EXECUTIVE SESSION
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 22, 1978

House of Representatives,
John F. Kennedy Subcommittee
of the Select Committee on
Assassinations, Washington, D. C.

The subcommittee met at 10:20 a.m., pursuant to notice, in room 2344 of the Rayburn Office Building, the Honorable Richard Preyer (Chairman of the subcommittee), presiding.
Present: Representatives Preyer (presiding), Dodd and Sawyer.
Also Present: Michael Goldsmith, Counsel, and Gary Cornwell, Counsel.
Also Present: Elizabeth Berning, Chief Clerk, and Charles Berk, Betsy Wolf and James Wolf.

PART 1

TESTIMONY OF JAMES B. WILCOTT
A FORMER EMPLOYEE
OF THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY:

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  For the record, would you please state your name and address and occupation?
  

• Mr. Wilcott.
  My name is James B. Wilcott. My address is 2761 Atlantic Street, in Concord, and my occupation is electronic technician.
  

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Where is Concord located?
  

• Mr. Wilcott.
  It is a little bit east of Oakland, California.
  

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Have you received a copy of the Committee's rules?
  

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.
  
• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And a copy of the relevant House Resolutions?
  
• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.
  
• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And, Mr. Wilcott, is it true that you are a former employee with the CIA and that you are here today testifying voluntarily without a subpoena?
  
• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.
  
• Mr. Goldsmith.
  During what years did you work for the CIA?
  
• Mr. Wilcott.
  I worked from the years, May, of 1957 to, April, of 1966.
  
• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And in what general capacity did you work with the CIA?
  
• Mr. Wilcott.
  All in the finance -- in accounting all of the time.
  
• Mr. Goldsmith.
  How did you become employed with the CIA?
  
• Mr. Wilcott.
  I was recruited from the school in Syracuse New York, where I was taking a course in accounting and business administration.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Very generally now, what were your
  responsibilities as a finance employee with the agency?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, from May of 1957 to January of 1960

• Mr. Goldsmith
  -- excuse me, just answer the question
  very generally, without referring to anything right now, and
  please describe generally what your responsibilities were as
  a finance officer.

• Mr. Wilcott.
  My. responsibilities were primarily record keeping and disbursing of funds.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Mr. Wilcott, are you here with Counsel today?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, I am.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Would your Counsel identify himself for the recorder?

• Mr. Schaap.
  My name is William Schaap, S - c - h - a -a - p (spelling), and I am an Attorney
  here in Washington. I will give my card to the Committee.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Mr. Wilcott, did I ask you to prepare a list indicating the dates
  that you were employed with the CIA and where you were stationed?
  
• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, you did.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Did you prepare such a list?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, I did.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Do you have that list with you?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes. I do.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Referring to that list, would you tell. the Committee where you were stationed
  during your period with the CIA?
• Mr. Wilcott.
  Certainly, from May of 1957 to January of 1960, I was in the pre-fab building
  on the Potomac in finance. During the period, it was unvouchered funds,
  and my duties were general accounting, and my rate in status was GS-5.
  From about January of 1960 to about June of 1960, I was transferred to
  Finance Field Payroll, also, in this same building, on the Potomac.
  This was making payments and keeping pay records.
  From June of 1960 to June of 1964, I was stationed at XXXXXXX Station,
  and my primary duty was finance and cash disbursements. This was all cash payments
  and record keeping for the station. And during that period, I had been promoted GS-7
  and also gained a career status.
  From June of 1964 to about December of 1964, I was at Roseland.
  This was just prior to moving to Langley, in finance, and my duties there were
  policing accounts, and included auditing of special accounts.
  From January of 1965 to about March of 1965, I was at
  Langley in the same area, in finance, policing accounts and
  auditing of special accounts, and I was promoted up to GS-9.
  From April of 1965 to April of 1966, I was at Miami
  Station in finance, and I was handling the staff payroll.
  This was preparing and reconciling payrolls.
  In April of 1966, I resigned from the CIA.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  I take it, from your testimony, that in November of 1963,
  you were stationed in XXXXXXXXXXXXX Station, is that correct?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  That is right.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Drawing your attention to the period immediately after the assassination of
  President Kennedy, at that time, did you come across any information concerning
  Lee Harvey Oswald's relationship with the CIA?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, I did.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And will you tell the Committee what that relationship was?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, it was my understanding that Lee Harvey Oswald was an employee of
  the agency and was an agent of the agency.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  What do you mean by the term "agent"?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  That he was a regular employee, receiving a full-time salary for agent work
  for doing CIA operational work.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  How did this information concerning Oswald first come to your attention?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  The first time I heard about Oswald being connected in any way with CIA
  was the day after the Kennedy assassination.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And how did that come to your attention:

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, I was on day duty for the station. It was a guard-type function at
  the station, which I worked for overtime. There was a lot of excitement going on
  at the station after the Kennedy assassination.
  
  Towards the end of my tour of duty, I heard certain things about Oswald somehow being connected with the agency, and I didn't really believe this when I heard it, and I
  thought it was absurd. Then, as time went on, I began to hear more things in that line.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  I think we had better go over that one more time.
  When, exactly, was the very first time that you heard or came across information
  that Oswald was an agent?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I heard references to it the day after the assassination.
  
• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And who made these references to Oswald being an agent of the CIA?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I can't remember the exact persons. There was talk about it going on at the station,
  and several months following at the station.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  How many people made this reference to Oswald being an agent of the CIA?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  At least -- there was at least six or seven people, specifically, who said that
  they either knew or believed Oswald to be an agent of the CIA.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Was Jerry Fox one of the people that made. this allegation?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  To the best of my recollection, yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And who is Jerry Fox?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Jerry Fox was a Case Officer for his branch the Soviet Russia Branch,
  XXXXXXXXXX Station, who purchased information from the Soviets.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Mr. Wilcott, did I ask you to prepare a list of CIA Case Officers working
  at XXXXXXXXX Station in 1963?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, you did.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Did you prepare such a list?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, I did.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Is that list complete and does it have every CIA Case Officer who worked
  XXXXXXXXXX in 1963?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Oh, no. It doesn't have every one. It has every one that I can remember.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Did you bring that list with you today?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, I did.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Were any of these people on your list possible subjects who made references
  to Oswald being a CIA agent?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Would you read the list to the Committee?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Only of Case Officers.

• Ms. Berning.
  I think we ought to state that the record shows that Mr. Sawyer is a member of
  the Kennedy Subcommitte

• Preyer.
  We will.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Upon your memory and the list that your brought with you today, will you tell
  the Committee the names of the CIA Case Officers who you remember working
  XXXXXXXXXX in 1963?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes. There was XXXXXXXXXXXX Branch, who had XXXXXXXXXXX cover.
  Jerry Fox, SR Branch, Soviet Russia Branch --

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Excuse me, please proceed very slowly.

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Jerry Fox, SR Branch, Reid Dennis, Chief of Soviet Satellite Branch; and
  XXXXXXXXXX, China Branch, and he also had a cover.
  John P. Horton, XXXXXXXXX Section; XXXXXXXXXXXXX Branch;
  and Chester Ito, XXXXXXXXX Branch; and Kan Takai, XXXXX Branch;
  and Jim Delaney, China Branch; and Bob Rentner, SR Branch --
  and there is some question about that, the branch he was with.
  Larry Watanabi, XXXXXX Branch, Senior Case Officer; and
  XXXXXXXXXXX, deep commercial cover agent.
  There was a person, Dave, who was a Deputy Chief.
  Dave -- I can't remember his last name, Deputy Chief of the
  China Branch; and then a person whose last name was XXXXXXXXX
  in the XXXXXXXXX Branch.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Do you remember which of these individuals if any, made the specific allegation
  or reference that Oswald was an agent?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  It has been 15 years, and I can't remember specifically who said what, but certainly
  I am sure that Jerry Fox, for instance, had at least made some mention of it.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  At the time that this allegation first came to your attention, did you discuss it with anyone?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Oh, yes. I discussed it with my friends and the people that I was associating with socially.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Who were your friends that you discussed this with?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  XXXXXXXXXXXX George Breen, Ed Luck, and XXXXXXXXXXXXX.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Who was George Breen?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  George Breen was a person in Registry, who was my closest friend while
  I was in XXXXXXXXXXXXXX.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Was he a CIA employee? Mr. Wilcott. Yes, he was.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And would he corroborate your observation that Oswald was an agent?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I don't know.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  At the time that this allegation first came to your attention, did you learn
  the name of Oswald's Case Offficer at the CIA?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  No.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Were there any other times during your stay with the CIA at XXXXXXXXXX
  Station that you came across information that Oswald had been a CIA agent?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  When was that?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  The specific incident was soon after the Kennedy assassination, where an agent,
  a Case Officer -- I am sure it was a Case Officer -- came up to my window to draw
  money, and he specifically said in the conversation that ensued, he specifically said,
  "Well, Jim, the money that I drew the last couple of weeks ago or so was money,"
  either for the Oswald project or for Oswald.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Do you remember the name of this Case Officer?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  No, I don't.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Do you remember when specifically this conversation took place?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Not specifically, only generally.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  How many months after the assassination was this.

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I think it must have been two or three months after the assassination.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Do you remember where this conversation took place?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  It was right at my window, my disbursing cage window.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Did you discuss this information with anyone?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Oh, yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  With whom?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Certainly with George Breen, XXXXXXXXXXX the circle of social friends that we had.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  How do you spell XXXXXXXXXX last name?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  XXXXXXXXXXXXX (spelling).

• Mr. Schaap.
  For the record, I have made a list of all of these spellings of the names which have
  been mentioned, which I will give to the stenographer so that he will have them correctly.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Did this Case Officer tell you what Oswald's cryptonym was?
  
• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, he mentioned the cryptonym specifically under which the money was drawn.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And what did he tell you the cryptonym was?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I cannot remember.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  What was your response to this revelatic as to what Oswald's cryptonym was?
  Did you write it down or do anything?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  No; I think that I looked through my advance book -- and I had a book where the
  advances on projects were run, and I leafed through them, and I must have at least
  leafed through them to see if what he said was true.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And are you saying then that you attempted to investigate this allegation?
• Mr. Wilcott. No, I am not saying that. It was more of a casual kind of thing,
  to my way of thinking.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Did you check your cash disbursement files?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Not the files, no.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  I am not sure I am following, then, what specifically you did check.

• Mr. Wilcott.
  It was a book that I had. At the end of the day we would list all of the advances
  that were made in an advance book. It was just a three-ring binder, and we would
  list down the advances by cryptonym and the amounts and then reconcile that
  with the daily disbursements.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  How long were these records maintained?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  They were maintained on a thirty-day basis, and then they were closed off at the end of the month.
• Mr. Goldsmith. So, does that mean you were able to check
  back only thirty days from the time that you were given this information?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  I realize this is testimony 15 years after the fact. However, if you received this
  information two or three months after the assassination, at a time that Oswald
  was already dead and had been dead for two or three months, what purpose would
  have been served by checking records that were only 30 days old?
  Do you follow the question?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  No.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Well, in other words, if you got the information three months after the assassination,
  Oswald had already been dead for three months, is that right?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Answer "yes" or "no" for the recorder.

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  You testified that your records were only kept for thirty days, is that correct?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Then, by checking your records, which only went back thirty days, isn't it true
  that you wouldn't have gotten any information concerning Oswald anyway because
  Oswald had already been dead for one or two months?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  That is true.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  So, then, really, no purpose would have been served by checking those records?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  That is right.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And did you check any other records?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  No.

• Mr. Preyer.
  I understand this might be a good place for us to break and go and vote, so that
  we will take another recess for about ten minutes. I am sorry.

(Whereupon, a recess was taken while the members of the Committee went
to the floor of the House for a vote.)

• Mr. Preyer.
  The Committee will resume.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Mr. Wilcott, you indicated that after receiving this information concerning Oswald's
  cryptonym, you went back to check some files, is that correct?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Not really files; it was my book.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Your book.

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I flipped through it.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  What is the name of the book?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  It was my Request for Advance Book.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And for purposes of clarification, now, if Oswald was already dead at the time that
  you went to this book, why did you go back to examine the book?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, I am sorry -- if Oswald was what?

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  At the time you went to look at the book, Oswald was already dead is that correct?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  That is right.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Why did you go back to look at the book?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, the payments that were made especially to substations like Oswald's was operated
  -- it was a substation of the XXXXXXXX station, and they had one in XXXXXX
  and they had one in XXXXXXXXX-- and it may be six months or even a year after the
  intial allocation that the final accounting for those funds were submitted, and they would
  operate out of revolving funds or out of their own personal funds in many cases.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  So, is your testimony then that even though. Oswald was already dead at that time,
  the book might have contained a reference to either Oswald or the Oswald project and
  that that reference would have been to a period six months or even a year earlier,
  is that correct?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  That is correct.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Mr. Wilcott, how long were these advance books retained?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  They were retained for approximately one year by the finance office, approximately
  one to two years, and were destroyed at the time of audit.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  So that they would be routinely destroyed at the time of auditing?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Did you check any of the earlier books?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  No, I didn't, as far as the Oswald cryptonym was concerned; no, I didn't.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  So basically, you checked only one of the advance books, is that correct?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  My current one that I had on my counter.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And when you testified earlier that you learned Oswald's cryptonym, by that do you mean
  that you learned both Oswald's personal cryptonym and his project cryptonym,
  or was it one of the two?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, it was just a cryptonym, and it could refer to a person, or it could refer to
  something else and I would have no way of knowing what a cryptonym referred to.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  So, when the officer told you -- strike that. So, when the Case Officer made
  reference to a cryptonym you didn't know whether the cryptonym referred to Oswald
  specifically or to a project in which Oswald had been involved is that correct?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, sir.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Mr. Wilcott, assuming that Oswald had been employed as an agent by the CIA,
  would there have been a reference to that fact in the CIA's cash disbursement file?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  No.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Why not?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Anything they had there would have --sometimes they used as many as two or
  three different cryptonyms and they would have -- it all depended on how far they
  wanted to isolate it from the original source, from the original source as to
  where the project was run.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  But as a matter of routine, would the CIA cash disbursement files refer to the
  cryptonym of either the person or the project that is receiving funds?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, I am sure somewhere.

• Mr. Goldsmith. As a matter of routine, there would be
  that reference? Do you believe that there was such a reference
  to Oswald?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, I do, and I believe there was such a reference.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Well, if I understand your correctly, then, you answer now was somewhat different
  from what you testified earlier. And I will ask the question again, okay?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Assuming that Oswald was an agent for the CIA, would the agency's cash
  disbursement files have referred to either Oswald or to his cryptonym?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And you have had access to the cash disbursement files at XXXXXXXXXXXXX Station?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, for a limited period.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Were you ever able to check those particular files?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I was able to but I never did.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  So, you never checked the cash disbursement files to see if any reference was made
  there to Oswald's cryptonym, is that correct?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  That is right. It was only my personal files -- my internal files, prior to the end of the month.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  I understand. How long were the XXXXXXXXX cash disbursement files or records retained?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  The details approximately two years. We had accountings, or we had audits about
  every two years, and then then files that I kept the requests for advances, the details
  of the accountings that were done usually on a monthly basis by the XXXXX Station
  Branches, would be destroyed and then they would be -- and, in fact, I helped destroy them.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Are you saying, then, that the cash disbursement files as a matter of routine would be
  periodically destoryed?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Do you know whether CIA Headquarters would have had either copies or originals
  of the cash disbursement files?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  They would have summaries of some sort.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Would those summaries be destroyed as a matter of routine, to your knowledge?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I really don't know.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Were you ever able to find any indication in any of the XXXXXXX Station's records
  that Oswald was, in fact, a CIA agent?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, I never really looked.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  To your knowledge, would any records at CIA Headquarters document that Oswald
  was a CIA agent?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I believe they would at one time. Whether they are there now or not is hard to say.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Do you have any personal knowledge that any records at CIA Headquarters
  were ever destroyed?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  No.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Do you have any knowledge of any record of the CIA at the XXXXXXXX Station
  ever being destroyed out of the ordinary course of business, not as a matter of routine

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  To your personal knowledge, CIA records XXXXXXXXXX were destroyed?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Destroyed or changed.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Could you give an example of that?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes. Let us say, for instance, that there was a certain project going on, and the project was
  one that became known that this project was being carried out -- and we call it "flaps,"
  -- and the Case Officer in charge might get word that somebody from headquarters was
  coming to review the files to investigate the flap. Well, they would go through the files
  and take out anything that they thought was, say, indicative of how this flap occurred and
  change the files.
  For instance, in accounting, when we had our audits, for instance, in most of the audits,
  he would call up somebody -- let's say in China Branch -- and say "I know you
  were having problems with this, would you like to look it over before the auditors come?",
  and they might look it over and retype the accounting for funds for their project and,
  you know, make changes that they might think were in their interest to do.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Did you ever actually Xerox records being destroyed or changed?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, I did.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And have you just described one of those instances to us?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Mr. Wilcott after leaving the XXXXXXXXX Station, was there any other time when
  you came across any information that indicated that Oswald was a CIA agent?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  In conversation.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Is the answer to that "yes"?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  When did that occur?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  From the time I left I talked at various times, especially at parties and things like that,
  on social occasions, with people at headquarters and with people at my station, and we would converse about it and I used to say things like, "What do you think about Oswald being connected with the CIA?", and things like that.
  
• Mr. Goldsmith.
  What was their response?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  The response was, among quote a few people "Oh, well, I am sure he was."

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  What were these people's names?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, George Breen, again, after we came back from XXXXXXXX, for instance,
  XXXXXXXX was a person that I knew before I had gone to XXXXXX Station,
  and I met with him, and I had dinner at his house with his wife and my wife.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Just give us their names. Anyone e1se?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Not that I can recall.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  So, it is your testimony that, once you left the XXXXXXXX station, people, both at
  headquarters, in Langley, and at the Miami Station, made references to Oswald
  being an agent, is that correct?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, in a speculative manner.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  How many people have you spoken to that said that Oswald was an agent of the CIA,
  to the best of your recollection?

• Mr. Schaap.
  Do you mean, how many people who were in the CIA or how many people in
  the general population?

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  How many people in the CIA?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  With any degree of certainty, other than just speculation, I would say, six or seven
  with some degree of certainty.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Do you have a personal opinion as to how or for what purpose the CIA might have
  handled any projects that involved Lee Harvey Oswald?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I am sorry?

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Do you have an opinion as to how the CIA might handled any projects involving Oswald
  and for what purpose they might have used Oswald?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, I have opinions.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  What is that opinion?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I believe that Oswald was a double agent, was sent over to the Soviet Union to do
  intelligence work, that the defection was phoney and it was set up and that I believe
  that Marina Oswald was an agent that had been recruited sometime before and
  was waiting their in Tokyo for Lee Harvey Oswald.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  What is the basis for that opinion?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  The basis for that is discussions that I had with people at the XXXXX Station.
  Those are discussions with people who gave the indication that there was every
  certainty that Oswald was an agent of CIA, runout of XXXXXXX Station, and that
  he was freed from Russia there in the final courses in Russia and was trained by CIA
  people at Atsugi.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  However, your testimony is that you spoke to only six people as an estimate who
  indicated that Oswald was a CIA agent -- and when I say six people, I mean six CIA
  people, is that correct?
  There were more people than that that believed it, and six people with any degree of
  certainty that, you know, I felt from what they were saying that they either had some
  kind of substantial knowledge, or they had talked to somebody who had some knowledge.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  How many people from the CIA did you speak to who speculated that Oswald
  was an agent?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Dozens, literally dozens.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Do you have any explanation for why none of these people have come forward
  with this story?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  What is that explanation?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I have been trying to talk about this thing and other things for the last ten years.
  I found it very, very difficult to talk about these things that I think ought to be
  talked about, very difficult. I talked to reporters from various papers, and I talked to
  people in other forms of meetings, and to me it is not surprising at all.
  I think, or I am certain, in my own mind, that, if these people were approached that
  some of these people --

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Why has it been difficult?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, it has been difficult because people don't want to get involved, and people were scared.
  I was scared until the Carter Administration. I was really scared to go to the Government
  and talk about any of these things.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Did you bring your allegation to the attention of the Warren Commission?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  No, I didn't.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And what is the reason for that?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I really didn't think that the Warren Commission was out to really get at the facts,
  and I am not saying that they purposely did anything, because I don't know, and maybe
  they did or maybe they didn't, but certainly, they didn't impress me as really trying to
  scrutinize the evidence that there was. And their security that there is in the
  Government didn't strike me as the kind of security that would keep me from getting
  attacked in some way, if someone wanted to do it.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  How did you know, in 1963, what type of security precautions the Warren Commission
  had for conducting its investigation?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I don't understand.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  You have indicated that you were not inclined to go to the Warren Commission
  because you were concerned about their security?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Did you have any basis for thinking that their security was poor?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  In 1963, I wasn't think that much about it.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  So, it never really came forward for you to go to the Warren Commission, did it?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Not until after I left the agency.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  When was the first time that you alleged in public that Oswald was a CIA agent.

• Mr. Wilcott.
  In 1968.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  So, you first came across this information in November of 1963, is that correct?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  That is correct.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And the first time you alleged in public this allegation was in 1968?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  That is correct.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Why did you wait five years?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  We thought every year, my wife and I and the friends that we had -- we said,
  "Well, this is one thing that they aren't going to keep a lid on."
  And we thought every year it was going to be coming out, and especially I didn't think that
  -- since what I had heard was all hearsay that I would never have seen Oswald or anything
  like that --this is not the kind of thing that would be used for even something like
  the Warren Commission, and they would have to have something more substantial than that
  to go on, aside from the fact that I never would have done it in the CIA, being a very risky
  thing to do with the CIA.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Is it fair to say that the CIA is an operation that runs itself on a "need-to-know" basis?
  Would you tell the Committee what the "need-to-know" principle is?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  It is based on the principle that only those persons who are involved in a project or involved
  in operation -- and even things that would not seem to be at all in any way secret
  -- only those people should know about it and nobody else should know about it, and that
  was a "need-to-know" basis.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  If the agency, in fact, was run on the "need-to-know" basis, how would you account for
  so many people supposedly knowing that Oswald was an agent?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  The "need-to-know" principle was not all that we followed, and just about every one of the
  big projects that the agency was involved in, information leaked out, and we especially
  within the CIA knew about it, and someone would go to a party and have a little bit too
  much to drink and start saying things that they really shouldn't be saying to keep in mind
  what the "need-to-know" principle was.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Why would anyone have shared this particular information with you?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Especially after Kennedy's assassination, there was a great deal of very, very serious
  discontent with CIA, and the morale at the station had dropped considerably, and we
  heard some very, very bitter denunciations of CIA and the projects that they were undertaking.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  I am not sure that that is responsive.
  Why would anyone share the information that Oswald was an agent with you, Mr. Wilcott?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I don't know how to answer that.

• Mr. Schaap.
  Excuse me. (The witness conferred with his Counsel.)

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Do you have anything to add in response to that question?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, I was on security duty, and on security duty, agents were coming in and out of the
  station, and I pulled a lot of security duty, three and four nights right in a row, and pulled
  as much as 24 hours on weekends, and an agent would come back from meeting with
  somebody and he would be waiting for his wife to pick him up or would be waiting for a
  call from one of the indigenous agents that he was running and a lot of times
  conversations would be talked.
  And I think that is why I probably heard a lot more things than other people did, for instance,
  than my wife did, because of that situation.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Mr. Wilcott, when did you leave the agency?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I left the agency in April of 1966 for the Miami Station.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  I am sorry, I didn't hear.

• Mr. Wilcott.
  -- to the Miami Station.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And were you dismissed by the agency or did you resign?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I resigned.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  To your knowledge, did the CIA ever conduct an investigation into your allegation that
  Oswald was an agent?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Not that I know of.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Did you ever bring your allegation to the attention of anyone in the CIA?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  No.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  Can you give the Committee the names of any persons who might
  corroborate your allegation?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  All of the people that we mentioned in the case.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And finally, as I said at the beginning is it fair to say that you are here voluntarily today?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, it is.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And you testified without any reservation?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  And your testimony has been truthful and candid?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Goldsmith.
  I have nothing further, Mr. Chairman.

• Mr. Preyer.
  I will ask a few questions. Why this information would.come out to a CIA station XXXXXXX
  rather than some other part of the world is, I assume, because Oswald was trained in Japan,
  according to your belief. He was in the military service over there, and so you feel be was a
  double agent who was trained while he was in the military by the CIA, and you mentioned he
  was given a Russian course. And do you know for a fact that he was given Russian courses?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  No; I know for a fact, or I know from hearsay, and I believe it to be true from the
  circumstances how this conversation came up and so on.

• Mr. Preyer.
  Well, that is the other question that I want to be very sure on. I think you are making
  some important allegations here, and you have been very helpful in giving some witnesses'
  names through which we might be able to corroborate it, but I think it is very important that
  we know clearly how much of this was cocktail party talk and how much was shop talk and
  how much was speculation and rumor and how much was hard fact.
  You mentioned the day after the assassination you talked to someone at the station about it.
  Did he say to you, "I think Oswald was a CIA agent," or did that first person say to you
  that he was a CIA agent? Can you recall whether the tone of it was rumor or shop talk
  or was the tone of it that "this is true"?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, sir, the day after the assassination I don't think that there was any of that kind of talk.
  The day after, perhaps, two or three weeks after, the kind of talk was that CIA was
  somehow connected.

• Mr. Preyer.
  That was shop talk, speculation, I gather; people were saying that the CIA is somehow
  connected with it.

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, I believed it to be a little more than speculation, that the source at least of this kind of
  talk was, I believe, to be something more serious than speculation.

• Mr. Preyer.
  It was your conclusion from that talk that some of these people might have
  knowledge that he was a CIA agent rather than that they were speculating about it?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, sir.

• Mr. Preyer.
  And you did mention the case officer who came in and told you that the money he had drawn
  out a few weeks earlier was drawn out for Oswald?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, sir.

• Mr. Preyer.
  He stated that as a fact and not that he believed it was drawn out for Oswald or it could have
  been or something like that?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  It was stated as a fact -- Oswald or the Oswald project.

• Mr. Preyer.
  How many people were at the station in XXXXXXXXXXX approximately?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I believe our full strength was around XXXXXXX and we never actually had that many,
  I don't think. It was about XXX I think, was our actual roster was.

• Mr. Preyer.
  And Miami, was that comparable in size?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  No, sir; that was a smaller station.

• Mr. Preyer.
  So that in XXXX, you indicated, six or seven people talked to you and were, as I
  understood it, rather definite about the Oswald connection?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, sir.

• Mr. Preyer.
  And dozens of others talked to you in a general, speculative manner?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, sir.

• Mr. Preyer.
  Why did you resign from the CIA?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  My wife and I came to believe that what CIA was doing couldn't be reconciled
  to basic principles of democracy or basic principles of humanism.

• Mr. Preyer.
  It had no relation to your performance?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  No, sir; I think I had good performance reviews right up to the time that I left.

• Mr. Preyer.
  I believe you have written an article about this, an unpublished article.

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Preyer.
  And have you made that available to us?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, I have.

• Mr. Preyer.
  Thank you. I have no further questions.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  Do you distinguish between an agent and a paid informant or do you use those
  terms inter changeably?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, sir, I think of an agent as an actual employee of the Agency; we called them
  indigenous agents XXXXXXXX who were agents that were on a regular salary by the
  case officer who was running an agent, and then there were a lot of one-time informers
  or maybe one- or two- or three-time informers that were paid like maybe $50 or so to
  attend a meeting of a political party or something of that nature.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  When you refer to Oswald as an agent, you are referring to the extent you have
  -- as an agent as opposed to a paid informer, in effect?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes; it is my belief that he was a regular agent and this was a regular project of
  the Agency to send Oswald to the Soviet Union.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  Now, did the XXXXXXX station have any jurisdiction over the Russian operation
  or within the Soviet Union?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, sir. That was the SR branch which had all of the projects having anything to do
  with the Soviet Union.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  It went through the XXXXXXX station?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, that was just those that were assigned to XXXXXX and those projects that
  were assigned to XXXXXXXX. Every station was divided up -- at least every
  class station was divided up into areas, where we would have a China branch,
  Korea branch and XXXXXXXX branch and SR branch and SR satellite.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  I noticed in somne of the information we are provided you say that following your
  leaving the CIA in 1967 or thereabouts, for a period of some three years or so,
  you were harassed by the CIA and the FBI and sabotaged, as I recollect it.

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, sir; I believe that happened.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  Could you tell us what those things consisted of?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I think the most significant thing that canbe actually substantiated is the circumstances
  surrounding my employment with the community renewal program in Utica, and I
  was the finance analyst for the community renewal program in Utica. One day Frank
  O'Connor, the director of the program, called me into his office and he said that he had
  had a discussion with the public safety commissioner and that the public safety
  commissioner told him that my phone was bugged, that my house was under
  surveillance and that a Federal indictment was coming down on me at any time, that he
  had talked to the mayor and the mayor decided not to fire me but asked me to sign a
  resignation form which he would date the day previous to the date that the Federal
  indictment came down.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  Who told this to the community development people?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  My boss, Frank O'Connor said that this was told him by the public safety commissioner
  and that the FBI had told the public safety commissioner.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  Who is the public safety commissioner?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I don't remember his name now offhand.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  Was he in Utica?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes. The mayor, Mr. Sawyer, was Dominic Casaro. He was the mayor at that time.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  Were there any other instances of harassment?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes, there were several other incidents that I believe could possibly be somehow
  connected with CIA.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  What were they?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, they were such incidents as the FBI agent that was working with a group
  -- and this was an established fact that this person was an FBI agent and that he was
  working with the group that I was working with an antiwar group and, to my mind,
  there is a very great likelihood that this person was there to neutralize me,
  as the CIA term went.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  What did he do -- anything?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, I would get calls and they would say "We know all about you," shooting a machine gun
  into the phone, and hang up, and I would get notes written in snow or my windshield and I had
  slips of paper left under my windshield and this sort of thing.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  What would they say?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  They were extremely vulgar and I don't think that I should give the full context of them.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  What was the gist of them?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, it was "We all know all about you" and signed "The Minutemen" or some very
  vulgar remarks and "We know all about you and signed "Minutemen."

• Mr. Sawyer.
  What was the name of the FBI agent who you think infiltrated this antiwar group?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Gordon Finch.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  He was in Utica also?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Yes.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  What were some other instances?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Well, my tires were slashed and damage done to my car and I believe sugar
  poured in the gas tank, and whether this was actually CIA or not I have no way of knowing,
  and it could also have been just for harassment as a result of antiwar activities but I think
  there is also a possibility that it could have been attempts to intimidate me into
  talking about the CIA.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  Are there any others that you can specifially identify as coming from the CIA or FBI?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  I don't confirm any of them except with the community renewal program as coming
  from there and I am suspicious that many of the other things that happened may
  have had as its source the CIA.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  Well, what were your antiwar activities that you refer to?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  We had -- in Utica there was a group called the Vietnam Educational Council,
  which was informed people, formed to inform people as to what was going on in Vietnam,
  and we didn't feel that there was coverage enough in the media as to what was going on,
  and the purpose of the Vietnam Educational Council was to inform people as to what was
  going on.
  I was on the executive committee along with doctors and lawyers and some of the most
  respected people in the comunity.
  
• Mr. Sawyer.
  How long were you associated with that?

• Mr. Wilcott.
  Approximately two years, sir.

• Mr. Sawyer.
  Thank you. That is all I have.

Read the rest of the Wilcott testimony