Session Start: Sat Oct 18 19:54:36 1997
*** Now talking in #TheWizardsWay
<snip>
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<GrayMind> ...
<GrayMind> What is evil?
<GrayMind> CNH? Shaman?  Willow?
<SHAMAN> oppositoin
<Willow> hehe...i read your discussion from the other night
* GrayMind smiles
<SHAMAN> shadow
<Willow> hmmmmm
<CNH> don't you know yet?  All this time to figure it out and 
   still..... :)
<SHAMAN> lack of substance
<GrayMind> I don't know what you know
<GrayMind> better put
<SHAMAN> what is evil ...gray 2 u ?
<Willow> give me a minute
<GrayMind> I donk think I know what you think
* GrayMind will wait for Willow's response before continuing
<SHAMAN> different eyes see different things..different hearts 
   beat on different strings...
<wu> Hi gray...
<SHAMAN> but there are times..for u & me ..when all such things 
   agree!
<Willow> evil seeks control ... in one way or another...it does 
   not better us it holds us where we are or pushes us back
<Willow> it does not love and encourage
<SHAMAN> agree willow
*** JEP (tri_ger@slip129-37-214-77.oh.us.ibm.net) has joined 
#thewizardsway
* Watcher casts a spell of peace and illumination upon JEP!
* JEP hugs Graymind with all her heart
<JEP> evil is in the eye of the beholder.. just as is beauty
<JEP> yes?
<SHAMAN> we se what we wanna c?
<SHAMAN> that doesnt describe "it" just description>?
<JEP> depends on whether or not your belief system is dualistic
<SHAMAN> but we live in duality no>?
<GrayMind> The >idea< of evil may be in the eye of the beholder, 
  but does that mean there is some form >evil< for our eyes to 
  fall upon - or our thoughts to dwell upon?
<SHAMAN> a force without form
<SHAMAN> always opposition eh?
<SHAMAN> how could we learn
<JEP> we have been learning
<GrayMind> Willow, does not the ego also seek to control - is 
  the ego evil?
<Willow> i believe it can be
<Willow> influenced by evil
<JEP> then, you believe in duality?
<Willow> probably more easily than any other part of us
<GrayMind> What is the evil that would influence your ego?
<Willow> i believe that duality exists
<SHAMAN> can u believe in unity & duality?
<GrayMind> JEP I'm note sure about duality
<SHAMAN> the sphere & hemi-sphere
<JEP> I believe duality exist... in our minds... but not in the 
   true reality
<SHAMAN> well duh
<SHAMAN> :)
<JEP> so.. then it is a matter.. of changing our minds
<Willow> ahhh
<SHAMAN> god{goddess"..is unity 
<Willow> but what of the minds of others
<JEP> start.. with what we can change
<Willow> if they still believe and act upon duality
<Willow> does it not then still exist
<JEP> for them.. yes
<Willow> we can demonstrate, walk the walk...but we will still 
   be faced with their interpretations from time to time
<JEP> we must learn to go beyond... the norm
<JEP> to stretch... and perhaps.. they can see... as we see
<SHAMAN> true ..deviate from the norm ..ellivete from..
<JEP> :O)
<Willow> absolutely...
<JEP> must we lower our standards?  no
* SHAMAN was never one of the "masses"
<JEP> we must hold them up for all to see
<Willow> agreed
<JEP> if I fail.. then so be it... but at least... I gave it my 
   all
*** Jackie (dcn314@hd76-144.hil.compuserve.com) has joined 
#thewizardsway
*** Watcher sets mode: +o Jackie
<Watcher> Everything the wizard sees has its roots in the unseen 
   world.
* Watcher casts a spell of peace and illumination upon Jackie!
<Willow> nice
<JEP> Do I have an ego?  yes!  ask anyone, they will tell you it 
   is so
<Jackie> what do you think of evil, watcher?
<Watcher> The straight lines of time are actually threads of a 
   web extending to infinity.
<Willow> hahahahaha
<Watcher> Nature reflects the moods of the wizard.
<JEP> is that evil?  not in my eyes... 
<Willow> we all do
<Willow> and it is a necessary part of us
<JEP> not to hear.. some talk...
<Willow> but is it meant to control
<GrayMind> Along those lines, in the book _The Return of Merlin_ 
  : each member in "the Court of Miracles" has to escape from 
  society
<Willow> ego in itself is not evil
<SHAMAN> hmmmm
<JEP> true willow
<Willow> but it is easily influenced
<Willow> moreso than other aspects of our 'selves'
<JEP> by evil?  or just easily influenced?
<GrayMind> Can it be said that any action of man is evil?
<Willow> any action
<Willow> ?
<GrayMind> (man = human)
<Jackie> ego has a purpose and it is important I feel...such as 
   keeping us here on earth when our home is actually in 
   Spiritual realms.
<JEP> GrayMInd... would depend on that man's intent.. and that 
   man's belief system... yes?
<SHAMAN> the evil ego & the vice of pride>>is there ever 
   anything else that makes us take our different sides?
<Willow> to your question jep i would say either
<JEP> yes.. many things....
<JEP> thank you willow
<GrayMind> JEP - the Holocaust - evil, or _____?
<JEP> Graymind... at the cost of sounding... horrible.. in the 
   eyes of others...
<JEP> the holocaust was indeed a great learning expierence for 
   many
* GrayMind nods... listening.
<SHAMAN> watch the wizard behind the curtain...the larger than 
   life ..& the power of "seeming" certain
<JEP> many.. were reborn.. in that era.. to go through that trama
<JEP> to repay... karmic debts... acrued through other life times
<JEP> now..
<JEP> in present day
<JEP> it remains.. as a wonderful lesson to mankind.. yes?
<SHAMAN> true
<Jackie> it has been said that Hitler was the personification of 
   love, howbeit self-love not unconditional love.
<SHAMAN> would be hard to repeat
<GrayMind> And - if we come to believe that we are not just 
  these bodies, then the death of another is not an actuall loss.
<JEP> I truely hope.. it never is repeated
<Jackie> is self-love evil?
<JEP> that, must be your judgement Jackie
<JEP> not mine
<wu> confusion of terms.
<SHAMAN> hehe..wus 2 centsa
<JEP> I love my self... for myself is part of god
<Jackie> exactly!
<wu> Jep... can the infinite be devided into parts?
<GrayMind> Jackie - are we not born into this world, from one of 
  unconditional love - how do we make up for that sudden loss?  
  Turn to our mothers to provide the same?  Or turn to ourselves 
  to provide it?
<JEP> wu.. is the ocean.. not a bunch of drops?
<wu> no
<JEP> oh.. my friend.. then how did it become an ocean?
<JEP> if not
<Jackie> that is the paradox...
<JEP> drop by drop?
<wu> drops while ocean... are concepts
<GrayMind> wu, perhaps these bodies are but concepts
<Willow> *s*
<wu> besides the oceean is finite... not like the infinite
<SHAMAN> the whole larger than sum of its parts....
<JEP> it was your metaphor.. not mine wu
<wu> not always larger.. but of a different quality
<JEP> do not now back out 
<SHAMAN> :)
<wu> I used the idea of the ocean?
<wu> I only said..... the infinite cannot be devided into parts..
<SHAMAN>  Jep... can the infinite be devided into parts?
<JEP> oh.. my mistake.. no wu.. I apologize.. I used the ocean...
<SHAMAN> syn
<GrayMind> paradox: we are part of spirit - but sprit entire is 
  within us.  
<GrayMind> Agree, disagree - or choose to reword?  
<Jackie> i feel our physical bodies are Divine in their own 
   right.  so many paths denigrate the body.
<SHAMAN> cc
<wu> what has that to do with the ocean
<wu> ok..... fine.... 
<SHAMAN> hehe gray
<wu> with the infinite... every imaginary point of "existance" 
   contains all of the infinite
<Willow> the finite expression of the infinite
<Jackie> the ocean is a good analogy to make but hard to 
   fathom...(excuse the pun)
<SHAMAN> :)
<Willow> hehe
<wu> yess.. its too deep for me
<SHAMAN> hhe
<Jackie> LOL
<SHAMAN> my feet are wet
<Willow> oh dear
* SHAMAN tries
<SHAMAN> hehe
<wu> are waves part of the ocean or simply the ocean waving
<Jackie> never fails...try to debate good and evil and we end up 
   going around in circles.
<SHAMAN> true
<SHAMAN> yinn yangin 
<wu> sorry... came in late, jackie.... didnt know the subject 
   was good and evil
<Jackie> well actually evil, I guess. I just got here too, wu.
<JEP> circles... are a way.. of deepening friendships
<SHAMAN> true
<GrayMind> We are all part of the sacred hoop
<Willow> yep
<GrayMind> To paraphrase Black Elk
<Jackie> i think we all speak the same truths couched in 
   different terminology.
<JEP> yes Jackie
<JEP> we "see" the same.. from a different pair of eyes
<GrayMind> And why is it that we come again & again to these 
  circles?
<JEP> love, truth, and light draws us near
<SHAMAN>  different eyes see different things..different hearts 
   beat on different strings...
<GrayMind> How many diverent angles must we take?  How many more 
  words?
<SHAMAN> but there are times..for u & me ..when all such things 
   agree!
<GrayMind> Would you like know what I seek?
<Jackie> different perspectives of the same hoop?
<Willow> yes
<JEP> yes GrayMind
<Jackie> the snake eats it's tail.
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<GrayMind> I seek the unicorns.
<Willow> coool!
<Willow> amazing creatures
<wu> communication is difficult and dangerous when simply written
* GrayMind smiles dreamily, a tear near his eye.
<Jackie> feel it feel it...emotion is the key.
*** hawk (waif@166-93-38-106.rmi.net) has joined #Thewizardsway
* Watcher casts a spell of peace and illumination upon hawk!
<JEP> they are here.. dear GrayMind.. in our hearts
<Jackie> i think i saw a hawk fly over my house today...was that 
   you, hawk??
<GrayMind> "Does myth
<GrayMind> And mystery lie
<GrayMind> Where the unicorns go?"
<GrayMind> From "In The Sea"  - a song in the movie "The Last 
  Unicorn"
<Willow> very cool movie
<GrayMind> hawk, two questions: What is evil?  Where are the 
  unicorns?
<GrayMind> Willow - the book is just as magical
<Willow> hahahaha...hit her with the tough ones  right out
<hawk> GreyMind ..it has been a bit of time since last saw you 
   ...good to see you again!!! {{{{hugs}}}}
<Willow> yes Gray..i have read it
<hawk> GrayMind ..there is no evil except in the minds of 
   mankind ...and the unicorns had to hide from the great white 
   hunters yet they are still around ... *G*G*
* GrayMind smiles
<Willow> *s*
<SHAMAN> seen picturez!
<SHAMAN> unicorns
<GrayMind> If the unicorns are in our hearts, will they ever 
  again roam the earth?  Will our hearts manifest love in 
  physical form?
<Willow> yes
<JEP> our love is manifested in physical form quite often
<Jackie>                                 //
<Jackie>                       __       //
<Jackie>                       -\~,\=\ //
<Jackie>                     --=_\=---//=
<Jackie>                   -_ =/  \/ //\/
<Jackie>                   _,~/   |_   _|\,
<Jackie>      __          ,/_/    \' | `/_
<Jackie>     //\\          /       | | |\_
<Jackie>    /(\ _\________/        (,_,)`
<Jackie>   J(\_/                       \
<Jackie>  ,)\/     v                \   |
<Jackie>  / Y      (         Y       | /J
<Jackie> (7 |       \        |       '/ \
<Jackie> '| (       /\_______\_     _Y_  \
<Jackie>  'Y \     / \     7   \   /   \  \
<Jackie>  ',) (   /   )   /    |  /    (  )
<Jackie>    '~(  )   / __/     i J     / /
<Jackie>      \  /   \ \       | |   _/ /
<Jackie>      | |     )_\_     )_\_/__\/
<Jackie>      /_\     |___\    |___\
<Jackie>     (___)
<Jackie>     
<GrayMind> ah me
<JEP> see?  Jackie's love has manifested an unicorn right before 
   our very eyes!
Session Close: Sat Oct 18 21:01:59 1997

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