Refutation of Jason Engwer's "A Response to Passages of Scripture Often Cited in Opposition to Salvation Through Faith Alone and Eternal Security"
Jason's words will be in blue, and my words will be in black
Matthew 7:21-23 - These people were never saved. Jesus says that He never knew them. They couldn't have lost a salvation they didn't have.
By saying that he never knew them, Jesus could�ve been using a hyperbole; he did that a lot (Matthew 5:22, 29-30, 39-41, 19:24). So, what did these people do wrong? They didn�t do God�s will, which means they didn�t do good works. Now, Jason might counter that God�s will is that we believe (John 6:40), and I have no problem with that. God�s will also includes not exploiting people (1 Thessalonians 4:3-6), and it doesn�t take a rocket scientist to realize that God wants us to love each other. Plus, if we look at the context of Matthew 7:21-23, we see that it�s in the Sermon on the Mount, which was a sermon mostly about works! The people in Matthew 7:21-23 were damned because they didn�t do good works!
Matthew 25:31-46 - Jesus doesn't say that these people were saved through works. The works of the sheep reflect a regenerated heart (2 Corinthians 5:17), and are the result of salvation (Ephesians 2:10), but they aren't the means of salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9). The sheep became sheep through faith (Acts 15:9), then behaved as sheep. There are lost people who feed the hungry, visit people in prison, etc. And there are saved people who don't do any of that (Luke 23:39-43, 1 Corinthians 3:15). What Jesus is addressing in Matthew 25 is the general contrast between the lives of the regenerate and the lives of the unregenerate at the time of His second coming. He's not teaching salvation through works.
Sorry, Jason, but you�re committing a common Protestant error; you�re viewing Jesus� words through the lens of sola fide. If you just read Jesus� words and interpret them for what they say and not what you twist them around to mean, you will see that Jesus is clearly linking works with salvation. There�s no doubt that He is saying that good works are a condition for salvation; He says, �inherit the kingdom prepared for you�for I was hungry and you gave me food�� (verses 34-35) and �depart from me into the eternal fire�for I was hungry and you gave me no food�� (verses 41-42). He says that they�re saved BECAUSE they did the good works! Why would Jesus say that they�re saved BECAUSE of something that is only a result of salvation? That�s absurd.
I do agree with much of what you said; we do become a new creation when we�re born again, and we are saved by faith (but also by works). Yes, there are some people who do good works and aren�t saved, but Jesus wasn�t giving a complete explanation of how we are saved. He was only focusing on one aspect of salvation. And yes, faith is the BEGINNING of the lifelong process of salvation, but it continues when we do good works.
Now, about the people who were saved who didn�t do any good works. In Luke 23:39-43, the good thief DID do a good work; he rebuked the bad thief. Now, where in 1 Corinthians 3:15 does it say that the person didn�t do any good works? By saying, "Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw" (verse 12), Paul implies that this person built with all of those things, and only some of his work was burned up (verse 15).
Luke 18:18-25 - Jesus had just taught salvation apart from works (Luke 18:10-14). He doesn't contradict Himself in the conversation that follows with the rich young ruler. To the contrary, the conversation is a further illustration of what Jesus had taught in verses 10-14. The rich young ruler, like the Pharisee mentioned a few verses earlier, expected to be saved through works. He thought he had kept all of God's commandments throughout his life (Luke 18:21), though he obviously hadn't (Romans 3:9-23). As Jesus told him, only God is good (Luke 18:19). Since this man thought he was good enough to attain eternal life through works, however, Jesus revealed the man's imperfection by commanding him to do a work that he then refused to do (Luke 18:22-23). The disciples asked who, then, could be saved (Luke 18:26). If the rich young ruler couldn't be saved, despite claiming to have kept all of God's commandments throughout his life, how could anybody be saved? Jesus explains that what's impossible with men is possible with God (Luke 18:27). He was reaffirming what He had taught in verses 10-14. God justifies the ungodly (Romans 4:5-6). A tax collector who relies only on the mercy of God is saved, while a Pharisee and a rich young ruler who try to attain eternal life through works are lost (Romans 9:30-10:4). Rather than supporting salvation through works, the conversation with the rich young ruler is more evidence of the hopelessness of trying to be saved through works. To be saved through works, a person would have to perfectly fulfill God's laws for all of his life (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10), and nobody does that (Romans 3:9-23, Galatians 3:22, James 3:2). Only Christ perfectly obeyed God throughout His life. Only Christ is good in this sense (Luke 18:19). Only His righteousness, accepted as a free gift through faith, apart from works (Romans 3:21-24, 4:5-6, 5:16-17), can justify.
In Matthew 19:17 (the parallel to the story in Luke), Jesus says, �If you wish to enter into eternal life, keep the commandments,� but Jason asserts that this is referring to a hypothetical scenario in which the rich young man would be able to perfectly obey the law. Jesus then tells the young man to sell all his possessions, which he will not do, so he leaves. According to Jason, Jesus was trying to show how we, as sinners, cannot gain salvation by works. Now, if the young man wanted to know how to be saved, why would Jesus give him the impossible answer (perfect obedience, according to Jason) rather than the possible one (faith, according to Jason)? Jesus could have at least called the man back and told him that there is another way to be saved. But He didn�t. Why? Because Jesus DID tell him the possible way to be saved. He told him to sell all his possessions to show that we cannot be saved if we are too attached to our possessions. This is why He says in Luke 18:24-25: �How hard it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.�
Now, Jesus did NOT teach salvation apart from works in Luke 18:10-14. He wasn�t giving a complete explanation of how we are saved; He was just trying to make one point: not to be self-righteous and spiritually proud. This is shown in verse 14 where He says, �For all who exalt themselves will be humbled, but all who humble themselves will be exalted.�
I agree that to be saved completely by works, we would have to obey the law perfectly, but we don�t. When Scripture says that we are judged by works, it means that God judges our works not by the strict standard of law, but by His grace and mercy (James 2:12). Salvation is a gift because God doesn�t HAVE to save us, but He chooses to anyway.
Romans 2:7 - Those who perfectly fulfill God's laws will live eternally, as Paul explains. However, he goes on in chapter 3 to explain that nobody lives up to that standard. Everybody falls short (Romans 3:9-23). As he writes in Galatians 3:22, all men have been shut up under sin. God's laws are meant to be a tutor to lead us to salvation through faith in Christ (Galatians 3:21-25). Those who try to attain eternal life by following all of God's laws will fail, and they'll be rejecting the perfect righteousness of Christ in favor of their own imperfect righteousness (Jeremiah 23:6, Romans 9:30-10:4, Philippians 3:9). As Paul explains in Romans 2:12, everybody who sins is lost. And nobody is without sin. This is why those who are saved must be saved by grace (Romans 4:4, 4:16) as a free gift (Romans 3:24, 5:16-17, 6:23), not as a reward attained through works. Anybody who is so deceived as to think that he's living up to the standards of Romans 2 should go on to chapter 3 to be undeceived.
Woah, where does Paul say that those who fulfill God�s laws perfectly will be saved? Let�s see what Romans 2:1-16 says:
"Therefore you have no excuse, whoever you are, when you judge others; for in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things. You say, "We know that God's judgment on those who do such things is in accordance with truth." Do you imagine, whoever you are, that when you judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself, you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you despise the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not realize that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath, when God's righteous judgment will be revealed. For he will repay according to each one's deeds: to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; while for those who are self-seeking and who obey not the truth but wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be anguish and distress for everyone who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. All who have sinned apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous in God's sight, but the doers of the law who will be justified. When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all.�
Where does Paul talk about fulfilling God�s laws perfectly? He doesn�t; all he says is that God will repay us according to our works. The major thrust of this passage is that God will reward our good works, whether we are Jew or Gentile. While Paul does say that everyone has sinned, he also says that some Gentiles keep the law (Romans 2:26-27). If you read all the way through the end of chapter 2, you will see that Paul�s whole argument is that the Jews, who have the written law, don�t obey it, but Gentiles, who don�t have the written law, do obey it, and he links obedience with salvation. Paul�s argument would mean nothing if there were no Gentiles who had sufficiently obeyed the law to be saved, so Paul could NOT have been speaking hypothetically. As I said before, the Catholic view of salvation is that God judges our works and our faith by His grace and mercy (which allows for our sins to be forgiven) rather than the strict standards of the law (which doesn�t allow for our sins to be forgiven). Salvation is a gift because God doesn�t HAVE to save us, but He does anyway.
Romans 11:22 - The context is a discussion of Jews and Gentiles in the plan of God. Paul isn't saying that individual Christians can lose their salvation. That would contradict what Paul says repeatedly elsewhere, including in Romans (Romans 5:9, 8:30). Paul is referring to the Gentiles as a group. They could fall out of God's favor, just as the Jews had, as a group.
Yes, Paul does start off by talking about the Gentiles as a whole, but then he says that God will graft in those Jews who �do not persist in unbelief� (Romans 11:23). This implies that little groups of Gentiles or individual Gentiles can be cut off as well.
"Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ�For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. Indeed, rarely will anyone die for a righteous person-though perhaps for a good person someone might actually dare to die. But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us. Much more surely then, now that we have been justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life." - Romans 5:1, 6-10
Here Paul is talking about God�s great love for us. Since people will rarely die for a good person, but God died for us while we were still bad, our chance of being saved is now THAT MUCH GREATER than before.
�And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.� � Romans 8:30
All this says is that God will save the elect, and Catholics agree. However, we have no way of knowing if we are part of the elect.
1 Corinthians 9:24-27 - Paul is discussing rewards and setting an example for others to follow. He's not discussing how to attain eternal life. As he explained earlier in the epistle (1 Corinthians 3:11-15), how a Christian lives his life will determine rewards in Heaven, but not entrance to Heaven. Paul was sure of his own future in Heaven (Romans 5:9, 2 Corinthians 5:1-8, Philippians 1:21-23, 3:20-21, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, 2 Timothy 4:18), and he was also sure that the Corinthian believers would always be saved (1 Corinthians 1:8). Even individual Corinthians who had fallen far short of what Paul describes in 1 Corinthians 9 were referred to as remaining saved anyway (1 Corinthians 3:1-3, 11:17-32). To assume that Paul is referring to attaining eternal life in 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 is speculative, and is contrary to other passages of scripture.
No, Paul IS discussing attaining eternal life. If you read the verse in context, you�ll see that he�s discussing how he preached the Gospel to people so they could be saved (1 Corinthians 9:1-23), then he says
"Do you not know that in a race the runners all compete, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win it. Athletes exercise self-control in all things; they do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable one. So I do not run aimlessly, but I punish my body and enslave it, so that after proclaiming to others I myself should not be disqualified� � 1 Corinthians 9:24-27
From this passage we can learn a few things. First, Paul compared life to a race, with the prize being salvation. He told the Corinthians (people who already believed) to win it, which implies that they could lose. Next, he says that to win, they must exercise self-control, which isn�t something we exercise at one single point in time; it must be continuous. Next, he says that he doesn�t run aimlessly (which implies that he can run aimlessly), but that he punishes his body so he isn�t disqualified. What is disqualification? Eternal damnation.
In 1 Corinthians 3:11-15, Paul doesn�t say that our works determine our rewards into heaven; he doesn�t mention differing levels of rewards. All he says is that some people will be saved only through fire, which has nothing to do with how much of a reward we get in heaven.
Was Paul 100% sure of his salvation? No. As he said in 1 Corinthians 4:4, �I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me.� While he was fairly sure he would go to heave, as 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 and other passages show, he wasn�t 100% sure.
Was Paul sure of the Corinthians� salvation? Let�s see what he says:
�He will also strengthen you to the end, so that you may be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.� � 1 Corinthians 1:8
�Now I would remind you, brothers and sisters, of the good news that I proclaimed to you, which you in turn received, in which you also stand, through which also you are being saved, if you hold firmly to the message that I proclaimed to you � unless you have come to believe in vain.� � 1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Here we see two seemingly contradictory statements from Paul. One seems to assure the Corinthians of their salvation, and the other seems to warn them against falling away. How can they be reconciled? In the first passage, Paul says that God will strengthen them so that they may be blameless on the day of the Lord. While God WILL strengthen us, we must use the strength he gives us, but there is no guarantee that we will. In the second passage, Paul tells the Corinthians that they must �hold firmly to the message� and that they could believe in vain. If the Corinthians believed in vain, then they would not attain salvation, even though they believed, which means that they were not eternally secure.
In 1 Corinthians 3:1-3, Paul says that the Corinthians, �infants in Christ,� were not yet ready to be spoken to as spiritual people. Did Paul mean that they were saved because they were �in Christ�? No. All he meant was that they were still infants in their Christian maturity. In 1 Corinthians 11:32, Paul says (about being judged when receiving the Eucharist unworthily)
�But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.�
While it seems like Paul is telling the Corinthians that they won�t be condemned when they are judged, is that what he�s really saying? Notice that Paul says God disciplines us �SO THAT WE MAY NOT BE CONDEMNED.� It follows logically, then, that we would be able to be condemned by receiving the Eucharist unworthily, but God disciplines us so that we MAY not, not WILL not, be condemned. Even though God disciplines us, there�s no guarantee that we�ll respond. Paul isn�t saying that judgment is merely being disciplined; rather, he�s saying that God disciplines us to try and save us when we are judged.
Galatians 5:19-21 - Paul is addressing the general differences between the unregenerate life and the regenerate life. Not all unbelievers bear all of the fruit of the flesh that Paul mentions, and not all believers bear all of the fruit of the Spirit that Paul mentions. Paul is addressing lifestyles, not individual actions that would cause a Christian to lose salvation. The same is true of similar passages (1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Ephesians 5:5-6). Paul is describing the lifestyle of the unregenerate, and is telling believers not to partake of that fruit of the flesh (1 Corinthians 6:11, Ephesians 5:7). The unregenerate who practice such things as a lifestyle are proving that they're lost. Paul isn't saying that a Christian who sometimes commits some of those sins will lose his salvation. To the contrary, the list in Galatians 5, for example, includes just about every sin that can be committed, if not every sin. If Galatians 5 was teaching that Christians would lose their salvation by committing those sins, then salvation would be lost every time a sin is committed. But Christians can sin, yet still be saved. 1 Corinthians 3:1-3, for example, tells us that the Corinthians were committing some of the sins listed in Galatians 5, yet they were still saved. They were "babes in Christ", but were in Christ nonetheless.
While I agree that Paul didn�t mean that we lose salvation when we commit EVERY single sin he listed, but some of them CAN cause us to lose our justification if we practice those things. Case in point: David.
"Do not cast me away from your presence, and do not take your holy spirit away from me. Restore me to the joy of your salvation, and sustain in me a willing spirit." - Psalm 51:11-12
Here, after David committed adultery with Bathsheba, he pleaded with God to re-justify him. Again, Paul says in Romans 4:6-8:
"So also David speaks of the blessedness of those to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works:
'Blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the one against whom the Lord will not reckon sin. �
Here, he quotes from Psalm 32, the other Psalm David wrote after committing adultery with Bathsheba.
"Happy are those whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Happy are those to whom the LORD imputes no iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit. While I kept silence, my body wasted away through my groaning all day long. For day and night your hand was heavy upon me; my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer. Then I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not hide my iniquity; I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD," and you forgave the guilt of my sin." - Psalm 32:1-5
Here David is speaking of being forgiven by God, and Paul says he is speaking about justification. Again we see that David was re-justified after his adultery.
I already dealt with 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.
Philippians 2:12 - The context is about trials in the Christian life, so Paul may not even be referring to salvation of the soul. Even if he is referring to the attaining of eternal life, Paul tells the Philippians to work out their salvation, not to work for their salvation. Works are the fruit of salvation (Ephesians 2:10), not the means of attaining it (Ephesians 2:8-9). Why does Paul refer to fear and trembling, then? Even for those who are already saved, standing before God is a fearful thing (2 Corinthians 5:10-11). Works aren't a means of salvation, but we are accountable to God for the works we do after salvation (1 Corinthians 3:11-15).
"�work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Do all things without murmuring and arguing, so that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, in which you shine like stars in the world. It is by your holding fast to the word of life that I can boast on the day of Christ that I did not run in vain or labor in vain." � Philippians 2:12-16
Here we can clearly see that Paul is talking about salvation. He tells them that he can only boast if they hold fast to the Gospel. What would he be able to boast about? That he won over souls for Jesus. He tells them to work out their salvation, which is the same as working for their salvation (if I work out a deal it�s the same as working for a deal). Plus, the PROCESS of being justified (and therefore saved) must be worked out because it starts when we first believe. Now, Paul tells them to fear and tremble WHILE ON EARTH; he says nothing about standing before God. As Hebrews 10:26-27, 31 says, �For if we willingly persist in sin after having received the knowledge of truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a FEARFUL PROSPECT OF JUDGEMENT�It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.� We should fear because we can lose our salvation!
Philippians 3:10-12 - Paul is referring to persevering in the Christian life. He just explained that he was relying on the righteousness of Christ given through faith (Philippians 3:9), not a righteousness of his own. He goes on to refer to his and his readers' future in Heaven (Philippians 3:20-21). He commented earlier that he would go to be with Christ when he died (Philippians 1:21-23). It's untenable to argue that, in the midst of all of this, Paul was teaching salvation through works in Philippians 3:10-12. That would be a contradiction of what he had just written about being justified by a righteousness not his own. It would be a contradiction of his repeated references to being sure of his future in Heaven. The resurrection he speaks of attaining in verse 11 probably is a reference to Christ's resurrection power, as mentioned in verse 10. He can't be referring to attaining eternal life through works, since he explains in 1:21-23 and 3:20-21 that he's already sure of his future in Heaven. In other words, Paul seems to be referring in 3:11 to living as victoriously as Christ had lived. It's a continuation of what he referred to in verse 10. The resurrection was the crowning achievement of Christ's life, and Paul hadn't yet attained to that perfection (Philippians 3:12). What Paul was working for was the "upward call of God in Christ Jesus" (Philippians 3:14). Paul is addressing sanctification in Philippians 3:10-12, not justification. He's addressing perseverance in the Christian life, not how to attain salvation.
Yes, Paul is talking about persevering in the Christian life, but then he ties that in with salvation in verses 11-12. In verse 9, all he�s saying is that he doesn�t earn salvation on his own; God saves him. In verses 20-21, he�s saying that the Philippians are citizens of heaven, but that does NOT mean that their salvation is 100% secure. All he means is that as Christians, they belong to heaven, but he in no way implies that they will stay that way. As I said earlier, Paul was fairly sure of his salvation (as all Christians should be), but, as Philippians 3:11-12 (and 1 Corinthians 9:27) shows, he wasn�t 100% sure of his salvation.
Now, what WAS Paul referring to in verses 11-12? Let�s see:
��if somehow I may attain the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained this goal; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.�
He is obviously referring to salvation! He is talking about how he presses on, PERSEVERING IN THE CHRISTIAN LIFE, to attain salvation, but he has not yet obtained it.
Hebrews 6:4-6 - If salvation could be lost, if Christ's sacrifice wasn't enough to atone for all sins, there would be no possibility of being saved a second time (Hebrews 6:6). Some people were considering a return to the animal sacrifices of the old covenant, but if Christ's sacrifice wasn't enough to atone for all sins, no other sacrifice would be enough either. Rather than contradicting eternal security, Hebrews 6:4-6 affirms it. Christ's work is sufficient to atone for all sins. People cannot be repeatedly lost and saved. They're either saved once and forever or they aren't saved at all. In verse 9, not falling away is described as a "thing that accompanies salvation", once again affirming eternal security. "Though we thus speak" in verse 9 is a reference to verses 4-6 having been hypothetical. Nobody actually loses salvation. The point is that if salvation wasn't secure in Christ, it wouldn't be secure anywhere. Looking for salvation in a return to animal sacrifices is hopeless, as is looking for salvation through works.
The keys to understanding this passage are what the author of Hebrews (traditionally identified as Paul) writes before and after it.
�Therefore let us go on towards perfection, leaving behind the basic teaching about Christ, and not laying again the foundation: repentance from dead works and faith towards God, instruction about baptisms, laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And we will do this, if God permits.� � Hebrews 6:1-3
Here we see Paul saying that they will instruct people in the faith IF GOD PERMITS. He then says in verses 4 and 6, �For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, and have tastes the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit�and have then fallen away.� He�s saying that unless God gives us His grace, we cannot come back to the faith if we have fallen away. THAT�S the point of the passage.
In verses 7-8, Paul says that those who have fallen away will be damned, but those who remain faithful will be saved.
�Ground that drinks up the rain falling on it repeatedly, and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is worthless and on the verge of being cursed; its end is to be burned over.� � Hebrews 6:7-8
In verse 9, Paul doesn�t say that it�s hypothetical. He says that he�s confident that his readers will not fall away, which is not even close to assuring them of their salvation! He is confident �For God is not unjust; he will not overlook your work and the love that you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do� (verse 10). He says that God judges us by our works! Then, in verses 11-12, he tells them that they must endure to the end:
�And we want each one of you to show the same diligence, so as to realize the full assurance of hope to the very end, so that you may not become sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.�
Hebrews 10:26-31 - God disciplines His children (1 Corinthians 11:29-32, Hebrews 12:6-7). Despite what some people assume when reading this passage, the people being addressed are not people who lost their salvation, but rather they're God's people (Hebrews 10:30). Hebrews 10:39, like Hebrews 6:9, once again suggests that not falling away is a thing that accompanies salvation. Those who are saved remain saved (1 John 2:19). Those who are justified are also glorified (Romans 8:30). Nobody is justified, then goes to Hell. Hebrews 10:26-31 may be only a hypothetical, like Hebrews 6:4-6, but even if not, verse 30 explains that the passage is about God's people being disciplined, not a lost sinner going to Hell.
So what if they�re God�s people? The Jews were God�s people up until the time of Christ, but not every single Jew that ever lived before Jesus was saved. Hebrews 10:39 says, �We, however, are not of those who draw back unto destruction, but of those who have faith to the saving of the soul� (Douay-Rheims). After warning the Hebrews about falling away (10:26-31) and telling them not to lose faith in the face of persecution (10:32-38), Paul is just saying that they have the kind of faith that can save, but he is NOT assuring them of their salvation. All Hebrews 6:9 says is that Paul is confident his readers will be saved; again, Jason confuses confidence with 100% assurance. Now, Jason brought up 1 John 2:19. Here�s what it says:
�They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But by going out they made it plain that none of them belongs to us.�
Jason is using this verse to try and prove that those who fall away never really were saved, but it says no such thing. John is talking about a specific group of people and saying that since THEY weren�t real Christians, they fell away. He isn�t referring to every single Christian who falls away. Plus, this verse can also be interpreted as meaning that they fell away because they were NO LONGER Christians, as opposed to NEVER being Christians.
Jason also brought up Romans 8:30 again, which, as I said before, just says that the elect will be saved, and I agree.
"For if we willfully persist in sin after having received the knowledge of truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has violated the Law of Moses dies without mercy 'on the testimony of two or three witnesses.' How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know the one who said, 'Vengeance is mine, I will repay.' And again, 'The Lord will judge his people.' It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." � Hebrews 10:26-31
This is the text of the passage. How can Jason say it may be hypothetical? Nowhere in the passage itself or the surrounding context is that suggested. Heck, I can go around saying passages that Protestants use to support sola fide are hypothetical, but there�s no basis for me to do so. JASON HAS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR SAYING THAT THIS PASSAGE IS HYPOTHETICAL! Even though his whole argument doesn�t revolve around it being hypothetical, just his mentioning it shows that he�s desperately grasping for SOMETHING to hold on to which will support sola fide.
Plus, notice how Paul says, �there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.� What can this mean? It means that the merits of the cross WERE applied to these people, and their sins WERE forgiven, but now that they have fallen away, their sins will NOT be forgiven anymore. These people WERE true Christians, but they fell from grace.
James 2:14-26 - As James explains in 2:8-12, people would have to live perfectly, obeying all of God's laws (James 2:10), in order to be saved through works. Instead of trusting in a law of works, we have to trust in a law of liberty (James 2:12). Does James go on to contradict himself later in the chapter? No, he doesn't. He's addressing the evidence of saving faith (James 2:14) and justification before men (James 2:18). Faith without works is dead in the sense that true faith results in works. James can't be saying that faith without works is dead in the sense that people aren't saved until after working. If he was saying that, he would be contradicting what he wrote in 2:8-12, and he would be contradicting Mark 2:5, Luke 7:50, Luke 17:19, Luke 18:10-14, and other passages in which people are saved through faith alone. Abraham was justified before God when he believed (Romans 4:10-11), not when he later did works as a result of his faith (Romans 4:2). However, Abraham was justified before men (James 2:18) not through faith alone, but through works (James 2:21-24). Paul and James aren't addressing the same issue. Paul is saying that we're justified before God through faith alone. James is saying that saving faith is evidenced by works, which justify us in the sense that they prove that our faith is true. James agrees with Paul that people are saved through faith, not works, but James is addressing the contrast between true faith and false faith. That's why he asks in verse 14, "Can that faith save him?" The question assumes that people are saved through faith. James wouldn't be addressing the type of faith that saves if faith didn't save. People are saved through faith while ungodly and not working (Romans 4:5-6), then they produce fruit as new creations (2 Corinthians 5:17). The fruit justifies the believer before men (James 2:18), just as wisdom is justified by her children (Luke 7:35).
�So speak and act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.� � James 2:12
Jason correctly shows that we can�t earn our salvation by our own merit through the law; rather, God judges us by His grace. He then takes an unwarranted step and says that this means we are not judged by our works at all, but nowhere does James say this. James goes on in verse 13 to say that we must show mercy to be saved, which implies that we WILL be judged by our works. The difference between the �regular� law and the law of liberty is that the �regular� law does not allow for our sins to be forgiven, but the law of liberty does. We are, however, still judged by our works.
�Can faith save you?� � James 2:14
This question clearly shows that James was NOT talking about the type of faith that saves. Jason relies on some modern translations that translate it as �Can that faith save him?�, but that�s a bad translation. The Greek literally says, �Is the faith able to save him?"
�But someone will say, �You have faith and I have works.� Show me your faith apart from your works and I by my works will show you my faith.� � James 2:18
Does this verse teach justification before men? Hardly. James is NOT saying that works serve only to show your faith; all he is saying is that faith and works are inseparable. By saying that his works show his faith, he is just reaffirming the connection between the two; he is NOT saying that works serve ONLY to show your faith.
In Mark 2:5, Jesus forgives a paralytic�s sins because of the faith of him and his companions. Does this prove sola fide? No. All the sins he had committed UP UNTIL THAT TIME were forgiven because of his faith, but that in no way assures that all his later sins will be also. Justification is a lifelong journey (Philippians 2:12), and faith is the beginning.
In Luke 7:50, Jesus is at Simon the Pharisee�s house, and a sinful woman comes in and washes Jesus� feet. Then, in the verse in question, He says that her faith saved her. However, in verse 47, He says, �Wherefore I say to thee, her sins, many as they are, shall be forgiven her, because she has loved much� (Douay Rheims). Here we see the connection between faith and works: Jesus says that her sins were forgiven because of her faith AND her works.
In Luke 17:19, a leper is saved because of his faith. Again, faith is the beginning of the lifelong journey of justification.
In Luke 18:10-14, Jesus tells the story of a Pharisee and a tax collector who go to the temple to pray. The Pharisee was self-righteous and thought he was better than the tax collector, but the tax collector just asked for forgiveness. Jesus said that it was the tax collector who was justified, and Jason interprets this as sola fide. However, he�s missing the main point of the parable. Jesus wasn�t giving an extensive explanation of salvation; He was just trying to make one main point. All Jesus was saying is that we must be humble to be saved; He was NOT saying that faith alone saves.
Now, let�s assume that James WAS talking about justification before men. Let�s examine the sentence, �You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.� This presents a few problems for Jason�s interpretation. First of all, James uses the same Greek word for �justified� that Paul uses in Romans, implying that he�s talking about the same thing. Secondly, James seems to put faith and works on the same level, not differentiating between justification before men and before God. Jason would have James using the word �justified� once in a sentence but meaning two different things, which is absurd. He says that we�re justified by both faith and works, implying that they justify us in the same way. Now, if James is referring to justification before men, then by saying �not by faith ALONE,� he would imply that some people thought we are justified before men by faith alone, which is also absurd.
Lastly, let�s take a look at the two examples of justification James used: Abraham and Rahab.
�Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was brought to completion by the works. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, 'Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,' and he was called the friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.� � James 2:21-24
Here we must examine two things: why Abraham was justified when he offered up Isaac and why James says that this fulfilled Genesis 15:6.
�By myself I have sworn, says the Lord: Because you have done this, and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will indeed bless you, and I will make your offspring as numerous as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of their enemies, and by your offspring shall all the nations of the earth gain blessing for themselves, because you have obeyed my voice.� � Genesis 22:16-18
Here we see that Abraham�s offering was CLEARLY for God to see, not for men to see! Abraham was justified BEFORE GOD! This is the second time that Scripture explicitly says that Abraham was justified, supporting the Catholic belief that justification is a lifelong process.
"After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, 'Do not be afraid, Abram, I am your shield; your reward shall be very great.' But Abram said, 'O Lord God, what will you give me, for I continue childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?' And Abram said, 'You have given me no offspring, and so a slave born in my house is to be my heir.' But the word of the Lord came to him, 'This man shall not be your heir; no one but your very own issue shall be your heir.' He brought him outside and said, 'Look toward heaven and count the stars, if you are able to count them.' Then he said to him, 'So shall your descendants be.' And he believed the Lord; and the Lord reckoned it to him as righteousness." � Genesis 15:1-6
Here we see that God promised multitudes of offspring to Abraham, but He finally SWORE to it only after Abraham offered up Isaac. The justification here was fulfilled because Abraham obeyed God in Genesis 22. This justification would have been void had Abraham not offered up Isaac because it continued into Genesis 22.
�Likewise, was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another road? For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead.� � James 2:25-26
By saying �LIKEWISE, was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works�� James is implying that she was justified the same way Abraham was, which was before God. So, let�s examine how Rahab was justified.
"And said to the men: 'I know that the LORD has given you the land, and that dread of you has fallen on us, and that all the inhabitants of the land melt in fear before you. For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites that were beyond the Jordan, to Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed. As soon as we heard it, our hearts melted, and there was no courage left in any of us because of you. The LORD your God is indeed God in heaven above and on earth below." � Joshua 2:9-11
Here we can clearly see, from Rahab�s words, why she was not justified by faith alone. She clearly says that everyone in Jericho had the same faith she had, yet only she and her family were saved. If they all had faith and were all justified, why would God not spare the city? Only after she did a good work was she considered justified.
2 Peter 2:20 - In 2 Peter 1:3, Peter refers to true knowledge of Christ. The knowledge of the false teachers in 2 Peter 2:20 apparently isn't a saving knowledge. These people were dogs and pigs all along, and they proved it by returning to the vomit and mire (2 Peter 2:22). They were headed for Hell all along (2 Peter 2:3, 2:9).
"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment that was passed on to them." � 2 Peter 2:20-21
Peter clearly says that it would be better for people to have never known Jesus than to have known Him but then fall away. Peter clearly says that these people had true knowledge of Jesus but then fell into apostasy, so I have no idea why Jason brought up 2 Peter 1:3.
�It has happened to them according to the true proverb, �The dog turns back to its own vomit,� and, �The sow is washed only to wallow in the mud.�" � 2 Peter 2:22
�Like a dog that returns to its vomit is a fool who reverts to his folly.� � Proverbs 26:11
The first proverb Peter quotes is from Proverbs 26:11, and the second one is of unknown origin. It doesn�t say that fools WILL ALWAYS return to their folly; rather, it says that SOME fools will return to their folly. The second proverb also supports the Catholic position. While the sow goes back to wallow in the mud, it WAS washed. These people DID believe, but they fell into apostasy.
�But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive opinions. They will even deny the Master who bought them�bringing swift destruction on themselves. And in their greed they will exploit you with deceptive words. Their condemnation, pronounced against them long ago, has not been idle, and their destruction is not asleep.� � 2 Peter 2:1, 3
Here we see that 2 Peter 2:3 is referring to the false teachers, not those who follow them in 2 Peter 2:20-21.
�And if he rescued Lot, a righteous man greatly distressed by the licentiousness of the lawless�then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trial, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment� � 2 Peter 2:7, 9
Here we see that Peter is talking about rescuing the godly from persecution, just as God rescued Lot, rather than rescuing them from eternal damnation.
1 John 5:16-17 - Since John recommends praying for the life of those who commit a sin not leading to death, he must be referring to physical life and death, not spiritual life and death. Otherwise, why pray for the life of a person whose sin doesn't lead to death? Apparently, John is referring to people who are ill. If they're dying as a result of a sin, then don't pray for them. God sometimes disciplines Christians with death (Acts 5:1-10, 1 Corinthians 11:29-32). If their illness is not a result of their sin, however, then pray for them to recover.
Why pray for the life of someone who doesn�t commit a mortal sin? The same reason we Catholics pray �May almighty God have mercy on us, forgive us our sins, and bring us to everlasting life� at mass. We ask God to protect us from falling away and for forgiveness of sins. When someone commits a mortal sin, however, God CANNOT give them eternal life (unless, of course, they repent), so we can�t pray for them. John is NOT talking about Christians who are ill; nowhere in the whole epistle does John talk about being punished with physical death. He does, however, place great emphasis on staying in God�s grace by loving our neighbor.
Revelation 20:13 - This is the judgment of the unregenerate. While Christians are not under any law of works (Romans 6:14, Galatians 3:21-25, James 2:12), unbelievers are judged according to the laws of God. They're all condemned, and are sent to Hell (Revelation 20:14). John goes on to repeatedly refer to eternal life as a free gift, not something that's worked for (Revelation 21:6, 22:17). Revelation 20:13 is about the condemnation of the unregenerate, who didn't accept eternal life in Christ as a free gift. They're judged by a law of works, while Christians are under grace (Romans 6:14) and are judged by a law of liberty (James 2:12).
Romans 6:14, Galatians 3:21-25, and James 2:12 all say that we�re not judged by the law, but this does NOT mean that we�re not judged by our works. All it means is that we�re not judged by the strict standards of the law, but it doesn�t mean that our works aren�t judged by less strict standards (specifically grace).
�And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, as recorded in the books. And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and all were judged according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; and anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.� � Revelation 20:12-15
Here we see that at the end of time, all the dead will be judged by their works. In verse 14, Death and Hades, not any people, are thrown into the lake of fire; plus, they were thrown in AFTER they had given up their dead. Again, I agree that salvation is a gift because God doesn�t HAVE to save us, but He chooses to anyway.
