<From: wordlady@ Thursday, May 13, 1999 12:36 PM>

Hi Melody and all

<< have an 8 year old cat with chronic renal failure.  She was diagnosed 2+ years ago and  she remains in early stages of this disease.  I attribute>>
--snip--
<<During her exam and blood test last week, her phosphorus levels came back LOW.  Most CRF kitties have elevated  phosphorus, so this was a surprise. >>
--snip--
<<What can I add to the diet, other than protein, that would improve the phosphorus level?  I prefer>>

I have no experience with CRF cats and diets, but the best sources of phosphorus are milk, cheese, nuts, legumes and grains. Since you don't want to add more protein, maybe substituting some grains for the veggies would help your little gal?

--Jean, Saski Brighteyes & That-Sweetie-Amber
  wordlady@

Hi Melody,

I too am glad your post went to the list.  I notice you add broccoli sometimes, you might add more of the tops (florets) if you
want to add phosphorus.  I was told to only feed CRF kitties the stems as the tops have too much phos.  Some cats like the taste of broccoli, too.  You could also get Ferr Phos Schussler tablets (aka tissue or cell salts) from a hfs.  They provide a good source of iron in anemia, and would add phos.  BTW, they're also good for infection fighting.  There are other phos-based Schussler Salts you could choose from, but I figured most CRF kitties could use help with blood-building.

I'm wondering, though, do you really know that you need to raise the phos level?  What is the drawback of a low one?  It might just be a good cushion if the values start to rise later.  Personally, I would ask the vet the significance of it, and whether it's actually causing some harm.  Unless it is or it's VERY low, I might wait and see what it is on the next bloodwork.  Does anyone know what the side effects of low phos would be?  Didn't someone else on the list mention having that d*g book that tells what all the blood test results mean?  I've got one somewhere, but it's AWOL at the moment....

Laurie and Tribble

Leah K wrote:

<<Hmmmm, I suppose it's certainly feasible that diff. parts of the veggie  contain different nutritional compounds - who told you that the tops have  too much phos...or did you read this  somewhere?   >>

Hi Leah,

Tribble's acupuncturist told us that.  He's a DVM as well.  I haven't been able to verify it, but he said that the flowers themselves are the part that contains the most phos, and I thought it seemed feasible.  He said the other parts are fine, so I just skim off
the very tops for Tribble (or eat the florets and let her have the stems).  Can anyone verify this (we're talking about broccoli, BTW)?

<<According to the information pertaining to phosphorus in that book, it says  that decreased levels could indicate the following: "overactive parathyroid  gland and malignancies that cause the *appearance* of an overactive  parathyroid gland, malnutrition, and malabsorption.">>

thanks for the info.  I knew I could count on you guys to know!

Laurie and Tribble

On Tue, 25 May 1999, Lisa Perreault wrote:
<< Your urine sample should be good for 24 hours in the fridge for most  tests.>>

Actually, we want to read them within 2 hours of collection, and really, voided samples aren't great.  Bacteria are a normal contaminant of the urethra/vagina and might make us believe that the cat has a urinary tract infection when it really doesn't.  (and then recommend antibiotics unecessarily).  Especially if the urine sits in the refridgerator for 24 hours, it can grow from a few insignificant bacteria to enough to make it look like a serious infection.

Cystocentesis (getting urine by needle into the bladder) gives us *much* more accurate pictures of what is going on in the
bladder.  Most cats are much more upset about being restrained than they are the needle, which because of their objections to being restrained, they usually hardly feel!

Susan G. Wynn, DVM CVA

Hi y'all,

Since the subject of teeth cleaning and anesthesia has come up a few times, and I know many of us have sick cats for whom anesthesia can be dangerous, I thought I would forward the following posts from the CRF list.  It was quite eye-opening to me.
All the best,
Laurie and Tribble

Subject:   RE: CRF - teeth cleaning   Date:   Fri, 7 May 1999 21:39:51 -0400
   From:   <CChristian@>

'Scuse me for jumping in here, but you've pressed one of my hot topics.  I'm a people anesthesiologist and we have a 12 year old Tonkinese, Mikki, who has been in compensated renal failure for 18 months, now (Bun 45, Creat. 4). Humans in renal failure tolerate anesthetics poorly and the same holds true for cats.  Isoflurane is the best choice, however it's not eliminated instantly, but it has the least depressive effect on the heart.  Most morbidity come from too low a blood pressure  and too low a blood
pressure during anesthesia.  You control anesthetic depth by monitoring the blood pressure.  If you wait 'till you can hear a change in heart sounds you are too deep and in the danger zone!!  You must MEASURE blood pressure during anesthesia not estimate it by heart sounds.  You must also carefully monitor temperature because a small patient Cat or human, loses heat rapidly under an anesthetic.  You need a American College of Veterinary Anesthesiologists http://www.acva.org/ Board Certified Anesthesiologist to safely sleep your kitty.  These specialists who have a 4 or 5 year training program AFTER vet school are usually only available at vet schools.

In the usual private vet practice the animal is anesthetized, intubated and just sorta left there with the vet listening to heart rate, not even heart sounds, while he really pays attention to the surgery, not the anesthetic. Most healthy animals or humans for that matter can tolerate this, but it is dangerous for CRF kitties.  That's where the horror stories come from.  This is not a condemnation of private vets, they just cannot afford a specialist of this caliber.

At the North Carolina State College of Veterinary Medicine, a Board Certified Anesthesiologist supervises the anesthesia while a Board Certified Small Animal Surgeon supervises the surgery.  Mikki and his best buddies Chess (severe hypertension no CRF) and Patches (Mast cell tumor) have been anesthetized there several times with no deleterious effects.  Chess' surgery was cut short because his temperature began to drop.  Private vets don't usually monitor temperature during anesthesia.  This is the only
safe way to go with a sick or elderly Kitty....check the ACVA web site above; they have a complete listing of all their Board Certified Vet Anesthesiologists by location.... But remember I am NOT a vet and don't have all their training about
animal medicine