Baptists and
Calvinism: An Open Debate That
Never Happened
By
John Orlando
I recently wrote an article (http://www.geocities.com/johnandursula/baptistscalvinism) about the upcoming debate where Drs. James White and Tom Ascol would be debating Drs. Ergun and Emir Caner at Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, Virginia on October 16th. In that article I described some of the recent history and discussions that have already occurred among Evangelicals on the issue of Calvinism, focusing in particular on the interactions that Dr. James White has had with such men as Dr. Norm Geisler and Mr. Dave Hunt. I then provided some background on the difficulties that Drs. White and Ascol had experienced in dealing with both of the Caner brothers, as well as the Liberty University debate team director, Dr. Brett O’Donnell, who was to be the moderator of the debate. The behavior exhibited by our three brothers in Christ (Ergun and Emir Caner and Dr. O’Donnell) left much to be desired both in terms of what one would consider “scholarly” interaction, and also just basic common courtesy that one would expect from even a morally challenged unbeliever, let alone one that names the name of Christ.
As related in the previous article, there was great danger that a debate would never even take place due to what can only be described as the playground antics of the Caner brothers, and Brett O’Donnell, but finally there was a breakthrough. Somewhere along the line the parties involved got together and to their credit they were able to work out a deal for a debate, and even signed a joint statement wherein they acknowledged that the dialogue had been up to that point less than edifying. Don’t be fooled though; the record will plainly show that it was the Caner brothers and Brett O’Donnell alone that had sunk and remained stubbornly entrenched at that less than edifying level. Here is the entire dialogue that proves the point: http://mp3.aomin.org/docs/Caner3.pdf.
The fact of the matter is that Drs. White and Ascol did not exhibit such behavior. Did they voice their frustration a time or two? You bet! But before you say “aha! You see, they went over the line in doing that!” let me remind you that there is nothing wrong with voicing frustration…we see the Lord voicing His frustration with stiff-necked Israel all through the Old Testament. We see our Lord Jesus Christ occasionally express His frustration with the Pharisees and His disciples, and we see others, such as the Apostle Paul, voice his frustration with the behavior of God’s people at the church of Corinth and the churches of Galatia. Drs. Ascol and White were well within their rights to voice their frustration, and they did so in a very constrained manner. When they thought that they had gotten a little carried away with the voicing of that frustration, they would immediately state that, and then apologize. I appreciate the fact they were willing to honestly examine themselves and acknowledge wrongdoing if they felt that they had in fact crossed the line. But in my honest opinion, as an outsider looking in, the fact of the matter is that they never got carried away in voicing their frustration…never. In fact, I often read in amazement at how they never did just lose it. And when one compares the dialogue of Drs. White and Ascol with that of the Caner brothers, and even Brett O'Donnell, the difference in general tone is quite stark indeed.
Why was there any frustration at all in the first place? The problem is that they were dealing with grown Christian men, trained theologians no less (so they say) and post-graduates (so the “Dr.” in front of their names would indicate) that for some reason decided to act completely juvenile. I for one applaud them for their academic accomplishments…I just wish that they would have conducted themselves in a manner worthy not only of the designation “Dr.”, but of the name “Christian.”
Because Drs. White and Ascol
were, to their surprise no doubt, dealing with individuals that were conducting
themselves as juveniles, they certainly felt the pressure to tread very lightly
in the voicing of any frustration whatsoever, lest these men act even more like
juveniles and begin to stomp their feet, throw dirt in the air, and take their
ball and go home. Unfortunately and
sadly, they remained true to the character that they have displayed throughout,
and they stomped their feet and threw dirt in the air anyway, and now there will
be no debate.
Why? What happened? Do
not be deceived and think that it was James White and Tom Ascol that somehow
“coward” at the thought of the debate, or acted unreasonably, and so decided to take their ball and
go home. What they did was akin to
calling out the bully on the block that tries to hide behind a tough facade,
and they did this by simply refusing to succumb to the irrational, highly
suspicious, and ludicrous changes that were going to be foisted upon them
without their input or consent. Tom
Ascol and James White were the men…the scholars…the
Christians that simply refused to throw Christian ethics, common
sense, decency, order, respect, courtesy, matters of principle, and
“scholarship” out of the window. They refused to allow the slight of hand,
now you see it, now you don’t, playground shenanigans of last minute rule
changes by people that were conducting themselves as playground bullies to go
unchecked.
When Drs. White and Ascol were
notified less than 2 weeks from the day of the debate that the entire format for
the debate, which had been previously agreed upon by all of the participants, was going to be changed, and the time of the debate reduced from 3 to
2 1/2 hours, shock and dismay hardly qualify as adequate descriptors for what Drs.
White, Ascol, and everyone else that was following the proceedings surely felt.
Dr. White then just issued what I will call the “plea for common courtesy and
fairness.” Dr. White interacted
with Brett O'Donnell, and those talks were, shall we say, fruitless. Dr.
White also attempted to
contact the Caner brothers numerous times through various means…and all of it was
ignored. Finally, in exasperation,
Dr. White just told them that if he received no response to his request for
dialogue on these matters no later than 5p.m. October 6th, then
he and Dr. Ascol would have no choice but to remove themselves from the debate.
If I may be given some creative liberty here, Drs. White and Ascol were
basically saying this:
“Gentleman, look;
the game is set to be played by the rules that have been agreed upon by
everyone, and we have prepared ourselves in accordance with those agreed upon
rules. No one, and we do mean no
one, ever changes the rules so close to game time, especially
without the input and consent of all of the players!
We are set to play the game as agreed upon.
If you refuse to play that game—you know, the game that you
agreed to play by the rules you helped put in place—then
there really can be no game, and the way you have conducted yourself really
isn’t fair, and certainly not becoming a scholar or a Christian, now is it?
No one; and we do mean no one, ever changes the
rules so close to the scheduled game time, and no one; and we do mean no
one, ever just simply dictates the rules without any input from all
of the participants. If you don’t agree to discuss this as Christian gentlemen
and true scholars, then you are in essence saying that you are going to take
your ball and go home, because the only game that can be played is the one
previously agreed upon, or at least one that is fair in that all of the
participants discuss and agree to any and all changes.
We’re ready, any time and any place for that.
Here we stand. Let us know
if you are going to play, or if you are going to take your ball and go home no
later than 5pm, October 6th. What’s
your move?”
Their “move” was to ignore
James White’s repeated attempts to contact them until the very last seconds of
the 5pm deadline that Dr. White gave this group to respond to the “plea for
common courtesy and fairness” issued by Drs. White and Ascol.
When they finally did respond, it was to inform Drs. White and Ascol that
the changes that they had single-handedly devised and sought to impose sans
discussion were now going to be the “new” rules of the debate.
In essence, the Caner brothers and
Dr. O’Donnell said to the watching world that they were not going to abide by
any working principle that could even remotely be considered courteous, fair,
scholarly, or Christian. They were
saying to the watching world that they simply refused to behave as scholars or
Christians, and that they were indeed the playground bullies, and like all
bullies when they are confronted openly on fair ground, they look for anyway
they can to weasel their out of the confrontation.
Bullies usually do this first by employing dirty tricks to gain whatever
advantage they can, and if that doesn’t work (if they can’t sucker punch
their opponent), then like all true bullies, they will simply refuse to stand on
fair ground, and tell their opponent that they have to do it their way, hoping
that their opponent will just shake his head in disgust and go away.
The bullies in this case wanted to lure Drs. White and Ascol off of the
field of fairness and into the back alley of the asinine.
The great irony of course is that Drs. White and Ascol could beat these
bullies in any venue, because God’s Word is sharper than any two-edged sword,
and regardless of the context, whether a fair playing field or a darkened
backstreet alley, God’s Word simply cannot be stopped, beaten, or destroyed.
And that is the issue: these
folks (the Caner brothers) are in truth petrified of having to deal in a
meaningful manner with that sharp two-edged sword, and they know that the dirt
of sarcasm and glib clichés that they throw up in the air to divert attention
away from their theological shallowness, ineptitude, and eisegesis will
evaporate under the intense heat and light that the Word of God would cast upon
them.
Maybe this was in fact the thing that was driving the Caner brothers, and if not them, then maybe someone at Liberty. Maybe someone at Liberty University pulled Dr. O’Donnell aside and said, “Listen, Ergun is going to get embarrassed, and if he gets embarrassed in front of his home crowd, things could be mighty tough in the classroom. So, do whatever you can to try and ensure a debate either doesn’t happen, or if it does happen, that it is severely limited in its scope.” I have no idea if that was the case, but given the circumstances, one does wonder.
But here we also have a matter of
principle. Right is right, and
wrong is wrong, and this was and is just flat out wrong. As Dr. White and Dr. Ascol indicated, they had no desire to
engage this issue in a context that was of the back alley sort; a context that
would ultimately be dishonoring to, and undermine everything that defines,
Christian values and sound scholarship. They
weren’t going to let the bullies have their way in their attempt to drag this
into the gutter, and in the process turn it into a circus, with the
self-promoted intellectual pit bull of the Evangelical church howling and barking with no one
there that would truly and fairly moderate his behavior, and with no way for
Drs. White and Ascol to adequately force the pit bull to put down his bones of
distortion and antagonism (aimed primarily for the applause of men) long enough to deal in a
meaningful fashion with the Word of God. It
would be one tired cliché after another with no guarantees of fairness (if
O’Donnell and Liberty University were so willing to deal in such an
unscholarly and unfair fashion prior to the debate, what could Drs. Ascol and
White expect during the debate?), and no real time for much needed
cross-examination.
You see, this was supposed to be a
scholarly debate between Christian gentlemen, and I for one was looking forward
to it, because I believe that the issues involved are critical.
In a very real sense, the very heart and soul of the Gospel was going to
be debated, and maybe, just maybe, those people that were seriously pondering
these extremely important issues would finally hear the clear truth, and not the
misrepresentations. Maybe they too would come to see the excellencies and glories
of a God and Savior that is beyond comprehension because He is truly
sovereign, and as such He is not held hostage and bound by the supposedly
omnipotent and sovereign will of the creature man.
They would see the glories and excellencies of a Savior that infallibly
accomplished all that He set out to accomplish, and who actually,
not potentially or hypothetically, saved a multitude of God hating rebels from
every nation, tribe and tongue, the number of which cannot be counted. They would be confronted, maybe for the first time, with Amazing
Grace, and just why it is such a sweet sound as the Calvinist John Newton
realized when he penned the words to that famous hymn that the Caner brothers no
doubt hold dear to their heart. A
grace that is said to be amazing in light of the total depravity and
helplessness of man to rectify his desperate condition before a holy God in and
of himself; a grace that is so powerful, so utterly awe inspiring, that it and
it alone reaches into the deepest darkest soul of the most vile God-hating fool,
and transforms him into a God-loving follower of Jesus Christ, all without the
aid of human ingenuity, intellect, will or work.
They would come to understand why and how it is that we can say “to God
alone be all of the glory” because they would see that it was God alone that
was the sole sufficient and efficient cause of their salvation.
I mentioned in my last article
that I was concerned that respect for Liberty University as a scholarly
institution would suffer irreparable harm due to the behavior of Ergun Caner and
Brett O’Donnell. I had hoped that
in the aftermath of the agreement to do the debate, that those fears were
alleviated. I guess now that was
all just wishful thinking.
By this display by those in positions of leadership at Liberty
University, it is rather difficult for anyone to take Liberty University
seriously as either a scholarly institution, or even an institution that is
serious about maintaining the highest adherence to Christian values and ethics.
I have received some e-mail’s by people that have expressed dismay at
Liberty University as well, and this one comment really sums it up:
“…Because
of the lack of maturity of the one chosen to be its seminary president, in both form
and substance, I have no respect for the school…Now it's mere arrogance and
ignorance honored at Liberty…”
Click here to read comments from various Liberty University students: http://www.geocities.com/johnandursula/libertystudents
To add to all of this, Dr. Ergun Caner has already begun his
proud (childish and foolish also come to mind) chest pounding, proclaiming from
the rooftops as loudly as he can what can only be described as a complete
distortion of the facts at best, saying that Drs. White and Ascol pulled out of
the debate solely because they refused to submit to the moderators rules.
In the process, “Dr.” Caner again erroneously referred to Dr. White
as a “hyper-Calvinist.” Brother
Ergun, with all due respect, it really does sadden me, but I cannot think of
anything other than to say that your actions and behavior have brought
embarrassment not just to Liberty University, but also to a number of Christians
that have either graduated from Liberty or are current students because you simply refuse to be confused with the facts.
My appeal to you, brother, is to stop, listen, repent, and reengage in a
meaningful fashion. My appeal to
Dr. Falwell is to investigate and examine the clear facts, and then require Dr.
Caner’s and Dr. O’Donnell’s repentance.
If that repentance is not forthcoming, he should reprimand both men, and
seriously consider having them removed from their positions.
Oh, and by the way, the challenge still stands from Dr.
White to Dr. Ergun Caner: Any
time, any place, on neutral ground. As a matter of fact, Dr. White has publicly invited Dr.
Ergun Caner to debate him in Orlando, Florida on November 2d, 2006. Remember,
Dr. Caner, James White is the one that has repeatedly offered to debate you
one-on-one, and you have repeatedly ducked and dodged his challenge.
Dr. White has even offered to interact with you in your own classroom in
front of your students with nothing but the Greek text.
The silence of your response to that has been deafening, as I am sure
will be your response to the challenge by Dr. White to debate him one-on-one in
a true scholarly debate in Orlando, or any other neutral location.
Sad, but sometimes the truth is just that. Calvinists are open, ready, and willing to discuss these issues in a respectable fashion…the other side has repeatedly demonstrated that they are not. The question to the other side is simply “Why not?"
For a full discussion on what's been happening, please see Dr. White's blog at http://www.aomin.org, and Dr. Ascol's blog at http://www.founders.org/blog.
Soli
Deo Gloria,
John Orlando