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Reference: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2005-02/1107793760

Origins of R1a1 (M17)

As per Mr. David F

For me and for Toomas Kivsild, South Asia is logically the ultimate origin of M17 and his ancestors; and sure enough we find the highest rates and greatest diversity of the M17 line in Pakistan, India, and eastern Iran, and low rates in the Caucasus. M17 is not only more diverse in South Asia than in Central Asia, but diversity characterizes hits presence in isolated tribal groups in the south, thus undermining any theory of M17 as a marker of a 'male Aryan invasion' of India. One average estimate for the origin of this line in India is as much as 51,000 years. All this suggests that M17 could have found his way initially from India or Pakistan, through Kashmir, then via Central Asia and Russia, before finally coming into Europe".

This statement, with which I entirely agree, is in direct competition with the views of Wells in his book, "The Journey of Man" where he has M17 as emerging in Europe and migrating to the east into Central Asia and ultimately bringing the Indo - European language into India. He also maintains that the highest diversity of M17 is in the Ukraine, thus bolstering his argument. This latter argument simply cannot be supported based on the databases to which I have access. There is extremely low diversity in the Ukraine and adjacent areas, as well as eastern Central Asia. However the R1a1 (M17) diversity in Pakistan is immense - precisely as Oppenheimer has said.

As per Mr. Dienekes Pontikos

The Cordaux analyzed the most extensive dataset of Indian caste and tribal Y-chromosomes to date. They find that caste and tribal groups differ significantly in their haplogroup frequency distributions; caste groups are homogeneous for Y chromosome variation and more closely related to each other and to central Asian groups than to Indian tribal or any other Eurasian groups. The authors conclude that paternal lineages of Indian caste groups are primarily descended from Indo-European speakers who migrated from central Asia 3500 years ago. Conversely, paternal lineages of tribal groups are predominantly derived from the original Indian gene pool. The Cordaux also provide evidence for bi-directional male gene flow between caste and tribal groups. In comparison, caste and tribal groups are homogeneous with respect to mitochondrial DNA variation [5], which may reflect the sociocultural characteristics of the Indian caste society."

As per Mr. Ellen Coffman

If R1a rose in India or nearby Pakistan, let's say anywhere from 8000-10000 BC, then after such a long time span, it should be spread throughout ALL the populations of the area. In other words, if its indigenous to the area, then we would find its presence among all Indian groups, except perhaps among later migratory groups that did not admix with the native R1a inhabitants. However, this doesn't seem to be the case with R1a in India. It appears that its distribution is somewhat restricted among Indian populations and there are much lower findings in southern tribal groups that are Dravidian speakers.

Further, researchers (linguistics & archaeologists) associate the caste populations of India with the Indo-Iranians of Central Asia – they spoke a similar language (Indo-European from the Indo-Iranian sub-group of languages) and shared many cultural/ethnic traits.

I suppose this is the debatable part: Many researchers apparently believe these Indo-Iranians were R1a (yes, I know they were probably a heterogeneous mix of haplogroups including varying percentages of I, R1b & J, but R1a is believed to have predominated). This seems to be borne out by the few DNA studies that have been performed on archaeological remains, such as the Tarim Basin Mummies. The Tarim Basin people are believed to have spoken either Tocharian or another related Indo-Iranian language.

As far as I can tell, to date, there are no studies indicating a movement (through haplogroup distribution) of R1a from Pakistan/India into Central Asia and hence, into the Ukraine. Rather, the studies seem to indicate that the Indo-Iranians moved from northern Central Asia around the Caspian & over the Iranian plateau into Iran and into the northern part of Indian. They also appear to have moved eastward - hence, we find them in Mongolia as the Tarim Basin people.

Is this also your understanding of the migration pattern of the Indo Iranian peoples?

As per Mr. Malcolm Dodd

"In Y chromosome sequence variation and the history of human populations", Underhill and others use an average of 6,900 years for NRY diversity and a date of 44,000 years BP for the age of M168.

M168 /P9 at 44,000 YEARS BP is upstream of
M89/ M213/P14 which is upstream of
M9 which is upstream of
M45/M74/P27 which is upstream of
M207 which is upstream of
M173 which is upstream of
SRY10931.2 which is upstream of
M17 An age of 51,000 BP for M17 does not seem to correlate with 44,000 years BP for M168/P9