
In late 1992, Art Bell of the CBC Radio Network (Phone #'s: 702-
385-7213; 385-721; 383-8255; "Talk Of The West -- Coast To
Coast AM"., KDWN Radio., Las Vegas, NV) interviewed John Lear 
and Rod Madley.  The following are highlights of the subjects dis-
cussed over the 6-hour interview period which ran well into the 
morning hours:

-- Lear, the 49 year old Jet Pilot holds 18 world speed records,
including a speed record for round-the-world flight in the Lear Jet in
1966.   He has worked for 28 different Aircraft Corporations.
-- Lear was initially 'turned on' to UFO research after Gen. Gordon
Williams confirmed to him the landing of a 'grey' alien craft at
Bentwaters AFB, England.
-- According to Robert Lazar, while working at Los Alamos, N.M.,
he (Lazar) learned that files in a restricted 'library' there revealed
that PROJECT GRUDGE (Blue Book) was still in existence as of
1988, although it had supposedly closed down in 1949.  Lazar was
hired at the S-4 base in Nevada with the help of long time friend Dr.
Edward Teller, who referred him to EG&G.  Bob's superiors stated 
that any revelations he made about UFO's could only be worded 
as 'his opinion', whereas DIRECT revelation would be a technical 
breach of his security clearance.
-- At one point John Lear and a group of investigators went out to
view and video-tape the 'disks' which Bob Lazar had said could be 
seen test flying at a certain time and place.  While on PUBLIC
BLM LAND the group was chased by 10 WACKINHUT 4x4 
'Broncos' and apprehended.  The Wackinhut troops demanded to 
see their identifications at (machine) gun point.  They were later 
hassled for about an hour by the Lincoln Co. Sheriff's Dept.
-- Indian Springs, NV., is the headquarters for all security at the 
test site.
-- When his superiors learned that Lazar told Lear and others of 
the 'test flights', they took him in and with a gun to his head and
demanded to know why he did it.
-- Ron Madley, a 'Cadcam' (computer design) administrator for a
Houston, TX., engineering company, refers to 'events 1-6' of NASA
shuttle films taken aboard the space shuttle DISCOVERY and
other shuttles, some of which were shown on national television in 
the Fall of 1992.  
-- According to Madley, his father Carl knew several astronauts 
who stated that at EVERY SINGLE SPACE SHOT at Cape 
Canaveral (Kennedy) at least one UFO was seen by either ground 
personnel or the astronauts, at or just after the launch.  This was 
confirmed by a Dr. Gary Henderson.  Madley Sr. was one of the 
first Lear Jet pilots, and experienced a UFO sighting which was 
witnessed by others wherein he intercepted a flying disk, which 
played 'cat and mouse' with him for several minutes.  Afterward he 
was interviewed by (govt. agent) J. Allen Hyneck, who confirmed 
the UFO sightings by the U.S. astronauts.
-- Event 2-3 were the incidents that were broadcast publicly, and
were only a small part of the entire file.  The events were recorded 
by cameras mounted outside of shuttle, debunking the theory that 
the apparent particle-beam 'flashes' were a reflection from the 
inside of the cabin windows.  The 'events' were named in the order 
they were found when the film was studied, not necessarily in 
chronological order.  Event #1 was seen late one night by a 
computer engineer at the Goddard Space Flight Center.  While 
looking at a live picture in the 'big screen' he saw, according to 
Madley, "several little flickering lights and a larger object pulsating 
towards the rear of the shuttle.  The camera then panned down 
into the cargo bay and after several minutes of no motion [it] 
zoomed into an area of the UR satellite.  The ground controller 
commented to the astronauts about Camera-D getting 'hot', and
that they could either return control of the camera over to ground 
control or they could switch cameras.  After a discussion ensued 
they finally got control of the cameras...they panned the cameras
back and the objects were gone."
-- "Events 2-4 were filmed by a man in Maryland off of a down-link 
from NASA (as part of a College project).  Event 2 is essentially a 
night scene over the earth that occurred on Sept. 16th (1992)... 
you see several small white lights that appear on the screen.  The
main event that people see in this is an object that appears at the 
edge of the horizon and appears to almost track or follow the 
horizon as it goes up.  After several seconds of this the object 
abruptly makes a right-hand turn, approximately a 45 degree 
angle...a very sharp turn.  And then leaves the atmosphere appar-
ently and goes out into space... this is the event most people have
seen (nationally), then you see what appears to be one or two 
streaks or laser-like objects coming from the bottom of the screen, 
up and towards this object and one other that's on the right hand
side.  These are fast-moving (streaks) moving much, much faster 
than any of the other objects in the view."
-- "Event #3 is interesting, it's a shot of the 'day' side of the earth 
from high orbit... It shows a multitude...probably a couple of dozen 
objects that are flying in all different directions across the screen. 
Everybody that I've shown this to -- and I've had the opportunity 
over the past 5 months or so to show this -- people working both 
at Johnson Space Center in Houston...people at Sandia,  people 
at a couple of Air Force bases... and basically their comments to 
me are universal, these people don't know one another, and they'll
explain: 'My God that looks like STAR WARS!'  And I said 'the 
Defense Program or the movie?' and they say 'the movie!'"
     "The interesting thing in event 3 we've found... is one of the
larger objects...coming from the lower left to the upper right hand 
portion of the screen... As it gets about a third of the way up from
the bottom there's one of these fast moving streaks that comes in 
from the right-hand side of the screen and intersects the path that
this object is on, in fact it intersects it at the exact moment that it 
is in line with it, and you see what appears to be another 'piece' of
either the first object or the second object break off and start 
traveling off into the lower right.  If the object was hit this doesn't 
make any sense because the object should now be tumbling in the 
other direction but it isn't.  This has led some of the people I've 
shown it to suggest that perhaps the object...ejected something... 
perhaps some sort of a defense maneuver (escape pod? - Branton).
But it does appear that something has been hit and we've caught 
that on film." (Note: If the 'flashes' were in fact earth-based 'beam' 
weapons that are part of the SDI  'Star Wars' arsenal, one might
wonder HOW the 'officials' were able to tell whether the incoming
craft were piloted by Hostile-Grey or Benevolent-Human occu-
pants?  Although the 'human' occupants encountered are at times 
less then friendly, they are in most cases far less threatening 
than the 'reptilian-grey' species.  Just what is the present 'official' 
attitude on the Greys?  HOPEFULLY this incident was not a case
of elements within the one-world [Illuminati] government who have 
become the psychological slaves of the grays, attacking a relatively 
'benevolent' human group AS THEY HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO DO 
IN THE PAST.  Whoever the 'good guys' or 'bad guys' are -- 'us' or 
'them' -- it is certain that some type of 'STAR WARS' is actually 
taking place 'out there', possibly at this very moment - Branton)
-- "Event #6... I went down in April to the Johnson Space Center," 
Ron Madley alleges, "the only branch of NASA that is keeping and
recording all the missions.  The public and the press have a build-
ing that they would go to at NASA for information... Fortunately I 
know that the film and all the photographs are not really kept in 
that building... the films are archived and kept by a PRIVATE 
corporation that has contracted out to NASA on-site and they're 
kept in another building at NASA.. Jim Oberg through his incompe-
tence has been a real help here because it was HE who actually 
let me know which building it was that had all the material... I know 
the exact times and days of the sequences I needed... I was get-
ting the runaround basically, so I thought well, the fastest way to 
do this...is cut out the middle men and go directly to the source... 
So at this building...where all the photo labs are, I essentially 
walked in and explained what the situation was... They proceeded 
to let me upstairs and into a secure room where this video was 
kept... I found the first 4 events with no problem at all, and they 
were pretty incredible, I was very impressed with the quality... 
Event 5 was discovered and located by a man in Nebraska who 
was listening to his short-wave radio and heard one of the astro-
nauts exclaim: 'WHAT'S THAT!  WHAT IS THAT?'... In the seg-
ment of film...at the moment where this should have been there 
was a JUMP in the TIME CODE and a change in the picture... the 
total time was about 14 MINUTES that was gone... I've never seen 
that happen before... I had gone in fully believing NASA's explan-
ation (i.e. that the objects were ice, debris or the firing of 'attitude 
adjusters')."
-- "Event 6... is a color shot over the earth in the daytime, and for 
3 seconds we see an object go from left to right across the view... 
The object appears at first to rotate or flicker as it goes across... 
Out of the 87 frames in which the object...should be there, there 
are 14 frames in which the object disappears completely... the 
object stops and starts at it travels through space, it is NOT a 
constant motion."
-- One man working at Sandia informed Madley that event No. 6 
was an 'alien craft', based on the flight performance of UFOs which
they had investigated.  They showed him a film they possessed
showing a similar object.
-- According to Lear, Bob Lazar stated that the alien craft could
bend the 'fabric' of space and travel at speeds exceeding that of
light.  The theory stated that they could somehow 'lock on' to a
distant point in space and through some gravimetric wave amplifi-
cation 'bend' the space-time fabric and enter hyperspace, and 
essentially 'be' at the distant point which they had locked on to.  
The subspace travel would be instantaneous because of the zero-
time factor of light-speed 'warp' travel, and the majority of the 'time' 
during an interstellar voyage would consist of acceleration and 
deceleration of the craft.
-- Madley stated that he has a copy of a NASA document that
refers to the date and times when the 'event-5' film was 'checked
out' and studied by others.  It stated that 4 U.S. Representatives, 
including a Dr. Pipps, studied the films on three occasions.  On 
the first visit Dr. Pipps referred to it as the 'lightning' film.  The 
second visit to the film library (also to check out the event-5 film) 
was, according to the document, in regards to a 'Congressional 
Inquiry', whereas the stated purpose of the third visit was written 
down as a 'UFO Congressional Inquiry'.  Madley stated that a 
Helen Bentley, a U.S. representative from Maryland, was behind 
the inquiry.  When Madley tried to contact her she was not at all 
cooperative, although she admitted her involvement when he 
pressed the issue and presented her with the evidence (letters 
signed by her, etc.).
-- Lear states that ONE of the reasons for the initial cover-up may 
have been due to the governments inability to provide an ENTIRE 
answer to the UFO question (the fear of opening up a 'Pandoras 
Box') and the economic, political and especially RELIGIOUS 
complications and questions that might arise as a result.
-- Some of the 'Element 115' (which powers some of the alien 
craft) in the government's possession is in Los Alamos and some 
is at the Nevada 'Test Site' according to Lear and Lazar.
-- Lear stated that some types of 'Greys' have 4 fingers with no
thumb (some with and some without 'webbing'), some have 3
fingers, some six fingers.  Some types of greys have no 'toes' but 
have 'sock-like' feet.  'Some' types have 'colorless' blood which 
does not carry oxygen and which does not contain 'cells' as we 
know them.  This description came from a government surgeon
known by Leonard Stringfield who performed 'autopsies' on alien
cadavers.
-- Lear states that the 'greys' can manipulate a human soul (or
astral form?), remove it from it's body and do all manner of 'experi-
ments' on them (Note: Some abductees have in fact reported
having had their spirit-astral forms 'jerked' from their physical 
bodies by the Grays while inside alien craft.  These Grays were 
sometimes accompanied by shadow-like phantasmal or para-
physical beings - Branton).
-- The Dulce (pronounced Dul-see) base has been called "Section-
4" by some of the individuals who have formerly worked there.
-- AIDS was intentionally engineered, and released through laced
smallpox vaccines in Africa, and through laced hepatitis vaccines 
in America, etc.
-- There were SEVERAL firefights with alien craft and their (grey 
alien) occupants in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam war, many
of them reliable incidents although hushed-up by the government,
"...one that we have a lot of knowledge of is one that occurred in 
CAMBODIA, and what was frightening to our side [who were] fight-
ing these [creatures] is IN THE DISK...WERE PARTS OF HUMAN
BEINGS, arms, legs, heads, that kind of stuff."
-- The host, Art Bell, mentioned an incident which was reported to 
him.  It allegedly involved a drilling project not far from the 'Test 
Site' and 'Area 51'... "and they got down 2000 feet plus, the story 
goes, and began to bring up human flesh, fresh flesh and bones..."
(Note: this is not the only story of it's kind.  One older account 
involved a drill bit that broke into 'empty space' somewhere in 
Australia, exact area uncertain, and pulled up flesh and hair from 
what appeared to be a hairy animal or humanoid creature - 
Branton).
-- The 'Horrible Truth' became evident to the Government during 
the 'Dulce' incident, when our very top, TOP scientific staff were 
killed.  Due to the former false and misleading views of the aliens
and their intentions which had been reinforced by the 'grays' them-
selves, the government had commissioned a guarded release of 
information concerning the seemingly non-threatening gray-
aliens... that was BEFORE the so-called 'Dulce Wars' broke out. 
Because of the way information seeps down from the higher to the
lower echelons they were unable to prevent Speilberg -- and others 
who had been commissioned or inspired to make movies or 
documentaries favoring the 'friendly' little aliens -- from producing 
their warped version of the greys, the abductions, etc.  Lear 
believes that the reason Linda M. Howe's project [involving MJ-12's 
release of information] came to a mysterious halt about the same
time the 'Horrible Truth' or the 'Grand Deception' was discovered, 
was probably due of those revelations.
-- Lear referred to a video describing the whole Robert Lazar story 
and related information on the 'bases', etc., which is available from 
Tri-ad., 1324 S. Eastern., Las Vegas, Nevada  89104.
-- One of the technical 'marvels' that Bob Lazar allegedly saw at
the test site was a generator the size of a small ice chest that put 
out a tremendous amount of energy (in the '100 megawatt' range).
-- There is one top-secret weapon the U.S. government has devel-
oped which is so devastating that there are 'certain alien groups' 
that are trying to suppress it.
-- One caller who allegedly held a 'Q' clearance confirmed -- via a
friend of his with an even higher 'Cosmo' clearance who worked at
the Nevada Military Complex -- that 'two' alien groups contacted
the government.  One was human-like and offered to help us with
our spiritual-social development but refused to give the government 
technology.  The government refused their offer; and the next was
the 'Greys' which offered technology in exchange for the govern-
ment keeping their existence secret from the public, etc.  Accord-
ing to John Lear the second group turned out to be LIARS and DID
NOT DELIVER THE TECHNOLOGY [or installed it only in so-
called 'joint' underground bases which THEY controlled.  The main
source of U.S. government technology apparently came from
crashed disks -- mostly 'grey' craft -- some of which were blown 
out of the sky by the U.S. military].
-- Wickenberg, Arizona is an apparent site of an underground 
base, 'abduction' activity, etc.  The government allegedly took
control of a mine in the area some years ago.
-- Earlier in the century 1 in 40 citizens reportedly experienced
'abductions'.  As of the early 1990's the figures are closer to 1
in 10, according to Lear!
-- There are 'tunnels' and base complexes that connect China
Lake, California City, Norton AFB, Edwards AFB, Tonopah, 
Groom Lake, Nevada Test Site, Los Alamos, Dulce, Norad, 
Oklahoma and to the East.  Lear spoke of a friend whose father 
was or is a hydraulic engineer on the tunnel digging machines 
which are 28 ft. in diameter.
-- Lear stated that he got within one week of interviewing a man
who allegedly worked in the 'base' on Mars, before he 'dis-
appeared'.
-- There was a reference to possible 'alien' influence behind the 
Trilateral Commission and the 'New World Order' as well as 
Adolph Hitler's Third Reich.
-- Reference to 'Casey & Associates' in Seattle, WA., founded by
an individual who was involved with several top 'government'
programs, and his knowledge of the secret governments intended
use of mass genocide as a means of population control.
-- There are apparently two types of entities which have gone by
the name of 'THE ORANGE': 1) A human-like type with (reddish)
orange hair; and 2) a reptilian type.
-- One woman called in reference to an underground base at the
Palloma Ranch 50 miles west of Phoenix (where she lived), which
was located near the world's largest nuclear power plant.  Much
of the plant is underground and utilizes 'migrant' workers in under-
ground installations.  She allegedly heard that there was an under-
ground connection between this facility and the 'La Palloma' ranch
in California.  She also referred to 'patients' at a hospital where 
she worked who spoke of "people with lasers" that had chased 
them through several states, one of the patients was in a very bad 
condition, had a high temperature, etc.  One being came into the 
unit in a long white coat trying to pass [itself] off as a doctor and 
talked to the woman and a fellow worker '"through telepathy" and 
"told" them if they pursued it they "would be dead."  Before 7 A.M. 
the two patients were 'removed' from the hospital.
-- 3000 feet below the Test Site there is allegedly a huge cavern
which can hold 25,000 combat troops, and 500 feet above that
there is allegedly another area which can hold 500 officers (could
this be a part of the 'underground war' that one source from 
Colorado says our government is involved in?  Some of the 
strange underground 'explosions' that have been reported, accord-
ing to this source, are not the result of excavations, but are in fact
a product of this underground war -- against the grays?).  Many of 
the bases were excavated by 'clean' nuclear explosions.
-- Lear refers to evidence that intense conflict exists between at 
least two of the alien species (the two most common, the 'Nordics' 
and the 'Greys'?).
-- References to [psychic] attacks by the 'greys' on people while 
in the dream state, via electronic or radionic rays.
-- Reference to a 'lattice resonator' allegedly captured in an under-
ground base in the Hartz mountains of Germany in 1945.
-- How the aliens use cold fusion in order to 'pack' the molecules 
into tight and seemingly impenetrable forms, as part of the con-
struction of alien craft 'hulls'.
-- According to Bob Lazar the greys are 'terrified' of the human
race, possibly explaining why they're so intent on hiding their true
nature from the masses.
-- Reference to an underground base near Ft. Huachuca, Arizona.
-- One woman told of a conversation that was 'overhead' between
two older men.  Part of the conversation included the statement
that they had to get back to 'their space station'.
-- A description of EMS - Emergency Broadcasting System hard-
ware and how it is being used to manipulate human behavior.
-- Suppression of information by MUFON and other large 'infiltrated' 
UFO organizations.
-- A reference to Crop Circle' phenomena in 27 countries.
-- Reference to Military test craft capable of mach 5 to 15.
-- A brief discussion on the so-called 'Locust' or 'Preying Mantis' 
type entities seen with the saurian greys during encounters.
-- Strange underground drilling and mechanical noises heard 
under Sierra, California and throughout the Rocky Mountains, etc.
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