Tnchatter: hey! Long time no see
gershon_ben_franja_l: hi there.
gershon_ben_franja_l:
I'm surprised you would stay in that Torah nation roomTnchatter:
I'm only uncomfortable with hearing the goyish deity's name now and then during those uncomfortable vetsgershon_ben_franja_l:
It's against the Torah to even mention that name as I read itgershon_ben_franja_l:
it's something I won't doTnchatter:
exactlygershon_ben_franja_l:
but others would disatreegershon_ben_franja_l:
I'm uncomfortable vetting JewsTnchatter:
so they say it, and Jews answer yes/no questions and are done with itgershon_ben_franja_l:
but I can't answer them anymore than I can say that other namegershon_ben_franja_l:
I won't go against the halachahgershon_ben_franja_l:
So you see, by refusing to answer the vett, I prove I'm JewishTnchatter:
that's not a universal psak on it - may I ask what rabbi said that?gershon_ben_franja_l:
You could, but I'm not sure I can find itgershon_ben_franja_l:
I am lookinggershon_ben_franja_l:
and since the room is open to all even a non-Jew who wanted to politely sit in must be allowed to.gershon_ben_franja_l:
As you know, an idolator who studies Torah is higher than a high priest.Tnchatter:
I know no such thinggershon_ben_franja_l:
hmmTnchatter:
Noachides are welcome in the vetting roomsgershon_ben_franja_l:
a noahide can be one of those other peoplegershon_ben_franja_l:
I'm guessing they will ask if you converted or were born Jewish, right?Tnchatter:
learning Torah from a Jew would be hard for an idolater since no Jew is permitted to teach Torah to an idolater.Tnchatter:
they do not care whichgershon_ben_franja_l:
And where does it say that?gershon_ben_franja_l:
btw, the tosafos to avodah zarah 2b says christians and moslems are NOT idolatorsTnchatter:
its a Jew's intimate relationship with G-d - kind of like a child walking into parents' bedrooms for an idolater to be within a Torah learning shiurgershon_ben_franja_l:
You need a reference the same as you asked megershon_ben_franja_l:
there are certain things we don't teachgershon_ben_franja_l:
there are things we don't teach uneducated Jews, too.Tnchatter:
would you agree that a Jew worshipping the x-tian or moslem way would be idolatry for the Jew?gershon_ben_franja_l:
Yes, I would agree with thatgershon_ben_franja_l:
because they are going the other directionTnchatter:
I agree that I am not certain that those types of goyim are idolatersTnchatter:
but I have been taught that we only teach 7 Noachide Laws to non-Jewsgershon_ben_franja_l:
I have never been able to find any basis in halachah for thatgershon_ben_franja_l:
that's a fairly recent developmentgershon_ben_franja_l:
Would you agree Torah was taught at the temple?Tnchatter:
not sure I know - but we did accept their offeringsgershon_ben_franja_l:
btw, everything you say or do teaches your belief in Torah, so you can't NOT teach gentilesTnchatter:
*THAT* is a problem!Tnchatter:
how could I even read shakespear without demonstrating my love of Torahgershon_ben_franja_l:
When I as a Jew comes into a room and gets called a liar because I won't answer a vett, then it is up to EVERY JEW in that room to stand up for me.gershon_ben_franja_l:
Do you want the reference for that?gershon_ben_franja_l:
That's straight Torahgershon_ben_franja_l:
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people; neither shalt thou stand idly by the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.Tnchatter:
what word are you translating as neighbor?gershon_ben_franja_l:
She was calling me a liar in front of everyone and NOT ONE JEW stood up for me.gershon_ben_franja_l:
בעמיךTnchatter:
sorry - no Hebrew font -- would you transliterate that?gershon_ben_franja_l:
beamechagershon_ben_franja_l:
I'm lousy at transliteratinggershon_ben_franja_l:
by the way, there is a reference I read that to lie about anyone is profaning G-d's nameTnchatter:
beamecha - "am" = nation?gershon_ben_franja_l:
your nation or your peopleTnchatter:
I didn't hear anyone call you a liargershon_ben_franja_l:
she said "you are not Jewish"gershon_ben_franja_l:
How much plainer does it have to be?gershon_ben_franja_l:
I said I was Jewishgershon_ben_franja_l:
Isn't that the same as calling me a liar?Tnchatter:
did you say the same thing? that anyone who vet's cannot be a Jew?gershon_ben_franja_l:
I guess I didgershon_ben_franja_l:
I'd apologize for that if I was let back in the roomTnchatter:
if you ever wanted to go through their vetting questions I'm sure they'd be happy to have you aroundgershon_ben_franja_l:
but isn't this a case of making the victim the criminalTnchatter:
I can probably arrange for that if you wantgershon_ben_franja_l:
I did oncegershon_ben_franja_l:
and they didn't like my answersgershon_ben_franja_l:
because there is another problem in their questionsgershon_ben_franja_l:
Do you know it's against halachah to say anything deragatory about the name soomeone else uses for their G-d?gershon_ben_franja_l:
I did a whole research project on this once. I wish I'd kept the notesTnchatter:
I would not agree with that --- in fact mocking idolaters is permittedgershon_ben_franja_l:
very strangeTnchatter:
personally I once found myself in a very strange situation....gershon_ben_franja_l:
if it's ok to mock an idolator why must we cease doing business with them 2 days before and 2 days after their festivals so they may enjoy it more?Tnchatter:
walking by a nice old Chinese lady in San Francisco's chinatown....Tnchatter:
some street thugs were trampling her candles she had set out in the streetTnchatter:
my dilemma:Tnchatter:
do I side with the thugs to stomp out idolatry?Tnchatter:
or do I side with law of the land in which she has freedom to practice her religion?Tnchatter:
(and this was San Francisco - incense candles probably not the worst thing going on)gershon_ben_franja_l:
well, I suspect you were outnumberedgershon_ben_franja_l:
but let's say you were arnold schwarzenagergershon_ben_franja_l:
We have no commandment to stamp out idolatry except in IsraelTnchatter:
okay - I'll go with thatgershon_ben_franja_l:
And idolatrous statues are sold in Israelgershon_ben_franja_l:
So, I'll ask you, how many idolators did Moses take out of Egypt?Tnchatter:
and that actually is close to the source for not teaching Torah to idolaters --- in order to be allowed to dwell among us, a non-Jew must be a Noachidegershon_ben_franja_l:
better define "dwell among us."gershon_ben_franja_l:
In order to stand in the gentile court at the Temple, you had to follow the noachide commandmentsTnchatter:
living within our communities - perhaps only obligatory within Israel, but good guidanceTnchatter:
I think we accepted offerings even from non-noachide gentile nations who wished to send them....Tnchatter:
all worshipped G-d theregershon_ben_franja_l:
Do you live in the U.S>Tnchatter:
yupgershon_ben_franja_l:
Do americans live among you or do you live among americansTnchatter:
you are asking what I think or what they think 8-)gershon_ben_franja_l:
lol, good pointgershon_ben_franja_l:
1 Jew = 1,000 palestiniansTnchatter:
in my house I operate at my full standardgershon_ben_franja_l:
funny they never get thatgershon_ben_franja_l:
All my friends are JewishTnchatter:
the terrorists make that judgement in their demandsgershon_ben_franja_l:
yesTnchatter:
when the antisemite says Jews are responsible for all the wrongs in the world --- he's right, but for the wrong reasongershon_ben_franja_l:
Why don't you ask your rabbi a simple question, if you would. I've asked this to my Rabbi of Blessed MemoryTnchatter:
I see a rabbi online in paltalk nowgershon_ben_franja_l:
If you are teaching Torah in an open room in Paltalk and a non-Jew comes in to listen politely are you required to let that person stay.Tnchatter:
have asked other variants of that questiongershon_ben_franja_l:
And if the answer is no, then how did Ruth find out about the Torah?gershon_ben_franja_l:
and how did ziporah find out about the Torahgershon_ben_franja_l:
and how did Yitro find out about the Torahgershon_ben_franja_l:
and how did Nebudchanezzer find out about the Torahgershon_ben_franja_l:
I could go on and onTnchatter:
the particular rabbi I see online seems to be quite liberal as to whether paltalk has a din of a beis medrash....Tnchatter:
yet for others, such as the Torah Nation crew majority....Tnchatter:
paltalk is their Beis MedrashTnchatter:
and they surely have the right to be strict.gershon_ben_franja_l:
And I have the right to vett them right backTnchatter:
not sure about thatgershon_ben_franja_l:
I'm strict about who I'll hang around with, tooTnchatter:
in one user's room paltalk lets them do anything they wantgershon_ben_franja_l:
They were a little confused about who was being tested in that roomTnchatter:
look at it this way please....gershon_ben_franja_l:
It was me testing them.Tnchatter:
if you would actually give straight answers to their 5 questions one time, you would then have the right to ask tough questions back, like your tziporah and rus analogiesgershon_ben_franja_l:
They don't have straight questionsTnchatter:
peace among the vetters may be possiblegershon_ben_franja_l:
I understand one of the questions they ask now is "Do you deny that person ever existed?"Tnchatter:
actually they are pretty straightgershon_ben_franja_l:
Ok, I'll answer them one time and then I'll leavegershon_ben_franja_l:
As I'll have no part of that groupgershon_ben_franja_l:
but if that will make them happyTnchatter:
each of us are stringent on not typing that mythical figure's names, so I cannot actually type their questions out to you here nowgershon_ben_franja_l:
I don't know if he was mythical or notgershon_ben_franja_l:
it really doesn't matter to megershon_ben_franja_l:
But I will tell you the mythology concept is fairly recentTnchatter:
could begershon_ben_franja_l:
I've seen no references to it in any writtings before this decade in any Jewish writtingsgershon_ben_franja_l:
I do know Ramban debated themTnchatter:
so your rabbi passed away? how long did you know him?gershon_ben_franja_l:
that one almost 3 yearsgershon_ben_franja_l:
I have another nowgershon_ben_franja_l:
if you want to ask me the questions, I'll answergershon_ben_franja_l:
just use "that name" or something for that nameTnchatter:
here's text from room with Tiziri's vet of another:Tnchatter:
tiziri20023: nathan671, PLEASE, take no personal offense but ALL new comers to the room are asked a series of questions to determine their provenance. Read the questions CAREFULLY and answer them PROMPTLY, as directed. Your cooperation will help expedite the process. Please acknowledge that you understand.tiziri20023: nathan671, 1st Question: What is your religion ? Jewish, Christian Muslim, etc.? - ONE WORD RESPONSE PLEASE in text and standby for further questions.
nathan671: following jewish
tiziri20023: In other words, you are not a Jew?
tiziri20023: Was your mother Jewish?
nathan671: right
*** tomli_1 has joined the group ***
amunhotep-iv: I'm taking aggrenox, meclizine (anti-vert), norvasc and dyazide and they dno't mix with alcohol
nathan671: no
tiziri20023: If you are not a Jew, you cannot follow the Jewish religion
tiziri20023: 2nd Question: Do you accept or deny jesus christ as your lord and savior? Please type in text "accept" or "deny" and stand by for more questions.
nathan671: why not iterest me
nathan671: deny
amunhotep-iv: errrrrrr?
tiziri20023: nathan671, 3rd Question: Do you accept or deny jesus christ as the messiah? Please type in text "accept" or "deny" and stand by for one more question.
nathan671: deny
tiziri20023: nathan, it is prohibited for non-Jews to follow the laws given to the Jews. You can follow the 7 laws of Noah, however, since that was for all nations.
tiziri20023: nathan671, 4th Question: Do you accept or deny Yeshua/ Yashua/Yehoshua as EITHER savior OR Messiah? Please type in text "accept" or "deny."
nathan671: deny
tiziri20023: nathan671, 5th Question, Do you deny baptism in and salvation through or by the holy spirit?
nathan671: yes
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tiziri20023: nathan671, Read the question carefully: - Question: Do you unreservedly and without qualification curse the names and personages jesus christ, yeshua, yashua, and yahoshua, or any other name the historical figure is known by? If so, please respond "Yes, may his name be cursed."
Tnchatter:
I don't think I have the standing with the Torah Nation admins to actually administer a vetgershon_ben_franja_l:
no, halachally his name cannot be cursed as it's halachally wrong to curse the name someone uses for their g-dTnchatter:
so maybe you can check that further?gershon_ben_franja_l:
and to curse something admits it exists, doesn't it?gershon_ben_franja_l:
it kind of gives it credibilityTnchatter:
see if your rabbi can speak to the mocking idolatry issue - to reconcilegershon_ben_franja_l:
Oh, I've been through this with my rabbiTnchatter:
no - the point of the question is if it doesn't exist, then a curse means nothing?gershon_ben_franja_l:
I've been through the torah nation vetting with my rabbigershon_ben_franja_l:
it is a lieTnchatter:
but someone to whom it means somehting cannot cursegershon_ben_franja_l:
which kind of curse?gershon_ben_franja_l:
an allah?gershon_ben_franja_l:
lessee, how would I give an allah to something that doesn't existTnchatter:
oy - the curse need not be anything significantgershon_ben_franja_l:
if you exist then may such and such happen to you?Tnchatter:
saying it doesn't exist is probably enough of a curse!gershon_ben_franja_l:
it's a silly thing to curse something that doesn't exixtTnchatter:
saying "good morning" to someone is a brochogershon_ben_franja_l:
well, look at it this wayTnchatter:
idolatry is sillygershon_ben_franja_l:
why not ask me if I'd curse buddha?gershon_ben_franja_l:
which I wouldn't btw.Tnchatter:
apparently the question author believes that no x-tian would ever be able to curse their deitygershon_ben_franja_l:
yes, but he doesn't know a Jew shouldn't eitherTnchatter:
maybe that's not universalgershon_ben_franja_l:
because we agreed we can't mention the namegershon_ben_franja_l:
once we agree we can't mention the name then it's impossible to curse it, isn't it?Tnchatter:
I suspect I am more stringent than required in that areaTnchatter:
but don't have any intention of changinggershon_ben_franja_l:
me tooTnchatter:
my reasons are a bit differentgershon_ben_franja_l:
I don't mention the name of their book eithergershon_ben_franja_l:
nor any of the writers in their bookTnchatter:
I don't log into paltalk Judaism section so that my family can become familiar with foreign mattersgershon_ben_franja_l:
nor will I address any rebuttal of anything in their bookTnchatter:
and my kids are often aroundgershon_ben_franja_l:
I just won't discuss itgershon_ben_franja_l:
ok, next question please.Tnchatter:
have you come across any x-tian worshippers in the Judaism section who wanted dialog?Tnchatter:
questions from me? you are asking for next question?gershon_ben_franja_l:
yes, and I don't answer themgershon_ben_franja_l:
yes, from the vettingTnchatter:
I believe the text I pasted from the room includes all of Tiziri's vetting questions- and asks each person to take the mic to say a few wordsgershon_ben_franja_l:
pleaseTnchatter:
tiziri20023: nathan671, PLEASE, take no personal offense but ALL new comers to the room are asked a series of questions to determine their provenance. Read the questions CAREFULLY and answer them PROMPTLY, as directed. Your cooperation will help expedite the process. Please acknowledge that you understand.tiziri20023: nathan671, 1st Question: What is your religion ? Jewish, Christian Muslim, etc.? - ONE WORD RESPONSE PLEASE in text and standby for further questions.
nathan671: following jewish
tiziri20023: In other words, you are not a Jew?
tiziri20023: Was your mother Jewish?
nathan671: right
*** tomli_1 has joined the group ***
amunhotep-iv: I'm taking aggrenox, meclizine (anti-vert), norvasc and dyazide and they dno't mix with alcohol
nathan671: no
tiziri20023: If you are not a Jew, you cannot follow the Jewish religion
tiziri20023: 2nd Question: Do you accept or deny jesus christ as your lord and savior? Please type in text "accept" or "deny" and stand by for more questions.
nathan671: why not iterest me
nathan671: deny
amunhotep-iv: errrrrrr?
tiziri20023: nathan671, 3rd Question: Do you accept or deny jesus christ as the messiah? Please type in text "accept" or "deny" and stand by for one more question.
nathan671: deny
tiziri20023: nathan, it is prohibited for non-Jews to follow the laws given to the Jews. You can follow the 7 laws of Noah, however, since that was for all nations.
tiziri20023: nathan671, 4th Question: Do you accept or deny Yeshua/ Yashua/Yehoshua as EITHER savior OR Messiah? Please type in text "accept" or "deny."
nathan671: deny
tiziri20023: nathan671, 5th Question, Do you deny baptism in and salvation through or by the holy spirit?
nathan671: yes
*** baby000 has joined the group ***
tiziri20023: nathan671, Read the question carefully: - Question: Do you unreservedly and without qualification curse the names and personages jesus christ, yeshua, yashua, and yahoshua, or any other name the historical figure is known by? If so, please respond "Yes, may his name be cursed."
gershon_ben_franja_l:
sorry, I missed itTnchatter:
did you see her 5 questions?gershon_ben_franja_l:
here it comesgershon_ben_franja_l:
1. Jewishgershon_ben_franja_l:
2. my mother was halachally Jewishgershon_ben_franja_l:
denygershon_ben_franja_l:
3. dehygershon_ben_franja_l:
4 denygershon_ben_franja_l:
5 denygershon_ben_franja_l:
see, the only difficulty I have is the cursing as that doesn't follow halachah as I understand it.gershon_ben_franja_l:
but I never mention the nameTnchatter:
I think 5 is a yes/no ?Tnchatter:
and you have a typo in 3gershon_ben_franja_l:
yesgershon_ben_franja_l:
had to read it carefullygershon_ben_franja_l:
3. denygershon_ben_franja_l:
i'd be curious to see the av for cursing any name of a Jewgershon_ben_franja_l:
see, there is a little problem with 1.Tnchatter:
1 or 5?gershon_ben_franja_l:
In order to curse that person, you'd have to agree that person existed in substantially the same way as there is in their bookgershon_ben_franja_l:
question 1.gershon_ben_franja_l:
Which I don'tTnchatter:
1 asks religiongershon_ben_franja_l:
grr,gershon_ben_franja_l:
- Question: Do you unreservedly and without qualification curse the names and personages jesus christ, yeshua, yashua, and yahoshua, or any other name the historical figure is known by? If so, please respond "Yes, may his name be cursed."gershon_ben_franja_l:
this oneTnchatter:
the author of the questions says that something which doesn't exist should have no hesitation in saying - yes I would curse the nothingnessgershon_ben_franja_l:
I think the book has been added to, cut and pasted and all kinds of things done to it.gershon_ben_franja_l:
except there is a problemgershon_ben_franja_l:
that is the name another group uses for their godgershon_ben_franja_l:
and we aren't allowed to do thatgershon_ben_franja_l:
Remember Elijah burned up all the high priests of Baal?gershon_ben_franja_l:
Is there EVER a single instance in the Tanach where a false god was cursed by a man?gershon_ben_franja_l:
I look for my answers in Torah. If it's ok to curse a false god, there would be a case of it.gershon_ben_franja_l:
brbTnchatter:
greatgershon_ben_franja_l:
backTnchatter:
still heregershon_ben_franja_l:
which word for curse is intended in the question in Hebrew?Tnchatter:
I have no idea LOLgershon_ben_franja_l:
There are twoTnchatter:
take the least strong meaning I guessgershon_ben_franja_l:
May you be like that person if you behave in such and such a mannergershon_ben_franja_l:
I can't use that because I don't think that person they talk about was substantially like what is in their bookgershon_ben_franja_l:
that would be allahgershon_ben_franja_l:
or qallah which would only be used for a living persongershon_ben_franja_l:
am I to admit that person is alive?gershon_ben_franja_l:
see, both of them have a difficulty in admitting I believe something I don't believeTnchatter:
how about: curse the murder of millions of Jews done in the name of the x-tian deity?gershon_ben_franja_l:
fongershon_ben_franja_l:
well, first let me make clear about 50 of my family was in that murdergershon_ben_franja_l:
and let me ask you this. Does everything come from G-d or doesn't it?Tnchatter:
sorry to hear about the 50gershon_ben_franja_l:
thanksTnchatter:
its something that very many Jews cannot get beyondgershon_ben_franja_l:
my grandmother was the only survivor in her family as she left Poland in 1904gershon_ben_franja_l:
Can we curse what G-d allowed to happen?Tnchatter:
sure - doesn't the Torah call it the "evil" done to people?Tnchatter:
the plagues?gershon_ben_franja_l:
yes, and who created evil (Yeshiah 45:7)Tnchatter:
I've lerned about that term -- its what we perceive as evil eventhough it is all from Hashemgershon_ben_franja_l:
exactlyTnchatter:
so on a simple term, it is evilTnchatter:
on a simple levelgershon_ben_franja_l:
oseh shalom ou borei choshekgershon_ben_franja_l:
no, that's wronggershon_ben_franja_l:
yotzer or ou borei choshekgershon_ben_franja_l:
who sent forth light and created darknessgershon_ben_franja_l:
7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things. {P}gershon_ben_franja_l:
that's yeshayah 45:7gershon_ben_franja_l:
the word for evil is ragershon_ben_franja_l:
so, do we believe the Tanach or don't we?Tnchatter:
sounds good to megershon_ben_franja_l:
In another 20 years we will be able to give an honest answer to the questionTnchatter:
whether we believe is a different question than whether we fully comprehend LOLgershon_ben_franja_l:
it has to do with understanding the cup of salvation and what the wine in it isgershon_ben_franja_l:
we are sent afflictions to bring us closergershon_ben_franja_l:
but don't say that to someone who was in a campgershon_ben_franja_l:
but I know a guy who was in the campsgershon_ben_franja_l:
and each erev shabbat they would twist two pieces of toilet papergershon_ben_franja_l:
and light them for their shabbat candlesTnchatter:
after liberation? or that was what they did in the camp?gershon_ben_franja_l:
in the camp'gershon_ben_franja_l:
want to hear about the liberation?Tnchatter:
suregershon_ben_franja_l:
they were liberated by the russiansgershon_ben_franja_l:
when the russians saw what had been done to the Jews they asked the Jews what they should do to the Germansgershon_ben_franja_l:
they offered to kill them, torture them or whatevergershon_ben_franja_l:
they said "Just forgive them"Tnchatter:
if I could roll back timegershon_ben_franja_l:
you can, Robgershon_ben_franja_l:
Time has no meaning to a Jewgershon_ben_franja_l:
we can affect the past as well as the futureTnchatter:
I mean I'd want to amend their answer a bitgershon_ben_franja_l:
if enough of us follow Torah, the halocaust will have not happenedgershon_ben_franja_l:
you weren't theregershon_ben_franja_l:
let me ask you, what happened during the missing 38 years in the desert?Tnchatter:
they never found the nickelgershon_ben_franja_l:
lol, it was a half shekelTnchatter:
gershon_ben_franja_l:
Moshe lost it his first time throughgershon_ben_franja_l:
but seriously, why isn't it written about?gershon_ben_franja_l:
And why does the Hebrew dialect change dramatically before and after the break which occurred in Chukas?Tnchatter:
alright, so I heard a great shiur, and added something to it....Tnchatter:
why 2 Shabbos in a row?gershon_ben_franja_l:
Chukas has a 38 year break in itTnchatter:
it has to be a Shabbos which was after 6 days, not 200 days, of workgershon_ben_franja_l:
first the red heifergershon_ben_franja_l:
then MiriamTnchatter:
a Jew's relationship with Hashem is both servant and songershon_ben_franja_l:
a 38 year break with a HUGE change in the dialect in the Hebrew.Tnchatter:
if father has slave mentality, then cannot really raise son as a fatherTnchatter:
we needed a father who had a fatherTnchatter:
hence we needed 40 yearsTnchatter:
2 generationsgershon_ben_franja_l:
yes, I've heard that, alsogershon_ben_franja_l:
my opinion is we later learned all the lessons of that 38 years, so it was erasedgershon_ben_franja_l:
an example of the future affecting the pastTnchatter:
i need to go afk a bit --- let me leave you with this:gershon_ben_franja_l:
okTnchatter:
i am not a Torah Nation admin.Tnchatter:
I do otvet.Tnchatter:
I do not vet.gershon_ben_franja_l:
okgershon_ben_franja_l:
I don't eitherTnchatter:
but here you've had a good chance to see what the quesitons are really about and decide for yourself, without anger....gershon_ben_franja_l:
I don't have angerTnchatter:
if you want to come into Toras' room on his terms and vet I'll gladly help get the door opengershon_ben_franja_l:
rob, I would answer the questions once and then leavegershon_ben_franja_l:
I won't participate in what is so clearly wrongTnchatter:
fair enoughTnchatter:
and you could also come back and ask some questions and say why you think it wrong!Tnchatter:
that's on your terms to choose what to dogershon_ben_franja_l:
I'd rather discuss this week's parashasTnchatter:
but no need to be upset about themgershon_ben_franja_l:
Bet they haven't mentioned Balak once tonightgershon_ben_franja_l:
I'm not upsetgershon_ben_franja_l:
Why should I be upset?gershon_ben_franja_l:
They are there to teach a lessonTnchatter:
I don't think sogershon_ben_franja_l:
ok, so, their vetting is a distraction from Torah studygershon_ben_franja_l:
In the time you and I have been talking which has been about an hour, we could have studied Rashigershon_ben_franja_l:
or perhaps the Kedushat Levi or someonegershon_ben_franja_l:
or Kli Yakargershon_ben_franja_l:
and seen what they had to say about the ParashaTnchatter:
I've been multitaskinggershon_ben_franja_l:
Or maybe translated a little Ramban. Do they ever do any translating?gershon_ben_franja_l:
okTnchatter:
yes - Torah Nation room does a lot of learningTnchatter:
cannot say its as much learning as other roomsTnchatter:
but usually I'm asleep at the keyboardTnchatter:
when I'm ingershon_ben_franja_l:
they keep people from G-dgershon_ben_franja_l:
they make people trying to come back feel badgershon_ben_franja_l:
and so they go back where they came from so they can feel lovedgershon_ben_franja_l:
and they forget G-dTnchatter:
nah - Torah Nation room doesn't keep people from G-d or Torah!Tnchatter:
its great for many peopleTnchatter:
not right for allgershon_ben_franja_l:
I've hard it over and overgershon_ben_franja_l:
people put in tears by themgershon_ben_franja_l:
and wondering if they should even read Torah or not anymoregershon_ben_franja_l:
heard itgershon_ben_franja_l:
Rob, were you born Jewish?gershon_ben_franja_l:
Let me ask it a different waygershon_ben_franja_l:
suppose you were kidnapped for 10 yearsTnchatter:
maybe you haven't heard accurate accounts, only misunderstood complaints?gershon_ben_franja_l:
and when you came back not a single Jew in the world would accept you?gershon_ben_franja_l:
I've been on the receiving end from themgershon_ben_franja_l:
and the recountings are the sameTnchatter:
must be sad and hard on a person -- without a halfway house!gershon_ben_franja_l:
it's overwhelminggershon_ben_franja_l:
many people have been kidnapped for a couple generationsTnchatter:
yesgershon_ben_franja_l:
and their souls have come back and they want to come to Torahgershon_ben_franja_l:
the first time they see the Torah, the tears stream from their eyesgershon_ben_franja_l:
many sob uncontrollably because they know they are homegershon_ben_franja_l:
and then they come to Torah nation and get told that because they were kidnapped they aren't welcome as Jewsgershon_ben_franja_l:
G-d forbid I should be a part of a group that does this to Jewish souls in a second halocaustgershon_ben_franja_l:
I can say without equivocation: Cursed be the "Torah nation" that does this.Tnchatter:
very many moving stories.... many different scenarios.... the Holocaust survivor who only knew aleph-beis.... the baal teshuva..... the child of a Jew kidnapped by vaticanTnchatter:
huh?Tnchatter:
who does what?gershon_ben_franja_l:
you can copy that into the room if you likegershon_ben_franja_l:
who rejects Jewish souls trying to come backTnchatter:
Jews who vet you curse?Tnchatter:
but a mythical idolatrous deity you cannot?gershon_ben_franja_l:
I curse the room "torah nation" for rejecting Jewish souls trying to come backTnchatter:
I am very confused.gershon_ben_franja_l:
There is a difference: That room is realTnchatter:
keep typing if you want - I must be afk for a bitgershon_ben_franja_l:
ok, me toogershon_ben_franja_l:
backgershon_ben_franja_l:
As I learn more Hebrew I'm losing the ability to think in Englishgershon_ben_franja_l:
a curse is not something you place on someonegershon_ben_franja_l:
It's something you recognize exists. Like when Noach cursed Canaan.gershon_ben_franja_l:
He said something like Canaan is cursedgershon_ben_franja_l:
I recognize the concept of midah ceneged midah in Torah nationgershon_ben_franja_l:
they are rejecting Jews trying to come back, so each person that participates in that room will be rejected by their communitygershon_ben_franja_l:
so, I can say without equivocation "Cursed are those who go to the Torah nation chat room"gershon_ben_franja_l:
as I can see through a clear mirror they will be rejectedgershon_ben_franja_l:
http://www.debra-darcy.com/paltalk.htmlgershon_ben_franja_l:
a catholic trying to come back who was rejected