On the CARM web site at http://www.carm.org/doctrine/whatisthetrinity.htm, we find the following explanation of their concept of the trinity. I have added my thoughts in the Blue writing to help them clarify what they are trying to say. I hope this helps the folks at CARM. – Howard Mazzaferro

What is the Trinity?

     The word "trinity" is a term used to denote the Christian doctrine that God exists as a unity of three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  Each of the persons is distinct from the other, yet related in essence.

DISTINCT, a. [L. See Distinguish.]

 

1. Literally, having the difference marked; separated by a visible sign, or by a note or mark; as a place distinct by name.

 

2. Different; separate; not the same in number or kind; as, he holds tow distinct offices; he is known by distinct titles.

 

3. Separate in place; not conjunct; as, the two regiments marched together, but had distinct encampments.

 

4. So separated as not to be confounded with any other thing; clear; not confused.

  Each is divine in nature, but each is not the totality of the Godhead.

Col. 2:9, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

  Each has a will, loves, and says "I", and "You" when speaking.  The Father is not the same person as the Son who is not the same person as the Holy Spirit who is not the same person as the Father.  Each is divine, yet there are not three gods, but one God.  There are three persons individual subsistences, or persons.  The word "subsistence" means something that has a real existence. The word "person" denotes individuality and self awareness.  The Trinity is three of these, though the latter term has become the dominant one used to describe the individual aspects of God known as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. 

According to Trinitarians Jesus was raised from the dead in the same human body that he died in. After his resurrection, he was glorified and he ascended to Heaven with his human body. Therefore, does the totality of the trinity reside in Jesus human body or does Jesus human body reside in the one spirit being God?

       Included in the doctrine of the Trinity is a strict monotheism which is the teaching that there exists in all the universe a single being known as God who is self-existent and unchangeable (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8).  Therefore, it is important to note that the doctrine of the trinity is not polytheistic as some of its critics proclaim.  Trinitarianism is monotheistic by definition and those who claim it is polytheistic demonstrate a lack of understanding of what it really is.

·         The Trinity

§         God is three persons             

§         Each person is divine

§         There is only one God.

Let us apply some simple logic: According to the above, the following should be true as well.

·         The Trinity

§         God is three persons             

§         Each person is divine

§         There is only one three persons.  Hmm?

      Many theologians admit that the term "person" is not a perfect word to describe the three individual aspects/foci found in God.   When we normally use the word person, we understand it to mean physical individuals who exist as separate beings from other individuals.  But in God there are not three entities, nor three beings.  God, is a trinity of persons consisting of one substance and one essence.  God is numerically one. Yet, within the single divine essence are three individual subsistences that we call persons.

If the Bible calls the Father God, Jesus God, and the Holy Spirit God and if these uses of God (Theos) are not the totality of the Godhead (True God), what word means the totality of the Godhead? Doesn’t the Bible call the Father “the only True God?” This sounds like the Father is the totality of the Godhead to me. In addition, do not Trinitarians say Jesus is Jehovah (Jehovah being the name of the Total Triune being). They also say the Father is Jehovah.

     The word "trinity" is not found in the Bible. But this does not mean that the concept is not taught there. The word "bible" is not found in the Bible either, but we use it anyway. Likewise, the words "omniscience," which means "all knowing," "omnipotence," which means "all powerful," and "omnipresence," which means "present everywhere," are not found in the Bible either. But we use these words to describe the attributes of God.  So, to say that the Trinity isn't true because the word isn't in the Bible is an invalid argument.

 

Maybe if CARM would take some time off from criticizing true Christians and actually read the Bible, they would not make such ridiculous statements as this. The etymology of the word Bible informs us that it comes from the Greek word biblos. Thayer Definition for biblos is:  1) a written book, a roll, a scroll. And get this, the word DOES appear in the bible a number of time. An especially interesting verse is Mark 12:26 where it is usually translated as the “book of Moses” and it would not be a far stretch to read this as the “Bible of Moses.”

 

Is there subordination in the Trinity?

 

      There is, apparently, a subordination within the Trinity in regard to order but not substance or essence.  We can see that the Father is first, the Son is second, and the Holy Spirit is third. The Father is not begotten, but the Son is (John 3:16). The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 5:26).  The Father sent the Son (1 John 4:10).  The Son and the Father send the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 15:26).  The Father creates (Isaiah 44:24), the Son redeems (Gal. 3:13), and the Holy Spirit sanctifies (Rom. 15:16).
     This subordination of order does not mean that each of the members of the Godhead are not equal or divine.  For example, we see that the Father sent the Son.  But this does not mean that the Son is not equal to the Father in essence and divine nature.  A wife is to be subject to her husband but this does not negate her humanity, essence, or equality.  By further analogy, a king and his servant both share human nature. Yet, the king sends the servant to do his will.  Jesus said, "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38).   Does this mean that the one sent must, therefore, be of different nature than the one who sent him?  Of course not.

Apparently, there are different versions of the trinity out there, which one is the Truth?

Gregory Thaumaturgus. In his Ekthesis tes pisteos composed between 260 and 270, he writes:

There is therefore nothing created, nothing subject to another in the Trinity: nor is there anything that has been added as though it once had not existed, but had entered afterwards: therefore the Father has never been without the Son, nor the Son without the Spirit: and this same Trinity is immutable and unalterable forever (P. G., X, 986).

As far as the examples of the wife and the King, First the examples use two beings to try to describe one being. How would this work?  In addition, just a few paragraphs up we are told, “God, is a trinity of persons consisting of one substance and one essence.” Wouldn’t this example be closer to CARM’s purpose if it were re-worded to say, “a king and his servant are persons consisting of one substance and one essence..” Now we are getting somewhere, just add another person and we have a true schizophrenic human trinity for our example of the Trinitarian’s God. In addition, if we go back to the original examples of the wife and the king, CARM has only proven that two or more distinct beings CAN share the same nature. CARM still has yet to prove that in the Bible sharing a nature MUST mean the same being.

 

     Critics of the Trinity will see this subordination as proof that the Trinity is false. They reason that if Jesus were truly God, then He would be completely equal to God the Father in all areas and would not, therefore, be subordinate to the Father in any way.  But this objection is not logical.  If we look at the analogy of the king and in the servant we certainly would not say that the servant was not human because he was sent.  Being sent does not negate sameness in essence. Therefore, the fact that the Son is sent does not mean that He is not divine any more than when my wife sends me to get bread, I am not human.

 

Is this confusing? YES!

 

     Another important point about the Trinity is that it can be a difficult concept to grasp.  But this does not necessitate an argument against its validity.  On the contrary, the fact that it is difficult is an argument for its truth.  The Bible is the self revelation of an infinite God.  Therefore, we are bound to encounter concepts which are difficult to understand -- especially when dealing with an incompprehensible God who exists in all places at all times.  So, when we view descriptions and attributes of God manifested in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, we discover that a completely comprehensible and understandable explanation of God's essence and nature is not possible.  What we have, however, done is derive from the Scripture the truths that we can grasp and combine them into the doctrine we call The Trinity.  The Trinity is, to a large extent, a mystery.  After all, we are dealing with God Himself.  
     It is the way of the cults to reduce biblical truth to make God comprehensible and understandable by their minds.  To this end, they subject God's word to their own reasoning and end in error.    

 

CARM must have missed these Scriptures when writing this.

 

Jeremiah 31:34 “34 “And they will no more teach each one his companion and each one his brother, saying, ‘KNOW Jehovah!’ for they will all of them know me, from the least one of them even to the greatest one of them,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “For I shall forgive their error, and their sin I shall remember no more.”

 

John 10:14-15 “14 I am the fine shepherd, and I know my sheep and my sheep know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I surrender my soul in behalf of the sheep.”

 

KNOW  1. To perceive with certainty; to understand clearly; to have a clear and certain perception of truth, fact, or any thing that actually exists.

 

The following verses are often used to demonstrate that in the doctrine of the Trinity is indeed biblical.

I wonder if this masterpiece of mess was written by Matthew J. Slick, the President of CARM.  You know he graduated from Westminster Theological Seminary with a Masters of Divinity. How cool is that! Today in History says, the initials CARM originally meant:

Calling    All   Religious   Morons

 

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