intervene. And yes, they are in comfort, even though they may spend hours on end speaking of the demands that God allegedly makes on suffering mankind in addition to common virtue and effort. And they are "sitting back", because what are they doing, really? The sreaming and the dying continues while they talk of things they do not know.
We must be focused on what we are created to accomplish, because that is what we were made to do. The monster is coming for some, and we must be ready for it. And it is not God. He is not our problem. The will of God is expressed through his creation, which he made us well able to carefully measure. How may this be done with the changing legends and threats of man? It is social control and that alone.

I think we need to go to the top again, and I can't promise my frequency of reading posts in the near future.

Al

Follow Ups:

- ************FOR AL: CHRONOLOGY CONT'D Bibleman 11:23:48 10/24/99 (9)
  - *************FOR AL: CHRONOLOGY CONT'D Al; 15:11:24 10/24/99 (8)
    - **************FOR AL: CHRONOLOGY CONT'D Bibleman 20:11:41 10/24/99 (7)
      - ***************FOR AL: CHRONOLOGY CONT'D Al; 21:13:08 10/24/99 (6)
        - ****************FOR AL: CHRONOLOGY CONT'D Thermoluminenes 04:51:33 10/25/99 (0)
        - ****************FOR AL: CHRONOLOGY CONT'D Bibleman 02:06:20 10/25/99 (4)
          - *****************FOR AL: CHRONOLOGY CONT'D Al; 20:57:32 10/25/99 (3)
            - ******************FOR AL: CHRONOLOGY CONT'D Bibleman 01:49:27 10/26/99 (0)
            - ******************FOR AL: CHRONOLOGY CONT'D Missing Link 21:45:07 10/25/99 (1)
              - *******************FOR AL: CHRONOLOGY CONT'D Bibleman 01:05:32 10/26/99 (0)

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