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[I posted a message almost identical to the one presented in "An Embarrassing Thread at MSG's Discussion Forum" at the Discussion Board of the official web site of MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) on July 22, 2002. Dkime posted the following message there in response to my message. (MSG is Master Strategy Goupe which Mr. James R. Davis is associated with.)]

dkime      posted 07-22-2002 08:09 AM
Member

Julian, there is a wealth of good information on Jim Davis' site, but there is also a good deal of bunk, imo. That's the nature of the internet. I have always seen James Davis as more of a self promoter, than a real promoter of motorcycle safety. As with all info on the internet, you have to form your own judgements. If you write a lot and make it look pretty it looks authoritative. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. I've had numerous discussions with James Davis, and I don't see him as much of an authority or an intiator. I think he writes a lot and self promotes. BTW, Dave's seven points are almost directly from MSF materials, and all are excellent techniques. I find it truly amazing that Davis would say counterweighting is not for new riders when he knows it's taught at every course every day - and it works. Imo, he's choosing to be different just for the purpose of self promotion - look at me, I'm smarter than the course. The only one of Dave's points that is not taught is that of pointing the knee, however, I don't see that as a *principal* point - I see it more as a product. I think if you turn your head fully behind you and slide your fanny over away from the turn, the net product will be to point your knee somewhat in the direction of the turn. So I see it as a product rather than an initiator.

If you want to visit the site of a rider who has ridden and taught vitually every day of his adult life, visit: http://www.survivalskills.co.uk /

Kevin is a personal friend, and he knows of which he speaks!{g} Ride safe,

Don Kime - VFR750F, GL1500SE, GL1100 / http://www.rideforum.com OH - M/C Safety Instructor/RiderCoach

[On July 31, 2002, I noticed the following posts in the thread "Making tight R or L Turns at the disucussion forum of MSG.]

Making tight R or L Turns
 
From: Lynn
Remote Name: 207.44.45.114
Remote User:
Date: 30 Jul 2002
Time: 10:06:22

Comments
 
First, let me say, this site has helped me greatly. I guess I am what you call a Newbee?. I read something I didn't understand. So, please help me out. I think it was posted by Jim Davis. Regarding teaching new riders how to make tight turns. He said, with the bike running, you (SLIP) the clutch and walk the bike in the direction of the turn. What does the term (SLIP) the clutch mean???. Please let me know or explain how this is done. Thanks for your help

Re: Making tight R or L Turns
 
From: James R. Davis
Remote Name: 216.63.80.145
Remote User:
Date: 30 Jul 2002
Time: 10:29:02

Comments
 
When using the clutch lever you will find that when it is pulled fully to the grip the engine is completely disconnected from the rear wheel - the clutch is fully disengaged.

As you let out a little on the clutch lever there comes a point where you will notice that you have just reached your friction zone - where the clutch itself is just beginning to engage. At this point there is very little forward motion energy to the rear wheel as the clutch is 'slipping' greatly.

You now EASE the clutch lever just a little farther out and the bike begins to move. The clutch is still 'slipping', though not as greatly as before. This is where you want to be when you start to drive out of a dead stopped starting position.

As you ease the clutch lever still farther out you will come to a point where the clutch is no longer slipping at all - you will have passed out of the clutch 'friction zone' and the engine will be fully connected to the rear wheel. It makes no difference, whatever, if you continue letting out on the clutch lever.

Slow speed control of a motorcycle is almost entirely a function of mastering your left hand's control of the clutch lever. Mastering control of the 'friction zone' is everything when it comes to slow speed riding of a motorcycle.

Re: Making tight R or L Turns
 
From: Lynn
Remote Name: 207.44.45.114
Remote User:
Date: 30 Jul 2002
Time: 16:00:31

Comments
 
Thanks for the quick reply. After work tonight I will try "Slipping" the clutch while trying to make these tight (R/L) turns. I have a 2002 Sportster 883, it seems top heavy to me. This is my 1st bike. I am a female of small stature and I am always afraid the bike to going to topple over when doing these tight turns. I have been riding in a parking lot night after night, weekend after weekend and I can't seem to get the tight turns to work. So tonight I will try walking the bike into a turn while slipping the clutch. I hope this gives me some confidence that the bike won't fall. Thanks again. Lynn New Rider and loving every minute of it.

Re: Making tight R or L Turns
 
From: James R. Davis
Remote Name: 216.63.80.145
Remote User:
Date: 30 Jul 2002
Time: 16:44:58

Comments
 
Bravo! I failed to remind you that while practicing slow tight turns you must NOT use your front brake or you will probably dump that bike. Straighten the bike before you try to stop it.

[Realizing that Mr. Davis never mentions another important factor in making slow tight turns, control of the lean angle of the bike, I posted the following message. It was deleted immediately; however, Lynn was able to read it. I include her reply to my message.]

Dear Lynn:

Slipping a clutch to control speed is one important skill you'd like to have in tight slow turns. You don't want your bike to stall in tight slow turns. Another thing you'd like to be able to do well in tight slow turns is balancing the bike.

Are you leaning your body with the bike into a turn or are you leaning your bike into the turn and letting your body hang out to the outside of the turn? I do the latter. This way, the turn could be tighter and the bike is less likely to fall into the turn.

Julian

Re: Making tight R or L Turns on a 883 Harley
 
From: Lynn
Remote Name: 207.44.45.114
Remote User:
Date: 01 Aug 2002
Time: 10:28:36

Comments
 
Thanks for your comment. I keep my body kind of straight up and try to lean the bike alittle. This is where I have the problem. I am afraid to take the chance & turn that wheel & lean the bike just a little more then I am already doing. But every night I go to the parking lot and try it over and over ....So, as of last night, I feel I am doing it with more ease, but I will practice again tonight and this weekend. I am sure it will come as natural as walking and chewing gum. Some day soon. And I hope its very soon. Lynn

[It's not that Mr. Davis has decided to delete any new posts by me at his site. The following two messages which I posted after posting the above message have remained undeleted.

Note that in the first message below, I don't mention anything about the lean angle of a bike and how a rider should control it.

It's seems that he is only interested in defending his position, which is contrary to what MSF recommends, on the use of rider's body weight to control the lean angle of a bike in slow tight turns.]

Comments
 
Dear Lynn:

One part of the skill test given by the DMV in California I had to take to get my motorcycle license is to go around in a circle with about 24 feet diameter three times in a row without touching the ground with my foot, once in clockwise and another in counterclockwise direction. As riding was totally new to me when I was preparing for the test, I had to practice a lot to become confident enough to take the test. I spent 3 weeks just on this skill. Don't expect to get it right in a few days. Take your time. Here's how you may want to practice:

1. Choose a spot in a parking lot which would become the center of circle you would go around. For me I chose a light pole. If you can't find a suitable object, mark the spot with a piece of masking tape.
   
   
2. Place pieces of masking tape on the circumference of a circle of some radius, say 12 feet, to make the circle perceptible to you. I placed a piece of masking tape at 8 1/8 points of the circumference of a 12 feet radius circle.
   
   
3. Start going around outside of the circle at comfortable, really easy distance from the center. Perhaps, you can mark the circle which you can handle very easily now with pieces of masking tape, too. Two sets of circles set the reference points. One your goal, the other your current limit.
   
   
4. Your objective is to make the circle you can handle easily approach your goal circle little by little. As I said, it could take time, weeks. Each time you practice, be content with a progress of even half a foot. Only you will know how far you can tighten the turn. Abort turning at the first moment you feel uncomfortable continuing. Don't use a brake but just ride out of turning gently into going straight. (When you mark the circle, make sure you have plenty of space around it so that you can escape out of the circle.) Resume your composure and start again from outside of the circle. Also at the first instance you realize you are mentally tired, stop the practice altogether immediately and take a long break. People cannot sustain high level of concentration for much. (Even at lesser level, 90 minutes top. That's why most movies are about 90 minutes to 2 hours long.)

Actually, once you lock in the right combination of speed and the lean angle of your bike after turning into a circle, it's easy to continue going around a circle. Establishing the right combination is the key. So you have to practice to be able to do it with ease.

The above is based on how I practiced. You have to decide for yourself if it's something you want to try.

Measuring a distance is a parking lot can be done with your steps. Measure the length of you shoe, count the number of steps you have to take to cover a distance with each step right next to each other, and multiply the number of steps by the length of shoe.

Another thing you should be comfortable is that we all have one more option of not making tight slow turns. We can go around a block or we can get off the bike and push it around to change the direction of our travel.

Good luck and let us know of your progress.

Julian

Is Visitor Counter Working?
 
From: Julian
Remote Name: 172.194.243.228
Remote User:
Date: 01 Aug 2002
Time: 12:14:20

Comments
 
Dear Mr. Davis:

I've just checked your color coding articles on the Article Index page. The visitor counter on the page shows 1 on my computer. You may want to check if it's working properly.

Julian