This activity apparently corresponded with the same general time-period when the U.S. Secret Government was making deals with the "Greys", establishing secret locations such as S-4 to study alien craft that had crashed, and constructing environmental enclosures for some of the 'few' alien beings that had been apprehended alive. Much of this activity allegedly took place and is taking place within the extreme high-security areas on and below the Nevada Military Complex.
However, the reports now coming out of the 'Complex' suggest that far more of the alien grays, and even their reptilian overlords, are involved with the activities taking place in Nevada than even a few alien survivors of crashed disks could account for. Many accounts have spoken of vast caverns below the southern Nevada region which have allegedly been the lairs of reptilian hominoids for centuries. All the accounts point to only one possible conclusion: That the Test Site workers broke into the native habitat of these reptilian beings, or a system of caverns which the reptilians had taken control of in the past, and as a result of the coincidental "treaties" which the governments were making with the saurian Grays (which they suspected originated from other-stellar regions), a secret treaty was made with this underground race as well, whether out of necessity or desire. Most of the "workers" would not be aware of the alien activity taking place in these extremely lower levels due to the higher security clearances necessary to enter or even know of them. This could explain the confusion which seems to exist there, and the comments made by workers there that 'everything is way out of control'. It might also explain the comments made by others 'in the know' who have suggested that the government is in a panic since they have learned that the sauroid "aliens from other stars" have infiltrated and undermined the surface of the earth without us even knowing it, and that this is why they are in such confusion, why they are rushing head-long to develop weapons such as 'Excalibur' to destroy subterranean alien strongholds, and so on. In the movie 'THEY LIVE', which depicted an infiltration of human society utilizing underground 'bases' beneath major cities, one of the "human resistance" members asks: "How long have they been here?" Later he comes to realize... "Maybe they've always been here!" Perhaps the reason behind the supposed alien infestation and undermining of the cavernous depths of the earth could be explained by the possibility that they have ALWAYS been here, or have been for some time. Do not accounts of reptilian hominoids date back to prehistoric times when the dinosaurs walked the surface of the earth? Keep this possibility in mind when trying to fit the following accounts into your framework of reality. Is it possible that a subterranean race, working closely with others of their kind which long ago left the earth for extraterrestrial realms, is staging (via subversion, implantation, disinformation, conversion, implantation and infiltration) a takeover of human society FROM ABOVE AND BELOW?
The following is a transcript of an interview which took place between a Radio host by the name of Chuck Harder and George Knapp, a journalist for KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, Nevada. The transcript of the interview appeared in 'FOR THE PEOPLE' Magazine, and because of it's obviously remarkable nature, including the large number of well-known people involved, we will record the majority of the interview here:
CHUCK HARDER: "...My guest has (now) called in and I'm going to run down who he is and where he's from for a number of reasons, some of them for his own protection. George, are you there..."
GEORGE KNAPP: "Hello Chuck"
CH: "Please tell us, you are George Knapp, right..."
GK: "That's right"
CH: "George, what do you do for a living?"
GK: "I'm a journalist with KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, the CBS affiliate here."
CH: "So you are a TV newsman..."
GK: "Right"
CH: And you work for Channel 18, KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, Nevada..."
GK: "Right"
CH: "I understand that you have come upon some very interesting information and you've done some special reports, could you tell us about it...?"
GK: "Well we just finished a nine-part series - what may be the longest series that's ever been done on this subject dealing with UFO's.
"Our research actually started about two and a half years ago, a fellow named John Lear, the son of the guy who invented the Lear Jet brought some of this information to our attention. In May of this year, Mr. Lear introduced us to a fellow who claims to have worked at a secret base designated S-4...on a top- secret Nevada test site... the fellow said that he worked on 'flying saucers', that the technology was not from Earth, and we interviewed him live in silhouette in May, the response was incredible...we got response from Japan, parts of that interview aired on radio in Europe, and six different European countries... so we decided with this much interest we might want to take a look at the subject more in depth.
"We started doing that and the first thing we found out is that really UFO's have not been given a fair shake by science, by government, by religion and especially by journalism. Millions of people have seen UFO's, millions more believe (in them)... I think the latest Gallup poll shows about 70 percent of college- educated Americans believe that there's something to it, but because of the tabloid aspects... 'The Girl Who Gives Birth to 52 UFO Babies' - kind of things in the NATIONAL ENQUIRER, people have shied away from it... Serious people have shied away. Scientists, although they might be interested in searching the universe for radio signals really don't want to look in their own back yards - they can't get grants...people would laugh at them. Journalism - the coverage is generally condescending and quirky, especially by the networks, as in the coverage of the UFO that supposedly landed in the USSR, people making fun of it... so, we figured out that millions of people want to know as Roy Neary the guy in the, 'CLOSE ENCOUNTERS' movie said, 'What's going on?' So we started investigating it. The focal point of the story being this fellow who said he worked at Los Alamos National Labs and they said they never heard of him. We called MIT where he says he went to school and they never heard of him. We called for his birth records and they had disappeared... as if someone was trying to make him a non-person. We did however confirm some of the information that he had given us... we found newspaper articles from Los Alamos indicating that he had indeed worked there...we found an old telephone book from the lab with his name in it, which gave him a certain amount of credibility in our eyes. The story he tells is an incredible one. He was hired to work at this area called S-4 on the test site, he was flown up to a place called Groom Lake - taken by bus with no windows to S- 4... the base is built almost to look like it's part of the desert with sand covering hanger doors, he goes inside and he starts reading these briefing papers dealing with UFO's! Pictures of UFO's on the walls, pictures of aliens, autopsy reports on alien bodies...things of this nature - he's pretty amazed. Then he sees the disks. He says there are nine of the disks up there, they are powered by an anti-matter reactor which produces it's own gravitational field...technology that does not exist on this planet, and the interesting thing...he thought for a while that perhaps it was just an advanced secret scientific project that our government is pursuing until he looked inside one of the disks and noticed the small furniture...all the chairs were built like (they were made) for children. And then things started coming together for him. Are you with me Chuck?"
CH: "I'm listening..."
GK: "Er, I'm not sure how much detail you want me to go in on..."
CH: "Oh, I think you ought to keep going..."
GK: "Well this fellow was up there only a few months. And it was a rough place to work... the security was so hard and he was being harassed at home, his phone being tapped... plus he's on to what he thinks are the secrets of the universe...he starts to tell other people about it, confide with close friends."
CH: "Ummmm."
GK: "He had the date of a couple of tests and on two consecutive weekends he took people up to the desert outside of the boundaries of area S-4, and they videotaped the saucers...what looks like a saucer coming over the mountains!"
CH: "Wow"
GK: "We showed the video as well..."
CH: "Um huhmm..."
GK: "Five different people that we interviewed that had gone up there confirmed the same story...we also had confirmation of other bits of his story from other people, a former security guard who worked up there... who said he had seen the saucers; a former technician..."
CH: "By the way, excuse me, I have some letters from some people postmarked from that area, one inside a base, who tells me what your saying is true. Keep going."
GK: "Ah, we also found a Nellis Airman who had been on radar duty at Nellis air base which is just south of the area that this fellow is talking about...he reported numerous times seeing..."
CH: "George, excuse me...let me do the half hour news break. I want you to tell your story, I want America to hear it...Please stand by."
(At this point SUN RADIO NETWORK runs the half hour news headlines and sports audio package from UPI. After the news the guest is re-introduced for listeners who may have just tuned in...)
CH: "How many reports did you do, George?"
GK: "We did nine total in this series."
CH: "OK, now at the time we went to the news on the half hour you told me that a scientist named Bob Lazar..."
GK: "Right"
CH: "OK, (he) came to tell you and came to the public and apparently was concerned for his safety because he wanted to tell America or get the news out that - yes, the Federal Government has nine saucers, and yes they are near...it's near Nellis, is it not?"
GK: "Yes."
CH: "Cause I have letters from people who are at Nellis. Some of which don't want to give their names, I have the postmarks. Tell us now if you would, start the story from the fact that the gentleman has revealed that there are nine of these things. We're listening and so is America."
GK: "Well we wanted to try to confirm as much of his story as possible for other sources of course, so we started looking for other people who might have knowledge of what's going on up there...as I mentioned, I found a former security guard who said that he had seen the saucers up there, I found a Nellis airman who had worked in radar and said that basically he and his fellow airman has seen these things flying over the Groom Mountains at speeds up to 7,000 miles per hour on radar...these things would stop on a dime, so the guy knew that this is not your average airplane that's doing this. We also interviewed the other people who went with Lazar up on two consecutive weeks, they test them on Wednesdays for some reason, and videotaped the tests, saw these things flying over the mountains and confirmed his story as well. We put these questions to the Navy, who Lazar says he worked for up there - we made FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT requests as well - so I don't put a lot of faith in the FOI requests."
CH: "In other words what you're saying is that your organization which is KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, plus many other UFO research groups have uncovered many UFO documents that the government says, 'Yeah we got them and yeah it's true'...but then when you ask them again they say, 'No we don't have them'".
GK: "Exactly...that's exactly correct!"
CH: "I understand from MUFON (Mutual UFO Network) and many other groups that there are somewhere from four to seven thousand documents that prove that...yes these things exist, copies of the documents are in private hands, then you go and ask the government and they say, 'Well, er, no we don't remember...'"
GK: "The government says that they have done these studies that say that UFO's are no threat to national security, they're either psychological aberrations, which means that people are nuts when they see them, that's what they feed the public...but behind the scenes they are very concerned about the national security implications of UFO's that land at nuclear missile bases and can't be caught, things of that nature. So the government from what I've read is very concerned about the phenomena and doesn't understand it. The government on the other hand has outright lied concerning what information it does have...the CIA for example says it doesn't collect any information on UFO's...well that's just patently not true. We have documents from the CIA, a lot of it is blacked out, which mentions UFO studies by the CIA, UFO research, CIA-UFO experts, agency personnel who are monitoring the phenomenon, so they have lied to us all along. I didn't expect to get any confirmation regarding what Lazar has to say, but had to give it a try anyway."
CH: "Before we went to the half-hour break you said that when he looked inside one of these discs there were little furniture, give me some information..."
GK: "Well he feels that they were bringing him along, giving him a piece at a time. He would see a saucer one day, the next he would see the hanger doors open and see all nine of them...after that he got to see the inside of the thing. He also got to see a demonstration of it. He was told to stand back and watch this...and the thing lights up real bright...I guess the power that's produced is incredible, you need to produce your own gravitational field, and it raised up, did a couple maneuvers and sat back down. Part of the reason he came forward, not to spill the secrets of the universe or the government, but because the research that's being done up there is being handled in a clumsy fashion. If they have had these for as long as forty years, which is what he believes, they haven't come too far in trying to understand them. Some of the disks he said he saw up there were being taken apart, kind of a reverse archeology process to figure out how they worked. Some of the research going on up there is aimed at trying to duplicate the things that these machines can do using earth technologies and earth materials and he says it just can't be done. The key to the flying of these things is something he calls 'Element 115' (elsewhere Lazar stated that this is an extremely 'heavy' element - Branton)...it does not exist on our periodic charts, he believes that wherever it came from it's a naturally occurring element, he says we have 500 pounds of the stuff up there, just a little tiny sliver of it produces incredible amounts of power. It's the '115' that we will not be able to duplicate so he thinks...one of the reasons he came forward is because scientists all over the world are working, putting their energy into trying to master the secrets of gravity and the secrets of anti-matter technology and here we've got it up there and they're not doing a very good job with it - this little batch of scientists hidden in the desert are trying to figure it out and not doing a very good job..."
CH: "But this is kind of common with the United States...I read five newspapers a day and I'll find where one group in one part of the country is working on a project and I'll get a clipping where another group is working on the same project, I've contacted them and they don't know each other!"
GK: "Yeah, yeah - that's exactly right...he said compartmentalization up there was very severe as well so that nobody had the full picture - I guess so nobody could spill the beans as he has been trying to do."
CH: "All right, what does he feel the public should know and what does he feel should be done?"
GK: "Well, he's not on a campaign, what he really wanted to do was to save his own life. He started having some problems when it became obvious to his employers that he was telling someone else about this."
CH: "We're talking about Bob Lazar now..."
GK: "Bob Lazar...his phone being tapped, people visiting him, calling him up with a single word message - DEAD - then they hang up! He tried to arrange meetings with his former supervisor and the meetings didn't come off, he says somebody took a shot at him on the freeway...obviously he realizes that if they really wanted to kill him, they could. Maybe perhaps they were just trying to shut him up. He feels that what is going on up there is a crime against the entire scientific community...not only the American people because we don't know what's going on and we haven't been told alien technology exists, but also against the scientific community. So, what else can I tell ya?"
CH: "What does he say about the aliens?"
GK: "He's reluctant to talk about that, apparently he did see some aliens up there..."
CH: "Excuse me, are you telling me there were live aliens?"
GK: "Yeah, he's kind of sketchy on the details of that, and I don't think I should go much further on that...part of the discussion until I can talk to him, but he has indications that there are aliens up there, at least one..."
CH: "Live?"
GK: "Yeah, it's pretty wild, I know and I didn't include that in our reports because I couldn't confirm anything of that nature, I couldn't find anyone else who had seen them up there so..."
CH: "What did they look like?"
GK: "Your classic Grey...the little big-headed almond-eyed grey-skinned being...the same ones in the classic descriptions of the UFO literature...he's kind of squeamish talking about it as well because it sounds so crazy..."
CH: "I don't think it's crazy at all, there was an article yesterday on the front page of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL where the FDA... stopped all the grapes from Chile last March... apparently somebody laced two of the grapes with cyanide a couple hours before the FDA stumbled on them and it was an inside job apparently while the grapes were in the inspection station...and it was not done on the way, so somebody's lying there - we're talking of two little grapes that almost bankrupted the country of Chile! If two little grapes... and such a story hits the front page of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL about the truthfulness and what happened with the FDA, what about this...how would this ever get out if they would cover up a story about TWO LITTLE GRAPES!"
GK: "Well, I tell you we ask the question, the obvious question, if this is true how can the government keep this a secret all this time? A story this big - the government leaks like a sieve on other things, how could the cover-up exist?"
CH: "Oh, I'll tell you..."
GK: "To which Lazar responds, this is the easiest...and he asked the question to his superiors up there, it's the easiest thing in the world to keep a secret because if it does come out, little bits and pieces, who's going to believe it!"
CH: "Exactly...let me, you remember the Condon Report, do you not?"
GK: "Yes..."
CH: "For those who are listening, I got into this investigation because I kept getting letters from our listeners who said, Chuck you ought to investigate this... we've investigated many things in the past such as the GM Diesel cover- up; we're working on a pay-phone cover-up; we've done things with Ralph Nader...and so on. So we started buying the books and contacting UFO organizations. I then found that there was a guy named Phil Klass who was always there... somehow he was always there and he said that everything was BUNK! and of course, he works for the AVIATION WEEK magazine which is of course... the mouthpiece for the Military/Industrial complex and they certainly wouldn't want this technology to be out! I was also amazed when I saw the stealth bomber (tests) live on CNN one Saturday and a small plane landed at the same place, (runway) do you remember that...?"
GK: "Yes..."
CH: "My question is: If the Stealth Bomber was so super secret, how could a man and his child land their little tiny plane on the same runway at a super secret airforce base? How could he have pierced the radar and fighter jets and so forth? My feeling was, probably the Stealth Bomber was obsolete and nobody was watching!"
GK: "Yeah, I'd have to agree with you, because the secrecy up there...the only thing that comes out of that place is what they want out of it."
CH: "So what you're talking about then, since the Condon committee, Phil Klass and all of the spokespeople who are supposed to know everything, what you are saying is the ridicule factor... if Billy Bob sees a flying saucer and even has a photo of it and takes it to the paper, everybody laughs at him!"
GK: "There are actual documents the government has released (under the Freedom of Information Act) that shows it is an actual program that started back in the fifties...the CIA even used the term DEBUNKING, there were discussions about using Walt Disney to produce cartoons that made fun of people who had seen flying saucers...they were going to bring Arthur Godfrey in as their spokesperson. Phil Klass as you mentioned, he's explained away UFO sightings seen by thousands of people as the constellation ORION, when you can only see ORION from the other side of the planet."
CH: "Uh huh..."
GK: "He uses things like Ball Lightning, plasma balls to explain the sightings where plasma balls only last for a few seconds and the examples that he is trying to explain occur in cloudless skies where there is no lightning around. You mention the Condon report, that's a perfect example of the kinds of things that the government has done in the past, they commission a study, it's supposed to be THE STUDY, but the guy they hire to run the thing, Edward Condon, had said before he even started, there was nothing to UFO's, the government should get out of it, and he also said at one point that the authors of UFO books should be HORSE-WHIPPED! One of the explanations that came from the Condon committee, (an event) witnessed by several people, they described it as, a natural phenomena so rare that it has never been seen before or since! I don't think this kind of thing is an accident!"
CH: "OK, the Soviet Union and Tass gave their report (of a UFO) and from what I have heard there are different kinds of aliens, some have been coming here for years and years and it's nothing new..."
GK: "Right..."
(Note: At this point they engage in a discussion of the 'Billy Meier' case which took place in Switzerland. One of the craft described by Lazar was allegedly very similar to one of the craft described by Meier. Lazar said that all nine of the objects he had seen in the S-4, Groom Lake area were different, and he nicknamed the object that was similar to the one Meier photographed the 'sport model'. After this Chuck Harder tells George Knapp that there is a break coming up and that after the break would he please tell Mr. and Mrs. America what they should do to get the truth).
CH: "I hope that Mr. and Mrs. America make note of the name George Knapp and Bob Lazar so that if anything ever happens to them, you know why."
GK: "Someone should tell us what's going on...TV and movies have conditioned us...We won't panic...Jimmy Carter when he ran for President promised that if he was elected that he vowed to open all the UFO files and he didn't - we wrote him asking why and he didn't respond. We want the government to come clean..." (At this point the listeners were invited to contact George Knapp as KLAS-TV., P.O. Box 15047., Las Vegas, Nevada 89144)