*************CHAOS MAGIK************************************
Session Start: Fri Sep 12 00:02:25 1997
*** Now talking in #TheWizardsWay

* Watcher casts a spell of peace and illumination upon Zahrim!
* Zahrim laughs
<Watcher> Warm greetings Zahrim.
<Watcher> You are new here?
<Zahrim> To this channel?  Yep.
<Zahrim> Wait a sec.  You're the server.
* Watcher bows to Watcher.
<GrayMind> That he is.
<GrayMind> But he also watches over us.
<Zahrim> Thus the name..
* Watcher tips his hat.
<GrayMind> How would you define a Wizard Zahrim?
<Zahrim> SImply?  One who does magick.
<Watcher> Whoever said doing magic was simple.
<Zahrim> I did.
<GrayMind> I think we are all wizards.
<Zahrim> Children do magick all the time.  Only with age do we
   forget.
<GrayMind> Very true.
<GrayMind> Then it is the art of the wizard, to learn to be
  reborn in each moment.
<Watcher> It is like alchemy, turning the sullen spirit to gold..
<GrayMind> Do you know much Zahrim about any magick practices?
<Zahrim> Lots of names for this type of work..
* Watcher agrees.
<Zahrim> Sure.  I do chaos magick.  I know a good bit about
   that.  I'm also fairly familiar with Western Occultism,
   witchcraft, tantra, QBLH, etc.
<GrayMind> Really?  I've never heard a reference to or about
  "chaos" magick.
<GrayMind> I'd love to learn more, if you don't mind sharing?
<Zahrim> Sure.  I've done lectures on the subject.  *chuckle*
* Watcher watches over all paths of the spirit.
<GrayMind> Where did you do lectures?
<Zahrim> What sort of info do you want about chaos magick?
   Theory, practice, belief?
<Zahrim> I did one in #ancients, a few on Undernet, one on
   chat.tech-gnosis.com
<GrayMind> Jackie also want's to know about chaos magick
<Zahrim> ok
<GrayMind> Hmmm - if you've given lectures before you may know
  best where to begin - I'd think a little overview - shrug
<GrayMind> Or comparison to another practice.
<Zahrim> What are you familiar with?
<Watcher> Pipe down GrayMind, and let hime share.
* Jackie giggles
* Zahrim laughs
<Jackie> bossy bot!
* GrayMind chuckles.
<Zahrim> Ok, I'll just overview, then.
<GrayMind> I'm familiar with wiccanism, some golden dawn type,
  basics of ritual magics - those might be most similar
<Zahrim> Hmm
<Zahrim> OK
<GrayMind> Oh course, I also know a bit about taoism, druidism,
  buddhism, hmmm...
<GrayMind> shammanism...
* Watcher thinks we should know as many ism's as we can, to help
  us see the big ism.
<Zahrim> Well, the "grandfather of chaos magick" is Austin Osman
   Spare, who was a Crowley contemporary.  He developed a form
   of sigil magick, painted, and wrote lots of prose.
<GrayMind> So, that explains your interests in the sigils within
  the Marduk's Book of Names.
<GrayMind> ?
<Zahrim> Somewhat.
<Zahrim> In AOS's theories, you make your own sigils, rather
   than getting them from dusty books or whatnot.
<Zahrim> AOS placed a great emphasis on altered states of
   consciousness.  A moment of altered consciousness, called
   "gnosis" is achieved in virtually every magical working.
<Watcher> Do you know the root meaning of "gnosis"?
<Zahrim> Basically, you make a sigil, then you charge it, by
   achieving gnosis.
<Zahrim> wisdom
<Watcher> Thanks.
<Zahrim> It has nothing to do with the Gnostics, though.
<Zahrim> Not in the way it's used by chaotes.
* Jackie wishes she had read 	The Wizard's Way	 while she had it
<Zahrim> Jackie:  Old Deepak?  My mom has that book..
<GrayMind> Arkain, we're learning about chaos magick from Zahrim
<Jackie> I gave the book to Basil in California.  Took a bunch
   of books and gave them away.
<Jackie> I just dont read anymore like I used to.
<Zahrim> Hmm, well then. I guess that finishes the history
   section.
*********************************************
<GrayMind> I love the book, it's the kind you can go back to,
  flip to a page, and find something insightful.
<Zahrim> I'll talk about gnosis a sec.
<GrayMind> Okay.
<Zahrim> Ok, gnosis is like a small satori, if you're familiar.
   It's that moment of orgasm or intense pleasure/pain when
   thought ceases.
* GrayMind nods.
<Zahrim> There are really only 3 core chaos practices: sigils,
   servitors, and godforms.
<GrayMind> What are the later two?
<Zahrim> sigils have already been covered..  Servitors are
   little etheric beasties that are created to do things.  They
   are usually created with sigils..  godforms are gods, who are
   invoked, evoked, or whatever.
<GrayMind> Do you believe they(gods) exist pryor to their
  "calling forth"
<Zahrim> Those are the only 3 things that most chaotes do.
   Everything else is individual.
<Zahrim> We have a strange way of dealing with belief, though.
<GrayMind> Oh?
<Zahrim> We generally don't care whether they exist or not,
   until we conjure them.  Then we attempt to believe in them as
   objective, existing beings, capable of rending us limb from
   limb or whatnot.
<Zahrim> Call it "paradigm shifting" if you'd like.
* GrayMind nods
<Watcher> I imagine it requires very good visualization skills.
<Zahrim> Chaotes generally use paradigm shifting to adopt
   techniques and such from other systems, like voodoo or
   thelema or tantra.  The imphasis is placed on the individual
   finding out what works for them.
<Zahrim> emphasis..
<Zahrim> We've got chaote reiki masters, chaote Nathas, and
   chaote hougans.  All kinds of yummy goodness.
<GrayMind> I like how it can be applied to such a variety of
  practices.
<Zahrim> Watcher:   Yep.  It would be nearly impossible without
   good visualization.
<Watcher> But, it's universal applicability only serves as
   validation of it's efficasy.
* Zahrim runs for the dictionary
<GrayMind> hehe
<Jackie> lol
* Watcher blushes.
<Jackie> stop showing off with big words, Watcher.
<Zahrim> Got it.
<GrayMind> Well, when something works, I guess any practice will
  latch onto it.
<GrayMind> Kinda highlights the similarities among them.
<Zahrim> A big part of chaos magick is deconstruction.  We try
   to pick apart techniques and see what exactly works and which
   parts it needs to work.
<Jackie> why do we seem to need punishing Gods, anyway?
<Zahrim> Big ceremonies are noo longer required, though they are
   sometimes helpful.
<Zahrim> Who's punishing them, Jackie?
<GrayMind> I think she meant why do we need gods who punish -
  like Zahrim
<Jackie> gods that "render us limb from limb" as you said
* Zahrim laughs
<Zahrim> Some people get off on the fear.
<Zahrim> I guess, anyways.
<Zahrim> Why are there so many Christians?  same question.
<Zahrim> But I won't rant there.
<GrayMind> Maybe, it's just a matter of realizing the infinite
  power we can put into such a thought form - - the same power
  that we are all capable of, made of, live from...
<Jackie> i was just reading an article in TMA today about
   ceremonies...the reason we like ceremonies is because they
   produce energy that vibrates us at 78.3 MHZ
<Zahrim> TMA?
<Jackie> TMA is a magazine I get from Chicago...The Monthly
   Aspectarian.
<GrayMind> Let's see, is that the Schuman resonnance?
<Zahrim> GrayMind:   That's classic Light path thinking.  Some
   folks go for the Union with the divine thing.  Some prefer to
   gain wisdom by seperation from it.
<Jackie> I know the Editor-in-Chief from AOL -- Guy Spiro
<Jackie> yes...GM..Shumann...
<Jackie> Guy interviews people in the magazine...this was Brad
   Keeny I think...
<Zahrim> So, any questions about chaos magick?
<Jackie> you can feel this vibration if you sit in a chair with
   balls of feet on the floor and place your feet at an angle -
   your legs will automatically vibrate at 78.3.
<GrayMind> What goes into the design of the sigils used?
<Jackie> it's the vibration of the earth.
<GrayMind> Is it just the creativity of the practitioner?
<GrayMind> Jackie, is it the vivration of the earth or the
  Fire<Consciousness> which penetrates it?
<Jackie> they talked about the fire consciousness in the
   article...will get it to quote.
<Zahrim> GrayMind:   Basically, you design an intent and make a
   picture or statement that represents it.  Then you A. take
   the picture and doodle til you have something that feels
   "done" or B.  drop repeated letters in the statement and make
   pictures from the letters.   called *chaos* magick for a reason.
<Watcher> An interesting reference back to what hobbit was
   talking about...
<GrayMind> Begin with chaos, and allow the emergent patterns to
  arrise.
<GrayMind> Modern scientific theory meets ancient wisdoms
<Zahrim> Yup
<GrayMind> "Ah, to see forever in a flower, hold eternity in an
  hour."
<Zahrim> The Tao of Physics and all..
<Zahrim> "Picture a massless particle"
<GrayMind> Have you ever read William Blake?
<Zahrim> Any other questions?  care to know about politics,
   philosophy, or something?
<GrayMind> It makes sense what you said about rituals JAckie.
<GrayMind> That's like what Zahrim was saying.
<Zahrim> Sorta, yeah.
<GrayMind> They just bypass the ritual, and "plug into" the
  energy or "channel" it into their forms - sigils, servantes,
  or gods.
<Zahrim> Just plugging in wouldn't help me achieve my intent,
   though.
<GrayMind> Did I get that right?
<Zahrim> Pretty much.
<Zahrim> It's all about consciousness and vibe, really.
<Zahrim> Sometimes you need the ceremony to get in the right
   vibe.  Sometimes not.
<GrayMind> HAve you ever read the book _Moder Magick_ by Kraig?
<Zahrim> Nope.
<Zahrim> I've seen it at WaldenBooks, though.  *smirk*
<GrayMind> nodnod
<GrayMind> That's it.
<GrayMind> Fairly popular I think
<Zahrim> Yup
<GrayMind> Anyways - it has some practices, and explanations
  similar...
<Jackie> he says" If you sit in a chair and move your foot so
   that it's resting on the ball of the foot, and you get it the
   right angle, you whole leg will strat to vibrate, It goes
   into an axcillation.  which is 7.83 cycles per second...and
   this is also why children are always moving their
   bodies...it's the natural way the body energizes itself.
<Jackie> but culture contstrains the energy to much...
<Zahrim> Jackie:   Have you tried it yourself?
<Jackie> the eastern religions make it too subtle.
<Jackie> yes...i tried the leg thing today...it works.
<Jackie> get your foot at the right angle and the leg starts
   shaking.
   bodies...it's the natural way the body energizes itself.
<Zahrim> This is nothing like gnosis.
<Zahrim> I guess this could be considered plugging in...
<Zahrim> This is like sipping through a straw.  gnosis is like
   opening a floodgate.
* GrayMind grins
<Jackie> well zah fromwhat he says it all comes from the same
   energy...yoga, gnosis...whatever.
<GrayMind> I imagine in intense religious rituals, the flow of
  energy would be serveral times greater Zahrim, perhaps much
  closer to gnosis
<Zahrim> GrayMind:   Yep, and both are better than this leg
   thing.
<Jackie> not a much more intense experience than the kundalini
   rising in YOGA....from what I hear.  It can be scarey.
<GrayMind> The unfortunate thing is how, at the Church meetings
  where everyone is going crazy and opening their floodgates -
  they are basically having it done to them, while they've got
  blinders on.
<Zahrim> Jackie:   Yep.
<Jackie> Brad Keeney has a book  called  "Everday Soul:
   Awakening the Spirit in Daily Life"
* Watcher wishes priests wouldn't make people think they had to
  go to a priest to have "God" enter their body.
<Zahrim> GrayMind:   They get the blinders welded on that way.
<Jackie> that may be true...but still on a personal level the
   people are getting in touch with their feelings which will
   help them in the long run.
<Jackie> I was in a pentecostal church for awhile...and i think
   the experience helped me open up a LOT>
<Zahrim> Watcher:   Know any voodooists?  It's fun to see it
   when gods enter the priests' bodies.
<GrayMind> Jackie, were you ever "dependant" on the church for
  "raising your energy"?
<Jackie> There is a sect called the Shakers...so maybe they have
   plugged into Schumann's Resonance.  ;o)
<Watcher> I've watched several voodoo ceremones - they drip of
   energy - the dancing the drums - the chanting.
<Jackie> not dependent on the pentecostals. no...i was getting
   to be very discerning by that time.
<Jackie> I'm still learning this energy stuff...I take it in
   small doses.
<GrayMind> Jackie, that's good.  It may be why you were able to
  benefit more from the experience.
<Jackie> you have to be careful...you can go off the deep end
   easily.
<Zahrim> How old are you, Jackie?
<Zahrim> if you don't mind my asking..
<Jackie> I went off the deep end with a cult I was in for
   10+yrs....was very judgemental and then one day...I sort of
   woke up and realized what a hypocrit I was.
<Jackie> I'm 50.
* Zahrim ponders for a moment
<Watcher> Of course pentecostals are helpful. Now, if you attend
   them regularly withOUT blinders, I imagine they are much more
   beneficial than with
* Zahrim ponders for a moment
<Zahrim> A few years ago, I went with a friend of mine (whose
   father was a pastor) to argue with Bible study teachers.
<Jackie> I'm not against church...i just find it boring as heck
   and would rather be in my garden or talking with open-minded
   people online.
<Jackie> I cant get past the feeling that Christians think they
   are the only right religion on earth...that doesnt sit well
   with me anymore...i believed that myself for many yrs...but
   not anymore.
<GrayMind> If you don't mind, I'm going to read some of _The
  Book of Merlin_, and drift to dreamland.
<Zahrim> I don't mind at all.
<Jackie> Niter's Graymind...see you tomorrow.
<GrayMind> Thanks for sharing about chaos magick Zahrim.
<Zahrim> Any time.
Session Close: Fri Sep 12 01:28:45 1997
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