Jhurdles11: So how long do you give
the planet to live? I mean global
warming is obviously taking its
toll.
NSFosaur: Hmm...
NSFosaur: Probably another 50 million years. But a
livable earth, probably only has 1000 years left.
Jhurdles11: Yeah, what I meant was,
How long do you give human
civilazation, if that's what you
would call it.
Jhurdles11: I also believe the Earth
could be livable again after we all
go extinct
NSFosaur: I never expect civilization to end. We'll be
on other planets, and then other star systems endlessly.
Jhurdles11: Endlessly, comsuming
every natural resource that we can
find, like the virus that we are, at
least in this point in time
NSFosaur: yup
NSFosaur: And eventually the universe will be ours.
Jhurdles11: Man, think of the real
estate industry once we get to that
point
NSFosaur: lol
NSFosaur: We won't even be human by then. Every
colony will evolve into a different subspecies.
Jhurdles11: But I give human
civilization as it is now, maybe
200 years, and that's generous
NSFosaur: Hmm, could be. I have trouble connecting
an end of current civilization with the rise of the galactic
civilization.
Jhurdles11: Unless some kind of Star
Trek morality comes around or
people stop looking at money as the
basis of life, there will be no
change
NSFosaur: Money would fuel our wishes to get off this
planet once resources become so expensive.
Jhurdles11: I still believe the robots
will take over, I mean come on,
they have taco meat that's already
cooked and seasoned in the stores
NSFosaur: Robots are very possible. In 20 years
computers will have as much power as the human brain.
Jhurdles11: It's the blind laziness of
human beings that leads me to that
conclusion
Jhurdles11: Obesity is up in children
NSFosaur: Robots would continue our civilization in
many ways though, because they will only know what
we taught them.
Jhurdles11: Then they're screwed too
NSFosaur: lol
Jhurdles11: What can we teach them?
Create a thing called television so
you can limit the brain powers of
others, make them fat and lazy,
and control the media that they
receive so they think in the exact
same way you do
NSFosaur: All humans have thought very similarly for
millions of years. We have the same brains.
Jhurdles11: Very similarly meaning
what?
NSFosaur: We all have the same needs, therefore we
think in the same way about what we don't have.
NSFosaur: Back in the caveman days, all lives were
very similar. You either hunted, or you gather berries.
Lives began to be different as the years passed but the
same basic needs were still there.
Jhurdles11: Yeah, we need to buy
designer clothes and SUV's that
guzzle gas
NSFosaur: Exactly.
NSFosaur: It just makes them easier to exploit anyway.
Can't complain about that.
Jhurdles11: That's the other thing we
can teach the robots, how to
conserve resources...
NSFosaur: Only if it's cost-effective.
Jhurdles11: You let the people making
money off the oil be in charge..
Jhurdles11: And they have all the
control and power over the flow of
the resource..
NSFosaur: Obviously a well thought out system...
Jhurdles11: And even when it's
blaringly obvious that there are
serious problems with the over use
of the resource, nothing will change
because money is the only thing
that matters
Jhurdles11: Up yours OPEC!
NSFosaur: Fuel Cell's are almost here...
Jhurdles11: How you can have an
organization that can control
almost everyone in the world is
beyond me
Jhurdles11: "We never do price fixing"
NSFosaur: "except when it makes us money..."
Jhurdles11: Here's a prime example
from my vacation
Jhurdles11: Billings, Montana, on
I-90, the first thing you see coming
into the city is the CONOCO
refinery
Jhurdles11: So you might think that
gas at CONOCO stations may be a
little cheaper since the distribution
point is so close
Jhurdles11: but they aren't, they all
have the same price as the
competition across the street
NSFosaur: lol
Jhurdles11: And as a buisnessman who
truely believes that nothing
matters in life other than money, I
see no problem with this
Jhurdles11: But as a real person who
believes in fairness and justice, I
see it as wrong
NSFosaur: A while ago I read something that the Shell
company said that it could turn all gas stations into
hydrogen stations for fuel cells in 2 years. Strange how
having an oil executive in the white house doesn't make
this real public...
Jhurdles11: I liked how the president
called on the baseball owners to
settle with the players, you can tell
he's a republican, supporting the
rich so they can get richer
Jhurdles11: Bastard
NSFosaur: Yeah, and I think it's funny that a president
comments on a trivial thing like baseball while the
economy is tanking.
Jhurdles11: Baseball's existance is in
question, I mean the nation's
pasttime is on the verge of
extinction
Jhurdles11: Baseball will be over if
they go on strike
NSFosaur: I think I heard that a few years ago...
Jhurdles11: Most of the teams aren't
making money as of now
NSFosaur: Then the owners need a good kick in the
pants to lower their expenses and take the game back
to its heyday.
Jhurdles11: Yes, lower their expenses
by putting in a salary cap
NSFosaur: Yup.
Jhurdles11: Which the players won't
let happen
Jhurdles11: The salary cap is the only
way to make the game more
competitive
NSFosaur: Some rule changes wouldn't hurt either, but
you're right.
Jhurdles11: but the players are greedy
fucks who want more money than
they already have
NSFosaur: Just like every other person on the planet.
Jhurdles11: What rule changes do you
suggest
NSFosaur: Let me say this first: I'm no baseball expert,
I dabble in it frequently but the more esoteric aspects I
don't know about.
NSFosaur: First: Test for steroids.
Jhurdles11: That's already agreed on
NSFosaur: I've heard it a lot and I agree: Make it
faster.
Jhurdles11: How?
NSFosaur: Sure it is... You don't see it happening right
now do you?
NSFosaur: Make the umpires tell the players to hurry
up like they do anyway when you're taking awhile to
adjust your gloves.
Jhurdles11: The players agreed to be
tested starting next season, they
had to or the public would be even
more sceptical
NSFosaur: I still doubt it's as foolproof as you would
think. Probably not testing for all the different kinds and
things like that because so many players would fail.
Jhurdles11: I don't think steroids are a
big problem, unless you count
nutritional supplements and stuff
you can get at GNA and stuff
NSFosaur: I can't say how big they are. Even 10% of
the players is a lot.
Jhurdles11: GNC that is
NSFosaur: Yeah, I can never remember the name of
that place.
Jhurdles11: Ok, so you say get in the
box and hit faster, anything else?
NSFosaur: Probably lots of stuff if I watched enough
games, but nothing comes to mind right now. I've kind
of always thought a limit on throwing balls to catch
possible stolen bases would be kind of good but
implementing that would be impossible.
Jhurdles11: The problem is, in order to
speed the game up you have to
change the game of baseball
NSFosaur: It was faster before, why can't it be again?
Jhurdles11: Why? Because we have to
have all those commercials in
between each half inning, that's
why
Jhurdles11: Damn, the problems with
baseball all come down to money
NSFosaur: But with current technology, ads can be
placed within the game, like the projections behind the
batters.
Jhurdles11: That is true, but do you
truely believe that the television
stations are going to change the
way they broadcast all of a
sudden? Do you think the people
watching the games are going to
accept all these computer generated
ads?
Jhurdles11: Human nature resists
change, it's the bane of our
existance
Jhurdles11: other than money
NSFosaur: I think the public would accept fewer
traditional commercials for ads placed into the
broadcasts.
NSFosaur: Many sports are already shown like this,
look at car racing, or tennis.
Jhurdles11: Well, car racing has as
many commercials as any other
sporting event
Jhurdles11: The stuff on the cars is
just a bonus
Jhurdles11: I don't watch enough
tennis to know
Jhurdles11: I know they do it in soccer
NSFosaur: But car racing is a good example of how
many ads consumers will take within an event.
Jhurdles11: but that's not an American
sport so no one knows about it
NSFosaur: I haven't watched a soccer match in a
while.
Jhurdles11: Yeah, rednecks that are
really drunk have no problems with
the cars being ads traveling at 170
MPH
Jhurdles11: Soccer has the boards all
around the field with company
names
NSFosaur: lol, I think most people watching any sports
are drunk or at least drinking a beer.
Jhurdles11: That's another problem
with society that I'm not going to
get into right now
Jhurdles11: But this is what I think
should happen with baseball
NSFosaur: What?
Jhurdles11: When they go on strike...
Jhurdles11: People at the MLS should
launch a huge campaign
Jhurdles11: Baseball fans will be fed
up with the sport...
NSFosaur: Sounds about right. I think pretty much all
sports could benefit though.
Jhurdles11: and they are
pre-conditioned to not having
non-stop actoin, like so much of
American society,
NSFosaur: lol
Jhurdles11: so they would be great
soccer fans
Jhurdles11: That's the big complaint
about soccer, there's no action,
there's no scoring
Jhurdles11: baseball fans are used to
that so it is a perfect fit
NSFosaur: Sound logic.
Jhurdles11: and just in time for the
playoff stretch too
NSFosaur: Are mls games televised?
NSFosaur: I mean, on basic channels?
Jhurdles11: Only the championship
game, but there will be a lot of air
time to be filled without any
baseball games
Jhurdles11: FoxSportsNet could show
soccer instead of baseball
Jhurdles11: and Espn2 already has
soccer saturdays
NSFosaur: I see...
Jhurdles11: The rise of soccer into the
mainstream starts with the collapse
of baseball
Jhurdles11: Not that baseball is in the
mainstream now anyways, but it'd
be a start
NSFosaur: How popular is soccer in japan?
Jhurdles11: Soccer is popular
everywhere on the Earth with the
exception of America, and maybe
Canada
NSFosaur: Well baseball is pretty popular in japan
right? So how do they deal with both?
Jhurdles11: I don't know
Jhurdles11: I'm pretty sure that they
would play soccer year round
NSFosaur: Hmm...
Jhurdles11: but I don't know about
baseball
NSFosaur: I always heard baseball there was just as
popular there as it is here if not more so.
Jhurdles11: Some moron will probably
find a way to Amercanize soccer
anyway
NSFosaur: Exploding ball.
Jhurdles11: Maybe they'll use like
three balls instead of just one
Jhurdles11: and they'll script all the
games just like wrestling
Jhurdles11: and make it into
entertainment
NSFosaur: Sports are entertainment...
Jhurdles11: and cause all the world to
laugh at American soccer once
again
NSFosaur: lol
Jhurdles11: Sports are a type of
entertainment, but wrestling is not
a sport, it is true entertainment,
the lawsuit settlement says so
NSFosaur: I believe you there. It doesn't even have
rules for the most part.
Jhurdles11: It's all about American
culture and the major problems that
it has
NSFosaur: All cultures have problems.
Jhurdles11: Yes, but I'm not living in
every culture so I can only really
complain about one
NSFosaur: lol, true
Jhurdles11: which is another reason to
pursue politics and try to change
things
NSFosaur: I choose to live in this culture, therefore it's
flaws are ignorable.
Jhurdles11: but you can't because
politics is one of the problems
NSFosaur: Yeah.
Jhurdles11: the rejection to change is
the fundamental problem
Jhurdles11: and it is hard to overcome
NSFosaur: But that's a factor in every society. Human
flaw.
Jhurdles11: Humans are a doomed race
NSFosaur: Just sit in a room full of old people and see
how long it is before they talk about the "good old days"
when segregation was rampant and people died from
easily treated diseases.
Jhurdles11: we don't have a high
enough level of thinking to realize
that some change is good
NSFosaur: I would say "most" change is good.
NSFosaur: Or else there would be no reason to change
it in the first place.
Jhurdles11: And this fact is what
makes me a hypocrite, because I can
speak out about human nature, but
I can't control my own
Jhurdles11: Yes, I agree, but some ideas
of change are not for the best
NSFosaur: Exactly, some are not. Most are.
NSFosaur: I do my best to control my nature, or at
least to recognize when evolution is controlling my
thoughts and not logic.
Jhurdles11: The question is do I hate
myself because I hate hypocrites, or
do I hate hypocrites because I hate
myself
NSFosaur: Hmm...
NSFosaur: I believe that you realized hypocrisy is bad
and therefore chose to hate all things that represent it.
Jhurdles11: Yeah, but I'm sure I hated
myself before then, so they could be
unrelated
NSFosaur: lol
Jhurdles11: The other problem is that
humans as a group are stupid
NSFosaur: Very true.
NSFosaur: Groups need to be fanatical to battle against
mammoths and other large dangerous beasts that
threatened early man.
Jhurdles11: Well, at least battling for
survival made sense
NSFosaur: Yup. And now all of our evolutionary
instincts act against society. Eventually genetic
engineering will need to be used to correct our
evolution.
Jhurdles11: now the blind need to
conform just makes
commercialization easier
NSFosaur: Yup.
Jhurdles11: I agree, no one wants to be
different
Jhurdles11: No one wants to stand out
there and try to evolve the culture
NSFosaur: And those who do are either insane or
brilliant, and no one can tell the difference.
Jhurdles11: Correct, and the resistance
to change just blows them off
NSFosaur: Yup.
Jhurdles11: And since only the
individual is speaking out, nothing
can become of it
Jhurdles11: It's a never ending circle
Jhurdles11: Actually, most circles are
neverending, but anyways
NSFosaur: Science pushes society forward when
individuals fail.
Jhurdles11: True, but even then it can
be resisted, just like the need for
fuel efficient cars
NSFosaur: But resistance lessens overtime, as
evidenced by the new hybrid vehicles.
Jhurdles11: It's all about controling
the masses, and public opinion
NSFosaur: Everything can be described that way.
Jhurdles11: More people are aware of
the problems with global warming,
so they call for hybrids
Jhurdles11: Even though they have
been in development for years but
the oil barons have stopped them
Jhurdles11: Controling the way people
think is the only way to bring
change
NSFosaur: The technology for them has been available
for a decade or two, but corporations could not afford
to develop them to their fullest until recently.
Jhurdles11: Oh look, money is the
problem again
NSFosaur: It's been how the world works for eons.
Jhurdles11: I should keep this stuff
and use it in my honors thesis
NSFosaur: And then write a book and sell it. Irony is
great.
Jhurdles11: Sell it and price gouge, I
think I like this idea
NSFosaur: Money is good.
Jhurdles11: and the root of most evil
doings
NSFosaur: Root of all evil doings.
Jhurdles11: Let's see... why did you rob
the house: money, why did you kill
the guy: money, why did you cook
your books: money, why did you
rape that woman: she was hot
Jhurdles11: I guess that is a rule and
not a law because there are
exceptions
NSFosaur: And you couldn't afford a hooker.
NSFosaur: I always thought I would find exceptions,
but in reality, there aren't any.
Jhurdles11: What about the wackos
who kill for fun?
NSFosaur: Money would get them medical treatment.
NSFosaur: And they would have grown up with good
mothers and fathers.
Jhurdles11: I still say that there are
some instances of human nature
being the root of evil, but I am a
strong supporter of money being
the major problem
NSFosaur: Those human nature errors can be fixed
with money, or at least lessened.
Jhurdles11: they can be fixed with
money, but are not caused by money
or the lack of it
NSFosaur: But if you can fix something with money,
isn't the lack of money what allows it to be?
Jhurdles11: Perhaps, but if I'm going
to murder people, who is going to
stop me, I mean, sure money could
buy me treatment, but would I
necessarily use it?
NSFosaur: If someone paid someone else to put you in
a straight jacket and sit you in a mental hospital.
Jhurdles11: Only if they were aware of
the problem
NSFosaur: Infinite funds would pay for medical testing
and psychological tests for all babies.
Jhurdles11: Well, at least I know I'll
have one supporter when I wage
my War on Money and promptly
end my political career
NSFosaur: lol
NSFosaur: What would replace money for the world?
NSFosaur: I've always thought of it more as a
necessary evil.
Jhurdles11: Yeah, what you need is to
eliminate the need for money first
Jhurdles11: change the way people
think about possessions
Jhurdles11: or eliminate business
altogether and just create things to
give out for free
NSFosaur: But how would new enterprise exist if
people can't donate funds?
Jhurdles11: you wouldn't need to
donate funds because nothing
would cost anything
NSFosaur: Yes, but how would someone create a
space station so to speak?
Jhurdles11: the group creating the
space station would gather the
materials needed to build it and
create the technology needed
Jhurdles11: Its too much of a utopian
idea to actually be doable
NSFosaur: That's kind of what I mean.
Jhurdles11: It would have to take a
change in the mind set of people, to
do things for the whole instead of
for themselves, which is against
human nature and would never
happen
Jhurdles11: If you could eliminate
greed from the system, you could
eliminate money
NSFosaur: True. But if human nature is changed,
would this society truly work? For instance, replace
humans with robots programmed just like humans
except for the society changes, would this society be
able to feed everyone and keep everyone happy?
NSFosaur: I kind of see technological progress as
happening when some become better off, some get
food, others don't in the name of progress.
Jhurdles11: Feeding everyone would
not be a problem, but the definition
of happiness would have to change
Jhurdles11: Happiness would have to
be the completion of the project and
the progress it causes
NSFosaur: Therefore happiness from love or fulfillment
would be replaced by the success of the society.
Jhurdles11: Yes
NSFosaur: I don't think it's worth it. Love gone in
return for money disappearing as well.
NSFosaur: It seems counter-intuitive. Look at ants.
They live in a sophisticated society and yet they are not
individuals.
Jhurdles11: Thus the paradox, to
achieve Utopia you have to wipe
the personality out of everyone and
eliminate the indivualism that is
treasured now
NSFosaur: And now look at the cycle: Individualism is
prized but not present in today's society and yet it is no
utopia.
Jhurdles11: That's why it's a perfect
society, because it can't happen if
everyone is an individual
Jhurdles11: So the problem isn't money,
but society itself
NSFosaur: I think we'll both receive college credit for
"Social Philosophy 101" now...
Jhurdles11: Yeah, how come I can't
think of this stuff during the day Back Nick's Webpage
