the problem is in the number of people Q: can we return to eden? A: how many people were in eden? R: two RR: one, two and there were too many Q: thus Grand unification is the path to peace...? R: wrong, what followed peace? < rhetorical A: well... not peace, then peace, and so on and in certain locations/certain times Exactly, unidirectional cycles. cyclical/repetitive nature of everything. Q: do we even want peace? A: what kind? peace of mind, lack of movement, lack of intentional conflict? R: you're right, i'm being too abstract. humanity, no beings, have no destination or purpose as a whole. each individual has its goals, either given to it or decided by itself. thus the goal of each being (when the numbers are great: multiples of 1) gets in the way of others if they are in contact. this disregards what those goals are whether it is materialism, peace, war, power, whatever people in contact get in each others way. Q: but how about love? A: that's silly. love is a chemical response designed to unite individuals in a way to improve their survival chances/prolong the survival of their group. the act of love however is both to promote reproduction and to grant the experience of the loss of self and the unity of all things for a few moments, meditation/contemplation gives similar results. though love is about unification, it works through individuals who WILL not and CAN not deny their individuality. one can but lose themselves for a moment before they come right back. And as individuals they cannot unify. Q: but greater things can unify people in joint efforts right? like disasters and whatnot. A: this is the cyclical nature again. disasters are not constant nor are the various "unifications". to be truly unified there can be only one or none without the possibility of growth or decay. to lack that possibility would be beyond the bounds of existence. Q: so people who find peace here don't remain peaceful? A: correct. nor will they find that peace elsewhere. a kind of peace that is more flexible is the understanding and acceptance of the rules and therefore the state of existence however it is. Q: keeping one's cool while their arm is torn off eh? A: kind of. the rule that applies to that situation is the impermanence of the material and maybe other things too (ideas, thoughts, dreams, etc.) acceptance of that rule makes one realize that they would lose their arm eventually though how it happens varies. Q: back to the unification idea, can it happen? where are we headed next? A: however it happens (being forced or deciding) we will start relying on ourselves/bodies again. there will not be enough resources to brace everyone and possibily anyone and people will return to a more natural state, where survival takes up more time rather than leisure. this of course won't last either. cycles, we could infact push too far in one direction crash and come back up. or become extinct and be replaced. doesn't matter because of the lack of permanent progress. Q: ok, i see these rules. is that why we have always felt the need to free ourselves from nature? (breaking the egg, the world from the inside?) as we have done from ancient times in the form of escapist religion, philosophy (plato's "ideas"), industrialization, drugs. A: the rules can be fairly daunting and disheartening. but that is why acceptance of the rules is necessary. so we can live our lives in a world that encompasses EVERYTHING to the fullest. Q: but isn't that just pursuing just material world things? A: it can be anything, including helping other people achieve their dreams. but there is no escape from the rules, this world, this existence. Q: is there something great enough to shatter this world and its rules? A: it would have to be something from the Outside, we can only work with what we have here and everything here follows the rules. the rules don't allow anything to break them that falls under them. Q: so there is no escape. we should just pursue pointless pursuits? A: Yes, or not care at all and become a cog, or floating leaf that is guided by what happens around it.