ARGUMENT 2

(This was a posting on a religion board)

People do not believe in God. They believe in a book, written by man, called the bible that says their is a God.

Like I said in a post elsewhere tonight. How many people have seen God? Moses? One person who went up on a mountain and came down a week later with 2 tablets of stone with the word of God on them?

Maybe Moses was gone so long because it took him that long to carve the tablets himself? When he saw God what did he see? A burning bush. Maybe Moses was smoking that bush.

What miracles did God perform in the bible? He turned Moses staff into a snake. Oooh! The pharohs mage ended up doing the same trick.

Only God won this trick because his snake ate the other snake.

The 7 plagues? Locusts? Yeah like that never happens anyways lol.

What does God do? He kills all the first born? Does not matter that they are innocent but all the first born die. To punish who? The pharo of Egpyt? What God kills the innocent? Would you worship a God that kills all the first born?

The bible says God is a jealous God. The bible also says if your righthand causes you to stumble to cut it off. An eye for an eye.

The greeks had many gods and some religions have no gods. The bible says to have faith. Faith in what? God or a book written by man that says there is a God?

Why would i believe a book written by man that says their is a god when man can be evil and lie like it is second nature?

The lost scrolls that were found, the writings of Jesus were covered up by the church. Why? Because Jesus taught that God can not be found in a building of stone or wood. That God is found withtin you. Why would the church try to cover this up?

Stories in the paper, altar boys sexually abused by priests. So what is pure and so good about the church? The bible, church and religon are all created by man. Where is God and why should I believe in him or her?

The bible makes no sense. If man is created in the image of God, we are Gods children then why is life so random.

In some ways humans are far superior to all other life on the planet. We do things and alter the enviroment in ways no other life can. We tend to think we are the most intelligent.

Are we really? Prety much the only life on this planet that will kill our own just for the hell of it or because we have a bad day.

Now of all life on this planet humans are the only ones created in the image of God. Now if we are created in the image of God, his children and special in some way why is it humans have a very weak immune system comapared to other life on the planet such as the shark or aligator.

Why are we so prone to disease and infection compared to other life. Unless evolution really is a factor with what we are or will be?

When my mom almost died I got on my knees and I praid. I needed a God, something to believe in and there will probably be times again that I do so. How can I believe in a God, pray to a God and have such doubts if there is one?

It makes no sense to me. Why would God give us life? So we can suffer? Watch the ones around us live and die? Why are we so sad at funerals?

If we know our loved ones have gone to heaven and we will see them again why are we not happy?

Sure we miss them but if we knew for certain there was a heaven I would not be sad so sad if someone in my family died. I would know they were in heaven and I would see them again.

Religion seems more like a law to me. A way to put fear into man and to create law and order.

I want proof.

Did the universe always exits or did it have a beginning?

Here is my simple answer to this riddle:

Something can not come from nothing. Nothing can only exist as long as there is something that can recognize there is nothing.

Think about it. Read that carefully and run it through your head. You have to have some idea of energey and matter to completely understand it.

The universe is a paradox. If something can not come from nothing and everything must have a beginning...how can either be true?

Wouldn't that suggest there is a 3rd option. Something we have not thought of or can't even comprehend?

Lets says there is a God, well he didn't just pop into existence did he? He came from somewhere. He was not just there one moment and God. So what he had parents? They had parents? Everything has a beginning.

Is that true? God did have a beginning? If it is he was created. So lets say he did have parents and so did they. Perhaps not always Gods. Plausible.

Lets do the flip-side on that. God always existed. He always was a God. Is that possible? No?

Simple answer is God would have no previous memory. Why? God would have knowledge of every day of his existence. How far back can he remember? When is his earliest memory? When did it all begin for him?

This is where everything breaks apart. So how can all this be?
Is there a simple answer to this big riddle that binds everything together? Do you want to know what it is?

What if it is so simple. What if I said you know the answer and because of that will never figure it out.

Maybe I could blow your mind if I told you what it is. Do you know what it is? Come on all you have to do is think about it ;)

People report of seeing spirits. He challenges you on the inside how? This makes him real and a God because? :)

Lets take a newborn child. You hear of cases of them being kept locked in rooms, never expsosed to the outside world. Finally rescued by authorities, their parents locked up. The child unable to speak or read.

So lets say we have an newborn child. It is not taught about God, religion, not even given a name. Would that child believe in God? Would that child as it aged into an adult believe? Would he even understand what he really is?

That is on a large rock, flying through space at 60,000 mph around a large burning ball known as the sun or would he have to be taught this?

You and Ibelieve what we do because we are taught to. Some people believe people of a different color are inferior? Were they born with that knowledge or taught?

You believe in a book that says there is a God because you were taught to believe in it. Your view on the world, what is real, what is not as well is what is wrong and right depends on what you were taught and told to believe.

A told a friend she would believe I was God if I told her things I could not possibly know.

This is a female I don't know personally. Only someone I talk to online. So unless you believe I am God already I don't know her personally.

I knew her first name. I told her, her address. I got it wrong the first guess but exactly right on the 2nd guess. Told her, her name, address, phone number, dads name and even her postal code.

I purposely made a mistake on the first guess a couple of times. Anyways she was very freaked out. Said how the hell could I know all this :)

If I gave the exact info on here the very first time she woud have been suspicious and I was playing the role of the psychic somewhat.

So I did know exactly what she see on tv. Knew her exact first and last name, her address, phone number which really freaked her out heh :)

Tell me how could I know all this?
Very easy to do sometimes ;)

I hope I have some of you thinking.
How many of you really think about what and where you actually are?

In simplest terms you are on a massive ball of fire, covered by a very thin layer of rock, flying through space at incredible speeds.

Every second thousands of neutrinos pass through your body and never touch a molecule. You have billions of tiny creatures living on you, smaller then your hair on your eyelashes and on them live smaller creatures.

Ants are giants compared to what is living on you. Imagine the brain size of such creatures. That scientists now think cells throughtout the body play a big part in memory not just cells of the brain.

Markers on the end of our genes control how often our cells divide and when there is no longer cell division death occurs. Change those markers, or genes which has been done on fruit flies etc and life is doubled or can be extended even further.

Every piece of dna being mapped, soon cancer will be stopped, life extended, no disease and the time of humans playing God is here.

Compare how fast civilization advanced before the 1900's. In 100 years with cpu speed doubling every 8 months where do you think we will be?

Maybe you have an answer to how thousands of years ago, Buddhists had a map of our entire solar system. How could that be possible when pluto was not discovered till the 1950's with a high powered telescope?

So how can a planet, if you can call it a planet, being so small at the dge of our solar system, that can not be seen with the naked eye be known so many thousands of years ago?

If you do some research on that you will have one answer why.

The speed of light in a vacuum is commonly given the symbol c. It is a universal constant that has the value

c = 3 x 10 power of 10 cm/second

So at the speed of light you reach infinite mass. What if you are a very large person? Would you reach infinite mass sooner? ; )

Lets say you could travel at any speed you wished or better yet lets say you are God. You could be anywhere in the universe in an instant.

Just to visit every star in the universe one right after the other instantly would take an eternity.

So lets bring time travel into play. The faster you travel the slower time passes for you. At first this does not create much of a problem. You leave earth travelling close to the speed of light. You get back and you have aged very little compared to everyone else on earth, that is if this is a very short journey.

This does not create to much of a problem because you are not travelling back in time. What happens when you exceed the speed of light or if wormholes or superstrings are possible?

Mass distorts space and time. Our sun creates a bigger bend in space and time then our planet. Traveling through that bent space / time, the less effect time has on you.

So lets say you enter a wormhole and pop out on the other end of the universe almost instantly. Because you have crossed such a distance in almost no time you are going back in time.

Lets say you come back through that wormhole. Now you arrive at a time before you existed. You arrive at a time before the wormhole even existed. Not possible is it?

The phone rings. You know who it is. You have not talked to the person in years but you pick up the phone and it is them. This has happened and will happen to many people.

If this hasn't happened to you well you are missing out :) Many of you will read it and go yeah thats happened to me or similar.

The neat thing is how does that tie into everything and why ;)

Wow this human form is kinda interesting.

So where were we ah yes :)

E=Mc2

How can light exist as both a wave and a particle? In the 3rd dimensional world that we live in is that possible?

Accoording to the lastest theories we are up to how many possible dimensions? 10 - 15?

So lets say you exist in the 4th or 5th dimension how would you view light compared to we do?

First of all it is impossible for you to even try and imagine that even though science says such dimensions have to exist.

Any being in that dimension would be a God so some say. They would be able to interact and influence us in ways oblivious to us.

So if we are 3 dimensional beings in a 3 dimensional world would we not have the same control over 2 dimensional or single dimensional life?

Where are these single and 2 dimensional beings you ask? Does it make your head hurt? ;)

Ok lets say I am God for a minute. That is not to far off from the truth now is it? ;)

Ok now I am going to create a billions galaxies, there is that many or more. In each galaxy I will create a billion planets.

Multiply that and you get a large number that would give many computers a headache if you try and calculate the possibilties of life.

Ok now lets say we are special. In such an insane large space, with zillions of planets, lets just say ours is the only one with life.

God went way out of his way to amaze us with his power. Why create such a vast universe to amaze us. Yet when it comes to him making himself known to us he only does so in a bible?

I can look at and understand almost why everything is the way it is but when you throw God and the universe into it, well things get a little confusing. Even for me ;)

Why would I create such an elaborate universe for life to exist only on a tiny spec of the universe? Because I had nothing better to do at the time?

Ok so now I will create man and woman. Mmm yes woman. I will give them life.

Here is the kicker, lol you are all gonna love this but you will all die and you wil get to watch the ones you love around you die!

Wooohoo this is sweet.

But not to worry. Because if you read in the bible you will know that when you die you will go to heaven. Yes I know it seems cruel, why would I make you have a mortal body and watch the ones you love around you die.

It is simple. It is so you will suffer. Why else would heaven be so sweet if you did not have to suffer as you do now on earth?

I want you my children to suffer for me. Sure being a God and never having to experience how you suffer might make me cold to what you experience and how you feel but that is not imporant.

All you need is faith and to know that I am your God.
Now you bad boys better listen up otherwise you will go to hell!
Hell you say? Ok lets think about this from a mothers point of view shall we? :)

Ok Mrs Clark yes you, your husband, and 2 daugthers are allowed here in heaven but your son well *COUGH* if he did not blow up that bulding ending the life of 372 people, well he would be here now as well.
Is heaven really going to be heaven for that family knowing their son is rotting in hell? Would they protest? Everyone has a dark side but most of us have enough control not to act on it.
Not all of us are perfect and there are times when some family members are not as innocent as others.

So tell me this. If there is a heaven and you are a parent. Will heaven really be heaven knowing your child is in hell?

Isn't suicide the biggest sin of all. I mean God gives you life. The most precious gift of all, so oyu might be one of the unlucky humans and most of your life is pure suffering and you simply can't take it anymore.
So you decide to end you life. I mean to take your life, life has to be pretty bad to go that far. But hey you get to look forward to a life of hell when you do.

How do we humans know all these rules created by a God we have never seen. I know I sound very cold saying this but I can't help but think about it and it makes no sense to me at all.

Sorry. I want there to be a God but it doesnt add up.

What is the point of life. You could view it as a learning step. Say it is like the metamorphisis of a caterpilar to a moth. One life ending and a new one beginning.

In our case we die and our soul lives on? If you believe that. So we live our life, learn, and then die. When we do we go to heaven and become immortal it would be sweet. That alone would would put you in a state of heaven.

Think of it, you died and now are immortal. No longer disease or suffering for anyone. That alone could be bliss. Anything above and beyond that and heaven is really starting to look sweet.

So if there were a God you could argue that is why we were given life first. I have always thought if there is a God why have life and such suffering and looking at it this way I could understand it but doesn't mean I like it.

Now if I was God why would I not make an apppearance, at least once during the thousands of years man has existed.

If we are created in his image, his children that he loves why would he be so elusive. Only known to us as a story thousands of years old?

God makes an appearance! Imagine reading that in the headlines of a newspaper. You were perhaps one of millions who slept through it, busy working or were on the other side of the world when he made his appearace in uh New York? ;)

God will never show his/her face on this planet. What would he say?

"Hi I decided to finally pop in and for the first time let all of you know that yes I do exist. Uh so how is it going? Oh I see.... well time for me to go now, buh bye".

Sure God could appear perhaps all over the planet to everyone at once, might be quite the shock waking up late at night to hear God speaking to you and hopefully some of the elderly would not have a heart attack.

Now there are thousands and thousands of people missing. Some people kidnapped. Being used as a sex slave, tortured etc. You read about it in the papers, see it on the news. Right now this is happening to more than one person.
I bet this person who is being held prisoner would be awfully glad if God did finally make an appearance. I would also think God might have a few words with the captor and convince him what he is doing is wrong?

Why allow that to happen at all? We live in a very sick world and there is alot of suffering going on. People being held against there will and I don't think I, as a God, could sit by and let that happen to anyone.

(a response)

Yes, that is the ultimate question. Why does God allow suffering if he is all powerfull and all knowing and all goodness?

I believe that we are the creators of our own suffering and that all suffering on this planet is a result of the misuse of our greatest gift - free choice. According to the law of karma we reap what we sow right? A man delivers a hammer blow to the stomach of his foe. Years later he reforms and lives a moral life. One day he is set upon by a gang of thugs and suffers a terrible wound to his stomach. He cries in vain, 'Lord, lord you have forsaken me! You are not just!' See what I'm saying.

I believe in reincarnation. I believe that souls keep reincarnating until they have transcended all their worldly karma and realised their true nature as a soul - a perfect reflection of God. So, assuming I am right, you carry the karma of past actions and desires with you through all your earthly incarnations and they manifest as when the time is ripe. In this way we are all 100% responsible for everything that happens to us and therefore are 100% in control of our lives albeit unconsciously so.

In my opinion, the big problem with Christianity is that they recognize jesus as the only time God was manifest in fleshly form. There have been instances of saints and yogis becoming liberated whilst on Earth and never losing consciousness of the experience of their oneness with God throughout history. When a soul is liberated like this it is no longer required to return to Earth for another incarnation but can remain permanently in the Astral realm or 'Heaven'. If a soul does reincarnate after it has become liberated then these rare beings known as Avatars are perfect from birth and come for some spectacular purpose then leave as Jesus did. There have been other examples of Avatars apart from Jesus though.

Anyway, these are just my beliefs and I am comfortable with them because they make sense to me.
********

Read this as though you are my child. From the day you are born untill this very moment you have been taught my beliefs. You don't have television or other outside influence to polute your thoughts.

I have taught you how to read, how to write and how to survive. EVERYTHING you know is because of me. I am your father, you respect and trust me. I have taught you what my father has taught me and what his father has taught him.

You do not fear death. Why? Because I have taught you that when it is your time you will be born again in a new form. You will be born again as a hawk. You will soar so high in the heavens.

You have no reason to believe otherwise because I am your father and it is what I have taught you.

You learn and will believe what I say....in most part. You can think for yourself and you might wonder and doubt.

Point is you can be taught to believe in anything, anyone wishes. Your mind can be so easily programmed.

You hold in your hands a book, a great book. It teaches of what is to come. No proof. Only words ... words you have been taught to believe in.

It is the truth ... isnt it?

But wait!
News Flash!
There is more to this lil story. A Tv. Such a wealth of knowledge. You are amazed to see lil people running around in a box. This must be a toy of the Gods.

You watch, you listen to it. What is this talk of other religions? My god people who believe we have what? Souls in us? That when we die we ascend to a haven in the skies. How absurd!

How can the views of so many people differ than yours? Who is right. Their book or yours? What there are more than 2 books? How can there be so many books, so many views of what happens to us when we die. How can this be?

I know of no proof of no God but I know of many books from many cultures that tell me this is right and this is wrong. One God in this culture and many in this other one.

Aren't the jews the only ones who will be truly saved when the time comes? Guess it all depends what book you believe in.
: )


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