But anyhow, lets examine these two palms:

Gwok Jing's version of 18 subduing palms: Obviously, it only has 18 palms. There is not alot of techniques in this style, but nonetheless, every palm you throw is hard and strong to the extreme. Gwok Jing, with the help of 9 Yum Jun Ging, not only did it raise his inner power, but from this book, he also raised the 18 subduing palm to another level. That is, with every palm he throws, behind every power of his palms, it gradually increases its power to 13 'Doe'. Does this even make sense? I don't know if it makes sense the way I put it. Jing Yong explained that when Gwok Jing fought with Au Yeung Fung at the begining. Furthermore, thanks to 9 Yum Jun Ging, he was able to make this 'Hard' type of kung fu to become this 'soft' 18 subduing palm. That is, he didn't have to lose alot of energy with each palm he throws. He demonstarted this at Mongolia during Kublai's ambush. Result? Still as devestastating as ever. Gwok Jing's customized 18 subduing palm can is definitely no joke!

Yeung Gor's Sad Palm: Don't think that this palm is any less interesting than Gwok Jing's version of 18 subduing palm. Even though it only has 17 palms, with each palms it has alot of different moves within it. For example, his 'Do Hung Yik Si', can change into 37 different moves.

Also, his palms comes from every different style he learned from various greats. For example: His 'Min Mo Yan Sik' came from 9 Yum Jun Ging's Sip Sum Dai Fut. His 'Do Hung Yik Si' came from his adopted father Au Yeung Fung. Furthermore, some of his kung fus are weird when you look at them. Take the above two palms for example: Min Mo Yan Sik, he changes his face expressions, exhibiting every different kind of emotions to confuse the attacker. His 'Do Hung Yik Si' he does a hand stand. His 'Sum Ging Yuk Tiu' can use his stomach to hurt the attacker. With 'Mo Jung Sung Yau' he can use EVERY body part to attack all at the same time!! After a little test with Wong Yeuk Si, he mentioned that, interms of brute power only Gwok Jing's 18 subduing palm can challenge. However, despite all those great thing in the Sad Palm, it does have ONE fatal flaw. That is, it is only powerful according to YOUR emotions. If Yeung Gor wakes up one day happy, his sad palm will lose its power.

SO which is more powerful? Judge it yourself. However, I do prefer the 18 subduing palm over Yeung Gor's Sad Palm.

It'd almost be unfair.

If these two ever fought, the advantage will definetly go to Gwok Jing.

Yeung Gor most likely adapted for his handicap and was able to create a technique that could exert as much power with only one arm as Gwok Jing could with two arms. So a fight between the two might not be as unfair as it seems.

What patterns were there? Can you provide some examples? Most of Jin Yong stories seem to display the point of "It isn�t how many weapons one has but how one uses the weapon". Two arms doesn�t necessarily mean twice as much power. In fact some fighters can exert a great deal of their inner strength without even moving any appendages (case in point the Janitor Monk).

Given how many Jin Yong characters were able to adapt for their handicaps and still become great fighters (ie Deun Yin Hing, Tse Sun, Lum Ping Chi). It would be very strange indeed if a martial arts talent such as Yeung Gor were not able to create a style of fighting that couldn�t use his inner strength in an efficient manner.

YG either has better defensive techniques or moves faster than most other fighters otherwise he would have been cream paste when he fought with either of the fighters I mentioned above.

As for exertion of inner force it still depends on the technique of the fighter, despite having one arm or two.

Despite having only one arm, Yeung Gor may still be able to yield as much force as Gwok Jing's two arms. Here is a repost of my reasons.

Most of Jin Yong stories seem to display the point of "It isn�t how many weapons one has but how one uses the weapon". Two arms doesn�t necessarily mean twice as much power. In fact some fighters can exert a great deal of their inner strength without even moving any appendages (case in point the Janitor Monk).

Given how many Jin Yong characters were able to adapt for their handicaps and still become great fighters (ie Deun Yin Hing, Tse Sun, Lum Ping Chi). It would be very strange indeed if a martial arts talent such as Yeung Gor were not able to create a style of fighting that couldn�t use his inner strength in an efficient manner.

Anyways, back to the original topic, my guess is that Sad Palms is better pound for pound. However, it is only designed for one arm, what if a 2 armed person uses it? What does he do with the other arm? Can a 2 armed person learn it? If YG had both arms would he have invented something as powerful as Sad Palms (more maybe better?)? Who knows! But this is what I'm saying, Sad Palms could very well be more powerful, but whether or not it is wouldn't make a difference in a fight against GJ's 18 Dragon Subduing Palms.

Are you implying that 2 arms equal twice as much power? (Sorry if I misunderstood what you were trying to say). That is not necessarily true. The power which is exerted from the blow depends on the technical aspects of the moves. Perhaps 18 Dragon Palms requires 2 arms to have its full effect whereas Sad Palms only requires one arm.

Merely curious, why wouldn't it make a difference in the outcome of a battle if Sad Palms was just as powerful as the 18 Dragon Palms?

Anyhow let's not taking this too seriously. I'm just trying to get a friendly argument going.

Sure it's not how many swords you have but how you use it, but no matter how you cut it, YG is still one "sword" down, and when doing a palm to palm against GJ, he can only take on one palm while the other comes in free. There is an example of this in LoCH, when ZBT refuses to use both his arms against HYS because he accidentally learned 9 Ying Zhen Jing. HYS merely threw both palms at him at which time ZBT met one palm and let the other come in free and was hit hard. (This fight is very much GJ vs. YG because it is the "Greats" going at it). The same thing would happen to YG against GJ (especially Shuang Long Chu Hai).

Another thing I'm saying that because of LR technique, GJ has a innate advantage against any fighter in the world (other than XLN and ZBT obviously). However, this advantage is magnified against YG and YG has to make it up not only in intelligence but also in power of Sad Palms. But I do not think Sad Palm (even if it has more power) can make it up. Against ZBT, when ZBT was using the LR technique, YG could barely defend and was losing until ZBT decided to just fight with one arm (I'm not quite sure what happened exactly). Now GJ has the same technique except his moves are alot more powerful. I think YG would have an even harder time handling GJ.

If he thought this, then there must be still a way he can contest inner strneght by exchanging palms with only 1 arms... even if cbt brought out both hands, you think there is a hugh oversight in his technique that he doesn't have some way to counter this and force an exchange of 1 palm or something? I mean he must of thought of this scenario when he was coming up with his sad palms.

I think YG was not losing to ZBT, but all he could really do was defend, he found it very difficult to find a opening to attack, and I believe had Gu Xiang not stopped the fight to tell ZBT to use one arm, YG would have lost eventually (in about 500 moves is my guess).

Still YG defeated Gum Lun Fat Wong, so a melee between GJ and YG (with GJ given the favorable edge) would still have an uncertain outcome.

He could generate a tremendous amount of force with it, as can be seen when he turned Gwok Fu's sword into a piece of scrap with it.

Also, in the battle against GLFW at the Tsuen Jan headquarters, he had originally intended to swat the monk with it whilst the other arm was engaged in a contest of inner power, which shows that he could use sleeve and arm simultaneously.