INTRODUCTION This is some extra hints and other information for the Playstation game "Beyond the Beyond" (BtB). There's a really good walkthrough out there, I have version 2.6, so I'll just put in stuff here that isn't there. Got it? And although you can name the main character, I'll use Finn here. GRAPHICS I've seen a lot of complaining about the graphics in this game, but I played BtB after Suikoden, and I actually like the battle graphics in BtB more. The view is full 360 (Suikoden is limited to back 180), you can sort of control it with L2 at any time (Suikoden requires a second controller and the Binoculars), character and monster sprites have 2 real angles (looks like 4 but uses mirror images, Suikoden has only 1). The interior graphics are better in Suikoden (apparently hand-drawn versus tiles in BtB), and the outdoor terrain is almost a wash. There are noticeable layers in the Suikoden outdoor terrain (see the "hole" south of Kwaba) but it is obviously hand-drawn, and the BtB terrain is true 3D but limited in colors and textures (and I've spotted a few glitches). If I had one request of the people doing the BtB interface, it would be that MP be displayed during combat. AUTO-COMBAT I left the Tactics on Manual for most of the game. That let me set up concentrating on enemy spellcasters first, if they weren't the first (default target) enemy group. I found that Reserve would sometimes use Heal items, sometimes wastefully, if any character was down any amount of VP. So, I only use Reserve against wimpy monsters when all characters are at full VP. You should fight bosses in Manual, because you'll be using items and throwing spells galore. Try a boss combat in another mode to see how you do. ACTIVE PLAYING SYSTEM In my experience, the way to get specials during combat is to press the X button a lot. The exact moment or number of presses varies for each character and situation (attacking, defending, recovering). When you hear a "kriing" or "kaching" sound, something special is about to happen. Characters sometimes do special moves without your input, but not very often. Monsters can block or do special attacks as well. One guy said: hold the left or right key, and then tap the X key to get the moves to work. You hold the right and tap the X key rapidly to get Annie's fire attack, and I believe left and a moderate tempo for Lorele's double attack. Another guy said: to increase your chances of blocking or counter-attacking an opponent's attack, press O repeatedly when your opponent is getting ready to attack you. for a double deadly attack, press Right + X repeatedly as fast as you can until you hear a "kriiing" sound. Another guy said: increase likelihood of good attacks by hitting the top right (triangle?) button rapidly 4-6 times before each attack. NOTHING HAPPENS Strangely, if anyone tries to cast a Heal to help out another character that is at 0 VP (GROGGY), nothing happens. If any spellcaster targets a spell at a particular group, and all of that group are killed before the spellcaster's turn, then nothing happens, and the spellcaster "just stands around". You can try to use some items during combat, and if they don't do anything, you don't use up your turn. When all monsters are killed, all remaining character actions are cancelled. AMBUSH It doesn't happen too often, but sometimes one side gets to ambush the other at the start of combat. That's basically a free attack, although madly pressing the X button sometimes lets you GUARD if you are being ambushed. Strangely, the chance of both being ambushed and getting to ambush are much higher for really wimpy monsters (compared to character level). TOO MANY ITEMS If you're being careful about using items, you may end with full inventories on all your characters. This may cause problems when you a) open a chest (but the game tells you what the item is, so this actually isn't a problem); b) receive a special item (the game FORCES Finn to drop an item if his inventory is full). If all characters' inventories are full, you just don't get any items from monsters after combat. Once you successfully take back all of Marion, you can start storing items in the storage chest in Isla again. I never ran into a limit on number of items stored there. While you may think you are getting a lot of items from monsters at the beginning of the game, towards the end you get fewer and fewer, although the Dragon Claw can be a nice one to get for Lorele. MONSTER DIFFICULTY There is no direct control over how difficult the monsters are, compared to the characters, except for what region of the world or level of a dungeon you are in. The only place so far where I've seen the monsters change has been in the sewers under Zalagoon: one set when you're getting Samson and Edward, a second set when you come back after removing Samson's curse. Since the game doesn't discount experience as you increase level, you can always take the cheap way and beat up hordes of wimpy monsters if you can't handle the tough ones next door. Remember that you can (usually) Run from combat. But if all the characters fail at trying to run, you suffer free attacks from the monsters - which could be extremely painful. In practice, taking on only those combats where you can kill all the monsters before they can attack will still let you advance reasonably quickly. SAMSON'S CURSE The three effects of the curse are: 1. Samson can't prove who he is in Zalagoon, forcing you to break the curse before you can advance the story there again. 2. Sometimes (about 1/4 of the time), Samson will just not move on his turn in combat. Since he's usually attacking, nothing happens, but it can affect other actions as well. 3. When an attack does damage, Samson may (about 1/4 of the time) take 1/4 of the damage himself. Pressing X doesn't seem to affect this, but it seems killing a monster with that blow makes it happen less often. You will be very happy when Samson doesn't have this curse anymore, as you will often take no damage in combat except for Samson doing it to himself. Once you have the Tempest Ring (found somewhere before you lift the curse), you can change somebody's Speed enough to alter the order of attacks. It's a good idea to delay when Samson attacks, just to avoid him taking damage. Same thing goes for any Source of Agility items you may find. When the curse is gone, Samson will be your second-best fighter after Finn, until you have more than 5 characters and can choose who you want to develop. RAINBOW VALLEY The puzzle here is the "chain heads", which pull you across. In some cases you want to avoid them by walking as far as possible from them, such as when you are going for one treasure chest. There's one place where it looks like the head doesn't work, but its just that the graphics don't make it clear that it is on another level of terrain. In this and other puzzles, there are some shortcuts that are there apparently only to make it easier to get out. GETTING TONT Annoyingly, you must be BELOW the Summoner when you Use the Magic Emerald. Standing to his right won't do it. By the way, even at Level 40 upgraded, Tont didn't get any level 3 summon spells, so "Tolle 3"? BUY A BOAT? Since the most money you can have is 99,999 there is no way you can buy that boat in Luna for 1 million. Just forget about it. Although you can put over 100,000 in the storage chest, you can't take out and keep more than 99,999. If you have maximum money, don't fret about selling excess equipment or items. The "sell an equipped ring" bug was not present in my copy. But the "mysterious vase" business still worked, although it was tedious. Make sure you don't give up the Moon Crescent until you have bought the best possible equipment from the shop in "night" Luna. MOVING HEADS The puzzle in the Gaea "temple" is that sometimes a stone head will follow you around until you walk over a special square that has a picture of a stone head on it. This is particulary difficult on the next-to-last level, because one head follows you as soon as you come up the stairs, and another one does so when you go for the stairs up. With the restricted visibility on these levels, these are rather annoying. Rather than step on the glowing purple things, which cost each character 5 MP, jump down a hole and start over if you have a choice. RESTORING MP Around this time you may want to start carrying around some Mage's Potions or Mage's Jewels, if you use a lot of MP (cast a lot of spells) while doing what needs to be done. I have two possible solutions for you: 1. the Steal L1 spell, which Annie and Tont learn; and 2. being able to Run instead of "wasting" spells in tough fights. #1 only helps out at most two of your characters (both of which I think should stay in the adventuring party at all times), but does nothing for the other 3. #2 is a philosophy - if you are willing to get experience on the cheap, then stay away from fights where the monsters have an advantage over you. DAY AND NIGHT The Day and Night puzzle in Arawn's Tower isn't tough. It's finding out what to do when you realize you're stuck, and (if you found it) don't know where to use the Hammer, that drives you crazy. Look for a crack in the floor near a "dead end" on an "outside" screen. Since the Hammer doesn't go away, is there a use for it later? ARAWN The "god's assistant" mentioned several times in the walkthrough is actually Arawn. When you get to the end of Arawn's Tower, you walk into a room with 3 gems on the north wall. The left gem restores all VP, the right one restores all MP. Search the middle one to get "all dead characters resurrected" followed by the appearance of Arawn. While talking to Arawn, he supposedly shows you the view from the top of the tower, but it isn't much different from the usual. If it had really showed you a large portion of the world, it would have been awesome. LIFTING THE CURSE When Samson's curse is broken/lifted, the only change is that Samson is no longer cursed. That's it. No improvements to Samson of any kind other than that he no longer has curse effects in combat. Restoring him to level 15 would have been bad, because in my case he was at level 21 at the time. MUSIC BOX One "optional" item is the Music Box, which you can get from the left table in the bedroom in Zalagoon Castle where all the characters sleep after fighting Glade. Use the Music Box to select one of 46 songs to play. Is there a combat use for this? LIGHT ORBS One tricky thing about using a Light Orb is that your characters have to be "outside" to teleport. I strongly suggest leaving somebody in Barbaros Castle if you can, because it's a real pain to get to otherwise. Steiner and the Floating Palace will follow you when you teleport, except for Barbaros Castle and Quamdar. BACK TO MARION The way to get back to Marion from Zalagoon is to go to the dungeon entrance to the extreme NW from Zalagoon. Explore it completely to find not only a ruined house with a locked chest and two tombstones, but also a one-way route around the sleeping dragon. In case you find yourself on the other side of the dragon, go back up and fall through the hole. Now walk to the edge that looks different, and you will slide down (somebody posted that they couldn't figure this out). To get back to Zalagoon at this point, go back through the two tree puzzles. I actually went through this 3 times, trying to get that one chest in the second tree. Turns out you can get to it ONLY if you use the SW hole on the level above. It's a Source of Life, so I'd say it's worth the trip, and the monsters are really wimpy compared to you. If you go back to the "broken portcullis" before you defeat Glade, it's still closed. GLADE Glade is one of those nasties that can attack more than once per round of combat. You'll eventually run into several types of monsters that can do this, not to mention almost all of the bosses I can recall. The decision you have to make is, do you use up spells trying to Silence spellcasters with more than one attack, or use that chance to hit them, either by spell or item or weapon? ZALAGOON TREASURE For some reason, the stuff you can find in Zalagoon after defeating Glade (except for the Ring of Power) isn't better than what you have at the time, or can buy in the store. Feh. Throughout the game, the stuff in treasure chests is either a unique item that's really neat, or something useless you already can buy or have a bunch of. Same thing for searching all over. No middle ground. Some of the items aren't usable until you have the right characters, and/or you "upgrade" the characters. Keep those things unless you want to sell the cursed items. Getting more than 99,999 gold isn't too difficult towards the end of the game, but pointless unless you store some of it in the storage chest in Isla. MARION TREASURE The 3 chests in the room in Marion Castle are accessible only after you chase the soldiers all the way to the end. Looks like the Bandore people looted the 6 chests in the basement. WHAT IF #1 What if you don't want to go to Bandore when Galahad asks you? I didn't try answering it that way, did you? BANDORE It's a long walk to Bandore from Marion, but it's the only place you can go. Look at the map in the manual to find Bandore. Search the city for a Unicorn Horn. Pay attention to where the kid goes to get through the wall. Kill the first Bandore soldier you meet to get the Chain Key. Unfortunately, I was full-up on items when I got onto Domino's ship, so I don't know what I missed by not searching, and it seems you only get this one chance to do so. Talk to Domino, and he'll join your party and give you the ship, and you'll never be able to search it again. Use the ship to get to all 4 tiny shrine (Ancient Tablet) islands, Discipline Island, Merlin's cave, and Barbaros (I scouted out the correct route with Steiner first). You can also use the ship to get to Mistrall (north side of continent west of Marion), Leave (SE corner of Barbaros), and the Fifth Island (SW of Barbaros). SHRINE OF DISCIPLINE The puzzle in the challenge centers on those colored patterns. Unless you have really good pattern memory, draw them on paper from the ground floor. Luckily, there are no monsters on the upper level. Make sure you get all (3?) chests from here. I think the Mystic Sword one is the only one necessary though. Prepare Finn for this one by removing items not useful for healing or fighting (the Steel Key, Gold Key, any Ancient Tablets or other equipment) - use the storage chest in Isla! Personally, I had Finn Run instead of Fight here, and don't waste time wandering around the first level except to make drawings of the patterns. They're repeated on the north end in case you fall. Step on a colored symbol to change to that pattern and momentarily show it. It will stay in effect until you step on another symbol. Step wrong and you can fall down to the first level. Doesn't hurt, just wastes time and takes the chance of monsters. You can open chests anytime you are standing adjacent, the pattern doesn't have to support the chest. Find the Mystic Sword (or all 3 chests?) to finish. Only characters at 20th level or higher can upgrade. Your "upgrade" will change the characters' class name, set them down to Level 1, but not change their hard-won statistics. The benefits are: 1. experience needed per level goes down to about 6500 at first (instead of over 12000 at level 30+), so you advance quicker for a while. 2. some equipment items that apparently nobody could use are open to upgraded characters only, so shop the stores again and check what you put away in the storage chest too (see CURSED ITEMS below). 3. Steiner isn't little anymore, he can fly you around (we don't need no steenkeen boats no more!) so you avoid the encounters you'd get while walking or on ship, and Finn's "Steiner" spell is a hefty blast of fire for 9 MP. press X under Steiner to board, arrows to fly around (can't pass high mountains), press X to land (can't land on woods or mountains or rough or buildings). 4. Finn's level is shown in gold when you save or restore. 5. One character can learn Resurrect 1 from Merlin. I agree with one person who thinks that Annie is not the best choice for this, I think whoever has the highest VP of Edward or Tont. 6. One bad thing is that you can't use the bed in Isla anymore. 7. Another is that you don't get free healing in Merlin's cave either. Personally, I upgraded before I went to Barbaros. Unfortunately, that way I missed seeing Lorele's little scene. ICE DUNGEON The trick to getting to the stairs down on the 2nd level is to start at the southernmost piece of ice. To get to the Flint Stone chest, backtrack from that ice slide, and figure out where you have to start from to get there. FIFTH ISLAND I didn't check the walkthrough when I got to Quamdar, and finally had to consult it to figure out where the Final Tablet was. You need it to open the doors in the Abyss Temple in Quamdar. If you approach the Fifth Island from the south (I noticed this in the Flying Palace, may not occur for ship or Steiner), the shrine in the middle of the island doesn't appear until you are very close! If you got to Quamdar already, the Magic Staff isn't as good as what Edward buys there. But the Seraphic Ring is pretty good, although it's only for Annie. After beating Dagoot, walk through the west wall near the northwest corner, and wander around in the dark until you are just east of the room with the chest, then head west. If you follow the path in the dark, you end up south of the room and can never get in. CURSED ITEMS You will find quite a few items (mostly hidden) in the game that are not available in the stores (at least those stores you can get to at the time). Many of these can't be used by any characters until you "upgrade" at the Shrine of Discipline. Among these are cursed (just like Samson's curse, but you can pay a priest to remove them) items, mostly armor. While many of them are better armor than you may currently have, the curse isn't worth it. My list of verified bad things so far is: Evil Scale [Finn], Chaos Shield [Finn], Robe of Darkness [Annie], Death Hood [Edward or Tont], Cursed Bandanna [Domino], Demon's Leather [Domino], Devil Ribbon [Annie], Demon's Gauntlet [Samson], Cursed Scarf [Lorele], Evil Armor [Samson, found in Zeal], Shadow Gi [Lorele, found in Annoying Cave], Demon's Axe [Samson, found in Annoying Cave], Poisoned Fang [Domino, found in Abyss Temple before Final Tablet door], Malicious Rod [Annie & Tont & Edward, Abyss Temple chest] If you sold or discarded any of these, oh well... Some good items are found once, then are available in a store later. I have never seen any cursed items for sale in a store. Some of the good items I found were: Drain Rod [Edward or Tont, found in Zeal], Gimry's Axe [Samson, found in Ice Dungeon], Storm Bandanna [Domino, found in Ice Dungeon], Dagger [Domino, found in Ice Dungeon], Mystic Dagger [Domino, found in Annoying Cave, sold in Quamdar], Gundalf Hood [Edward, found in Quamdar], Magic Staff [Edward, in a lamp in Fifth Island top level], Dragon Blade [Finn, Sleeping Dragon Cave chest in house, need the Skeleton Key, Finn's best weapon], Seraphic Ring [Annie, found in Fifth Island bottom level chest], Mystic Shield [Finn, Abyss Temple "good" statue], Hero Scale [Finn, Abyss Temple chest], Demon's Fist [Lorele, Abyss Temple chest], Dragon Claw [Lorele, rare booty from a Red Dragon] *** The Demon's Fist is NOT cursed, and better than the Dragon Claw. *** The Dragon Claw is the only piece of equipment I've ever seen as booty from a monster. ABYSS TEMPLE You have to Item/Use the Orb of Light on the Statue of Light from the South, or nothing happens. Ditto for the Orb of Darkness. Bet you didn't know that a Necromancer will rarely cast Void! Losing 3 characters, including Annie (who knew Resurrect), to one spell was the worst single thing that ever happened to me in this game. I took the walkthrough's advice, and got out after each orb. I also roughly mapped all the levels so I knew how to get around. Better get everybody a Resist Jewel before you try to end the game! CHARACTERS AVAILABLE The characters you can have (maximum 5 in party) are: Finn - at start. very powerful fighter and minor spellcaster. must be in party. should always be in front rank. (small Steiner - not really a character, but with Finn at start) Annie - have to rescue her from Kraken in first cave. decent fighter with high speed, best healer. rank position depends on relative attack and defense. I kept her until the end. Percy - decent fighter who you get after finishing first cave, story forces you to leave behind after Border Church, returns much later as Black Knight. should be in front rank when present. When he returns, Percy will have the same equipment he had when he left, and will already be upgraded. I didn't use him much, had to buy all new equipment before any use in combat. Samson - solely a fighter, initially cursed, later not, second-best compared to Finn. tends to lag behind the others in levels. keep in front rank, try to have low relative speed when cursed. story makes you get Samson and Edward when Marion conquered, Samson's curse drives the story until you defeat Glade, both leave temporarily after finishing defeat of Bandore in Marion until you cross the bridge to Bandore. Edward - wimpy fighter, great spellcaster. should usually be in back rank depending on relative attack and defense. so far inseparable from Samson in the story. I kept him for the end. Tont - pitiful fighter, useful "summoning" spellcaster. semi-hidden since you must take Magic Emerald to summoner in Simone, then try to leave the town. lags behind Finn & Annie & Samson & Edward in levels and starts from level 1, but he's your first chance to have 5 characters. I kept him for the end. Domino - decent fighter, some spells, shows up when you see the Emperor of Bandore get blowed up, and gives you his ship. Your first guaranteed 5th character, and first chance to have 6 if you got Tont already. uses throwing weapons. strange that the people in the towns who talk about Domino don't notice this famous pirate in your party. Lorelei - a monk who starts on level 19 with Heal Lvl2, Holy Light Lvl2, Defence Lvl1, Slow Lvl1, Wind Lvl2, and Sleep Lvl1. hidden in Bandore Castle. I kept her for the end, but she was definitely the weakest of my "final 5". I strongly suggest arranging your characters in the front or back rank according to their Defense values, then by Speed. Check after somebody gains a level or you get new equipment. I eventually settled on using Finn, Annie, Tont, Edward, and Lorele at the end of the game. Samson is a good fighter, but has no magic. Percy and Domino didn't have the wide selection of both attack and healing spells that Lorele gets. If I had to do it over again, I would have given Lorele or Tont the Resurrect spell, and not built up the optional characters I didn't use at the end. BOSSES Here's a list of all the bosses I remember: Ramue and friends (only if you go south at the Venus puzzle) - you WILL lose unless you have bulked up the characters to ridiculous levels before entering the Border Church, so just go solve the puzzle. Water Demon (top of Gaea temple) - use fire spells? Bandore soldiers (blocking dungeon, from Simone side) - not really a boss, but really tough! Bandore soldiers (Marion side of Zalagoon bridge) - 2 encounters, like the above but more so. You will meet more of these guys in Marion Castle, so get used to them! Glade - goes twice per turn, I suggest Edward do a Silence each turn even though it usually misses. Ramue's parting gift (Marion Castle, after putting mask on Percy) - not really a boss, actually rather easy compared to the Bandore soldiers you encounter elsewhere in the castle. Black Knight - throw Silence at him, otherwise Defend, and wait for him to run away. that evil helmet must be pretty good, to let him cast spells Percy doesn't have, lose 20 Mana to Steal, and take 185 VP (Annie counterattacked twice, sorry). Dagoot (& Necromancer & Lich) - goes twice per round, will throw Wind 3 a lot unless Silenced. appears when you reach bottom level of the Fifth Island (Final Tablet) Yeon (& 2 monsters who should be gone in first round) - goes twice per round, will throw Thunder 3 or Thunder 1 or Heal Rain (on self) unless Silenced (was never able to). appears when you enter Abyss Temple with Final Tablet. Shutat & Ramue - both twice per round, only do 1 damage to Finn with weapons, Firedrake & Titan were a bother final boss Akkadias - 2 per round, mostly does Summons, although "tongue" attack did 10-14 damage to Finn WHAT IF #2 If you answer "Yes" to Shutat, then "No" from then on, Finn gets to fight Shutat and Ramue ALONE! And then Akkadias ALONE! Believe it or not, I was able to win, although Finn ran out of MP and items early on, but having 108 VP and 81 LP to start with made it possible to beat them all. Try it for a challenge! (I was pressing the X button as fast as I could for about 20 minutes to get specials galore) STUFF TO DO Locked chests (for which you need the Skeleton Key): 1. in ruined house, cave of sleeping dragon, enter from NW of Zalagoon - Dragon Blade for Finn 2. in Bandore, upper floor of the Inn - Mystic Gi for Lorele 3. in Bandore, in a dungeon cell in the castle - Reviving Herb 4. in Simone treehouse, floor above bottom - Tornado Vase Somebody complained about the land creatures attacking you while you are sailing around on your ship. Well, in some cases I agree because there are places where land creatures do appear. But mostly the monsters on the ship are flyers, undead, or water. Somebody complained that you can't go back in to the "upper levels" (?) of the pyramid (Arawn's Temple/Tower?) to "clear it out". This makes no sense to me, because I was able to get back in to figure out what the 3 gems did. However, if they are talking about the Flying Pyramid, then I did notice what might have been a chest that I missed, but I never got a chance to go back for it. Bummer. I wonder if the Japanese version of BtB was hentai, because there are several mentions of what could be sexy picture books, and the girl who asks you to visit her after you upgrade seems to have something in mind. Sorry, even if you learn the Resurrection spell from Merlin, you can't cast it on any of the tombstones. Apparently you can never open that jar in Galahad's basement (near the Storage Chest). Why does the Silence Orb asks you to select a character when you Use? Note that most attack spells are: 1=one group or one monster, 2=one group or all monsters, 3=all monsters, 4=one monster or group. For some levels, the MP cost is the same as another, but the target(s) are different. Just be careful, or you'll waste MP. I mentioned the Steal spell above - it costs 0 MP, may take 10 MP from an enemy and add it to the caster. It works only about 1 time in 4 to 10 tries though, depending on the type of enemy. Since bosses seem to have limited MP (I've seen them stop casting spells in long fights), the Steal spell can be very useful in boss fights, as well as long trips through dungeons. I got Finn up to level 42 upgraded in my game, and Annie was 43. Most damage I ever saw Finn (the best fighter) do was 198. No idea what the limits in the game might be, but the highest level any spell got to was 4. All characters can learn at most 8 spells normally, with one slot left open for the one Resurrect spell in the party. Note that on page 43 of the manual, there is a screen shot with Japanese text showing one character (Finn probably) with 166 VP and 79 LP, in combat, with nobody else in the party. Unverified stuff from off the 'net: Bonus party members and items: Hold Right and press Circle, Triangle, X , Square, X, Triangle, Circle, X, Circle, Square, Start when "Press Start" appears during the opening sequence. APS (Active Playing System) Your characters may be able to perform special attacks by pressing special button sequences. The only reliable one is rapidly pushing X either: Before a character is about to attack (resulting in a double attack) Before a monster is about to attack (resulting in a guard or counterattack) Before a character recovers from grogginess (resulting in gaining more VP). Another suggestion is to hit X repeatedly while either holding Up or Down. Holding Up when a blue diamond appears results in the double attack and Down when the diamond is gold results in the super attack. More on APS: Hold left or right, and press X to get "moves." Hold Right and press X rapidly to get Annie's fire attack. Hold Left and press X moderately to get Lorele's double attack. Peter Karsanow p.karsanow[AT}sbcglobal{DOT)net http://www.geocities.com/hentaihelper/p_rpgame.htm