-----Original Message-----
From: lisa [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 06 June 2002 13:47
To: mocomain
Subject: Re: herald

Mr. Gillespie, I sincerely appreciate ALL your help!
A question not answered: let's say my great grandfather had 3 brothers, would they all share the same coat or no? [mocomain] They would have the same coat with certain marks (heraldically called differences) to indicate their respective places in the scheme of descent.  

 I am basically asking that every Irish name is not guaranteed a shield, only certain ones?
[mocomain] Arms follow names but do not belong to names: they belong to people.
 
And also, the ones advertised on line are basically sales ploys?[mocomain]  While some heraldic salesmen are more scrupulous than others I think that the short answer is 'YES'.  I think that all arms acquired from such people should be accompanied by the motto : Caveat emptor.
 
My Name and Address is
 Lisa Cohen
26825 Shiawassee
Southfield, MI 48034 
USA
[mocomain] 
Other info will follow by post.
 
MOC for FG 
----- Original Message -----
From: mocomain
To: lisa
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 6:40 AM
Subject: RE: herald

Dear Lisa,
 
A coat of arms is property.  All rights to its use are vested in the grantee and the grantee's descendants.  This, effectively, means descendants of the grantee's name.  The coincidence of a surname does not impart or imply any right to arms that have been granted to another. There is certainly no sucht hing as a coat of arms that can be used by anyone called McGinty, Gilmore or any other name.
 
There are certainly unscrupulous people who will sell anybody something which isc laimed to be the customer's 'family coat of arms'.  While this Office is the State's authority on heraldry, we are not the heraldry police.  It would be up to the person whose arms have been appropriated to take a civil action.  By the nature of the offence the offended party is seldom aware of what is happening.  There is no reason why Ms McGinty should not decorate her front hall with a shield of arms to which an unrelated McGinty has ther ights (though it is unlikely she would wish to do so).  If, however, she places them outside of her house; uses them on her writing paper or in any othe way uses them as if they were her own, she is certainly wrong to do so.  Ms McGinty can no more use someone else's arms than she can drive away his motor-car simply because she shares a surname.
 
If your are an Irish citizen or resident in Ireland or a person of provable Irish descent born abroad, you can apply to the Chief Herald for a Grant of Arms.  If you e-mail me your postal address I will arrange to send you some details of procedures and fees.
 
I hope that this is of use to you.
 
Kind regards,
 
Fergus Gillespie
Deputy Chief Herald of Ireland   
-----Original Message-----
From: lisa [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 06 June 2002 02:13
To: herald
Subject: herald

I am wondering, and perhaps you could tell me....
I see 'places' on line that offer shields and coat of arms for clans etc. In fact upon researching my own lines (McGinty and Gilmore/Gilmour) I am finding different ones. Is there a way to find out which is authentic and not a sales ploy?
An example is shown here
http://www.geocities.com/irishmcginty/coat.html
How do I know what, if any, is the correct sheild?
Any help appreciated.
Lisa


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