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| Author | Topic: WELCOME TO CHAPEL PERILOUS |
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Harla Quinn (Moderator) |
posted 3/8/01 6:10 AM
Now that we have the original template utilized by the I&OH architects, have a fairly broad understanding of "jamming the noise ratio", and can appreciate that "higher intelligences" come in all sizes and flavors just like our favorite brand of prophylactic, the next transcendent layer of gloss applied is found within Robert Anton Wilson's "Cosmic Trigger". Here lies the "key" (or "keys" as we shall soon see) to understanding the entire palimpsest structure. To say that Incunabula and Ong's Hat is an "experiment" or even an experiment in reality architecture is a gross understatement and only a part of its quantum equation. It is "model" in metaprogramming, i.e., a memetic process of "deliberately induced brain change" to quote RAW; a process developed from a long history of initiatory practices derived from sources as diverse as Sufism, western hermetic traditions, behavioral psychology and consciousness studies. It is the "open conspiracy" as defined by Pauwels and Bergier in Le Matin de Magiciens, "The Morning of the Magicians", the transmutation of matter and the human mind. Or perhaps, the "transubstantiation of matter"? http://www.incunabula.org |
| Pahana |
posted 3/8/01 7:23 AM
OK, I'll take the hook (tzaddi?)... Theres been some interesting thoughts discussed here. I feel they show promise for development. Nevertheless, from my historical understanding of the mysteries, alchemy, and the figures involved (not just Dee), there are some problems that should be addressed. I will hopefully be posting tonight (before my week or so without internet at home) some extracts from Eliade linking tantrism to Incunabula, and showing the link between tantrism and Islam. My hypothesis is that theres been a lot of attempts, both intentional and unintentional by the self professed 'Illuminati' Crowd (Hyatt, RAW, Bey et al), to bring about the death of knowledge of the Mysteries and the truths of the various world religions through their campaign against New Age flakeyness et al. As a preliminary example, consider Hyatt's exposition on Tantra and compare it to Eliade's scholarly examination of it. Hyatt's book in the light of 'Yoga and Tantrism' (Eliade, 'Yoga: Immortality and Freedom', hard back edition) shows an extremely biased view of Tantra, and one that is not entirely historically accurate on examination of the facts. 142=7. |
| Pahana |
posted 3/8/01 11:59 AM
Part I THE ILLUMINATI CONSPIRACY SHATTERING MODERN MYTHS REGARDING THE OCCULT TRADITION. by Pahana. The occult traditions of the four primary groups (Western, Eastern, Aboriginal and Indian) have been the cornerstone of our very culture for a long time. Despite the claims to the contrary by many renegade writers that thinking outside the parameters of our culture is the basis for change, this is not really the case. For it becomes obvious once you examine a culture closely that there is an exoteric culture and and esoteric culture, always separate but interacting. This esoteric tradition, often driven close to the point of extinction by exoteric culture, is continually being transmitted, master to disciple, in a way that allows the continuation of lineage. But recent activities in the sphere of popular culture and 'religion' have been showing a much more threatening edge. While counter culture is the voice of a new generation of 'spiritual' people, aspects of it are moving to wipe the old teachings off the face of the Earth, or if not, to at least push it a few layers down underneath a confusion of incorrect ideas. An examination of the modern Tantrik scene will suffice to demonstrate an example of this. Today's 'tantrik masters' are little more than frauds and shysters. Primarily teachings today considered tantric are sex (and masturbation!) without male ejaculation, the Microcosmic Orbit and other techniques of Mantak Chia. While such teachings might constitute valuable teachings on retaining energy, they are not the original science of tantra. Neither are the ideas of Hyatt, primarily ritualised sex or masturbation combined with the routine transgression of social taboos and release of artificial morality, strictly tantric techniques. Even the standard explanations of the seven chakras and how the kundalini 'awakens' are not true tantra. For even the best explanations of this in New Age literature are merely more inane bullshit aimed at selling books, or popularising the Theosophical Buddhism of yesteryear. Those who consider the historical and sociological texts of the culture of India, and those who have lived with yogins for some time... these texts reveal something of the true essence of Tantrism. The multitude of different sects, Indian attitudes to sex and love, the development of Buddhism... there are many aspects which once considered leave the reader impressed that this is indeed a culture who has very definite practical ideas about the development of magical abilities. Consider for example the technique known as dharana. In the final stages of meditation, upon an object (or the self), the will becomes so focussed that there is nothing that can distract the meditation. All consciousness is directed towards apprehension of the object of the meditation. Consider now the physiological effects of the thoughts on the body and the brain. Consider also the changes brought about in the body as a result of prolonged concentration on the object. Also, the immobility of the thought breath and semen. Try to find any modern manuscripts which state openly the true purpose of most tantric activities - acheivement of unity of consciousness through the tension inherent in the sexual act, coupled with Buddhist techniques of meditation and metaphysics. Hatha Yoga is a major component of most tantric groups. A healthy body is important in order to command abilities such as this. Yet Hatha Yoga and our modern ideas of physical fitness are different. Most books on tantric subjects these days neglect to even mention hatha yoga. This failure of most modern literature to deal with even the most simple of things such as a history or general theory of tantra shows the state to which most of the mysteries have been degraded in the current day. In an era where even words such as 'yab-yum' are co-opted, let us remind ourselves that what we are trying to acheive is not mediocrity! We can also apply this tradition to Western alchemy. Consider how many people today continuously exhort that alchemy is a 'spiritual art aimed at mental transformation' and deny its material side. When one penetrates far enough to see that real physical substances are involved in certain types of alchemy - for example iron ore, ethyl alcohol and acids - might one not begin to suspect some form of conspiracy afoot to turn people away from the truth? Hakim Bey also speaks to a popular aspect of culture with his image of the rebel Sufi drinking wine or transgressing law. But does he know of the fact that the primary Sufic and Islamic tradition is dhikr - a form of meditational prayer designed to produce similar effects to the Buddhist dharana or kundalini awakening? Or that Islam was the major factor in creating the traditional Western world with its astronomy, music, arts and sciences? With its special method of rule, Islam single handedly was responsible for bringing many disparate tribes across Europe together into what could truly be called a 'civilisation' (the one thing that seems to be most abhorred by Bey). This is conveniently forgotten as Bey uses Sufi and Islamic words - Ta'wil, for example - to claim that the majority of what our society stands on today is ashes. It is my belief that only part of the move toward the technological age, the 'New Age' and so on that is occurring today is squashing the ancient traditions accidentally. There are many powerful corporate interests developing the products of the future as we speak. One only has to examine slashdot.org for example, to see the continuous fight of the underdog against more and more rules the techno-elite are moving to put on us. CPRM, the insidious new copy protection for hard drives, and devices permanently connected to the Internet - all these are a move towards a time when we will all be as consumers, mindless. Animals. Renting Microsoft Car(TM) to telecommute to work, and Intel GYM(R) to keep fit - maybe. Some people have reasons to squash the old traditions. The old traditions represent power to realise self individuation and freedom. So perhaps some people decide to steer certain authors to say certain things... or push certain books that sell a particular image... oh yeah - ever wonder why most of the old books regarding the occult tradition that are any good can only be bought second hand in obscure bookshops? The ultimate truth that it all comes down to is that its up to the individual to search for his own answers - and the more original or old the sources, the better. Knowledge and power to freely express who we are should be goals. Remember Max Theon, Grand Master of the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor, had for his event goal nothing less than human immortality. With documents such as Incunabula as indications of the potential of the human psyche, I'm sure we could do better. 08/03/2001. |
| Pahana |
posted 3/8/01 12:03 AM
And now, I'm off to finish packing for my move to the long awaited new apartment. While financially it will be a stress, I think the social aspect of it - the freedom to be who I really am and not be continually criticised for it - will be a relief. I won't have a lot of time to post until late next week probably. Wish me luck. When I get back, I'll add some quotes from Eliade's text on Tantrism. I think a number of them are very apropos our discussion on Incunabula. |
| dante |
posted 3/8/01 6:28 PM
Interesting Post Pahana, I was with you until the last paragraph... ...what drives the dissolution of old paradigms? ...what drives the lack of interest in ancient mysteries? ...The same things that put absolute crap on television and terrible leaders in office... ...all of us. The conspiracy is not an organized series of government or spiritual threats - it is human nature. In fact all of these practices clearly demonstrate the immense difficulty to transcend our inherent laziness, the inherent desire for the majority to allow themselves to be spoonfed their beliefs. How many actually choose to follow the path, or any path for that matter�historically, very few. ~smile � breathe � smile~ pranayama -p |
| dante |
posted 3/8/01 6:31 PM
I take that back, actually I am with you through the whole post...I misread the last two paragraphs. We are our own devils and our own saviors... ...GREAT POST! -p |
| dante |
posted 3/8/01 6:32 PM
interesting title Harla, you know that is literally the first thing JS said in his response to me when I entered this game... |
| Craig |
posted 3/9/01 3:51 AM
...i agree with a lot of what Pahana said, however, there is a lot more about tantra, then he touched upon, i asume he is aware of this, for instance tantra is a specific path with in the traditional hindu or buddhist, in that most people in these traditions do not practice tantra, in that it is more intense and more left hand in approach, it is the exception, and is sort of looked askance upon, insted of a total austere practice, where everything is strict, and rigid and abstinence is the rule, tantra imbraces all experiance, all existance, all sences come into play, nothing is rejected, all sensuality is brought into play, and worshiped, this does mean that there are very powerful practices and ritual sex involved, tantra is the exception, and there are various tantra cults, some contempory are very revolutionary, and radical in approach, very at odds with mainstream religion, and in many ways have a lot in common with a thelemic idea about life, i guess the idea of true will, and or doing what thow will is more tantric then it is not, but the so-called "new Age" is frought with prepackaged feel good Yuppie mentality fast food religion,( at least Hippies were more experimental)...but i fear that everything is being infiltrated in this cybermarketing frenzy, to be it all and have it all, on the other hand, traditional hinduism or buddhism is not necessarly the best thing for westerners...Carl Jung warned aginst westerners attempting to become eastern, and of course one could argue that Carl Jung was a bit shady in some aspects, but nevertheless, i feel that eastern practices have been westernized, and visa versa, to the point of an almost impossible syncretinism pervading the atmosphere but on the other hand do you want to hand over your life to an asaram?,... to unravel to the core of true spirituality, without all the subterfuge involved with religion and politics, everything is suspect, how do you know, what you don't know?...even if you are fortunate enought to happen to come by an authentic teacher, and learn enought trues, you still have to function in a totaly corrupt society, one has to become ones own intelligence agent, i personaly have become a kind of hermetic lone wolf, my feeling is that we are in very interesting and dangerious times, the butt end of the Kali Yuga, i feel that i went through very powerful and intense psychic alchemic transformations before i even was exposed to any particular practices of meditation or yoga,then i spent a year at a place called The University of the Trees, where i was learning about yoga, meditation, chanting, studing various hindu type taechings and also radionics, in that year i went through some important healing, but by the end of the year i left the community because i was not interested in being a deciple of mister Christopher Hills, a few years later i went and joined the O.T.O and that is another story...suffice to say i resonated with R.A.W....oh and the part about old rare books, i use to haunt used book stores, i would space out for days on end reading in book stores and in the university library, even though i was not a university student, i would spend all day long in the library just reading whatever happened to catch my fancy...consider this; some things never seem to change, meditation is eternal, and one should be able to do it in grand certral station, or in cyberspace, but it is kinda like kung fu, either you are a martial artist or you are not, you can learn some self defence, some practices of movement, or standing still (siting still) but unless you completely wrap your life around it, and it becomes your way of life, it will always be just a part of your life not your soul reason for existance, no matter how good you are someone is always better, but some souls are not preditory in the normal way, ie conditioned by society to the point of that no matter what they do they are programed to rise to the top, this means by whatever means necessary, therefore they will back stab you, if they think this is going to get them in the good graces of the master!...therefore one has to practice the art of having eyes on the back of thier head!...this is kinda like doing a kundilini sumersult!...actually i belive it has a lot to do with what you learned in past lives!!! |
| Craig |
posted 3/9/01 4:05 AM
...sorry for the misspellings but my lack of spelling skills should not turn you off to what i have to say, and if it does i suggest you need to practice your people skills more...thankyou ps i am bad at math also, so i am not that good at explaining quantum physics, but quantum consciousness can get beyond stitistical onesidedness, the idea is that being one pointed in a certain area should lead you through the mental maze, some are more right brained! |
|
Harla Quinn (Moderator) |
posted 3/9/01 4:59 AM
PETIT MORT Good essay, Pahana. Thanks. I tend to agree with you in most regards that the ancient mystery traditions have been diluted, watered-down and commercialized for the purposes of exploitation on many levels. Your comments about the effect of intense concentration on an object was reminiscent of Dee's initial experiences wherein he was 'contacted' by the "angel" Uriel. Many have said that this concentration brought on Dee's delusions. Craig made an excellent reference to the tantric "path" being equated with the left hand and, thus, is not readily "accepted" or pursued except by those at higher initiatory degrees. And, yes, Carl Jung specifically warned against westerners attempting to adopt the eastern philosophies as their own for many reasons. However, I must state that abstinance is also necessary during certian periods of intense contemplation and reflection in order to *marshall* ones energies effectively. For me, tantra's truest goal is one of experiencing a "near death" event which when executed properly and the energies are focused are directed toward opening one to another *re-birth* at a higher level. It is only one door and one level according to Leary, but an important level in that it is the first step in real brain evolution. He equated it to a Circuit V "hedonic turn-on" which is the tool most utilized in occult circles to effect a "gestalt shift" from linear to visual space to sensory space - the first jump from linear left brain activity to analogical right brain. Easy to understand, then, how the I&OH designers utilized this strongly in their equating it with accomplishing a "dimensional shift". Dante will be pleased to know that this fifth Circuit can also be likened to the turned on state of "free fall" one experiences during Surfing (not the Web) which according to Leary triggers the neurosomatic "mutation" and was the proximate cause of many astronauts subsequently delving into the metaphysical. It appears that we all agree with Craig's comments that the "new Age is frought with prepackaged feel good Yuppie mentality and fast food religion" and perfectly sums up Pahana's intent. Congrats, Pahana, on pointing out the intrinsic flaws in the counter-culture's sacred Chao - Bey - teachings on Sufic and Islamic tradition. That took a lot of courage in that this obvious aspect is most often looked on askance by his devotees. Finally, Craig reiterates the same question Dante posed a couple of days ago and it is one which is at the heart of many philosophies - "how do you know, what you don't know?" "one has to become ones own intelligence agent".... No shit, Sherlock! (smile) GREAT discussion, guys. My thanks. http://www.incunabula.org |
| Craig |
posted 3/9/01 9:25 AM
i am curious, has anyone ever heard of a publication that was put out around seven, eight years ago called 'spiritual revolutionary'?...it was put out by a guy named Kyle Griffith? he kinda of disappeared!...he was writing something called' War in Heaven', and then he was hit by a truck, and i wrote him a letter and he was in the hospital, then i never heard from him again...just wondering if maybe you heard of him Harla?...he had some very interesting radical ideas about orginized religion, at least at the time. |
|
Harla Quinn (Moderator) |
posted 3/9/01 11:40 PM
Let me reiterate something: The philosophy and methodology set out in "The Menu is Not the Meal" thread forms only the underlying template "structure" for the multileveled palimpsest which comprises Incunabula and Ong's Hat. It is by far not the *compleat* underlying structure if one can begin to process it in a synasthestic dimensional context - despite all efforts made to distract us from "seeing" it through endless disinformation and dead-end "leads" which seem to be continual and never-ending. I'm not trying to persuade you or convince you to accept my "view" - it's just an opinion and each of you takes from it what you will. However, at least - for the first time in the unenlightened and convoluted history of I&OH - somebody gives a damn as to what it all really means, where its coming from and perhaps, even where it's directed. Point out a single other person who has made this effort and I will humbly stand corrected. http://www.well.com:70/1/Publications/incunabula |
|
Harla Quinn (Moderator) |
posted 3/10/01 0:16 AM
metalepsis: [n.; pl. Greek] the use of metonymy to replace a word already used figuratively or, in other "words", the many varying and complex methods utilized by the intellectual faux noblesse oblige to continually distract the adeptus minorus attention away from the meaningful toward the irrelevant http://www.well.com:70/1/Publications/incunabula |
| Craig |
posted 3/10/01 3:29 AM
excuse me, was i just egnored? because i am not playing some game by some invisable rules? or is there some Incanublaian conspiracy disease that i seem to be immune to? my above question was legitimate! Harla it was not part of some systematic egg obfuscation! i am not the one obsessed with incanublia...i really don't have that kind of ambition, there is too much more interesting things going on, to refer everything and anything including the kitchen sink to some silly group of egotistic egg whipers!...give me a break! who are these people tring to kid?...all the science project nerds with a fast internet connection? Holy sheet!...get a life people! |
| Craig |
posted 3/10/01 4:47 AM
quote from the movie pi: "when the mind becomes obsessed with anything you will filter everything else out and find that thing everywhere" the incunablia is the postmodern text within a text ad infinitum, perhaps ad nausum, but definitly it will never be explained, because it's not meant to be, the more obsessed we become over it's mental twists and turns, its psychic cul de sacs, its egg with in an egg like russian dolls, its false leads, its endless labyrinth of threads, its multidimsional interface, its brazen arrogance, its promice of ultimate liberation that is JUST AROUND THE CORNER...its quantum equasions written on bathroom walls in some greasy spoon cafe with the perverbial brassy bitch/big sister waitress with big boobs in yer face with the cherry pie and pratical advice that will help you figure out the mystery of the universe and every thing!!! |
| MITHRAS |
posted 3/10/01 1:05 PM
Give it up Craig. This is their playhouse so you have to play by their rules. Do some exploring. You'll find other forums that are open to different subjects. The path to enlightenment is criss crossed by many diverging trails, but they ultimately converge at the same place. Some choose one path and stick to it while others stop at the tourist traps along the way. Explore your passions where ever they may lead you, but don't expect everyone to follow you. Some people have their own passions to follow. |
| Craig |
posted 3/10/01 1:40 PM
...i have a theory, that all religions and mystery schools, and therefore postmodern pseudo-mystery schools, are all part of a conspirasy of silence, in that nobody has a clue, in so far as the existentialist delema is much more profound then any new age channeled other dimential person, there have been so many i can hardly remember thier names, with thier 'cloned' pesudo-psycology/mystery school lessons that treat us all like a bunch of bug-eyed children, just gapping to hear the next channeled transmision, a bunch of inner children children in need of a big mommy and or daddy, 'flower of life' seminars and all the seminar conductors that are so high and holy now, you just have to pay them a thousand dollars for the next level, ya and i know of a high and holy Brooklyn bridge, but this is America folks, and a sucker is born every minute, hey mister want to buy enlightenment in a pill, well 500 micrograms of Owsley is no guarantee of enlightenment but it will sure open your eyes!...meanwhile back at the New Age Ranch, ok so back to my theory, existentialism was too real, surrealisem was too surreal, acid was too intense, so we got luke warm new ageisms, and also we got something a little more eggy (i meant to say edgy) we got something a little more edgy, for all you intellectual, science student, weirdos, enter: Incanubla...the replacement, for real psychic inner resurch, now we got built in games theory within later day psychedelic universes with in universes to keep us guessing on our toes, a little something for all you odd ball freaks, with an actual REAL egg in the center of the maze, just like the actual Real historical Jesus Christ, any coincedence?..beats hell out of me, but that leads me back to my circular argument, and the theory at the center, see, i believe at the center of this mystery maze is not an Real egg, or an easter egg, (jesus risen) but there is nothing but a gapping hole, an existential vacuum, that has been there all along, so we try to cover the vacuums with a black hole, and perhaps we will be closer to the truth, but in practical everyday matters, people will do anything to avoid the truth, to cover up the void with bread and circuses, to rush to any new age channeled information, to find the science to enter parallel dimensions, people will covet this knowledge, they will create a gulag of disinformation, they will fill the void with endless permutations of stories, within stories, self-fulfilling prophecy, when all the while the truth is there staring them in the face, like the grim reaper himself, if you cannot fill the void with truth, them fill it with bullshit and call it truth, next best thing, and so it goes day after day, year after year, and you know what they say; a little knowledge is dangerious, and if you keep persuing it, you will end up like Nietszche, or worse, but the plane truth is a bitter pill, the vacuum isn't getting any less vacuous, please do look directly at the thing looking you back in the face, the abyss of suffering in those eyes, but beyond that there is death after life, and perhaps we are a little wiser for the ware and tare...sorry i don't have any fancy link to numb your pain!!! maybe i will write a poem, heck no it's not Real chaos!!! |
| Craig |
posted 3/10/01 1:48 PM
Mithras, the guy jesus replaced, and the smartys thought they had a party, give it up?...that's what i am telling you, MYTH FACE!!! |
| Craig |
posted 3/10/01 1:56 PM
see, if you get a little testy, a little frisky, the whole egg begins to crack!oops!!! the trick is to hold it between your thumb and forefinger, and press on top and bottem, see no breaky! whatever you do people DO NOT FOLLOW ME! happy MYTHFACE! |
|
Harla Quinn (Moderator) |
posted 3/10/01 3:34 PM
Craig, I couldn't find any info on Kyle Griffith or "spiritual revolutionary" but I found some wonderful info that I needed while searching - thanks. The comments above weren't directed at you. As to your views on Incunabula, thanks for the laugh. Cosmic humour at work, again. (smile) Unfortunately, I DO give a damn. It's about time someone does since the "invisible agents" have been having their way for far too long at your expense, my expense and anyone else who steps onto the chessboard. And, you are absolutely right. There are invisible rules and its time to make our own rules and wipe the board clean of the disinformation and the game playing. That is my intent and my future direction. There are many who read this board and DP who don't post and sincerely want an understanding of the implications and meanings found within I&OH. Fortunately, they seem to understand that I DO care and won't toss them off with a few carefully chosen cliches drenched in mystery. To all of you - THANKS for your support!! Keep those cards and letters coming! LOL! I welcome and appreciate your insight, Craig, and you've been valuable in contributing things which are important to the whole context. Your last lengthy post contained real underlying understanding of the pitfalls of the new agey channelling and self-styled gurus. I've not treated you with disrespect, nor demeaned you nor your views in any way. I think you realize that from our discussions. Please show my involved interest in this area the same consideration. It may not be your particular balliwick - but it is mine. Time to move forward. BTW, "Pi" is one of my favorite flicks. In fact, I own it and watch it frequently. Warmest regards, Scathach http://www.well.com:70/1/Publications/incunabula |
| dante |
posted 3/11/01 0:59 AM
Why does your anger seem so familiar Craig? Hmmmm�. --------------- How could you have possibly felt rebuffed in what is a typical forum in which not all issues presented are addressed in a linear fashion? --------------- The "egg" is a modern Koan - haven't you got that? There IS no "explanation" for it because the explanation is the answer. The answer, like the Tao, cannot be taught or shared but has to be understood and experienced... ...what is going on here is exploring all the aspects to entrain the mind to be capable of making the blind intuitive leap to understanding... ...the Inc is the Tao Te Ching of the Western world - the guide to entraining the mind to understand in a culture that is far different from the Eastern mind... ...why do we relate everything that is in here to the core "egg"... ...because it all relates... ----------- When asked what is the Tao a renown master replied, "A dog barking" -p |
|
Harla Quinn (Moderator) |
posted 3/11/01 3:10 AM
Wonderfully said, Dante. Perfect. My thanks, Harla http://www.well.com:70/1/Publications/incunabula |
| Craig |
posted 3/11/01 7:16 AM
...there is plenty in this sorry world to be angry about, indifference disquised as whatever is one of them, somebody like Kyle Griffith, whom seems to have been taken out for his views, as they seem to be nowhere to be found, he took it upon himself to publish those views, and now it seems that that voice has been silenced, as Harla could find no evidence of his having been here, granted he was happening some years before the internet, but you would think that his words would still be around and someone would have the courage to put it there, 'spiritual revolutionary' and his ideas were revolutionary, because he was so radical in his outspokenness, nothing luke warm about his views, no subterfuge, no now you see it now you don't games, Ok incunabula has its reasons, whatever, it's just that i get annoyed at all the slick packaging and yuppiedelic ultra cleaverness, Tao is Tao, egg is egg, shall we not mix oranges and apples, its just like the whole Jesus myth, and myth it is, it has a stink about it but people seem to not to be able to get enought of that smell, get my drift?...i am a deconstructionist, ok, and nothing but nothing is sacred, therefore everything is permited, chaos is kaos, egg is gge, tare it all down, if it still stands, so mote it be!...Harla you say it is just your thing!...but have you asked yourself over and over why am i so involved in a egg cult?...are you still holding out for the final meeting with the big cheese behind the curtain?...are you thinking that you are going down in history?...are you thinking that you will be famous?...that the egg masters will finaly recognise you, and make high priestess of the great holy high egg? what is so goddamnd important about all this ong hat mystery game anyway?...see i think you are caught up in the personality cult of it all!...you want to become famous!...isn't that your real motive?...all these rich important cultural personalities, you are dazzeled?...and this is your chance for some recognition, you show your chops, and they throw you some kudos, and now you are strung out, going for it!!! and i don't blame you, but you should be a little more honest about your motives, because lets admit it, the whole thing smacks of well crafted mind control, all be it, the benovelent kind, but mind control it is, Tao it is not, egg it is is, let's call a spade a spade, dig it! it gives you a handel for your mental energy, but you like the glitter of it all, don't you?..it tittilates you, makes you feel wanted, and gives you a sense of belonging, fine but don't cover it with holy symbols, and mythic largess, just admit to yourself that it is the thrill of the game, and the potential for fame....happy mythface!!! am i angry dante...Hmmmmmm! have a nice egg face! on ...it...your!...mine! |
| M. Nasruddin |
posted 3/11/01 6:31 PM
Harla has invested an ENORMOUS amount of time and effort in her researches, Mr. Craig. And she has always freely shared her findings and hypotheses on the boards, accepting and expecting both commentary and feedback. At least have the good manners to respect her for that. |
| dr wu |
posted 3/11/01 7:19 PM
HQ:There are many who read this board and DP who don't post and sincerely want an understanding of the implications and meanings found within I&OH. Indeed I am one of those that HQ refers to. I have been following the discussions here and at DP for some time now. It is an interesting topic but I confess I have a little difficulty in 'groking' the exact nature of I/OH. I am not sure of the 'validity'of connecting I/OH to western hermeticism and eastern mysticism even though I have read many posts here trying to do just that. It seems the common thread is an attempt to reach a higher plane of consciousness...to transcend 'everyday reality' and to be what we really can be or are supposed to be when we find our 'true self'. This of course has always been the purpose of 'religions' and mystical philosophies. If I/OH is an attempt to combine science with mystical techniques(hermetic and eastern) I think I 'grok' some of it's intent. But what I am missing is the provenance of this 'new path'. So I ask some redundant questions and I hope you will be patient and help me with some answers. Where did the word 'incunabula' originate? Is it an ancient term or newly created? Is there any evidence at all that something took place at Ong's hat or some other location that gave rise to these stories? Who exactly are Matheny and Barnes? Do they really 'know' anything or are they just havin some fun? More importantly should we be concerned at all? The source info from our hermetic brothers in antiquity as HQ and others have pointed out is still there if one wants to dig for it. namaste, |
| Tlon |
posted 3/11/01 9:46 PM
I just wanted to jump in here, as I did over on DP a while back, to express my gratitude for everyone's generosity of information and opinions - if you haven't helped anyone else, you've sure brought me up to speed on numerous issues. Thanks! I find any attack on Harla's generosity in particular, to be ludicrous; she has stated time and again that her posts are her opinion, and has been open to the ideas of others. In other news, I just stumbled across this essay regarding initiation on a chaos magick web site; it seemed appropriate to the "Chapel Perilous" topic, and maybe someone will find it useful. BJ http://www.phhine.ndirect.co.uk/archives/ess_cycchaos.htm |
| Tlon |
posted 3/11/01 9:57 PM
Hmm... does anyone have an address for any formating information for these boards... my last post doesn't look anything like I wanted.... :( Also, for those who are interested in the Arthurian tradition, I've found the following books by John and Caitlin Matthews to be worthwhile: The Arthurian Tradition http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ ASIN/0140194622/qid=984345576/s r=1-9/ref=sc_b_9/107-0617736-9166 953 The Western Way, link below. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140194622/qid=984345576/sr=1-9/ref=sc_b_9/107-0617736-9166953 |
|
Harla Quinn (Moderator) |
posted 3/11/01 11:54 PM
Well, Craig, you got me. You've figured it all out. The evidence is uncontraverted. The fame and notoriety are too overwhelming to resist. Just do an internet search for the "Harla Quinn Fan Club", the MANY Harla Quinn web-sites, the Harla Quinn mailing list. BTW, the "Tao According to Harla" is a good read and a bestseller. Oh, and there are cups and T-shirts available for a nominal cost, too. (smile) I'm teasing and not at all defensive about your remarks. Instead, I'll take them as a real concern for my personal welfare. (If you only KNEW the cosmic irony of your comments. LOL!) Ask yourself this, if I were into bird watching or Pokemon, would your attitude be the same? No, because so many have come forward and stated that they had "run across" I&OH as long as 8 years ago but didn't really know what to make of it and certainly didn't pursue it much further than a cursory glance and a few leads. More importantly, there was no one and no place to share their thoughts and ideas. Only in the last year or so has there been the opportunity to open it up for full examination and discussion. You chide me for being caught up in the "personality cult" of it. I'm not sure what that means. Do you REALLY want me to stop providing my research and go "underground"? I tried that, many times, and there is a lot of uncovered material I probably won't make public due to the very attitude you are presenting now. My interaction with many physicists, scientists, paranormal researchers, and others who are simply "seekers" like myself has served as a type of "nexus" and information repository to bring the different and multileveled theories presented in I&OH to the surface for full examination by EVERYONE. It is ow my intent to actually begin a "development stage" to examine the beneficial viability of these theories, not for my own self-aggrandizement. That I have inured their trust by allowing me not only information but also to publish the information provided (though so far it is only the tip of the iceburg) can probably be construed as "dazzling", I will admit. Does that make me the High Priestess of the Great and Holy Egg? (smile) Has it brought me the correspondence and friendship of insightful and brilliant people who have helped me tremendously in my own spiritual and self-examination pursuits outside the realm of mere "research"? Yes, and for that I will never offer any apologies. As dr wu so aptly pointed out, there is the continuing quest to discover our "true self", though I prefer the term "fully realized self". I&OH has served to open a few of these doors. Those friendships and relationships are supremely important to me and beyond anything found in I&OH. The discoveries and developments we make together will carry us far beyond I&OH, perhaps even beyond the event horizon which is approaching more quickly than most care to admit. So, if you are looking for "motivation", I suppose that is the best I can offer for now. The Incunabula and Ong's Hat enigma has been circulating around for more than 10 years due to the perserverance and efforts of Joseph Matheny, not me. Through not just my efforts, but the combined work of a whole lot of people who have been studying and researching it and have been so gracious and generous in working toward putting all the pieces together, for the first time we are beginning to understand the "whole picture" and the ramifications presented. Yep, the "mind control" and behavioral aspects are important. But, I have been the very person pointing toward leads that maybe certain components of same are not as benevolent as appears on the surface. So, what then is my motivation? An egg cult? Do you think there is one? My dear Craig, I am the very last person to be involved with any sort of "cult" and rather than "accept" any theories or dogma in everything from magick to Incunabula, I have tried to tear away the veils of mystery and seek the explanation, information and disinformation contained therein and share that with whomever is also interested. I have consistently applied the maxim, "Think for yourself", not think the way I do or believe all your sensate experiences. Nothing is true, everything is permitted. So, Craig, whenever a light is turned on, a synaptic connection made, a veil is ripped away, or the spark ignited, that's just the sort of "glitter" that I am more than happy to inspire. Are your deconstructionist goals so different? What is this "new path" that dr. wu suggests? Therein lies the beauty of I&OH - there isn't one, only the keys and maps for us to decipher toward finding and achieving our utmost potential in reaching the next level, whether it be spiritual, technological, evolutionary or a synasthestic convergence of many. I appreciate and welcome everyone's help and assistance in helping "dig for it". Warmest regards, Harla (dr wu, read the "John Dee" post on "The Menu is not the Meal" for info on the term "incunabula". I will address your other questions in another post. Thanks for the links, Tlon, and to everyone's kind comments and support.) http://www.incunabula.org |
| dr wu |
posted 3/12/01 0:45 AM
Yes, I reread the Dee post and understand the purpose of the 'Incunabula' but what is the origin of the word itself? Is it an ancient word or a new paradigm tool? namaste, |
| Craig |
posted 3/12/01 3:33 AM
hell, people if i did not respect Harla i would not call her to task, it have a great deal of respect for her skills of detailed paradigim sifting, and willingness to share, but that is not my concern here, what is my concern is the sheer volume of information that is thrown aginst the wall of silence, this is not necessarly moving back the veil, i see people tring to see the good in all this, and if you are just checking in and out, it would appear all very normal, and you pick and chose from the plethora of phenomonal propaganda, and an abundance of it there is, look anywhere on the internet, link leads to links ad infinitum ad nasaum, i really don't need Harla or Huxley to be aware of the doors of perception, and i really don't give a hoot about I$OH and all the junk science attendant upon it, but that's my feeling, however i do not approach a situation like this on a surface level, there are enough buddhas on the road to kill any day on the week, no problem, i come at the issue with a totaly different tack, Harla needs my criticism on another level, it is on a more personal level, this really has nothing to do with the surface issue, it has to do with peeling away the whole veneer of the way the whole thing is presented and going, perhaps there is a tad bit of truth to what i said about Harla, but i suspect there is a lot more going on with her, and i am talking to you Harla, why am i so relentless in my passion to get to the bottem of things?are we on the same wave length? or do you just want compliments from some guy with an indian sounding name, does that warm you to the quick? or does my probing give you a tingle?...you know i am a surrealist, you know i am searching for my muse through the ruins and runes of ancient future labryinths of the modern postmodern landscape, she eludes me at every turn, sometimes she is a lovely apparition that i catch a glimps of as she smiles that deadly smile, and slips imperceptable around the corner of the imagination, as she goes ever deeper into the heart of darkness pulseing its heartbrain messages at the core of reality, yes i follow that shadow around every twist and turn of the mystery of mysterys, so i am very demanding of your essence, i seek it out like a heat seaking meme, for somewhere in all this rapture of eternity in this etiology of smiles there is a glimmer of your true self, your other, your own object at the end of time, and when this perception is percieved in all it's simple complexity, in all it's perplexing paradox, in all its contcatenating cressendo, all its deunde' of deus ex machina, all its ravishing removing of veils just enought to keep you guessing, and just as quickly replaces the layers of colored infinity of greensleeves, i dip my qwill into the inky resolutness at the center of the darkness of your eye, and there i see reflected my own resolve....! see that giggling fool joker dangeling on the end of your threads...hahahahahathar...hehehehe watch how he swallows an colored egg, and reproduces it, a moment latter and cracks it and a tiny chick emerges...peep peep! |
|
Harla Quinn (Moderator) |
posted 3/12/01 7:00 AM
Craig, you are certainly an "exercise" in development of my interminable patience. Nonetheless, even though YOU do not need "Harla or Huxley to be aware of the doors of perception" the connection of those doors to other aspects of I&OH are necessary and beneficial to some. Your comment shows the same selfishness and ego you admonish in others. If you "really don't give a hoot about I$OH and all the junk science attendant upon it", why are you here? I DO and that is why I am here. Please try to fathom that concept. I wish you the greatest success in finding your muse. Please direct your "personal" comments and concerns for me to me via e-mail if that is truly your intent to "assist". Warm regards, Harla http://www.incunabula.org |
| Pahana |
posted 3/12/01 7:37 AM
Thanks for the props guys, I still haven't got my phone line on at home and probably won't till end week. Craig, your comments about Tantra were interesting. However you need to understand that the major 'improvements' to Tantra which constitute the vama marg (left hand path) are thought by the Indian people to have originated through misunderstandings of the original teaching. Tantra was actually part of the original tradition originally which used the 'twillight' or 'green' language. If you look into the more traditional schools that use Tantric ideas, such as Mahayana Buddhism, Jainism, you'll find they place a great deal more emphasis on certain aspects which were part of Buddhism and Hinduism. Hatha Yoga also influenced it to a large degree, via the Aghori tradition and certain other offshoots. The Hathayogapradipika is a relatively recent text, but in terms of Tantra, if you examine for example a scholarly study such as Eliade did, there is a lot more to it than sexual ecstacy. Tantra really uses this as a vehicle to produce a certain form of consciousness dealt with formerly in the older forms of Yoga such as the traditional style advocated by Patanjali et al. May we not forget that the Yogic tradition was always associated with wind and the breath, and this is its primary focus - the mental, and breath level. 142=7. |
| Craig |
posted 3/12/01 7:57 AM
thanks pahana, i actually knew all that also, it was kinda in the back of my mind, yoga and breath, i spent some time learning about that, pranayama, and since then i have always done deep breathing, but for me, i chose more of a western path, my yoga is the breathing word, but at any spin rate, do you know anything about the nadam?...supersensonic sound current?...that is NADAM! check it out, and get back, i would like to know what you come up with, if you so desire, OM SHANTI...OMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!! |
| dante |
posted 3/12/01 6:50 PM
Craig, You are obviously un-educated in what this all represents and make that abundantly clear with the basis of your arguments. Snap judgments, red herrings, logic circles � all hallmarks. The fact that you can not see the direct correlation to the fact that breaking the "consensus reality" and achieving enlightenment are the same initial step of the same path - shows your ignorance. Why is Ong's hat relevant? Why is the "Egg" relevant? They aren't, it is their implication � it is the Incunabula that is relevant. This is a board to express and share ideas related to the p[lace of the mind in the universe - you try to extrapolate that into a cult? You are absurd. Why don't you consider one of the following: Educate yourself so that you are worthy of arguing with, keep quiet and learn, or argue from an area where you have some knowledge. -p |
| Parsifal |
posted 3/13/01 2:48 AM
dr wu, the word incunabula not only refers to a catalog of old books but a definition found in my Websters dictionary says that it refers to a "cradle period or state; beginnings; infancy". I believe I also read somewhere that the word comes from South America and is used to describe the way ancient south american native peoples would wrap a baby in strips of cloth and tie the baby to a type of cradle. So the word also refers to this cocoon-like artifact and maybe this is also the origin for the idea of the egg. But the two definitions seem to me to work best together. Understanding the "catalog of rare books" would probably be easiest if approached with an open mind, free from society's taboos and dogma, like the perfect unblemished mind of a baby. |
| dr wu |
posted 3/13/01 4:08 AM
Thank you Parsifal. I finally dug up my dictionary and found a definition similar to the one you stated. Viewed in that light it fits quite nicely. It also gave a definition as: Incunabulum; book/s printed prior to movable type in 1501.... I recommend a book called 'Daimonic Reality' by Patrick Harpur....a brilliant work relating all matters paranormal to the collective unconscious ala Jung's concept. We are all co-creators of 'reality' and an integral part of 'That which has no name'. namaste, |
|
Harla Quinn (Moderator) |
posted 3/13/01 5:41 AM
Parcifal, so very nice to see you again. Thanks for the very well crafted explanation of 'incunabula' for dr wu. Like the term itself, intrinsic in the very form and structure of I&OH is the quintessential "extreme mixed metaphor" interrelating many aspects. (Thanks to my Secret Chief for the "reminder".) I am suffering a severe case of 'writer's block' due to an enormous overload of information - as well as NEW information!!! - reeling and dealing with lots of "change" (Change is good!) and cosmic events [like the full moon (smile)] over the past couple of days. Hopefully, everyone will continue with this great discussion while I try desperately to put the final touches on the conclusion of "The Menu is Not The Meal" thread and FINALLY begin the posts in the next sequence - this thread - "Welcome to Chapel Perilous". And, yes, there is also a "life" to be lived and enjoyed to the fullest, on top of all this. (wink) Sooooo much to dooooooo.....ARRGGGHHH! Any bits of inspiration you guys want to toss my way would help tremendously... (smile) Thanks for your patience, Harla http://www.incunabula.org |
| Pahana |
posted 3/13/01 7:34 AM
Hi folks Well, I'm finally once again netbound. I have yet to get a handset but I don't need that for internet. I hope later in the week, maybe not tonight, to post another episode in the Incunabula soap opera, relating to how certain aspects of it relate to Tantra/Yoga and the Rosy Cross (no wisecracks there Craig ;}). By the way Craig, nadam is a poorly inflected form of nadi, loosely translated as a pathway or channel. You may be talking about the brahmanadam or shabda brahman. In any case, doing breathing exercises and a few stretches does not make you a yogi (I'm not claiming I'm one, just a person who has taken the time to read deeply into these things). Having said that I don't think I&OH is fully yogic in its approach to mentality (although I have seen some aspects of it there). I'll talk about that in the essay though. 142=7. |
| Craig |
posted 3/13/01 12:36 AM
...like i said i don't care about yuppie scum, that pretend to be knowledgable, so stick your yuppie ego bullshit in some egg and suck on it dante, screw ickanublia, it is not what you know but how you know it, if you have any style, or any soul, all you conceited arrogant know-it alls, with all your smug ass information, you can choke on it, information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, and chaos is nothing at all!!! and all your mind games wont change that, and throw in some algebra, and you become some quantum quazi nazi, like i said before, fuck you dante, and Harla thinks all her fancy information, is going to get her into the great big yuppie club in the sky, incunabla incashnublia, it's just a fancy way to be stuffed with yourselves...and act important! bunch of damn snobs!!! i will always fight your kind, one good poem is worth more then all the tons of information you yuppie scum snobs, jurk your egos off with die yuppie scum!!! die to your false egos, and all the crap incrapduplia! Ta ta ...and please don't the door of perception bang yr snob ass on the way out!!!...have fun puffing your selves up with all your fancy information, all you egg heads!!...hahahahahah sorry if i piss in your egg salid, but the egg is not the thing!!!remember! ...'Some of them will, but most of are willed. Some of them are genuine, but most of them are bad actors', N |
| dr wu |
posted 3/13/01 2:53 PM
Namaste Craig, Thank you for the enlightened words of wisdom. Nice to see that you flow so harmoniously with the Tao. We need people like you to show us the 'true way'..... |
| Pahana |
posted 3/13/01 3:19 PM
all I can say to that is... roflmao Thats better than the weird magickal dream I just woke from! Tell you bout it some other time 142=7 |
|
Harla Quinn (Moderator) |
posted 3/13/01 3:31 PM
"..die yuppie scum..." From HQ to Craig: Please...quiet your mind and overcome your consuming anger. In exactly the same way that I rebut the "fire and brimstone" and "reptoid" crowds who seek through their compaigns of fear and disinformation to frighten and manipulate in order to gain converts to their isolationist point of view, your destructionist tactics operate to serve the same end but in the other extreme. When confronted, the accusations spew forth. Your "die yuppie scum" responses are as ridiculous as the "you'll burn in hell" and "they'll eat you if you don't believe me" retorts. It seems you all serve the same master(s). Anger spewed forth to burn and singe all that it touches is not deconstructionist - it is simply anger. All of us - especially ME - and especially RECENTLY - feel the frustration, feel the surge in tempo, are moved by it and, at times, overwhelmed to such an extent that the resulting explosion becomes destructive and accusatory. I, more than anyone, struggle to find the balance of passion and to control the "vital breath". I'm not addressing you in some "feel good", new agey, spaced out context. Craig, you profess to be fully versed in pranayama, and, in your own term, the "breathing word". Where in any tradition - eastern or western - is the "breathing fire" construed to be destructive outside yourself? The deconstruction is to be directed within. Perhaps Pahana can explain this in a much clearer and informative way than I. We seek to tear down the reality constructs programmed from childhood. As dr. wu pointed out, to become "co-creators of 'reality'". Chaos is the eternal cycle of destruction and rebirth from the pyres. Your "deconstructionist" methods are "destructionist" and impede the next step - "birth" of new and original thought once the "old" imprinting is removed. Your "burn" compaign is as harsh and uninspired as that of the right-wing dogmatists you profess to despise. Your suspicions against science and logical argument in our pursuit smacks of the same narrow dogmatism as those who rail against evolutionary theories being taught in the schools. Your "know it all" attacks on the metaphysical aspects are entirely self righteous and self-serving. What master(s) do you serve who can control you so easily? If I didn't believe that there is an inspired "breathing word" trapped within your self-consuming fire, I would not continuously address you; but there is a necessary juncture where I must intervene when your inability of self-control impugnes the efforts of others. No one here wishes you ill, despite the fact that you continuously interpret every response as a personal and conspired attack against you. That, in itself, is grandiose egotism and unchecked paranoia. I ashamedly admit to having fallen "victim" to the same emotional delusion when my own "frustration level" peaks. We all have a lot to learn from each other. Examine the "source" of your actions. Do your frustrations arise because you deem the ignorant masses incapable of grasping the "importance" of what you have to say and to offer? That is a purely judgmental stance and unreasonable expectations of everyone's differing levels of interest and comprehension. Is your campaign for converts or to "open doors"? If it is the latter, then allow everyone their own pace and inherent "right" to make those decisions when they feel the time is right for them rather than bashing them over the head with your self-inspired urgency. Can we "bootstrap" everyone to the same level? Should we try? I don't know. It is a conflict I face, as well. Who the hell am I and what right do I have to make that call? Someone I greatly admire once said that the lone voice crying in the wilderness doesn't necessarily mean it's right. Think about that. http://www.incunabula.org |
| RM |
posted 3/13/01 10:07 PM
Information is not knowledge, Knowledge is not wisdom, Wisdom is not truth, Truth is not beauty, Beauty is not love, Love is not music, Music is THE BEST -FZ, from Joe's Garage We're all wearing uniforms here and don't kid yourself. -FZ, paraphrased http://www.zappa.com |
| dr wu |
posted 3/14/01 5:36 AM
"You are what you is." Frank Zappa |
| Battletested |
posted 3/14/01 8:46 PM
Just saying hi...still reading away, lots of good stuff lately...Big Zappa fan here (got every album he ever put out...A LOT of them!)....Oh, and I want a Harla coffee cup, that's my drug of choice these days!...too damned old for anything else. Fan club prez B |
| dante |
posted 3/16/01 6:11 PM
All, Sorry about that. I saw it coming and felt it would be over more quickly if I helped him along. Anger is so apparent in those that are unaware of their own motives. ------------- Craig, exactly what is a "yuppie"? Is a yuppie someone who is capable of expressing themselves without using phrases like "Fuck You", or "Die Dickhead"? -------------- Is a yuppie someone who has either educated themselves or received education or a combination of both? -------------- Is a yuppie someone who is successful?(only adolescents like yourself Craig, that are angry and looking for targets, identify success as something so simple as financial compensation, success is doing in life what you choose to do and not what you are forced to do by circumstances) -------------- Funny Craig - the tactic of throwing out "titles" and blankly assigning them without even understanding what they are was a tactic used by the Nazi's � it is called de-humanizing the enemy and is the basest of attacks. -------------- Since we are all part of a �cult�, and you consistently contribute to this cult, does that make you guilty by association? --------------- You are trying to lash out � you are lashing out because you lack the capacity to put together a cohesive argument to even discuss your points - why don't you try practicing the "breath" that you talk so much about instead of getting so angry. -------------- You started out actually discussing interesting issues and then could not withstand criticism. You are so typical of the adolescent boys that peruse the web looking for places where they can vent their impotent rage. --------------- Take a step back, start over and try to contribute � otherwise I will dissect you at every turn. --------------- This is a board where information is NOT taken at face value, it is challenged. If it holds up to criticism then it is accepted. That is the way REAL information is disseminated � not sold like snake oil. --------------- You started out well, what happened? -p |
| dr wu |
posted 3/18/01 4:21 PM
This could be theme song for the group.... Distant cousins, there's a limited supply. And we're down to the dozens, and this is why: Big Eyed Beans from Venus! Oh my, oh my. Boys and girls, Earth people around the circle, Mixtures of man alive. Big eyed beans from Venus, Don't let anything get in between us. Beam in on me baby, and we'll beam together I know we always been together, but there's more. Mister Zoot Horn Rollo, hit that long lunar note, and let it float. Men let your wallets flop out, and women open your purses, Cause a man or a woman without a big eyed bean from Venus Is suffering with the worstest of curses Yeah, you're suffering, with the worstest of curses. Put 'em out in the sun, and when the night come You don't have to go out and get 'em They'll glow with you They'll go with you They'll show with you Ain't no losers Cause they're on the right track Cause they're on the right track You can be on the right track, woman, Of course, of course Ain't no SNAFU, no fol-de-rol Check these out, Big eyed beans from Venus Oh, let a few out, let 'em pass in between us Distant cousins, there's a limited supply. And we're down to the dozens, and this is why... Don't let anything get in between us! Big eyed beans from Venus Big eyed beans from Venus. Big Eyed Beans From Venus ..from Clear Spot..1972 Don Van Vliet aka Captain Beefheart |
|
Harla Quinn (Moderator) |
posted 3/18/01 8:23 PM
Matheny and Barnes dr wu, sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I'm going to assume you are the same "wu23" on DP. I found your comments about Vallee very interesting and would respectfully request that you share more of those with us here, particularly his early works. I suspect you will find of great interest the following link about Marshall Barnes' efforts to debunk Vallee's work. http://www.tje.net/para/wots/9811/98_11_30_01c.htm More about Barnes can be found at his it.t web-site. http://it.t.boltpages.com/it.t/ As you will discover, there's not really any substantial information nor research there regarding I&OH. Most info you will find on the subject is here and at DP which is why Barnes the debunker wound up being "debunked" by the serious I&OH researchers. As synchronicity would have it, certain "connections" between the scientists and scientific principles of both I&OH and Montauk are still being uncovered. Unfortunately, Barnes' examination of I&OH has been severely short-sighted and he has not shown any interest in pursuing these connections, except by "innuendo", and has concentrated his work in two primary areas: (1) the scientific aspects of I&OH; and (2) attacking Joseph Matheny (an inexplicable "mystery" to all serious I&OH investigators and a complete waste of time and effort - ???) Be sure to read the limited DP archives at: http://www.incunabula.org/musee The message board at it.t is now defunct. In brief, without offering any personal insight on Barnes, he is most renown for his investigation into the Montauk/Philadelphia Experiment and seems to make it his mainstay to debunk the work of others - most recently, Joseph Matheny and Incunabula and Ong's Hat. (For more on this, follow the bouncing ball in the "Game Over?" thread.) Info on Joseph Matheny can be found at: http://www.immersion-media.com/joe.html http://www.incunabula.org/musee |
| tommy |
posted 3/19/01 5:30 AM
I am new to this board-I wasn't sure which board/topic to post on,,but seems this one had the most recent message posted. I have been involved in occultism my whole life, and have done many experiments. I do not claim secret powers, but I have achieved success in time travel, as well as dimensional travel. It is done through occultic practice, and no hi-tech apparatus. I will 'throw' this out, fishing to see how it is accepted. Thankyou for your time... |
| Pahana |
posted 3/19/01 10:20 AM
Just a bit of poetry to woo the masses with :) I leave it to you to close this thread Harla. Poem: Saylingham Ship |
| dr wu |
posted 3/19/01 3:14 PM
Harla...I will post a comment on Vallee's theories tonight... |
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