All fallacies are enjoyed by Feminists, whether ad hominems or straw men, appeal to reason or appeal to authority. Google can't be trusted with this information, as they're controlled by the CIA and in cahoots with the Chinese tyrants. So, enjoy: "It is as useless to argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason as to administer medication to the dead." --Thomas Jefferson "I have finally figured out that there is no point in engaging in a dialogue the issue of which turns out to be, ``When are you going to stop being a Nazi?'' " -- John Gordon, The Myth Of The Monstrous Male and other Feminist Fables. Warning: This is not a "nice" FAQ. One cannot tell the truth about issues that so many Feminists have lied about and not be controversial. Feminist myths and tricks frequently used to disrupt discussion --------------------------------------------------------------- The purpose of this FAQ is to briefly _identify_ prominent Feminist myths and tricks that are frequently used to disrupt good discussions, and by doing so, to give alt.mens-rights the tools to move onto better discussion; to _focus_ instead of just endlessly defending against the same old anti-male slander. The purpose is not to argue or to prove anything to anybody. If you're interested in more substantive material, I suggest starting with the WWW page (Not affiliated with this FAQ or with me) http://www.vix.com/men/index.html I post this FAQ in alt.mens-rights and soc.men. I would like to invite the readers of soc.men to consider tuning into alt.mens-rights for what we hope will be discussion unencumbered by Feminist "jamming". soc.men, of course, is available for those who enjoy knocking heads with Feminists. After some myths I include concise rebuttals and/or pointers to further information. Don't be misled: this is not an effort to fully explore and rebut the Feminist nonsense in question. It is a short _reminder_ of what's wrong with that particular Feminist lie, nothing more. I urge you not allow these myths to derail discussion of other issues, even other related issues. If they have not got a clue yet, you can bet they won't get a clue from anything you say. Instead, I suggest simply cutting-and-pasting from this file, as some have done. The myths below have had more than a fair hearing -- they have had billions of hearings, here and almost everywhere else on the planet. We in alt.mens-rights have heard and debunked these myths literally hundreds of times. I strongly suggest we refuse to re-discuss them endlessly. These little snippets of Feminist hatred have had their chance already. You don't owe them another one. I feel that any self-respecting people, after having addressed the myths _once_ -- never mind the ten thousand times we've debunked them -- should not tolerate them any further. We don't need to be complicit in our own defamation. Myth: Men (or white males) have it great. Men are well provided-for by society. False. On _this_ planet, men are second class citizens in many ways. This is the most cancerous myth of all and those who proselytize it are quite beyond civilized discussion. Trick: The preponderance of male legislators (male columnists, etc.) demonstrates male power. False and sexist. This is known as "The Frontman Fallacy": looking at what _sex_ influential people are instead of looking at _what they actually do_. Most legislators, male and female, show favoritism to women's interests. Trick: Social institutions not specifically dedicated to women are therefore specifically dedicated to men. "Males have _everything_ else in their favor." False. It seems that for every issue, Feminists claim that all _other_ issues except the one in question are working in men's favor, and never acknowledge that they say this about every issue! Myth: Domestic violence is committed primarily by men against women. False. National studies, such as Steinmetz, such as Strauss & Gelles, and such as McNeely, have repeatedly shown the rates men->women and women->men to be almost exactly equal. See http://www.vix.com/pub/men/domestic-index.html Myth: We have to admit domestic violence _is_ committed by women, but it's just because they were abused, so it's still the man's fault. False again! Researchers such as Coromae Mann have concluded "I would not define these women as battered women, I would say they are battering women". Myth: The single largest cause of injury to a woman in the U.S. is domestic violence. False. And considering the millions of injuries in the US from other sources, numerically ridiculous. Myth: Women earn $0.XX per man's $1.00 for the same work. False. This myth refuses to take into account important considerations such as actual hours worked (!), training, job commitment, etc. Myth: Men control more money than women. False. Men work for and earn more money, but women control more than 65% of US personal wealth, and spend 4 consumer dollars for every consumer dollar that men spend. Myth: Women's standard of living falls after divorce while men's rises. False. This myth is based on an "advocacy" study by Lenore Weitzmann that has been long debunked, for use of unrepresentative samples, misleading arithmetic, insistence on counting payments from the ex-husband to the ex-wife as if he still possessed the money, and so forth. Trick: Feminist interests and women's interests are interchangeable terms. "Feminist" and "woman" are interchangeable terms. False and absurd. Our opinion of all women could never be so low. Myth: Choice for men is about men trying to evade parental responsibilities. False and sexist. In the US, choice for men would give men only the rights women have had since Roe v Wade, nothing more. It would not let the man compel the woman to abort. See http://www.nas.com/c4m Trick: People who oppose Feminists are "threatened by strong women" It is manipulative and arrogant to imply that the only flaw feminists could possibly have is to be "too strong". Trick: Feminists just want equality. The anti-equality of Feminists is so obvious, so huge, so outrageous, that to discuss this myth would only dignify it undeservedly. Myth: Differences in the skills and behaviour of men and women are all caused by socialisation. Thus in principle all women can do most jobs as well as all men. There is an enormous middle ground between biological determinism and cultural determinism. Both extremes are ridiculous. We should not accept the socialization-causes-it-all theory as "the alternative" to biological determinism. Trick: Women have it worse because violence against women is increasing at a faster rate than violence against men. This is the Fallacy of Confounding the Derivative with the Function. Men have it much worse, as evinced by the two major U.S. Department of Justice crime measures. The actual victimization rates for women are still much lower than those of men. Trick: You can't criticize Feminism because no statement you make is true of _all_ Feminists. This trick tries to block discussion by making it impossible to express your thought. The writer simply specifies that by "Feminism", he means mainstream Feminism, misandry. Another approach is to qualify the term: "Gender Feminism", "Biofeminism", or "Radical Feminism". Trick: You're a misogynist! Misogyny has a clear, precise meaning: Hatred of women _as a class_. Those who use the term irresponsibly are both unfairly pretending there's much more misogyny than there really is and are demonizing people. If someone calls you a misogynist just because you speak harshly to an individual woman or you don't support special priveleges for women, they owe you a huge apology. (But good luck getting it) Trick: No man can know how awful childbirth is. False. We have wives, sisters, mothers, female friends, and so forth, and we have a pretty good idea of what is and is not involved. We're not about to be bluffed into giving more sympathy than is merited or bullied into playing dumb. Trick: You're just as bad as the feminists. They hate men, you hate feminists. Come off it. Anyone who can't see the difference between hating a birth-group (men) and hating a hate-group back (feminists) needs to pull their head out. Trick: Anyone who opposes Feminism is a reactionary who wants to go "back to the past". Feminism is "progress". Anti-feminists are not neccessarily traditionalists. The author is a proud anti-feminist and is not a traditionalist. And not everyone agrees that Feminism is "progress". On the contrary, most here think Feminism has been a disaster. _Pithy_ additions and enhancements sought. No entry should exceed 3 80-column lines of myth and 8 lines of debunk, to prevent it from becoming a sprawling, unfocused treatise. Every entry should be a Feminist myth that has actually been raised in this newsgroup. Please reply in the newsgroup, as I cannot receive email (it will bounce). If you wish to claim that these myths are in fact true, you're too late. You've had your hearing and you convinced me and others that purveyors of these myths will never be reasonable or honest. I wish to thank those who have commented constructively on this FAQ.