----- Original Message -----
From: ark
To: Paul Wong
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 3:30 PM
Subject: Discussion on the Name of Jesus
The ARK Forum
Dear Brothers and
Sisters in this Forum,
Grace to you and peace
from our Lord Jesus Christ, HalleluYah!
I just received an email from Rogelio Cheng who is commenting on one of
my previous
emails concerning the name of Jesus is not the name of God. I do understand other
brethren also disagree with this position but I hope and pray that we can
all come to the
truth that is based on God’s revelation through His written word and
not through opinions
or resolutions arrived by the majority votes of a council. God’s word overrules man’s ideas.
Over the years I have made some serious research on this subject and I
would like to share
it with the ARK Forum in this web site :à http://www.geocities.com/godsname_ark
In this web site there are several articles that relate to the subject
of the name of God and
Jesus. I do not claim to have
all the truths and I am ready to admit that I can be wrong.
Please read the articles very carefully and check every word with the
Bible verses. I shall
appreciate your fair and objective comments and also corrections.
I also want to take this opportunity to thank Brother Rogelio Cheng for
his sincerity and
willingness to discuss
this subject with me. Our discussion is
one of the items in the
web site. Rogelio's writings are in black and mine is in green.
Again, I would like to
make a disclaimer that what I write in this web page are my own concepts
and it does not
reflect on the doctrines of any denominational church.
May God bless you.
Your servant in the Lord
Jesus Christ,
Paul Wong ~ Email
Address: [email protected]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Discussion
on the Name of Jesus
between
Roger Cheng and Paul Wong
Rogelio Cheng wrote:
Hi Dn. Wong,
I have enjoyed reading your articles and feel I have been benefited in
many way. However, this issue of Jesus, this name is not the name of God, I
do have a slight different in opinion that I like to bring up for your
reference.
Paul Wong responds:
Thank you
Rogelio. You have given me a lot to study and research, and thank
God, I am still learning from others. I
have also enjoyed reading your email.
If you read my articles on the name of Jesus
carefully you will see that I uphold the
name of Jesus dearly and point out that the name
of God is in the name Jesus.
It is an integral part of the name Jesus, but
not the complete God's name by itself.
Rogelio Cheng wrote:
1. We all believe that Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are the
different
manisfestions of God. They are one same true God. Since they are the same,
any one of three manifestation's name is also the name of all (Mt 28:19)
Paul Wong responds:
The One True
God revealed Himself to mankind as soon as Adam and Eve were created.
The Hebrew word for God is "Elohim" and God's name in the
Hebrew Bible
is written "YHWH"
and most Biblical scholars agree on the name "YAHWEH"
which has the
meaning "I
AM WHO
I AM" (Ex. 3:13-15).
Whenever the name of God "YAHWEH" appears in the English Bibles it
is spelt "LORD" in capital letters. The first time "YAHWEH" appears in the Bible is
in Genesis 2:4:
"This is the history of the heavens and the
earth when they were created in the day that the
LORD God ("YAHWEH Elohim") made the earth and the heavens." (Gen. 2:4) After they sinned
against God Adam and Eve were driven out of the
Garden of Eden (Gen. 3:24) Eve mentioned
the name “LORD (YAHWEH) (Gen. 4:1). "And as for Seth, to
him also a son was born; and he
named him Enosh. Then men began to
call on the name of the LORD (YAHWEH)" (Gen. 4:25-26)
From that time God's name YAHWEH became known and used for worship. The name of "JESUS"
has never been known as the name of God in either the Old or the New Testament times.
Rogelio Cheng wrote:
'Go therefore
and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them
in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
Paul Wong responds:
Please go
to this web site: "Baptism in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ"
Click here: --> http://www.geocities.com/baptism_pw/name.htm
Rogelio Cheng wrote:
Here mentioned there is only one name
and that name is the name of the
Father and the Son and of the Holy Spirit. We all know what that name is by
the name of all disciples and apostles baptized people with, that is the
name of Jesus (Act 2:38; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5)
Paul Wong responds:
Here is
where some people make this mistake by saying that the Early Church
baptize
only in the name of "Jesus". Acts 2:38 is in "Jesus Christ". Acts 8:16 is in "Lord Jesus".
Acts 10:48 is in "Lord". Acts 19:5 is in "Lord Jesus". Acts 22:16 is in
"Lord". There is
not a single biblical evidence that apostles
ever baptized anyone using only the name of
"Jesus". If you say that
the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is
"Jesus" then people
could be baptized in the name of "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus" but nobody
ever does that. Any Bible scholar
will recognize the truth that the words "Lord" and "Christ"
are originally titles and not names, therefore "Lord Jesus
Christ" can
be considered as
one name. Taking all the quotations from
Acts of the Apostles one can come to the
conclusion that the full name "Lord Jesus
Christ" is
often used for baptism.
For your information, I always baptize in the
name of the "Lord Jesus Christ" and I have
baptized Messianic Jewish converts and one
person in the Jordan River, Israel in the
name of "Adonay (Lord) Yahshua ha
Messiah". The reason for using the full name of the
Savior "Lord Jesus Christ" is that after His death,
burial and resurrection "God has made
this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord
and Christ." (Acts 2:36).
Rogelio Cheng wrote:
Since it is the name of all three
manifestions (Father, Son and the Holy
Spirit) is Jesus, isn't it safe to call it the name of God, Jesus.
"Jesus",
this name is a name of God. Yes, Jesus, this name does not only carries the
power and authority of the Father, but it is more. It is Father's name (John
17:12) and Son's name (Mt 1:21) and the name of the Holy Ghost (Jn 14:26).
Paul Wong responds:
There is a complete misinterpretation of John 17:12 to prove the Father's name
is "Jesus".
Allow me to quote this verse: "While I was with
them in this world, I kept them in Your name.
Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except
the son of perdition,
that the Scripture might be fulfilled."
There
is nothing in this verse that shows the Father's
name is "Jesus".
Here is another misinterpretation of John 14:26
to prove the Holy Spirit's name is "Jesus".
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send
in My name, He will teach you
all things, and bring to your remembrance all
things that I said to you." The Holy Spirit
being sent in the name of "Jesus" does not mean the Holy
Spirit's name is "Jesus". Let me
show you why. To be sent by the Lord Jesus
Christ means to be sent in His name. "After
these things the Lord appointed seventy
others also, and sent them two by two before His
face into every city and place where He Himself
was about to go. . . . Then the seventy
returned with joy, saying, 'Lord, even the demons
are subject to us in Your name." (Lk. 10:
1, 17) The Lord Jesus Christ sent the seventy
evangelists in His name so that "even the
demons are subject to us in Your
name." Here we see that to be sent in the name of the
Lord Jesus Christ means to have the authority
and power of the Lord Jesus Christ. It would
be wrong to say that because the seventy
evangelists were sent in the name of "Jesus" their
names were also called "Jesus". If the One True God
wants us to know the name of the Holy
Spirit is "Jesus" He would have said the
Holy Spirit's name is "Jesus".
Rogelio, I always read the Bible verses and try
to understand its direct meaning and not try to
interpret by circular reasoning which is the
wrong way. You can never get its true meaning in
circular reasoning which some people like to
do. I don't.
Rogelio Cheng wrote:
2.(a) The Old testiment prophesized Jesus, this name
is of God's name.
(Isaiah 9:6)
"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the
government
will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor,
Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
The name of this Child, who is Jesus, will be called.., Mighty God,
Everlasting Father. Here states the Child shall be called, or the Child's
name is, of Might God.
Paul Wong responds:
Please read
Isaiah 9:6 again. It never stated nor
prophesied that the name of the "Child" or
the "Son" is "Jesus". Here are the exact
words:
"And His name will be called Wonderful,
Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." We need to be accurate!
Rogelio Cheng wrote:
b) The New Testment witness Jesus's name
is God's name.
(John 1:12)
"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children
of God, to those who believe in His name:"
Paul Wong responds:
I cannot
find a single verse in the New Testament that witness Jesus' name is God's
name.
John 1:12 states that those who believe in the
name of "Jesus" are given the right to
become
children of God. It states nothing about
the name of God is "Jesus". We should not interpret
the meaning of a verse into
something which is not clearly shown.
Rogelio Cheng wrote:
John 1:1 stated In the beginning was the
Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God. Then it started to stated that God came to the world,
but the world did not know, but as many has received Him..... to those who
believe in "His name". Of course, we know that name is name of Jesus.
Paul Wong responds:
John
1:1-2 concerns the Word (Logos) who "became flesh and dwelt among us" It concerns
the incarnation of the One True God and has no
direct connection with the name. John 1:12
concerns believers in the name of "Jesus" and has no direct
connection with the incarnation.
Rogelio Cheng wrote:
Another verse (Heb 6:10),
"For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which
you
have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and
do minister."
Above mentioned God is not...shown toward His (God's) name, I am
inclined
strongly to believe it is referred to the name of Jesus. Just like the Lord
told Ananias that Paul will suffer many things for His name's sake (Act
9:16)
Paul Wong responds:
The
Book of Hebrews is written for Jewish believers who are familiar with
God's Hebrew name
"YAHWEH" although they may
address Him as "Adonay" (Lord). Hebrews 6:10 does not
prove
anything at all that the writer was referring to
the name "Jesus".
In the Damascus Road incident the Lord Jesus
Christ told Ananias that Paul would suffer for His
name's sake but the Lord said absolutely nothing
about His name is the name of God (Acts 9:15-16)
Rogelio Cheng wrote:
3. Can not God have more than one name?
Can not the name be a name and also
a description of that person?
In the reality and in the bible, many people has more than one
name;
furthermore, many people has nick names, which describe that person. It is
with man, how much more it is with God.
Paul Wong responds:
It is true that God has more than one name and
God’s name also describe who He is. In
reading
and researching the Bible you will find that
there is one name that is directly revealed to His people.
"Then
Moses said to God, "Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say
to them,
'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and
they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall
I say to them?" And God said to
Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus
you shall say to
the
children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'
"Moreover God said to Moses, "Thus you shall
say to the children of Israel: 'The Lord God of your
fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac,
and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial
to
all
generations.' " (Ex. 3:13-15)
"I AM WHO I AM." is "YAHWEH" in Hebrew. 'I AM" is "YAH" in Hebrew. In
the New King James
Version of the Bible it is clearly written that "YAH" is the name of God
(Psm. 68:4; Isa. 12:2; 38:11)
Read this: "Jesus said to them, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, before
Abraham was, I AM.' Then they
took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple,
going through the
midst of them, and so passed by." (Jn. 8:58-59) Why did the Jews stone
Jesus after He said I AM ?
By saying I AM Jesus claimed to be God. Remember God told
Moses: 'I AM has sent me to you.'
The Hebrew name of "JESUS" is "YAHSHUA" that consists of two
words. The first word "YAH" is
The name of God. The second word "SHUA" comes from the Hebrew
word "OSHUA"
which
means
Savior. When we say "HalleluYah" we are praising the name
of God. The first word "Hallel" in
Hebrew
means praise. The second word "Yah" is, of course, God's
name. So the name of our Savior "YAHSHUA" has God's name in it and it also signifies what God does with
that name. He saves.
"And she will bring
forth a Son, and you shall call His name
YAHSHUA (JESUS) for He will save
His people from their sins." (Mt. 1:21)
It is not correct and not 100% accurate to say
the name "JESUS" is the name of
God because God's
Name "YAH" is only in the first part of YAHSHUA (JESUS). The second part "SHUA" is not God's name
at all.
Here is a truly amazing prophecy about the name
of YAHSHUA
(JESUS). God sending an Angel to
Guide Israel is a type of the Lord Jesus Christ. "Behold, I send an
Angel before you to keep you in the
way
and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. Beware
of Him and obey His voice; do
not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him." (Ex.
23:20-21)
God's name is truly in YAHSHUA (JESUS). God's name "YAH" is in YAHSHUA (JESUS). This prophecy
is fulfilled 100%
Rogelio Cheng wrote:
According to the scripture God has many
names, to name but a few,
Ex.
3:13-14
'I AM WHO I AM'
Psalm
111:9
Holy & awesome is His name
Psalm
1:4
Ourhelp is the name of the Lord
Isaiah
57:15
Whose name is Holy..
Jeremia 23:16;33:16 This is His name by which will be
called; The Lord
our righteousness
Exodus 3:15
the Lord God of fathers, the God of Abraham....
This is My name forever
Rev
19:13
His name is called the word of God
Of course, with man can only have a nick name that describe him after
people realize how he acted or acts, but with God, this need not be the
case. God foreknew what His plan of salvationwill be; therefore, he adapted
this name of Jesus.
Paul Wong responds:
It is
true that God has many compound names but He revealed His only true name to
Moses and
that name is "YAHWEH". There is not a single
verse in the Holy Bible that states God adopted
the name of YAHSHUA (JESUS) which is the name of the
Son of God. God's name "YAH" is
God's name forever (Ex. 3:13-15) and it is
integrated with the name of YAHSHUA (JESUS).
Rogelio Cheng wrote:
Perhaps, this is the reason
Rev 3:12," will write on him My new name". In
the time of eternity of God, two thousand years ago or more ago, when this
name was adapted by God, it is relatively new.
Paul Wong responds:
Revelation
3:12 concerns the future and not the past or present. Let us read this
verse carefully.
"He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar
in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more.
And I will write on him the name of My God and
the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem,
which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I
will write on him My new name."
The "city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which
comes down out of heaven" occurs only after this
earth had passed away. Read this: "Now I saw a new heaven
and a new earth, for the first heaven
and the first earth had passed away. Also there
was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city,
New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from
God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
(Rev.
21:1-2)
Another
point you must bear in mind is
that it is the Lord Jesus Christ who said: "I will
write on him My new name" and not the Father who said that. One thing is
certain that new name will
not be YAHSHUA (JESUS) because this is already an old name. Now everybody
already knows the
name of YAHSHUA (JESUS) and "no one knows the new name except him who receives
it." (Rev. 2:17) We'll just have to wait until we go to heaven
when we shall receive the new name.
Rogelio Cheng wrote:
4. Many people has
Jesus as their name does not mean Jesus, this name is not God's name.
Many Jewish people or Spanish speaking people has Jesus as their
name, some maybe
because of their ignorance, some maybe
because of honoring this name. Either way, does not
disprove that this name, Jesus is the
name of God.
Paul Wong responds:
Other people make guesses and speculation about
God's name, we shouldn't. The third
Commandment states: "You shall not take the name of the LORD (YAHWEH) your God
in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in
vain." (Ex. 20:7)
The Jews take God's name very seriously therefore whenever they read God's name in
their Bibles they call Him "LORD".
The One True God has clearly revealed His name to Moses. God's name is unique and
exclusive and He does not share it with others.
"I am
the LORD (YAHWEH), that is My name; and My glory I will not give to another,
Nor My praise to graven images" (Isa. 42:8)
"For My own sake, for My own sake, I will do
it; for how should My name be profaned?
And I will not give My glory to another." (Isa.
48:11)
The Hispanic people may be ignorant about the
sacredness of God's name but certainly
not the Jews who would not dare to pronounce it
for fear that they might violate the Third
Commandment. Moses received a direct
revelation of the name of the One True God and
he has also received the Ten Commandments from
God directly. This man of God who
wrote the Torah knows the name of Joshua which is the Hebrew
version of Jesus, is NOT
the name of God otherwise he would not have
allowed any Israelite or Jew to have that
name. I have previously written that the
name Jesus
was a
common name amongst the
Jews and no Jew ever regarded it as God's sacred
name. If you do not believe me just
go and ask any practicing Jew or Rabbi and they
will tell you that.
We may think the people who call their children Joshua or Jesus as ignorant and not
knowing
it is the name of God, it is actually those
that insist Jesus is the name of God that needs to
readjust and realign their thinking with the
Biblical truth and do more research on this subject.
Rogelio Cheng wrote:
As the matter of fact, spiritually
speaking, we are supposed to be named
after the name of God. Isaiah 43:7
"Everyone who is called by My name, Whom I have created for
My glory; I
have formed him, yes, I have made him."
Scripture stated that people whom God created for His glory was
called by
His own name.
(Ps 82:6)
"I said, "You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most
High"
(John 10:34)
'Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said,
"You are
gods" '?
Cat give birth to kitten, dog to puppy... God give birth to
us(gods). We
are gods with letter g not capitalized.
My father borne me, so my last name is name after him. We
are born of
God. Let us not be surprised our name is name after God. However, the
scripture, also tells us in
2 Timonthy 2:19
"Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal:
"The
Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name
of
Christ depart from iniquity."
It is getting late...I still gotta work tomorrow...I conclude here
for
now....
Love in Christ, Rogelio
Paul Wong responds:
“Cat give birth to kitten, dog to
puppy... God give birth to us(gods). We
are gods with letter g not capitalized.” Whoa!
Hold it Rogelio! That's really going a bit too far!
I don’t think I can take your “puppy” line seriously. It
is a good time for us to stop writing here.
May God bless you.
Your servant in the Lord Jesus Christ,
Paul Wong ~ Email Address: [email protected]
This Email is the response of Paul Wong
to a discussion in the ARK Forum on July 16, 2003
For comments please write first to: [email protected]
May God bless you.
Paul Wong is a Christian minister and the
President of ARK International.
His ministry also serves as an architectural service company in Houston.
The ARK Forum on the Internet is international and non-denominational.
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