November 26, 2006
Neil Hamburger was kind enough to speak with me via telephone on November 26, 2006, as he prepared to take to the road with Tenacious D on a high-profile concert tour of America and Europe. I confess to being both a poor and nervous interviewer, so THANKS to Mr. Hamburger for being so talkative on this big night. Excerpts from this interview were used in an article for Papermag.com, which can be read here.
N: Is Jim there?
J: Yes, this is Jim. Is this Neil?
N: Yes, yes.
J: Hi Neil.
N: Expecting my call, I take it.
J: Yes, certainly. I certainly was.
N: Good, good.
J: So do you have a few minutes to talk about your upcoming tour?
N: Why yes I do. Now, this is for the New York Times?
J: The next best thing. It�s for Papermag. I�ve been told that it�s read by gay teenagers in the Midwest� that�s what I was told.
N: Oh, OK. Well, that�s my demographic for the most part, so that sounds good. Well, let�s roll the tape and really make something special here, huh?
J: Sounds good� So this is the eve of the kickoff of your big tour. I believe your first� well, you had one show, in Vegas, so far?
N: We did one show, yes. And you know what? It went pretty well, I have to say. You know, some of the pig people that you have in Vegas, some of these� you know, these types of tourists and the compulsive gamblers and that whole scene. You expect to have a lot of them there, and they all have that lemon type of face, like they�ve been sucking on a lemon, just very sour and unpleasant people with a lot of emotional problems. A lot of them have gambling problems and that type of thing. So you don�t expect much of them, but in fact these people turned out to be quite good! We had laughter, and a few tears were shed, and I was NOT booed off stage� so, you know, this is a good sign, I think, for the future.
J: Yeah, I was going to ask you about that, how you would characterize your own audience as compared to Tenacious D�s. Were you worried that there would be some trouble? Because I know that it can be tough being the opening act on these tours.
N: Well, it�s tough, because they didn�t pay to see you, they�ve got it in their minds what they want to see, and the sad truth is that even if somebody as great as Kenny Rogers were to come out on the stage to warm the show up, he�d probably get booed off, you know what I�m saying?
J: Right.
N: They just don�t want to see it. They want to see what they want to see, so you have to really pull into your bag of tricks and just do the best that you possibly can do. And sometimes it works, sometimes it really doesn�t.
J: I�ve heard some recordings of telephone calls that you made to hostile booking agents early in your career. Does that serve as helpful training when you need to deal with hecklers and people shouting at you?
N: That was a long time ago. Yeah, you know, you live and learn. You grow. You spread your wings and fly� well, not literally. Hopefully, as you get older, you get a thicker skin. I know mine has gotten very thick to the point where, really, anything short of somebody pulling a trash compactor up to the side of the stage and dumping twenty tons of garbage on me during the set, anything short of that is not going to phase me too much, you know? When you�re dealing with the sort of depression that I�m dealing with on a daily basis, having a couple of these assholes in the audience who don�t want to relax for a few moments and enjoy the show, that�s not really enough to spin me out, you know what I�m saying?
J: Speaking of assholes, I saw that many of the shows on this tour look to be all-ages. Are you toning the act down at all for these gigs?
N: Well, no, because these kids have sewer mouths like you couldn�t believe. They should be toning it down for ME. Honestly, I couldn�t outdo what these kids have in their mouths. These are real filth-mouths, you know? You see these sweet kids and you go, �Oh, look at the little twelve year-old. How great this is going to be to play for these young people.� And then they start opening their mouths and they start throwing up and you realize they�ve got syringes, they�re shooting themselves up. These people are a mess. So no, I�m not changing for them. If I see some old folks there, I might change for them, because some of them don�t want to hear it, you know?
J: Right, right. So given your experience with the one show so far with Tenacious D, and I know you�ve performed at some large festivals in the past, do you prefer these big venues to the smaller clubs and the pizza parlors and the laundromats?
N: Well sometimes, at these types of venues, in your backstage area you�ve got a chair to sit in, you get some water. We had some bottled water at the show in Las Vegas, you know?
J: Wow.
N: That makes it a lot better, I have to say. And you have your own area where these people can�t barge in after the show and try to pick a fight with you, or demand a refund, or some of the other problems that we�ve had in recent years. So just for the privacy alone it�s worth it, you know what I�m saying?
J: Right. Now, how does it feel to be coming to Madison Square Garden, which is where so many of the subjects of your comedy� like I know Paul McCartney was just there, I saw Red Hot Chili Peppers on the marquee a few months ago� all those kinds of people have performed there. So how does it feel for you to be taking that stage?
N: Well I hope they didn�t stink the place up, that�s all I can say. You know, you�ve had some actually good people play there too. Your Frank Sinatras, and that type of a thing. And Elvis Presley, and the Pope. These are some of the real acts that have played there. The real tragedy is that these �Red Hot Chili Pepper� and that type of act was ever, ever allowed on that stage.
J: So you�re ready to bring back some of that kind of Pope-like or Elvis-like or Sinatra-like entertainment to New York?
N: Well, at least like the Pope, and Sinatra, and Elvis I try to put on a good show. Now, some of these people, the Red Hot Chili Peppers and that type, they�re happy to just come out onstage and shit onto a plate or whatever, and they think that that�s good enough for the audience. Whereas I�ve spent years on my craft and I think that I could probably entertain these people if they would just give me a chance.
J: I don�t know if you�ve heard this one � getting back to New York for a second � I don�t know if Boni from your message board and website had passed this along to you, but you do have quite a few fans here in the media. The Village Voice voted your album as the 714th best album of 2005, which I think was the top placing by a comedy record in their entire poll.
N: Huh. Really. Well that�s� You know, I didn�t get invited to the ceremony to pick up a certificate on that, but if you say so, that is a feather in the cap. No, I had not heard that. But hopefully this is something that there will be an award ceremony for, because the inside of my car, some of the paneling is peeling off and that type of thing, so I would love to just cover the whole sides of the doors and all that with awards. I think it would make for a much nicer looking car to be in.
J: Have you collected many awards and certificates over your career?
N: Just tickets. Parking tickets and that type of thing. But this sounds like the real deal, so if you do have any more information on that awards ceremony, please let my management know so we can get something going with that.
J: Well I did see that you recently attended the red-carpet premier for the �Pick of Destiny� movie, I saw some photos from that event. What was that like for you?
N: Well, it was odd. Because I get out of the limousine, which was provided to me by Jack Black of all people, who had a limo himself for the premier, but then those guys decided they wanted to show up in a Cutlass Supreme. So they said, �Yeah, take our limo and have fun with it.� So we went around the block with it a couple of times, drank some of the booze and all that. Then they get to the red carpet and you get out, and all the paparazzi are so eager to see you, but then they looked at me and they said, �WHO ARE YOU? WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?� and they didn�t take pictures. But then, finally, one guy took a picture and then they all copycatted him. They figured, �Well, if he�s taking a picture, then this guy must be a celebrity.� So then all the lights were flashing just like you see on TV and that type of thing, and that was quite exciting. But, you know, it�s a red carpet, and fortunately I had my shoes cleaned, because you don�t want to get something like that all covered in soot, as I have gotten some of these carpets in some of these motels I�ve stayed in� I�ve made them quite sooty, and as a result had my credit card charged, which is not a positive thing.
J: So you didn�t get a chance to hobnob with any of the Entertainment Tonight folks, or anyone from E! TV, any of that type of thing?
N: Not them specifically. I did bump into Ronnie James Dio, he was there, the great musical, big-band� I think he was one of the big-band guys. There were some great people there. The guy from, uh, what�s his name� he made the record that everyone threw in the trash� oh, yeah, Dave Grohl. He was there. Remember him?
J: Yeah, I think so.
N: We saw him there. So it was a night to remember, and of course, at these premiers, something that people don�t realize � but I can tell you now if you want the inside track on this � is that when you get into the movie theater, at the concession stand everything is free. How about that?
J: That�s a pretty good deal. I hadn�t realized that that was the case.
N: Yeah.
J: How did you connect with those folks, the Tenacious D folks? Was this something that you auditioned for, or was it a role that was written specially for you?
N: No, these guys had come to my shows and things, that type of a deal. So I had known them. They�d come to the shows and applaud, and that was always nice. But they just asked me �Would you like to do this film?� and of course I said yes. Why wouldn�t I? And so they wrote a small part for me into the film. And it is small, but, you know, it�s a cameo.
J: Are television and film areas that you�d like to do more work in, as opposed to being out on the road?
N: Anything! If you have a car that needs washing or something, pull it up outside of the Madison Square Garden, and perhaps afterwards I can wash some cars. I know that can pay pretty well. Because the sad truth is, is as prestigious a show as this is, it�s very unlikely that I�ll see any of the money for it, because unfortunately my pay is being garnished. So I have to rely on these sort of outside jobs in order to collect.
J: And that�s because of your divorce?
N: The divorce, and there was a suit filed by my management company which wasn�t a fair suit, but most of them aren�t. So as a result, we are looking for extra income. And what better than to see a guy perform on, really, the most prestigious stage of them all and then immediately afterwards have him wash your car. That�s something else.
J: I actually made a little list off the top of my head a few minutes ago of stand-up comedians who made the leap into movies with vehicles that they centered around themselves� Carrot Top did �Chairman of the Board�; that Dane Cook fellow just put one out that bombed; there was the series of Pauly Shore movies in the early �90s; Andy Kaufmann did �Heartbeeps�; and there was a movie called �The Adventures of Ford Fairlane� with Andrew Dice Clay�
N: Oh, that was a funny one.
J: So does your predecessors� track record concern you or encourage you at all?
N: Well, I might not hire the same writers that Carrot Top had for his movie, I have to say. That�s probably not a wise idea; I�ll probably go with a different crew for that. But yeah, the problem is that those movies were all disasters, as you stated, and that�s fair and that�s true. But what you�re neglecting to state is that all of those people made pretty good money for appearing in those movies, and there was quite a bit of money generated. At this point, I�m living in below-poverty conditions, and if we could get some sort of income here it would make me feel a lot better about myself, which in turn might lead to a better show, a more positive show. Because I�m afraid I�ve fell into saying some bad things about my life and about some of the people in the audience and all that, because I�ve just been feeling worn out lately, Jim. I don�t think this will be a surprise to you if you�ve followed my career, but things have not gone so well.
J: Well I�ve noticed that lately you�ve been doing work with Tom Green, you�ve had your Jimmy Kimmel appearances as well, so it seemed to me that things were going well. It seemed you were becoming less, say, a Modesto comedian and more an LA comedian.
N: Well in a sense things are going well, but there�s still not any money being generated for me, and that�s the tragedy of it. If there is money being generated, it�s not going to me, you see. So what happens is you walk off the stage to the applause, and the spotlights, and the women throwing flowers and things, and you go straight out the back door and climb into the cardboard box that you�re going to sleep in because you can�t afford a hotel. Because I�m on a five-dollar a day salary, and that�s it. That�s it.
J: And you don�t see anything from your albums or DVDs either?
N: No, because of those lawsuits all that pay is garnished.
J: Right.
N: And this is ridiculous. Because you don�t have people who entertain like I do, who work as hard as I do and receive as little as I do. That is just outrageous. We�ve got to do something to turn it around, but I�m not sure what.
J: With all your work and visibility right now, and your unique stylings, have you seen any imitators? Do you worry about that? Are you worried about the K-Tels and the Pickwicks of the world getting a slice of your pie?
N: Yeah, I would like to get signed to Pickwick. That was a good label.
J: Well, you know, I actually just learned the founder is still alive. He�s in his late 80s or early 90s, and he�s still up there in Minnesota.
N: Well if you could set me up with that guy, maybe we could get something going. Because they had all my favorite acts, and that label was prestige. They sold that not just in record stores, but you could find that in drug stores and all kinds of stores. That�s the kind of distribution that I would like to get.
J: Are you moving away from doing albums? You�ve done three DVDs in the last three years � or two and a half DVDs if you don�t count the �Malaysia� one as a full release. I was thinking, actually, that in the last ten years of your career you�ve kind of followed the same arc as the recording industry had over the last, say, 50 years in that you�ve gone from doing predominantly vinyl releases, then you�ve gone to predominantly CDs, and now you�re onto DVD. Is that where you see things moving in the comedy world, away from CDs and towards DVDs?
N: Well, I hate to say it, but the problem is that these kids, they�re very smart, and what they do is they copy the albums on the computer and then what happens is you can�t sell it, nobody will buy it. And then people say, �Neil, why don�t you have a new album out?� You know, the fans come up to me and they say, �Neil, when are you going to put out a new album?� And I say, �Well, do you have the last one?� And they say, �No, no I don�t.� Well then why should I bother putting out another one if you don�t even want the ones I have? It�s like they seem to just want you to put them out as some sort of test, just to see if you can do it! But they don�t want to hear these albums, they don�t want to buy them. The DVDs, now that�s a whole other story, because these people, a lot of them are morbidly obese, or sickly, have emotional problems, don�t leave the house, and the DVD is perfect for them. You just stick it in there and have a look at it. It seems to be the preferred format, whereas the CD, I liked it, I had a great time, but I seem to be in the minority here.
J: Yeah, even Weird Al, he went five or six years between his last two albums. Are you encouraged by the success, though, of his new comedy song?
N: I�m a bit surprised by it. We�ve had some comedy songs ourselves during the last few years when Weird Al was so ill. And these comedy songs haven�t done anything. Nothing. And for him to come back and just immediately go straight to the top of those charts again, it does make you wonder what kind of justice there is. Because we put a lot of sweat and blood and love into these comedy CDs ourselves, you know?
J: Right.
N: We had a song called �The Zipper Lips.� We put everything we had into that song. Everything.
J: You even filmed a video for one of those, didn�t you?
N: We did a video, and we had a line of fruit cocktails that we were trying to get off the ground, Neil Hamburger brand fruit cocktails. Because we found a loophole in my contract. These assholes that take all of the money that I have earned � and I am getting older and sicker by the day � and these people are taking every penny I have ever made, and they don�t need it. I need it, believe me. And we found a loophole in the contract that said that the lawyers got all the money for these goddamned albums, and these DVDs and the whole thing, but it didn�t say anything about canned food. It didn�t say ANYTHING about canned food. And so we realized that by having canned food available as a souvenir at my shows that I could actually pick up some real income. You know what I�m saying? Money that I could keep myself. Now, if you�re fan � and I don�t even know that you are � the last thing you want to see is me hanging myself and that type of thing. This fruit cocktail sort of made it so that didn�t have to happen. It gave me a whole new lease on life. We were selling these cans for one or two dollars a can, getting them manufactured for, you know, 35 cents a can� you can see how the money would add up.
J: And are you still selling the fruit cocktails on this tour?
N: Well, the problem was, as with anything, that it deteriorates into lawsuits. What happened was somebody found an apricot seed in there, in the can, and now they�ve gotta get their payday on the apricot seed. They�re not even making the case that it broke their tooth, they�re just traumatized by even finding an apricot seed. So I don�t think that case is going anywhere. But in the meantime, we can�t sell the fruit cocktails. I mean, what is so traumatic about seeing an apricot seed? Can you tell me that?
J: I don�t think it would be traumatic at all, but, you know, some people out there�
N: These guys� it reminded him of his grandmother or something. It�s some strange scenario, but the courts are filled with these types of scenarios, as I�m sure you know.
J: Yeah. You�ve even made some jokes about that, I believe, on previous albums.
N: Yeah, we joke about everything, you know? You have to, because it�s the only way to keep from just flat-out dropping dead.
J: Were you able to collect any money on this new Primus compilation that borrows its name from one of your signature lines?
N: No, I was not able to collect anything on that. They did get in touch with me, and they said, �Neil, why don�t you open some shows for us?� And that sounded great, but the problem was that I�m already doing shows with this other group, and there�s only one of me. So I couldn�t do it. And that�s too bad, because you spend so much time in these rotten pizza parlors, and these filthy nightclubs � you know, the ones with all the stickers all over the wall? � and then you get two offers to tour at once, and that�s really something.
J: It�s a shame that you can�t do a sort of regional Neil Hamburger the way they do with the Blues Brothers, these regional franchises.
N: But why would I ever want to do that? Because, honestly, I wouldn�t get any of the money anyway.
J: True.
N: And I�m not convinced� We�ve got a guy in Portland who�s trying to put together an impersonation show, you know, and he�s going to end up making more money out of it than I am, because he doesn�t owe anybody anything. He can do his Neil Hamburger �Legends in Concert� simulation show and he can get, even if he charges ten cents to get in � and I think that�s what he wants to charge � even if he charges that and he keeps even five cents of that, well, the fact is, he�ll make more than I make. So you see what we�re up against here?
J: Yeah, it�s pushing the boulder up the hill, it sounds like.
N: I hate to sound like an accountant, but this is a tough business to be in, it really is.
J: And it�s been like that from the get-go? As soon as you got into comedy, you had to start worrying about that business side of things?
N: Definitely. We have not had a break.
J: Do you think it�s hurt your performances, and your albums, and your DVDs at all?
N: You tell me. Are the albums horrible?
J: Well I was just listening to all of them last night, back to back. They�re pretty good; they�ve held up over the years.
N: But they could be better. I mean, let�s face it. They could be better.
J: (silence) Oh! Actually, I wanted to ask you quickly about your Poolside Chats show.
N: All right.
J: How did you hook up with Tom Green? He seems like an odd person for you to be out there with.
N: Well, he got in touch with me and he said, �Neil, we�ve got a new network here that we�re putting together, and we want to know if you�d like to do a show.� And I said, �You bet I would; I�ve got something to say. Let�s give it a try.� So that was what happened. He had come to some of my shows, and I had met him then, you know. So we started doing this little show, and it really took off, it really took off. In a way.
J: I understand it�s the second-biggest show on internet television?
N: It�s the second out of three. There are three shows now, and this is the second of the three. So that�s a feather in your cap right there.
J: Yeah, there�s only one show ahead of you.
N: That�s right. So if you get enough of these feathers in your cap, the next thing you know you start feeling good again, and you get a new� you get sort of a� what do they call it? A jig-step, or a sprint in your jig or something? That is what you want. That is honestly what we all aspire to in life.
J: My last question was, between your TV show, your movie, your tour, the DVD, the Primus tribute � if that�s what you want to call it � your name just seems to be all over the place these days. So I was wondering if you had finally found a suitable replacement for Art Huckman. Do you have some new management that�s pulling all these strings?
N: Well, I�ll tell you what. We�ve had a great run recently, that is the truth. And I cannot complain about the things that have been happening recently. If you�ve followed my career, you know that it has not been easy. It has been very difficult. And to find that suddenly there�s a crowd � and most of them seem to be these degenerates that are into the music, that whole thing � but to have this sort of thing, this is really something. The one problem, of course, is that I don�t get to keep any of the money. That�s the one drawback. But maybe that will change at some point. But I�ll tell you, the management company that I�m dealing with, I will not give them credit for this at all. This company that I signed a contract with in fact is a computer. It�s a computerized management system owned by some other corporation somewhere � I think they�re Taiwanese, in fact � and this computer program is who I deal with. They have a number that you can call in with, and you get, you know, these voicemail-type systems where you speak and it understands what you�re saying and it talks back to you, and you�ve got to send the money in to this P.O. box, the whole thing. You never actually talk to a human being or deal with one, and when there�s a problem I can�t sort it out with them because it�s a machine. It�s awful! I wish there was some sort of problem with the electricity, and that would take these assholes out once and for all.
J: My very last question, and then I�ll let you go, because I know you�re busy out there with your tour coming up, but I just wanted to know whether you� you�re clearly very unhappy, so I was wondering whether you saw yourself as unlucky or as a victim.
N: Well it�s all of the above. Some of it I brought on myself, I have to admit. But for the most part, 99 percent of it, it�s a combination of unlucky and, until now, I haven�t had the breaks. And now that I�m getting the breaks, I feel like it�s come too late, because I�m kind of worn out and, financially, there�s nothing to gain here. But it�s been a combination of bad luck and then what I consider just unfair circumstances. My wife, who I had married and made this vow with, the commitment and all that, she gave up on my career and our life together. That, to me, is really wrong. You know what I�m saying? It�s just flat-out wrong. I admit I was not home as often as I probably should have been, but we were building a career here. Building on it. So you have to give people a chance to build their career, and then you reap the rewards. Now, in this case there weren�t any rewards, but she should have been willing to gamble that there might be.
J: Yeah, that is a pretty raw deal, a bad hand to be dealt.
N: Well I�m glad you see it my way. I�m sorry if I complained a couple of times during this interview, but hopefully on stage, at the show, it�s going to be a whole other side. You�ll get the laughter and all that, which I�m sure you prefer.
J: Good! I�ve bought my ticket already.
N: What�s that?
J: I did buy my ticket already, so I look forward to that.
N: Hey! Wow! Good. Well, I�m going to have to get a ticket myself in order to get through the front door to do this show. Hopefully I can get a good price on one, you know?
J: Well, maybe a scalper outside, maybe a child will be trying to get rid of their ticket, since it is all-ages. Or you could just take one from a young boy.
N: Hey, that�s not a bad idea. I certainly should be able to get some sort of discount, because I am performing.
J: Right. Well, I appreciate you taking the time out as you get ready to start your big tour and as you work on your TV program.
N: Well thank you. I appreciate you taking the time out listen to this, and to transcribe this, and to alter this into a form that makes me look good. You can throw out the whole thing and find another interview with someone else where they came across well and just use those answers.
J: I will do that, I will definitely do that.
N: Fantastic.
J: Thank you very much! Good luck on the road.
N: Well thank you, Jim. You have a good evening.
J: Thanks, you too.
N: Goodbye.
J: Bye.
