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Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum II Archive
# 5 |
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From: Feb 4, 1998 |
To: Feb 13, 1998 |
Page: 4 Of: 5 |
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Seymour -:- Where
are we now? -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 07:28:15 (EST)
___JW -:- Re:
Where are we now? -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 11:53:21 (EST)
___seymour -:- Re:
Where are we now? -:- Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 05:51:14 (EST)
___sorry mom, -:- but
I'm god -:- Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 07:56:53 (EST)
___seymour -:- Re:
but I'm god -:- Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 09:25:08 (EST)
___Selena -:- Re:
but I'm god -:- Mon, Feb 9, 1998 at 12:02:01 (EST)
Mili -:- The
Heart -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 04:02:00 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re:
The Heart -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 13:24:28 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re:
The Heart -:- Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 04:49:38 (EST)
___Anon -:- Re:
The Heart -:- Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 05:58:54 (EST)
___Anon -:- Re:
The Heart -:- Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 06:09:52 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re:
The Heart -:- Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 08:39:29 (EST)
Mili -:- Social
Harmony? -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 03:26:51 (EST)
___For -:- Milificent
-:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 09:46:46 (EST)
___VP -:- Re:
Social Harmony? -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 09:59:16 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re:
Milificent -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 10:19:40 (EST)
___St. -:- Milificent
-:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 10:57:19 (EST)
___JW -:- Re:
Social Harmony? -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 12:29:39 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re:
Social Harmony? -:- Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 05:14:32 (EST)
___living -:- close
up -:- Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 06:55:08 (EST)
___VP
-:- negativity,
again -:- Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 08:55:04 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re:
negativity, again -:- Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 09:02:40 (EST)
___JW -:- Re:
Social Harmony? -:- Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 19:16:40 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re:
Milificent -:- Mon, Feb 9, 1998 at 23:05:57 (EST)
___op -:- Re:
Milificent -:- Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 00:47:38 (EST)
Diver Dan -:- Ann
Johnson aka Annabanna -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 21:38:05 (EST)
___* adios -:- amigo
-:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 23:22:04 (EST)
___JW -:- Re:
Ann Johnson aka Annabanna -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 00:28:50 (EST)
anon premie -:- brainwave
analysisT -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 20:27:04 (EST)
___Anon -:- Re:
brainwave analysisT -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 20:39:53 (EST)
___John K. -:- Re:
brainwave analysisT -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 20:41:39 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re:
brainwave analysisT -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 22:02:45 (EST)
___me -:- Re:
brainwave analysisT -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 23:11:19 (EST)
___overendorphed premie -:- Re:
brainwave analysisT -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 23:33:09 (EST)
___lg -:- Re:
brainwave analysisT -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 09:21:33 (EST)
StephenB -:- Proposal
for Chat Room -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 20:05:47 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re:
Proposal for Chat Room -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 20:35:30 (EST)
___John K. -:- Re:
Proposal for Chat Room -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 20:45:30 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re:
Proposal for Chat Room -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 22:29:00 (EST)
___StephenB -:- Re:
Proposal for Chat Room -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 15:48:52 (EST)
___StephenB -:- John-Why
it's different -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 15:52:46 (EST)
___StephenB -:- Thanks
for the response -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 15:54:01 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re:
I hope you keep posting -:- Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 03:31:13 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re:
Proposal for Chat Room -:- Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 12:31:34 (EST)
Rick -:- Jagdeo
-:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 14:19:13 (EST)
___Katie
-:- Re:
Jagdeo -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 15:19:49 (EST)
___Rick -:- Re:
Jagdeo -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 15:49:14 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re:
Jagdeo -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 17:05:23 (EST)
___JW -:- Re:
Jagdeo -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 17:13:58 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re:
Jagdeo -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 20:49:53 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re:
Jagdeo -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 21:48:07 (EST)
___VP -:- Re:
Jagdeo -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 23:38:32 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re:
Jagdeo -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 00:31:00 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re:
Jagdeo -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 05:59:50 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re:
Jagdeo -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 10:39:46 (EST)
___JW -:- Re:
Jagdeo -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 11:38:22 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re:
Jagdeo -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 11:59:06 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re:
Jagdeo -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 12:58:35 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Instructors
raping premies? -:- Mon, Feb 9, 1998 at 10:52:50 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re:
Jagdeo -:- Mon, Feb 9, 1998 at 12:10:43 (EST)
___JW -:- Re:
Instructors raping premies? -:- Mon, Feb 9, 1998 at 13:14:57 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re:
Instructors raping premies? -:- Mon, Feb 9, 1998 at 13:38:20 (EST)
___VP -:- Re:
Instructors raping premies? -:- Mon, Feb 9, 1998 at 16:25:48 (EST)
___JW -:- Re:
Instructors raping premies? -:- Mon, Feb 9, 1998 at 18:07:43 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re:
Instructors raping premies? -:- Tues, Feb 10, 1998 at 06:16:45 (EST)
___VP -:- Re:
Instructors raping premies? -:- Tues, Feb 10, 1998 at 19:41:08
(EST)
Selena -:- prmie
kids beoming premies -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 11:37:30 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re:
prmie kids beoming premies -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 11:46:29 (EST)
___VP -:- Re:
prmie kids beoming premies -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 15:17:41 (EST)
___Seymour -:- Re:
prmie kids beoming premies -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 07:22:15 (EST)
bongo -:- happy
premie -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 21:44:44 (EST)
___lover of whom? -:- lover
of a fiction. -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 22:11:23 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re:
lover of a fiction. -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 00:26:09 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 01:11:40 (EST)
___G -:- Re:
lover of a fiction. -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 01:12:15 (EST)
___John K. -:- Re:
lover of a fiction. -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 10:19:56 (EST)
___Hello -:- Sir
David -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 10:27:51 (EST)
___Hello there -:- CD
-:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 10:48:00 (EST)
___Selena -:-
Re:
lover of a fiction. -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 10:59:11 (EST)
___bftb -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 14:41:20 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 14:55:44 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 15:33:39 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re:
lover of a fiction. -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 16:10:42 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 16:28:31 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 16:56:12 (EST)
___Selena -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 17:16:09 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re:
Sir David -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 17:20:34 (EST)
___Bongo -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 18:59:47 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 19:22:44 (EST)
___bongo -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 19:37:05 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 19:37:35 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 19:44:53 (EST)
___bongo -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 20:05:38 (EST)
___MOOD -:- SWING
-:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 22:40:31 (EST)
___JW -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 00:24:12 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 00:41:38 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 05:37:46 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Who's
using violence? -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 05:56:01 (EST)
___lg -:- Re:
happy premie -:- Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 09:03:34 (EST)
Brian -:- Broken
forms and virus scares -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 21:09:19 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re:
Broken forms and virus scares -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 21:26:06 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re:
Broken forms and bongo posts -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 21:48:36 (EST)
___VP -:- War
of the Worlds... -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 22:04:10 (EST)
Katie -:- alt.cult.maharaji
on Deja News -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 20:31:34 (EST)
___A pain in your technological behind -:- Off
subject -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 22:53:31 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re:
Off subject -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 23:22:29 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re:
Off subject -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 06:26:59 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re:
old forum and computer stuff -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 10:05:07 (EST)
___VP -:- Re:
old forum and computer stuff -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 10:14:21 (EST)
___VP -:- The
little engine who could -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 10:17:52 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re:
old forum and computer stuff -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 15:33:44
(EST)
John K. -:- History
? -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 11:57:33 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re:
History ? -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 13:20:46 (EST)
___John K. -:- Re:
History ? -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 15:25:26 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Is
this really history? -:- Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 10:23:51 (EST)
Dan Crothers -:- help
-:- Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 23:12:58 (EST)
___VP -:-
Re:
help -:- Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 23:23:07 (EST)
___CD
-:- Re:
help -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 04:03:56 (EST)
___annie ex ottawa -:- Re:
help help help -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 18:26:50 (EST)
___lucille - ottawa -:- Re:
help -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 19:31:16 (EST)
___You want help to -:- get
INTO quicksand? To get INTO a lie? -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 22:24:36
(EST)
(No Thread Start For - "Forum Reset" - )
___VP -:- Re:
Forum Reset -:- Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 22:08:08 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re:
Forum Reset -:- Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 23:07:52 (EST)
___VP -:- Re:
Forum Reset -:- Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 23:45:18 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re:
Forum Reset -:- Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 23:57:13 (EST)
___VP -:- Re:
Forum Reset -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 00:45:29 (EST)
___VP -:- Fear
-:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 00:57:04 (EST)
___Anon -:-
Re:
Forum Reset -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 04:34:58 (EST)
___Katie slightly off topic -:- Re:
Forum Reset -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 09:47:03 (EST)
___VP -:- Re:
Forum Reset -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 12:50:38 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re:
Forum Reset -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 16:24:23 (EST)
___VP -:- M
is a pumpkin -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 17:30:11 (EST)
___Anon -:- Re:
Forum Reset -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 20:41:15 (EST)
StephenB -:- Chat
Room Proposal -:- Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 20:41:03 (EST)
___VP -:- Re:
Chat Room Proposal -:- Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 22:01:22 (EST)
___StephenB -:- Chat
Room: InstructionsProposal -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 00:00:37 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re:
Chat Room: InstructionsProposal -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 22:24:45
(EST)
___Joy -:- Re:
Chat Room: InstructionsProposal -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 22:24:55
(EST)
___Joy -:- Re:
Chat Room: InstructionsProposal -:- Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 22:26:06
(EST)
Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 07:28:15 (EST)
Poster: Seymour
Email: [email protected]
To: Everyone
Subject: Where are we now?
Message:
Greetings All. For the first time in a few weeks I have
an hour to spare and think about such things as….. What is true? Although it is
tempting to believe in things that, if true, would make life better - reduce
pain, give joy, strength, wisdom and whatever else we might desire. Lots of
children believed in Father Christmas until they gradually became aware of the
truth - but the presents, hopefully, were still there which took the sting out
of it and we realised that they were coming, not from some mystical entity, but
from our parents, carers or friends who we could thank, knowing that they cared
enough about us to take the time and money to but a gift. My point is, that
although as premies we may have enjoyed some things about being a premie -
perhaps the association with like minded people who saw the shallowness,
suffering, confusion and selfishness in the world and wanted to change it and
themselves, perhaps the need to be doing something rather than just thinking and
knowledge was a tool to raise consciousness, perhaps the social life ( I
certainly enjoyed at least some of the festivals and satsang nights. ) Whatever
we got out of being a premie that is real is still there to be enjoyed and even
more now that we do not have to subscribe to any beliefs that are unreasonable
such as the ‘evil’ mind, lila, grace,satchitanand…… or try and perform actions
that will deserve the blessings of the Lord God. For many years I closed myself
to many sources of inspiration because I reasoned that if the author or artist
who had created the book, painting, film etc. was not person whose life style
was as I thought it should be i.e. a meditating, theistic, sober, clean living
sort - preferably a premie but I never excluded potential premies or those of
other similar religious persuasions. It has taken many years since becoming
disillusioned with knowledge but I am now enjoying the appreciation of a wide
variety of sources of inspiration. The recognition of another’s innermost
thought or their lucid observations on the human condition, the excitement and
joy that comes from a great work of art, the gradual understanding that comes
through the study of philosophy and science and the ‘buzz’ at those unexpected
moments when the ‘penny drops’ and you grasp some aspect of life and our
relationship with one another that you had never quite understood before… these
are just some of the experiences that have replaced the ‘high’ that came when a
particularly good speaker gave satsang or the music/vibes were such that they
re-inforced some previously conditioned ideas that were mostly based on wishful
thinking, hopes and superstition rather that anything real. There may be no
Wizard of Oz at the end of the humanist yellow brick road but at least it is
solid and wherever it leads is a real place. I hope I never again waste my time
chasing rainbows - they are very attractive but have no substance. My hour is
up.. best wishes to all Seymour.
Back
To Index -:- Top of
Index
Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 11:53:21
(EST)
Poster: JW
Email: [email protected]
To:
Seymour
Subject: Re: Where are we now?
Message:
Greetings All. For the first time in a few
weeks I have an hour to spare and think about such things as….. What is true?
Although it is tempting to believe in things that, if true, would make life
better - reduce pain, give joy, strength, wisdom and whatever else we might
desire. Lots of children believed in Father Christmas until they gradually
became aware of the truth - but the presents, hopefully, were still there which
took the sting out of it and we realised that they were coming, not from some
mystical entity, but from our parents, carers or friends who we could thank,
knowing that they cared enough about us to take the time and money to but a
gift. My point is, that although as premies we may have enjoyed some things
about being a premie - perhaps the association with like minded people who saw
the shallowness, suffering, confusion and selfishness in the world and wanted to
change it and themselves, perhaps the need to be doing something rather than
just thinking and knowledge was a tool to raise consciousness, perhaps the
social life ( I certainly enjoyed at least some of the festivals and satsang
nights. ) Whatever we got out of being a premie that is real is still there to
be enjoyed and even more now that we do not have to subscribe to any beliefs
that are unreasonable such as the ‘evil’ mind, lila, grace,satchitanand…… or try
and perform actions that will deserve the blessings of the Lord God. For many
years I closed myself to many sources of inspiration because I reasoned that if
the author or artist who had created the book, painting, film etc. was not
person whose life style was as I thought it should be i.e. a meditating,
theistic, sober, clean living sort - preferably a premie but I never excluded
potential premies or those of other similar religious persuasions. It has taken
many years since becoming disillusioned with knowledge but I am now enjoying the
appreciation of a wide variety of sources of inspiration. The recognition of
another’s innermost thought or their lucid observations on the human condition,
the excitement and joy that comes from a great work of art, the gradual
understanding that comes through the study of philosophy and science and the
‘buzz’ at those unexpected moments when the ‘penny drops’ and you grasp some
aspect of life and our relationship with one another that you had never quite
understood before… these are just some of the experiences that have replaced the
‘high’ that came when a particularly good speaker gave satsang or the
music/vibes were such that they re-inforced some previously conditioned ideas
that were mostly based on wishful thinking, hopes and superstition rather that
anything real. There may be no Wizard of Oz at the end of the humanist yellow
brick road but at least it is solid and wherever it leads is a real place. I
hope I never again waste my time chasing rainbows - they are very attractive but
have no substance. My hour is up.. best wishes to all Seymour.
Thanks, Seymour. That was very insightful and eloquently expressed.
I would have to say I agree with you 100%. I agree that after being so
disillusioned by something that was supposed to be ultimate, it does take time
to be open to to anything else on a deep level. It's an effort you have to make,
but it is worth it. And if I take what I learned (good and bad) from my time as
a premie, I find I can see those inspirations with a kind of maturity that I
didn't have before.
Back
To Index -:- Top of
Index
Date: Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 05:51:14
(EST)
Poster: seymour
Email: [email protected]
To: JW
Subject: Re: Where are we now?
Message:
Hi JW, thanks for reading my rambles. Although I
sometimes feel that some of the time being a premie was wasted I agree that we
probably learnt a few things - not least from each other - and have come out of
it older and wiser. Maybe we have just gone through another stage of 'growing
up'and now realise, among other things, that we have to make our own efforts to
flourish rather than surrender the reigns to some so-called 'expert'. Of course
we all need help from time to time and there is always someone out there who is
a bit wiser and, in the same way that business companies use contract workers,we
should always be willing to humbly ask for assistance when we cannot solve a
problem. The foolish thing would be to give control to that 'contractor' and
allow him/her to give you orders. We must be in charge of what happens and
remember that our 'Guru' is only there because we 'hired' him to help and if it
looks like the expert is not so 'expert' after all or the time comes that we do
not need his help there should be no worry or guilt about letting him go. This
is less an 'ego' thing than a 'taking responsibility for your own life' sort of
thing.
Back
To Index -:- Top of
Index
Date: Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 07:56:53
(EST)
Poster: sorry mom,
Email: **
To: seymour
Subject: but I'm god (Re: Where are we now?)
Message:
Good to have you back. I saw a vidoe of maharaji at the
oct event in the austrailian site. The topic was devotion and again he dismissed
families and relationships with other humans and said the only real thing was
devotion to the master. Without quoteing him exactly I can confirm that he
without a doubt does not believe in any god besides the one who gives you the
knowledge and he said the aspirants that were feeling devotion to him were
already there and getting the techniques now was just a 'formality'. Clearly he
was fully returned to the old devotional days and he is whatever lord there is.
The songs they sang to him were with the old lyrics and even though the recent
tapes change the lyrics, at the private events they uncork the old 'you are the
lord lyrics. He isn't pitching a meditation I guess, he is pitching a meditation
to validate his lordship. The only goal is to recognise that he is lord. He even
mentioned someone telling thier mom to go away. And that that is but natural
because all relationships have problems and the only thing that is real is the
knowledge and the relationship with the master.
Back
To Index -:- Top of
Index
Date: Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 09:25:08
(EST)
Poster: seymour
Email:
To: sorry mom,
Subject: Re: but I'm god (Re: Where are we now?)
Message:
Sometimes I forget how creepy it all is.. Putting your
practice of knowledge before your family, friends etc. Saying that there is
nothing greater than 'Guru' because he leads you to God is so dangerous. No one
should try to influence us so much - even if they think it is for the best.
Surely premies must be the aware that there are lots of good people in the world
with greater wisdom, strength, kindness and understanding of our position in the
Universe than themselves - or is it still being said that the 'answer' is known
by G.M. and that's that. i.e. everything else is a waste of time?.
Back
To Index -:- Top of
Index
Date: Mon, Feb 9, 1998 at 12:02:01
(EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: seymour
Subject: Re: but I'm god (Re: Where are we now?)
Message:
From what I have seen recently, premies do indeed think
that there is nothing greater than M. If they see or hear or read something
really inspirational, it's interpreted as coming from M and not the actual
source, after all the person saying this is only channeling M somehow. Or, at
least, it's M's grace that they read or saw it. If you have a dysfunctional
relationship with your lover, so what? All that matters is Maharaji anyway. On
and on. I for one am glad M and his followers are trying to lead this double
blind thing of hiding lyrics, etc., basically hiding the Hindi guru worship
thing. That hypocrisy is not so hard to see through, and it's what got me
disgusted with the whole thing and that's the best thing they ever gave me!
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 04:02:00
(EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: [email protected]
To:
Everyone
Subject: The Heart
Message:
THE HEART (This is
a talk given by Anthony in a discussion of Islam using Arabi as an example of
the mysticism to be found in Islam) What is the heart? It is not the organ of
flesh situated on the left side of the chest. There is a connection between the
two; the mode is unknowable. It has to do with subtle physiology, and spoken of
from contemplative experience it expresses itself in symbolic language. These
experiences are real but not in the sense that physical phenomena is real. The
subtle physiology is also called "Mystic physiology" and operates through a
subtle body as distinguished from the physical organs or body organs. The heart
is one of its centers. He speaks of the Hydrus reaction. Its supreme vision is
the Forms of God. This because the "Gnostic" heart is the "Eye". The organ by
which God knows himself reveals himself to himself all of the Forms of his
Epiphany. That is not as he inwardly knows himself for in its Quest of the
Divine Essence even the highest science can go no farther. This is the Divine
Breath which gave rise to the cloud. It is also true to say that the gnostic as
the perfect man is the seat of the Goda, Divine Consciousness. Arabi says the
power of the heart is a secret force or energy which perceives Divine Reality by
a pure hierophant knowledge without mixture of any kind because the heart
contains even the Divine Compassion. In its unveiled state the heart of the
Gnostic is like a mirror in which the microcosmic forms of the Divine Being is
reflected. The power of the heart is designated by the term "Himmah" and as I
understand it is a vital spiritual force that manifests or creates the Divine
substances which mirrors itself in the heart; this Divine substance being the
cloud or primordial image from the Divine Breath of God. The heart produces true
knowledge, comprehends intuition, everything esoteric. The book "The Magus of
Strovolos" is available from Book Search by Susan. Call 1-937-8904169 if
interested.
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 13:24:28
(EST)
Poster: Joy
Email: [email protected]
To:
Mili
Subject: Re: The Heart
Message:
That was quite
lovely, Mili. Thank you for posting it. But, why do premies assume they have a
corner on experiencing "heart"? And that ex-premies do not experience an opening
and flowering of their hearts? It just doesn't take the same form as it did when
we had devotion for Maharaji, but (and I'm speaking for myself here, mainly) we
experience heart just as much as anyone else. I, for instance, have absolutely
magical experiences with certain music, with books and stories, with poetry,
films, friends, lovers etc. Maharaji has people deluded into thinking he has the
corner on the experience of "heart", and everything else is "mind" or "the
world". But my experience has been that there are many gateways into that
experience of heart and magic. This cult and all others claim exclusive rights
to this experience, which is what makes them cults.
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Date: Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 04:49:38
(EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: [email protected]
To:
Joy
Subject: Re: The Heart
Message:
That was
quite lovely, Mili. Thank you for posting it. But, why do premies assume they
have a corner on experiencing 'heart'? And that ex-premies do not experience an
opening and flowering of their hearts? It just doesn't take the same form as it
did when we had devotion for Maharaji, but (and I'm speaking for myself here,
mainly) we experience heart just as much as anyone else. I, for instance, have
absolutely magical experiences with certain music, with books and stories, with
poetry, films, friends, lovers etc. Maharaji has people deluded into thinking he
has the corner on the experience of 'heart', and everything else is 'mind' or
'the world'. But my experience has been that there are many gateways into that
experience of heart and magic. This cult and all others claim exclusive rights
to this experience, which is what makes them cults. Q: Maharaji, Is
this Knowledge just available from you? A: I don't say take this Knowledge from
me. Take this Knowledge from anywhere you can get it. But if you can't get
outside, if anybody can't give it to you, then come to me. My point is just
this: take this Knowledge. That's all. If anybody else can give it to you, go
there and take this Knowledge. But if they can't give you this Knowledge, come
to me and I will give you this Knowledge. I have this Knowledge. - September
1971, Toronto
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Date: Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 05:58:54
(EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: The Heart
Message:
Q: Maharaji, Is this
Knowledge just available from you? A: I don't say take this Knowledge from me.
Take this Knowledge from anywhere you can get it. But if you can't get outside,
if anybody can't give it to you, then come to me. My point is just this: take
this Knowledge. That's all. If anybody else can give it to you, go there and
take this Knowledge. But if they can't give you this Knowledge, come to me and I
will give you this Knowledge. I have this Knowledge. - September 1971, Toronto
I was initially impressed when Maharaji said this but it turned out not to
be quite that simple. Every good salesman will say that sort of thing
regardless of the true value of their wares, just to get you to buy their
product. ie: "the adverts speak very highly of the product" so it must be worth
having. What is missing from Maharaji's statement are the later costs. The small
print. The vows of secrecy, the promise to return to see Maharaji, the need to
watch videos, get involved in his work. That for many was the slippery slope.
Others, like your good-self, by your own admission did not 'surrender the reins
of your life' to Maharaji so totally and thus have no regrets. You did not get
burned in the process so you still trust Maharaji and see everything through
rosey 'Maharaji-colored-glasses' in my opinion. I agree with Joy that you can
experience the heart (by which I mean: Emotions of love for life and the
Creator) without Maharaji.
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Date: Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 06:09:52
(EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: The Heart
Message:
Q: Maharaji, Is this
Knowledge just available from you? A: I don't say take this Knowledge from me.
Take this Knowledge from anywhere you can get it. But if you can't get outside,
if anybody can't give it to you, then come to me. My point is just this: take
this Knowledge. That's all. If anybody else can give it to you, go there and
take this Knowledge. But if they can't give you this Knowledge, come to me and I
will give you this Knowledge. I have this Knowledge. - September 1971,
Toronto The Scene: London in the fifties On arriving in London, where Skoda
cars have never yet been seen or sold, a Russian salesman sets up the first
Skoda Sales shop and gives a radio interview to promote the now infamous
car. Q: Maharajski, Is this Car just available from you? A: I don't say buy this
Car from me. Buy this Car from anywhere you can get it. But if you can't get
outside, if anybody can't give it to you, then come to me. My point is just
this: buy this Car. That's all. If anybody else can give it to you, go there and
buy this Car. But if they can't give you this Car, come to me and I will give
you this Car. I have this Car.
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Date: Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 08:39:29
(EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: [email protected]
To:
Anon
Subject: Re: The Heart
Message:
Q:
Maharaji, Is this Knowledge just available from you? A: I don't say take this
Knowledge from me. Take this Knowledge from anywhere you can get it. But if you
can't get outside, if anybody can't give it to you, then come to me. My point is
just this: take this Knowledge. That's all. If anybody else can give it to you,
go there and take this Knowledge. But if they can't give you this Knowledge,
come to me and I will give you this Knowledge. I have this Knowledge. -
September 1971, Toronto I was initially impressed when Maharaji said this
but it turned out not to be quite that simple. Every good salesman will
say that sort of thing regardless of the true value of their wares, just to get
you to buy their product. ie: 'the adverts speak very highly of the product' so
it must be worth having. What is missing from Maharaji's statement are the later
costs. The small print. The vows of secrecy, the promise to return to see
Maharaji, the need to watch videos, get involved in his work. That for many was
the slippery slope. Others, like your good-self, by your own admission did not
'surrender the reins of your life' to Maharaji so totally and thus have no
regrets. You did not get burned in the process so you still trust Maharaji and
see everything through rosey 'Maharaji-colored-glasses' in my opinion. I agree
with Joy that you can experience the heart (by which I mean: Emotions of love
for life and the Creator) without Maharaji. It's funny - I was the
one who put this non-Maharaji quote (the first one in the thread), and now I get
accused of promoting exclusive Maharaji stuff. But, OK, I think I got Joy's
drift. The thing is, my motivation in posting that was not to advocate Maharaji.
(Hard to believe?) I was just expressing my experiences with the Knowledge - it
does take you deep within the Heart. That's just been my experience, and I don't
even want to generalize and say it'll work for everyone. Once I asked (the now
infamous) Jagdeo when he was in Zagreb having Knowledge sessions: Mahatma Ji,
what is 'good'? His answer, surprisingly, was not 'Maharaji is good and his
Knowledge is good. Everything else is bad.' He said, 'That's a very good
question. Whatever inspires you to meditate is good.' Not at all sectarian,
don't you think?
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 03:26:51
(EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: [email protected]
To:
Everyone
Subject: Social Harmony?
Message:
Sure, we all
want to love our neighbors and have our neighbors loving us, to live peacefully
in harmony with nature, to have a fulfilling family life. The reality is
different and almost makes those ideals seem like wishful thinking. People are
selfish, money is God, self-gain and short-term interest is dominant. Could it
be that the priesthood of a particular religion is advocating 'their' moral
authority in order to sustain itself as monopolistic dispensers of social
cohesion? Quite a plausible interpretation. Dawkins makes a formidable case for
selfishness as a biological necessity. Children love their parents for selfish
reasons, husbands and wives are together for the selfish reason of procreating
their own genes, and its a constant ego/power struggle. Our nature is
biological, and when you put too many individuals of a species in too small a
living area, inter-species aggression increases. Zoo keepers know this, and they
make sure that the cages are not made too small otherwise the animals destroy
each other. And look at us - a planetful of naked apes devouring natural
resources at an exponential rate and preying on each other in the process.
Different ethnic groups intolerant of each other, nuclear weapons stcokpiled and
far from being defused, and the ever present social class struggle of the rich
trying to get richer at the poor ones expense controlling this unjust social
pecking order by a well paid military and police force, until a revolution or
coup breaks out and the poor ones plunder the rich ones in an attempt to get
rich themselves. It's far from an ideal world, it has been that way for a long
time, but due to the exponential increase of individuals, its becoming more
intense every day. I was watching another documentary some time ago, about
Charlemagne in medieval Europe. He was the first great Roman Catholic emperor,
had all the blessings of a feeble Pope, and was responsible for vanquishing the
Celts and spreading the Catholic religion by sword in Western Europe. The Celts
and German tribes worshipped Yggdrasil, the World Tree. I don't say that their
religion was superior to the Catholic one. Worshipping a tree might seem strange
at first, but when you think about it its not that odd at all. Maybe less so
than worshipping a God who made a blood sacrifice of his only Son in order to
atone everybody's sin - a guilt feeling that you are supposed to feel for no
reason other than that you were born through an act of sexual copulation of your
parents that you actually had nothing to do with. So, when you try to honestly
examine your own motives and the motives of these social 'do-gooders' you have
to reach a sincere level of being suspended judgement. So many of our attitudes
and motives that we call our own have in fact been implanted in us by our social
background and education. Maybe its only when you start thinking a little
'different', such as when coming in contact with the beliefs and traditions of
another culture, that your own 'programming' becomes more apparent. The world is
becoming smaller and smaller every day, though, and no amount of wishful
thinking is going to change that fact. We need to become more tolerant of other
cultures, religions, ways of thinking and just other people's ideas. However,
the sheer number of individuals, and new mouths to feed, increasing every day,
makes me skeptical of any natural social harmony in the future. We are at each
other's throats, and will be so more in the future, lets face it. If anyone
comes and tries to 'reprogram' me in the interest of a higher ideal, or the
supposed benefit of society, I will know that he is a fake and is imposing
himself on me just for furthering his/her own self-interest. Let them try and
'deprogram' my baseball bat first, then.
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 09:46:46
(EST)
Poster: For
Email: bb
To: Mili
Subject: Milificent (Re: Social Harmony?)
Message:
Interesting post Mili. As most of your posts are. Except
when we are doing battle over maharaji, those can sometimes have little content.
When I got to the bottom of your post, I thought I wish you would write a
version two for the ending. When the christians talk to me they say what yousaid
about blood sacrifice. but in reading the 4 so-called gospels, he seems to be
saying over and over that he is going to be living out all the jewish prophecies
and that includes being killed. And that he has power over death and that will
be shown. As well as power over the dna world and it's rules about healing
blindness and the healing other things and breaking the rules. He said the only
commandment was the one about love. You are more that equipped for that. You
know the word he was talking about. All you and I need now is to recognise our
lucky situation. I know you mentioned the view that 'god reveals himself to
himself' but that doesn't seem to be the way it works here. We are definately
independent and we can't seem to get out of our lucky arrangement. Which is,
that we are part of something which actually cares and can and does help us and
we can have a feeling of love and a true relationship with the honest- to-god
real existing god friend. And you and I can walk through our day and feel our
life and learn to live with peace in our heart and ask god for the love to give
out and to give us the strength and help to live a full human life. Sure there
are lots of bad things and lots of bad lives that have gotten lived and it's a
world of obstacles. But the message of yeshua/jesus is a strong confirmation of
the reality of a god that cares and is real. Faith I have had. Faith YOU have
had. The reason I have been so freaked out for months is that I had my faith
destroyed and I had to come around to seeing that yes, ok, faith is the way to
live, but faith in what? eastern types want me to think that I am god. Great,
thanks for nothing. The people who live like that sound like the dalia lama, who
said to 7 buddist nuns that are coming to my town soon. He said 'contemplate on
the emptyness'. Because god does not give athiests what we can get by having
faith. You might be in an environment where you are the smartest guy. I don't
doubt that, I bet that is true. But look at the simple folk who believe in god,
they are flawed, and subject to error certainly, but the ones with the most
faith are the ones with the most fulfilled lives I bet. Maharaji is not equipped
to have faith in. If you are a person of faith he is not for you. Maybe there is
some type of person that just likes the relationship he offers, but even then it
is unfair of him to play gods role. I remember saying a few times that maharaji
came the only way I would accept him, as god, because I was already into god and
I wasn't interested in a teacher or whatever, but maharaji boldly claimed to be
god and so I was taken. To look above a misunderstanding or a trap does not mean
to see how rotten life is, but to find out that it's like coming out from under
a rock into the kingdom of a good god and I have the word courtesy of a very
flawed source. The preacher at the local church says that the holy spirit is the
breath. I heard him say that myself. And he said that at the main service event.
So, we have that, good for us if we find it helps us. But it in itself is by no
means sufficient. I read the quote myself about this next point and I had it
wrong all these years. Here it is. WITH FAITH, what I have done all men can do.
Faith in whom? Not in my own godhead. Not in the next guy. You know Mili, with
your knowledge and education you probably would find the 160 pages of the four
gospels to be quite an interesting story. I think we were done a disservice by
all the people around us who spoonfed quotes from that book to us when we were
young and had us swallow all the dogma and rituals that are not part of that 160
pages. Just Mark, Luke, Matt, and John. Quite a story! Expecially knowing your
breath already. Best of luck!
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 09:59:16
(EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Social Harmony?
Message:
Hi, Mili I don't
really see that anyone here is trying to deprogram you or any other premies.
Most of the people on here have looked at things in a very different light from
the rest of society. They have abandoned their societal programming in favor of
a new idea and found it to be false for them. I don't want to reprogram anyone
but I do know that I personally would like to see the truth about EV and DLM
exposed and share that with others who are questioning EV. (I know that there
are lots of premies who are not questioning and that is up to them). I know that
what you and I perceive to be the truth is vastly different and we can agree to
disagree on that topic. If I am wrong and you or any premie can produce hard
evidence, I am open to listening to it. One day this week a premie posted that
there was evidence to support that M was the living lord. Several of us were
eager to hear what he had to say, but he never offered us an answer about any
evidence. I don't have any respect for that type of discussion. The problem that
I see with your posting above is that I really do not see M or EV taking
pro-active steps to remedy the social ills of the world. For instance, what is M
doing to keep people from cutting down the rain forest? Is he engaged in talks
with other leaders to disarm nuclear weapons? I remember that in the 70's there
was talk about DLM opening up all of these hospitals around the world and
providing free care for the needy. Did this ever happen and if so is it in place
today? Please update me with any pro-active programs that EV is funding along
these lines if I am incorrect. You are right-people are at each other's throats
but what does M do to aleviate this? Is he suggesting that peace and harmony
among our species could be accomplished by disemination of "K" to everyone? It
is a wonderful idea but my question to you is that if this is the answer, why
not shout it from the rooftops like DLM did in the 70's? If a buisness or cause
isn't in the phone book and on TV in this society it will miss those who it
wants to reach. One last point, I don't want to start a pissing contest, but
from the posts I have read the premies are much less tolerant of the people on
this site than the ex's are of the premies. I think they have made it perfectly
clear that they have a bone to pick with M, not with you. When they make fun of
being "blissed out" or "brainwahed" they are probably speaking from their own
experiences which are valid. Have a great day! In peace, VP
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 10:19:40
(EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: [email protected]
To:
bb
Subject: Re: Milificent (Re: Social Harmony?)
Message:
Well, Bill, It's nice to know that we can share some
positive thoughts even though we disagree about the role of Maharaji in our
lives. I am not out to change your mind. But I enjoy these (reasonably) positive
exchanges. Live and let live is where its at. Maybe someday, I'll come to an end
of my rope with Maharaji, and then I'll look back and say, 'Bill Burke wasn't
such a bad guy, after all.' But, right now, if you try to turn me around by
insulting what I (still) hold precious, then it doesn't rub off well on me. You
know, I am not the kind of person who wants to conquer the world, or make
everyone think the same way I do or hold the same opinions that I have. Is this
planet teeming with technology wielding apes worth it? But I can relate to
sentiments such as 'discover the treasure in your Heart'. There is a depth
there, there is something worth knowing and discovering there and it makes all
the other possesions you can desire and objectives you can make for yourself
seem pale in comparison. And when I am feeling that, it even makes this foul ol'
world seem better. I don't think its an Indian or Western thing at all. It has
more to do with the simple, unadulterated joy of just being alive. I think even
flowers, fish and elephants feel it, too. Dolphins most definitely do. I don't
think you have to go to any particular church or temple to feel that. 'I declare
I will establish peace in this world. But what can I do if people do not come
to me with love in their hearts, and a keen wish to know peace and truth?' I
wonder why you guys never give the complete quote.
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 10:57:19
(EST)
Poster: St.
Email: bb
To: Mili
Subject: Milificent (Re: Social Harmony?)
Message:
The
line, 'is this planet teeming with technology wielding apes worth it?' Was real
funny to me. The only treasure I find in my heart is the presence of the spirit
or breath. I have my body and I have my spirit. Prem Rawat has his body and has
his breath but he has nothing to do with the lord that he doesn't even believe
in. Many people choose to say there is no god. What can anyone do about that? A
child of god is what we are. We are free to think otherwise. There is no
shortage of people saying wonderful sounding things but thier intent is to
involve us in a lot more than is required for the simple life of faith in god
and it's benefits. Maharaji seems harmless enough to those that dabble on the
edges of his words. I know the quote about peace on earth. Very well. It was a
cornerstone of my faith. I guess we can ignore the track record of all the real
devotees that came and his family and we were all driven out of the kingdom of
heaven. I DID continually make excuses on why it was not manifesting and made
excuses on why he did the things he did. I am finally at the wrecked end of all
my faith. I have new fresh faith in the reality and I am flourishing in many
ways. Finally my heart is free.
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 12:29:39
(EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Social Harmony?
Message:
Sure,
we all want to love our neighbors and have our neighbors loving us, to live
peacefully in harmony with nature, to have a fulfilling family life. The reality
is different and almost makes those ideals seem like wishful thinking. People
are selfish, money is God, self-gain and short-term interest is dominant. Could
it be that the priesthood of a particular religion is advocating 'their' moral
authority in order to sustain itself as monopolistic dispensers of social
cohesion? Quite a plausible interpretation. Dawkins makes a formidable case for
selfishness as a biological necessity. Children love their parents for selfish
reasons, husbands and wives are together for the selfish reason of procreating
their own genes, and its a constant ego/power struggle. Our nature is
biological, and when you put too many individuals of a species in too small a
living area, inter-species aggression increases. Zoo keepers know this, and they
make sure that the cages are not made too small otherwise the animals destroy
each other. And look at us - a planetful of naked apes devouring natural
resources at an exponential rate and preying on each other in the process.
Different ethnic groups intolerant of each other, nuclear weapons stcokpiled and
far from being defused, and the ever present social class struggle of the rich
trying to get richer at the poor ones expense controlling this unjust social
pecking order by a well paid military and police force, until a revolution or
coup breaks out and the poor ones plunder the rich ones in an attempt to get
rich themselves. It's far from an ideal world, it has been that way for a long
time, but due to the exponential increase of individuals, its becoming more
intense every day. I was watching another documentary some time ago, about
Charlemagne in medieval Europe. He was the first great Roman Catholic emperor,
had all the blessings of a feeble Pope, and was responsible for vanquishing the
Celts and spreading the Catholic religion by sword in Western Europe. The Celts
and German tribes worshipped Yggdrasil, the World Tree. I don't say that their
religion was superior to the Catholic one. Worshipping a tree might seem strange
at first, but when you think about it its not that odd at all. Maybe less so
than worshipping a God who made a blood sacrifice of his only Son in order to
atone everybody's sin - a guilt feeling that you are supposed to feel for no
reason other than that you were born through an act of sexual copulation of your
parents that you actually had nothing to do with. So, when you try to honestly
examine your own motives and the motives of these social 'do-gooders' you have
to reach a sincere level of being suspended judgement. So many of our attitudes
and motives that we call our own have in fact been implanted in us by our social
background and education. Maybe its only when you start thinking a little
'different', such as when coming in contact with the beliefs and traditions of
another culture, that your own 'programming' becomes more apparent. The world is
becoming smaller and smaller every day, though, and no amount of wishful
thinking is going to change that fact. We need to become more tolerant of other
cultures, religions, ways of thinking and just other people's ideas. However,
the sheer number of individuals, and new mouths to feed, increasing every day,
makes me skeptical of any natural social harmony in the future. We are at each
other's throats, and will be so more in the future, lets face it. If anyone
comes and tries to 'reprogram' me in the interest of a higher ideal, or the
supposed benefit of society, I will know that he is a fake and is imposing
himself on me just for furthering his/her own self-interest. Let them try and
'deprogram' my baseball bat first, then. Nice discourse, Mili. But I
don't share your pessimism. I know you live in a part of the world where
homicidal hatred, based on the most illogical, historical prejudices, has
recently manifested itself in the worst way. Because of that, I can understand
your defensiveness and negative view of human beings. But I guess I have more
faith in people. I know it's a challenge, but humans are capable of doing
wonderful things. Last night I was watching the opening ceremonies of the Winter
Olympics from Japan. There was a delegation of athletes from Bosnia, marching
under their new flag, just instituted a few days ago, and I think the flag was
being carried by one of their athletes who had been shot twice during the war.
But he was there, and so were the other athletes, and so was the flag. I found
it inspiring how people can carry on, believing and supporting a
multi-religious, diverse society, where people can really live together in peace
and respect. I guess this makes me a secular humanist, and, since I think we are
coming to the conclusion that is we are going to survive as a species, we need
to get beyond our differences, and instead celebrate them, I don't think Dawkins
would disagree.
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Date: Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 05:14:32
(EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: [email protected]
To:
JW
Subject: Re: Social Harmony?
Message:
Sure, we all want to love our
neighbors and have our neighbors loving us, to live peacefully in harmony with
nature, to have a fulfilling family life. The reality is different and almost
makes those ideals seem like wishful thinking. People are selfish, money is God,
self-gain and short-term interest is dominant. Could it be that the priesthood
of a particular religion is advocating 'their' moral authority in order to
sustain itself as monopolistic dispensers of social cohesion? Quite a plausible
interpretation. Dawkins makes a formidable case for selfishness as a biological
necessity. Children love their parents for selfish reasons, husbands and wives
are together for the selfish reason of procreating their own genes, and its a
constant ego/power struggle. Our nature is biological, and when you put too many
individuals of a species in too small a living area, inter-species aggression
increases. Zoo keepers know this, and they make sure that the cages are not made
too small otherwise the animals destroy each other. And look at us - a planetful
of naked apes devouring natural resources at an exponential rate and preying on
each other in the process. Different ethnic groups intolerant of each other,
nuclear weapons stcokpiled and far from being defused, and the ever present
social class struggle of the rich trying to get richer at the poor ones expense
controlling this unjust social pecking order by a well paid military and police
force, until a revolution or coup breaks out and the poor ones plunder the rich
ones in an attempt to get rich themselves. It's far from an ideal world, it has
been that way for a long time, but due to the exponential increase of
individuals, its becoming more intense every day. I was watching another
documentary some time ago, about Charlemagne in medieval Europe. He was the
first great Roman Catholic emperor, had all the blessings of a feeble Pope, and
was responsible for vanquishing the Celts and spreading the Catholic religion by
sword in Western Europe. The Celts and German tribes worshipped Yggdrasil, the
World Tree. I don't say that their religion was superior to the Catholic one.
Worshipping a tree might seem strange at first, but when you think about it its
not that odd at all. Maybe less so than worshipping a God who made a blood
sacrifice of his only Son in order to atone everybody's sin - a guilt feeling
that you are supposed to feel for no reason other than that you were born
through an act of sexual copulation of your parents that you actually had
nothing to do with. So, when you try to honestly examine your own motives and
the motives of these social 'do-gooders' you have to reach a sincere level of
being suspended judgement. So many of our attitudes and motives that we call our
own have in fact been implanted in us by our social background and education.
Maybe its only when you start thinking a little 'different', such as when coming
in contact with the beliefs and traditions of another culture, that your own
'programming' becomes more apparent. The world is becoming smaller and smaller
every day, though, and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that
fact. We need to become more tolerant of other cultures, religions, ways of
thinking and just other people's ideas. However, the sheer number of
individuals, and new mouths to feed, increasing every day, makes me skeptical of
any natural social harmony in the future. We are at each other's throats, and
will be so more in the future, lets face it. If anyone comes and tries to
'reprogram' me in the interest of a higher ideal, or the supposed benefit of
society, I will know that he is a fake and is imposing himself on me just for
furthering his/her own self-interest. Let them try and 'deprogram' my baseball
bat first, then. Nice discourse, Mili. But I don't share your
pessimism. I know you live in a part of the world where homicidal hatred, based
on the most illogical, historical prejudices, has recently manifested itself in
the worst way. Because of that, I can understand your defensiveness and negative
view of human beings. But I guess I have more faith in people. I know it's a
challenge, but humans are capable of doing wonderful things. Last night I was
watching the opening ceremonies of the Winter Olympics from Japan. There was a
delegation of athletes from Bosnia, marching under their new flag, just
instituted a few days ago, and I think the flag was being carried by one of
their athletes who had been shot twice during the war. But he was there, and so
were the other athletes, and so was the flag. I found it inspiring how people
can carry on, believing and supporting a multi-religious, diverse society, where
people can really live together in peace and respect. I guess this makes me a
secular humanist, and, since I think we are coming to the conclusion that is we
are going to survive as a species, we need to get beyond our differences, and
instead celebrate them, I don't think Dawkins would disagree. Well,
the thing is, JW, there was a Winter Olympics held in Sarajevo, too, some time
ago. It didn't do anything to prevent the war from breaking out. Come on, you
can't tell me that you really buy this 'Reach out and touch somebody's hand'
tripe. THAT is really deluding yourself! It's just a show, man. Show business -
and somebody, Rupert Murdoch or Aaron Spelling, or Donald Trump is making big
moola out of it. Look, I've worked for UNICEF for five years. All they do is
produce declarations, papers, charters. It's all bullshit. And they put on this
show just so the fat salaries can keep on piling in Chemical Bank. Nobody really
wants to get their hands dirty. The funding is there just so the donors can have
a little leeway on their tax forms. Why do you think Sarajevo was being bombed
for five years and nobody lifted a finger to stop it? Because there was no oil
in Bosnia, that's why! No naphta, no superpower interest. Now, when the EU got
savvy that as a reaction, a fundamentalist Muslim country was forming in the
heart of Europe, that's when there was a response. Just last night I saw the
news - 15,000 scientists were invited to (yet another) UN conference on the
theme 'Save the Earth'. Only 3,000 confirmed their arrival. It's a nice little
plush weekend getaway. The other 12,000 responded that there's nothing that can
be done about it, and they are just not interested in talking about it anymore!
I am not a prophet of doom. I mean, we all have our individual doomsday
scheduled for us, sooner or later. Kick the bucket, and the Earth will go on,
with you or without you. The dinosaurs were wiped out pretty quick, yet life
went on. Maybe after us, insects will inherit the Earth. Or rats. Or bacteria.
Or maybe this naked ape infested phase will go on for the next few million
years. My point is just this - don't delude yourself in thinking there is an
ideal external situation that you can create for yourself on this planet. It
can't last for very long. Maybe that's too grim for you, but that is the
reality.
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Date: Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 06:55:08
(EST)
Poster: living
Email: bb
To: Mili
Subject: close up (Re: Social Harmony?)
Message:
Well,
it's tough to argue with that. But don't overlook the fact that some people in
your location love you very much and there are some kids that would love you
REALLY a lot. You have health, youth, time, smarts and you know what. All that
makes for a really good world made just for you. The rest of the world may burn
around you but you are very lucky and there is the perfect stage for your genius
mind to do something great. Just team up with god and see how happy you can make
the people around you. Well, thats what I've decided to do.
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Date: Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 08:55:04
(EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: negativity, again (Re: Social Harmony?)
Message:
Sure, we all want to love our neighbors and
have our neighbors loving us, to live peacefully in harmony with nature, to have
a fulfilling family life. The reality is different and almost makes those ideals
seem like wishful thinking. People are selfish, money is God, self-gain and
short-term interest is dominant. Could it be that the priesthood of a particular
religion is advocating 'their' moral authority in order to sustain itself as
monopolistic dispensers of social cohesion? Quite a plausible interpretation.
Dawkins makes a formidable case for selfishness as a biological necessity.
Children love their parents for selfish reasons, husbands and wives are together
for the selfish reason of procreating their own genes, and its a constant
ego/power struggle. Our nature is biological, and when you put too many
individuals of a species in too small a living area, inter-species aggression
increases. Zoo keepers know this, and they make sure that the cages are not made
too small otherwise the animals destroy each other. And look at us - a planetful
of naked apes devouring natural resources at an exponential rate and preying on
each other in the process. Different ethnic groups intolerant of each other,
nuclear weapons stcokpiled and far from being defused, and the ever present
social class struggle of the rich trying to get richer at the poor ones expense
controlling this unjust social pecking order by a well paid military and police
force, until a revolution or coup breaks out and the poor ones plunder the rich
ones in an attempt to get rich themselves. It's far from an ideal world, it has
been that way for a long time, but due to the exponential increase of
individuals, its becoming more intense every day. I was watching another
documentary some time ago, about Charlemagne in medieval Europe. He was the
first great Roman Catholic emperor, had all the blessings of a feeble Pope, and
was responsible for vanquishing the Celts and spreading the Catholic religion by
sword in Western Europe. The Celts and German tribes worshipped Yggdrasil, the
World Tree. I don't say that their religion was superior to the Catholic one.
Worshipping a tree might seem strange at first, but when you think about it its
not that odd at all. Maybe less so than worshipping a God who made a blood
sacrifice of his only Son in order to atone everybody's sin - a guilt feeling
that you are supposed to feel for no reason other than that you were born
through an act of sexual copulation of your parents that you actually had
nothing to do with. So, when you try to honestly examine your own motives and
the motives of these social 'do-gooders' you have to reach a sincere level of
being suspended judgement. So many of our attitudes and motives that we call our
own have in fact been implanted in us by our social background and education.
Maybe its only when you start thinking a little 'different', such as when coming
in contact with the beliefs and traditions of another culture, that your own
'programming' becomes more apparent. The world is becoming smaller and smaller
every day, though, and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that
fact. We need to become more tolerant of other cultures, religions, ways of
thinking and just other people's ideas. However, the sheer number of
individuals, and new mouths to feed, increasing every day, makes me skeptical of
any natural social harmony in the future. We are at each other's throats, and
will be so more in the future, lets face it. If anyone comes and tries to
'reprogram' me in the interest of a higher ideal, or the supposed benefit of
society, I will know that he is a fake and is imposing himself on me just for
furthering his/her own self-interest. Let them try and 'deprogram' my baseball
bat first, then. Nice discourse, Mili. But I don't share your pessimism. I know
you live in a part of the world where homicidal hatred, based on the most
illogical, historical prejudices, has recently manifested itself in the worst
way. Because of that, I can understand your defensiveness and negative view of
human beings. But I guess I have more faith in people. I know it's a challenge,
but humans are capable of doing wonderful things. Last night I was watching the
opening ceremonies of the Winter Olympics from Japan. There was a delegation of
athletes from Bosnia, marching under their new flag, just instituted a few days
ago, and I think the flag was being carried by one of their athletes who had
been shot twice during the war. But he was there, and so were the other
athletes, and so was the flag. I found it inspiring how people can carry on,
believing and supporting a multi-religious, diverse society, where people can
really live together in peace and respect. I guess this makes me a secular
humanist, and, since I think we are coming to the conclusion that is we are
going to survive as a species, we need to get beyond our differences, and
instead celebrate them, I don't think Dawkins would disagree. Well, the thing
is, JW, there was a Winter Olympics held in Sarajevo, too, some time ago. It
didn't do anything to prevent the war from breaking out. Come on, you can't tell
me that you really buy this 'Reach out and touch somebody's hand' tripe. THAT is
really deluding yourself! It's just a show, man. Show business - and somebody,
Rupert Murdoch or Aaron Spelling, or Donald Trump is making big moola out of it.
Look, I've worked for UNICEF for five years. All they do is produce
declarations, papers, charters. It's all bullshit. And they put on this show
just so the fat salaries can keep on piling in Chemical Bank. Nobody really
wants to get their hands dirty. The funding is there just so the donors can have
a little leeway on their tax forms. Why do you think Sarajevo was being bombed
for five years and nobody lifted a finger to stop it? Because there was no oil
in Bosnia, that's why! No naphta, no superpower interest. Now, when the EU got
savvy that as a reaction, a fundamentalist Muslim country was forming in the
heart of Europe, that's when there was a response. Just last night I saw the
news - 15,000 scientists were invited to (yet another) UN conference on the
theme 'Save the Earth'. Only 3,000 confirmed their arrival. It's a nice little
plush weekend getaway. The other 12,000 responded that there's nothing that can
be done about it, and they are just not interested in talking about it anymore!
I am not a prophet of doom. I mean, we all have our individual doomsday
scheduled for us, sooner or later. Kick the bucket, and the Earth will go on,
with you or without you. The dinosaurs were wiped out pretty quick, yet life
went on. Maybe after us, insects will inherit the Earth. Or rats. Or bacteria.
Or maybe this naked ape infested phase will go on for the next few million
years. My point is just this - don't delude yourself in thinking there is an
ideal external situation that you can create for yourself on this planet. It
can't last for very long. Maybe that's too grim for you, but that is the
reality. I guess Dawn was reading your postings and thinking you
were an ex!!
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To Index -:- Top of
Index
Date: Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 09:02:40
(EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: [email protected]
To:
VP
Subject: Re: negativity, again (Re: Social Harmony?)
Message:
Sure, we all want to love our
neighbors and have our neighbors loving us, to live peacefully in harmony with
nature, to have a fulfilling family life. The reality is different and almost
makes those ideals seem like wishful thinking. People are selfish, money is God,
self-gain and short-term interest is dominant. Could it be that the priesthood
of a particular religion is advocating 'their' moral authority in order to
sustain itself as monopolistic dispensers of social cohesion? Quite a plausible
interpretation. Dawkins makes a formidable case for selfishness as a biological
necessity. Children love their parents for selfish reasons, husbands and wives
are together for the selfish reason of procreating their own genes, and its a
constant ego/power struggle. Our nature is biological, and when you put too many
individuals of a species in too small a living area, inter-species aggression
increases. Zoo keepers know this, and they make sure that the cages are not made
too small otherwise the animals destroy each other. And look at us - a planetful
of naked apes devouring natural resources at an exponential rate and preying on
each other in the process. Different ethnic groups intolerant of each other,
nuclear weapons stcokpiled and far from being defused, and the ever present
social class struggle of the rich trying to get richer at the poor ones expense
controlling this unjust social pecking order by a well paid military and police
force, until a revolution or coup breaks out and the poor ones plunder the rich
ones in an attempt to get rich themselves. It's far from an ideal world, it has
been that way for a long time, but due to the exponential increase of
individuals, its becoming more intense every day. I was watching another
documentary some time ago, about Charlemagne in medieval Europe. He was the
first great Roman Catholic emperor, had all the blessings of a feeble Pope, and
was responsible for vanquishing the Celts and spreading the Catholic religion by
sword in Western Europe. The Celts and German tribes worshipped Yggdrasil, the
World Tree. I don't say that their religion was superior to the Catholic one.
Worshipping a tree might seem strange at first, but when you think about it its
not that odd at all. Maybe less so than worshipping a God who made a blood
sacrifice of his only Son in order to atone everybody's sin - a guilt feeling
that you are supposed to feel for no reason other than that you were born
through an act of sexual copulation of your parents that you actually had
nothing to do with. So, when you try to honestly examine your own motives and
the motives of these social 'do-gooders' you have to reach a sincere level of
being suspended judgement. So many of our attitudes and motives that we call our
own have in fact been implanted in us by our social background and education.
Maybe its only when you start thinking a little 'different', such as when coming
in contact with the beliefs and traditions of another culture, that your own
'programming' becomes more apparent. The world is becoming smaller and smaller
every day, though, and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that
fact. We need to become more tolerant of other cultures, religions, ways of
thinking and just other people's ideas. However, the sheer number of
individuals, and new mouths to feed, increasing every day, makes me skeptical of
any natural social harmony in the future. We are at each other's throats, and
will be so more in the future, lets face it. If anyone comes and tries to
'reprogram' me in the interest of a higher ideal, or the supposed benefit of
society, I will know that he is a fake and is imposing himself on me just for
furthering his/her own self-interest. Let them try and 'deprogram' my baseball
bat first, then. Nice discourse, Mili. But I don't share your pessimism. I know
you live in a part of the world where homicidal hatred, based on the most
illogical, historical prejudices, has recently manifested itself in the worst
way. Because of that, I can understand your defensiveness and negative view of
human beings. But I guess I have more faith in people. I know it's a challenge,
but humans are capable of doing wonderful things. Last night I was watching the
opening ceremonies of the Winter Olympics from Japan. There was a delegation of
athletes from Bosnia, marching under their new flag, just instituted a few days
ago, and I think the flag was being carried by one of their athletes who had
been shot twice during the war. But he was there, and so were the other
athletes, and so was the flag. I found it inspiring how people can carry on,
believing and supporting a multi-religious, diverse society, where people can
really live together in peace and respect. I guess this makes me a secular
humanist, and, since I think we are coming to the conclusion that is we are
going to survive as a species, we need to get beyond our differences, and
instead celebrate them, I don't think Dawkins would disagree. Well, the thing
is, JW, there was a Winter Olympics held in Sarajevo, too, some time ago. It
didn't do anything to prevent the war from breaking out. Come on, you can't tell
me that you really buy this 'Reach out and touch somebody's hand' tripe. THAT is
really deluding yourself! It's just a show, man. Show business - and somebody,
Rupert Murdoch or Aaron Spelling, or Donald Trump is making big moola out of it.
Look, I've worked for UNICEF for five years. All they do is produce
declarations, papers, charters. It's all bullshit. And they put on this show
just so the fat salaries can keep on piling in Chemical Bank. Nobody really
wants to get their hands dirty. The funding is there just so the donors can have
a little leeway on their tax forms. Why do you think Sarajevo was being bombed
for five years and nobody lifted a finger to stop it? Because there was no oil
in Bosnia, that's why! No naphta, no superpower interest. Now, when the EU got
savvy that as a reaction, a fundamentalist Muslim country was forming in the
heart of Europe, that's when there was a response. Just last night I saw the
news - 15,000 scientists were invited to (yet another) UN conference on the
theme 'Save the Earth'. Only 3,000 confirmed their arrival. It's a nice little
plush weekend getaway. The other 12,000 responded that there's nothing that can
be done about it, and they are just not interested in talking about it anymore!
I am not a prophet of doom. I mean, we all have our individual doomsday
scheduled for us, sooner or later. Kick the bucket, and the Earth will go on,
with you or without you. The dinosaurs were wiped out pretty quick, yet life
went on. Maybe after us, insects will inherit the Earth. Or rats. Or bacteria.
Or maybe this naked ape infested phase will go on for the next few million
years. My point is just this - don't delude yourself in thinking there is an
ideal external situation that you can create for yourself on this planet. It
can't last for very long. Maybe that's too grim for you, but that is the
reality. I guess Dawn was reading your postings and thinking you
were an ex!! Maybe this will surprise you, but I don't think there
is such a clear-cut divider between 'ex' and 'non-ex'. Those are just little
pigeon-holes that we make, but I think we all pass through various phases of the
spectrum at times.
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Date: Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 19:16:40
(EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Social Harmony?
Message:
Well, sorry you
feel that way. It must be tough to have so little hope for the future. If you
look at what I said, it was that out of the bombing of Sarajevo, people have
apparently come together, not out of hatred, but out of a desire to live in
peace. That's not some wishful thinking, it's actually happening. On the ground,
in reality. I agree that the EU really ran from it's responsiblity to do
something about the slaughter, and the U.S. did too. I'm not talking about
governments, or the U.N. or other groups, I'm just talking about people. That's
where it all happens in my opnion. Also, Mili, how come you're so negative?
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Date: Mon, Feb 9, 1998 at 23:05:57
(EST)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Milificent (Re: Social Harmony?)
Message:
'I declare I will establish peace in this world.
But what can I do if people do not come to me with love in their hearts, and
a keen wish to know peace and truth?' I wonder why you guys never give the
complete quote. It would have made the sentence it's being used in
completely unwieldy, if you're referring to the Home Page. But you do have a
point. Tell you what: put MJ's entire speech that we both chopped that
quote out of on www.premie.org and I'll link to it. But you have to give
Maharaji full credit for telling that whopper when you do. Those of us who did
come to him with love in our hearts and a keen wish to know peace and love ended
up financing his extravagant lifestyle, and would prefer a complete refund. Not
you, of course. You gave squat.
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Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 at 00:47:38
(EST)
Poster: op
Email:
To: St.
Subject: Re: Milificent (Re: Social Harmony?)
Message:
did you go to Montreal in September of 1995? Watch that
video if you think M's an atheist. You've got a few facts wrong.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 21:38:05
(EST)
Poster: Diver Dan
Email: [email protected]
To: Everyone
Subject: Ann Johnson aka Annabanna
Message:
I saw Ann"s name in someones posting. Does anyone Know
where she is or could be reached as well as Brian Mc'dermott, Chuck or Jim
Kaltwasser ? I suppose this will cause as much contreversey as my last request !
Thanks to those that helped it was greatley appreciated. as to bb well any crowd
seems to have one of you, and if it made you feel bigger then thats OK
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 23:22:04
(EST)
Poster: * adios
Email: BB
To: Diver Dan
Subject: amigo (Re: Ann Johnson aka Annabanna)
Message:
Hello and good luck Dan. Sure you can go get involved. We
have free will. I really don't want to watch you walk that way so I won't be
reading any more of your posts. It will just bother me. I will mark my posts
like this so you can avoid mine. here is the mark * example; *Hindu of the Year
goodbye devotee dan.
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 00:28:50
(EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Diver Dan
Subject: Re: Ann Johnson aka Annabanna
Message:
I saw Ann's name in someones posting. Does
anyone Know where she is or could be reached as well as Brian Mc'dermott, Chuck
or Jim Kaltwasser ? I suppose this will cause as much contreversey as my last
request ! Thanks to those that helped it was greatley appreciated. as to bb well
any crowd seems to have one of you, and if it made you feel bigger then thats OK
Ann Johnson. Oh yes. I really liked Ann, despite her intense
neurosis. She's that woman who, at the advice of mahatmas and national
coordinators, abandoned her husband an children to become an ashram premie and
then an initiator. She carried around a lot of guilt about that. I don't know
where she is, but I hope she stopped running away from her life and went back to
her family. I have heard that Brian McDermot is married and still involved to
some extent with premiedom. Don't know about those other people.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 20:27:04
(EST)
Poster: anon premie
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: brainwave analysisT
Message:
During trials of
new brainwave analysing software it was discovered that by practicing holy name
technique whilst transmitting brainwave data resulted in a dramatic alteration
in readout...altering the consciousness of subject into a total relaxed state.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 20:39:53
(EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: anon premie
Subject: Re: brainwave analysisT
Message:
During trials of new brainwave analysing
software it was discovered that by practicing holy name technique whilst
transmitting brainwave data resulted in a dramatic alteration in
readout...altering the consciousness of subject into a total relaxed state.
So what?
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 20:41:39
(EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: anon premie
Subject: Re: brainwave analysisT
Message:
I am a very
argumentative person, it's not that I am trying to find 'the negative' in
everything, having said that...dear premie anon: Okay, so your in a totally
relaxed state, I realize that following my breath relaxes me, makes me verrry
relaxed, but don't you ever want something more than simply to feel relaxed? I
do. I want more from life than simply to feel relaxed. It's a wonderful
technique for me; however, I think it works very differently on different
personality types. It works very well for me and the type of person I am, but I
am a very laid back person already, I don't really need a technique to relax. Is
there anything more that M teaches besides a technique to relax?
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 22:02:45
(EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: [email protected]
To: anon premie
Subject: Re: brainwave analysisT
Message:
This is actually nothing new. I mentioned this on the
forum a few weeks ago. I said that meditation on the breath changes brainwave
patterns. This is not surprising to anyone who meditates and is not exclusive to
Maharaji. In fact, the info I received was done on non premies who had never
even heard of Maharaji. I also said that practising the nectar technique
releases endorphines into the brain and body. All very well and good but are you
going to tell us that the endorphines are Maharaji's grace?
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 23:11:19
(EST)
Poster: me
Email:
To: Sir David
Subject: Re: brainwave analysisT
Message:
I think
endorphins are everyones grace.I dont think I could have accessed all these
techniques without M its like my music..the computer enables me to make music it
would take a long time to perfect on a traditional instrument so M enabled me to
get a grip my over emotional and out of control thoughts... well M and Josh my
instructor that is......... in three short weeks. I might have spent a whole
lifetime perfecting that without their fastrack system......and as I never have
a penny I dont think they did it to get hold of my dosh
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 23:33:09
(EST)
Poster: overendorphed premie
Email:
To:
Sir David
Subject: Re: brainwave analysisT
Message:
endorphins are everyones grace of course
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 09:21:33
(EST)
Poster: lg
Email:
To: anon premie
Subject: Re: brainwave analysisT
Message:
During trials of new brainwave analysing
software it was discovered that by practicing holy name technique whilst
transmitting brainwave data resulted in a dramatic alteration in
readout...altering the consciousness of subject into a total relaxed state.
This should be re-written: During trials... by practicing ANY
meditation technique... Sorry! Ignorance again.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 20:05:47
(EST)
Poster: StephenB
Email: [email protected]
To: Everyone
Subject: Proposal for Chat Room
Message:
I have not received any response to speak of for a chat
room. I do propose Mondays Nights at 5:00 EST (7:00 MST) Please let me know if
there is any interest so I don't end up one more place alone......:) For
instruction on getting there see post of a few days ago..or ask for more info
here. Stephen B
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 20:35:30
(EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: [email protected]
To: StephenB
Subject: Re: Proposal for Chat Room
Message:
I have not received any response to speak of
for a chat room. I do propose Mondays Nights at 5:00 EST (7:00 MST) Please let
me know if there is any interest so I don't end up one more place alone......:)
For instruction on getting there see post of a few days ago..or ask for more
info here. Stephen B I would prefer to use the forum rather than a
chat room, but other people may well be interested. (Just to let you know!)
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 20:45:30
(EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: StephenB
Subject: Re: Proposal for Chat Room
Message:
Yeah, I
feel like Katie does about it. Actually, I am deathly afraid of 'real time
chat'. I would feel so 'exposed', you know? No? What the hell is a chat room
anyway,that is different from this? Sorry, just my argumentative nature coming
through again. Aren't we always alone anyway no matter what we do?
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 22:29:00
(EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: [email protected]
To: John K.
Subject: Re: Proposal for Chat Room
Message:
No, we're never alone. God, the Power, whatever you call
it is always with us 110%. We're never alone - it just seems that way.
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 15:48:52
(EST)
Poster: StephenB
Email: [email protected]
To: Sir David
Subject: Re: Proposal for Chat Room
Message:
No, we're never alone. God, the Power, whatever
you call it is always with us 110%. We're never alone - it just seems that way.
Thanks for that perspective Sir David, you are right. We never have
to be alone again. Internally as well as in our communities. One of the things
that I hated about DLM was the constant devaluation of personal needs. If one
ever admitted emotional needs (companionship, sexuallity, playfullness, ect) the
sharks would gather: YOUR IN YOUR MIND..........GIVE IT UP.........MEDITATE TILL
IT GOES AWAY..... in spite of the claim to love and support we were emotioanlly
assaluted to be needless. I admit it now..I need friends. My happiness is
grounded in interdependancy with others, in my marriage, family, and community,
that interdenpendency and vulnerability is a higher value than independence and
self suficency. That is one of the real lessons I have taken away from my DLM
days. I cannot escape life focused on some narcisistic ideal of "realizing God".
The constant practice of internal meditaion can be the ultimate in narcisisim
(that is not to denigrate the good and positive effects of a balanced attitude
to meditation, which I do believe in) Happily, ultimatly, I am NOT alone.
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 15:52:46
(EST)
Poster: StephenB
Email: [email protected]
To: John K.
Subject: John-Why it's different (Re: Proposal
for Chat Room)
Message:
Acttually I think these kind of boards
suck. Real time chat is more like a conversation. It is not recorded for all to
see, is more private, and here there is a certain amount of calculation in the
replies, rather than gut reactions. I also am greatfule for the replies....I
won't waste my time.
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 15:54:01
(EST)
Poster: StephenB
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Thanks for the response (Re: Proposal for Chat Room)
Message:
Thanks for the info Katie...you have saved me some time.
Let me know if you folks ever change you mind.
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Date: Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 03:31:13
(EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: [email protected]
To: StephenB
Subject: Re: I hope you keep posting (Re:
Proposal for Chat Room)
Message:
Thanks for the info
Katie...you have saved me some time. Let me know if you folks ever change you
mind. Hi Stephen - I hope you keep posting anyway, even though the
forum might not be your first choice! I read what you wrote to John below, and
here's my opinion. It's actually a lot easier for me to communicate this way
(written), rather than in a chat room (which is also written, but more
spontaneously - like speaking). I don't particularly like to talk on the phone
either. If I can't see the person face to face, it's harder for me to
communicate. I tend to speak hesitantly, anyway. I like the time that the forum
gives me to express exactly what I want to say (and to be able to erase stuff
that I don't say correctly.) But I understand why you (and other people) would
prefer the chat room - I am sure it just depends on your communication style.
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Date: Sun, Feb 8, 1998 at 12:31:34
(EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: [email protected]
To: StephenB
Subject: Re: Proposal for Chat Room
Message:
Good to see that you're thinking for yourself again and
not swallowing the BS. See my post above about relationships.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 14:19:13
(EST)
Poster: Rick
Email: [email protected]
To: Everyone
Subject: Jagdeo
Message:
What's
the evidence on Jagdeo molesting children?
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 15:19:49
(EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: [email protected]
To: Rick
Subject: Re: Jagdeo
Message:
What's the evidence on Jagdeo molesting
children? I'm not sure what constitutes "evidence", but the reason I
believe it happened is this: Two women have come forward - one in the old forum
(Forum 1) and one by e-mail - and said they were molested by them as children. I
know one of the women was approximately 7 years old and up when this happened;
I'm not sure how old the other one was (pre-teenager?). I have communicated with
one woman directly by e-mail and she corroborates the other woman's story (plus
some other stuff). Also, I think there are other women around who could back up
their story, but I'm not sure exactly who and where they are.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 15:49:14
(EST)
Poster: Rick
Email: rtaraday@hotmail
To:
Katie
Subject: Re: Jagdeo
Message:
What's the evidence on Jagdeo
molesting children? I'm not sure what constitutes 'evidence', but
the reason I believe it happened is this: Two women have come forward - one in
the old forum (Forum 1) and one by e-mail - and said they were molested by them
as children. I know one of the women was approximately 7 years old and up when
this happened; I'm not sure how old the other one was (pre-teenager?). I have
communicated with one woman directly by e-mail and she corroborates the other
woman's story (plus some other stuff). Also, I think there are other women
around who could back up their story, but I'm not sure exactly who and where
they are. Thanks, Katie. It isn't hard to believe. I remember a
strange incident in a knowledge review, when a premie asked Jagdeo to clarify
the order in which to practice the meditation techniques. Jagdeo confused the
order we'd been taught for several years. When another premie pointed that out,
Jagdeo insisted he was correct. Other premies spoke up that the order was
incorrect, and at some point I could see Jagdeo realized he was wrong and that
he'd insisted so heavily that now he was in a bind. Instead of just copping to
being wrong, he declared that this was the new order to practice the techniques
and that we shouldn't question maharaji. It was so wierd and dishonest but to
question such a basic quality in Jagdeo, would have been to question maharaji
and ultimately ourselves. So all the premies, including myself, went along with
Jagdeo and starting meditating differently.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 17:05:23
(EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: [email protected]
To: The common people
Subject: Re: Jagdeo
Message:
Just in case anyone's interested, I'm all for attacking
someone who has molested children or been nasty to people. What I think we can't
do is attack people simply for following Maharaji. After all, we used to follow
him ourselves.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 17:13:58
(EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Rick
Subject: Re: Jagdeo
Message:
What's the
evidence on Jagdeo molesting children? The other amazing thing was
that at least one of these women reported to PAM that Jagdeo was molesting
little girlson a regular basis (mostly by getting little girls to go privately
into his room), and apparently little, if anything was done about it. Some of
these incidences occurred in Miami. I was community coordinator in Miami after
that and it was never mentioned to me by anyone that kids should be supervised
with Jagdeo or anything else. This, despite the fact that Jagdeo was in Miami
for much of that time, giving blissful satsang to the community and at big
festival programs. I just hope that I never inadvertently gave Jagdeo access to
his victims. Just like with the other mahatmas who misbehaved sexually or
criminally (Fakiranand, Parolkanand, Tejeswaranand) DLM and the big M never took
responsibility for what these people were doing, and this is especially
irresponsible because they were doing it to premies and their families who were
supposed to trust these people and look upon them as realized souls, when they
were sometimes just dirty old men.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 20:49:53
(EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: [email protected]
To: Sir David
Subject: Re: Jagdeo
Message:
Just in case anyone's interested, I'm all for
attacking someone who has molested children or been nasty to people. What I
think we can't do is attack people simply for following Maharaji. After all, we
used to follow him ourselves. Dear David - I agree with you that we
should not attack people simply for following Maharaji and for saying so. I
think it's OK to answer them by telling why we don't follow M. As for people
like Jagdeo - I'm not sure what to say. It scares me that he's apparently still
at large in the Far East. I believe that the man may be mentally ill, and
although he may be capable of functional behavior most of the time, he should be
supervised when around younger children or teenagers. The problems is usually
that people who molest other people have been molested themselves. Ultimately
everyone has to take responsibility for their own behavior (including going to
jail or being confined in some other way, if that's necessary), but behavior
such as child molestation, or nastiness doesn't necessarily mean the person is
evil to the core (I think you know this, too.) I just hope that JagDeo is in a
supervised position now, where he cannot hurt any more kids (in whatever
situation he finds himself in).
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 21:48:07
(EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: [email protected]
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Jagdeo
Message:
I
don't know the full background to Jagdao's history but if he lived in a
repressive enviroment where sexual relationships were considered to be a waste
of time, as in hard core Hinduism and being a celibate Mahatma following
Maharaji, then there's a good chance that his paedophelia resulted from this
repressive regime. In the Catholic church where priests are celibate, often the
result is that priests turn to paedophelia because they cannot turn off their
sexual desire and the natural familiarity of children makes it easy to get close
to them. Slightly off the topic, this could be one of the main causes of
paedophelia; an adult is unable to have a sexual relationship with another
adult, through religious or psychological reasons and because children are easy
to get on with. Priests and Mahatmas like Jagdao (who was very childlike) are
often entrusted with people's children because the parents think the man will be
a good influence. The priest or Mahatma is secretly sexually frustrated although
the parents probably think he's a saint. His sexual desire manifests towards the
children because these are the only people he can get close to. The "saintly"
man cannot get close to women (or gay men if he's gay) because his sainthood
would be in jepardy. So he naturally becomes a paedophile. I think there must
have been a lot of Mahatmas who turned out this way. They were the victim of a
repressive regime as much as the abused children were.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 23:38:32
(EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Jagdeo
Message:
What's the
evidence on Jagdeo molesting children? The other amazing thing was that at least
one of these women reported to PAM that Jagdeo was molesting little girlson a
regular basis (mostly by getting little girls to go privately into his room),
and apparently little, if anything was done about it. Some of these incidences
occurred in Miami. I was community coordinator in Miami after that and it was
never mentioned to me by anyone that kids should be supervised with Jagdeo or
anything else. This, despite the fact that Jagdeo was in Miami for much of that
time, giving blissful satsang to the community and at big festival programs. I
just hope that I never inadvertently gave Jagdeo access to his victims. Just
like with the other mahatmas who misbehaved sexually or criminally (Fakiranand,
Parolkanand, Tejeswaranand) DLM and the big M never took responsibility for what
these people were doing, and this is especially irresponsible because they were
doing it to premies and their families who were supposed to trust these people
and look upon them as realized souls, when they were sometimes just dirty old
men. JW, Please don't feel responsible for someone else's criminal
behavior. Besides, how could you prevent something that you weren't even made
aware of? VP
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 00:31:00
(EST)
Poster: Joy
Email: [email protected]
To:
VP
Subject: Re: Jagdeo
Message:
I think part of the
problem was that these Mahatmas came from an Eastern society, which has very
strict and repressive rules about how men and women can interact. I do not doubt
that they probably behaved themselves there. Then, when they get to the sexually
liberated West, and these societal controls are now gone, and there are all
these young "sisters" looking up to them, and anxious to spend time with them
(since they're holy men) they just lose control, perhaps because their socially
imposed morals do not apply here, or so they think. Maybe they thought there was
nothing wrong with it, or that they could get away with it, since they were in a
different, and more liberal society, and were also on power trips enabled by
Maharaji. I'm sure that Maharaji's obsession with materialism is also a backlash
from having been born in one of the most poverty stricken countries on the
planet. I have seen the same phenomenon in other immigrants from poorer
countries. When they get to this country, money is ALL, virtually nothing
becomes more important.
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 05:59:50
(EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Joy
Subject: Re: Jagdeo
Message:
M's present full-time
instructors have the same problem. I personally know of 2 women having been
abused by western instructors. 1 of the cases was reported to PAM and to m. He
doesn't care. Do you want the names of those well known instructors?
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 10:39:46
(EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: [email protected]
To: Joy
Subject: Re: Jagdeo
Message:
Very
true what you said there. But you also get the scenario that I mentioned above.
I think if a person is denied sexual relationships with an adult for years and
years then it can become horribly warped, for some people. The materialism thing
is very true. But there is a slight difference in that Maharaji came from a
wealthy high caste family. I don't understand his materialism. For years I
thought it was a lila, that the Lord had come with more power than ever before
so he wanted only the best this world could offer. I think many of us thought
that. Now Maharaji's materialism is something alien and incomprehensible to me.
I wonder if he will ever realise that living in opulence from the fruits of his
devotees deters many people from wanting to follow him. Perhaps he is thinking
that the new generation of premies will see him as the Lord again. I will be
very interested what the Lord who has come to save the world will have to say
about the ensuing dangerous war between our two countries and Iraq.
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 11:38:22
(EST)
Poster: JW
Email: [email protected]
To: Sir
David
Subject: Re: Jagdeo
Message:
The
materialism thing is very true. But there is a slight difference in that
Maharaji came from a wealthy high caste family. I don't understand his
materialism. For years I thought it was a lila, that the Lord had come with more
power than ever before so he wanted only the best this world could offer. I
think many of us thought that. Now Maharaji's materialism is something alien and
incomprehensible to me. I wonder if he will ever realise that living in opulence
from the fruits of his devotees deters many people from wanting to follow him.
Perhaps he is thinking that the new generation of premies will see him as the
Lord again. I will be very interested what the Lord who has come to save the
world will have to say about the ensuing dangerous war between our two countries
and Iraq. I don't recall Maharaji ever had much to say about
world/current events. I don't believe he ever understood them and lived in such
an unreal world that he had no idea how such events affect real, ordinary
people. I can recall him making outrageously stupid comments about such things
as the nuclear disarmament movement (he made fun of it as worthless) and the oil
embargo, his understanding or which was extremely screwed up -- that's when he
said the reason for an oil shortage was because there hadn't been enough
dinosaurs. Really, that's the stupid thing he said. I think he got most of his
information from television and he used to talk about how he never read a book,
and I doubt that has changed much. But as to his incredible materialism, I think
it has become a deep-rooted psychological thing for him. Like some other people,
Maharaji feels he needs the best of everything to help him define who he is.
Since I believe he has doubts that he really is god, I think if he gets lots of
the best the world has to offer materially, it is an indication to him that he
must be somebody important, and if his devotees give him these things, they must
be devoted, and he must be worthy of devotion. Right? But like sex and alcohol,
if you are using material things and an opulent lifestyle for psychological
purposes, it becomes a never-ending treadmill. There is never enough. I think
that's why it's such a never-ending need for him to have the lastest plane, all
the latest and most luxury cars, and residences (with marble and gold plumbing
fixtures) all over the world. More than just plain greed, it has become a
psychological need.
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 11:59:06
(EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: [email protected]
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Jagdeo
Message:
Mr Ex
wrote regarding women who had been abused by certain instructors: "Do you want
the names of those well known instructors?" The answer is yes. It won't mean
much to me unless they're so well known that I remember them from the eighties
but I'm sure people watching this site would like to know. However there could
be a danger of being sued, or would there??
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 12:58:35
(EST)
Poster: Joy
Email: [email protected]
To:
Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Jagdeo
Message:
M's
present full-time instructors have the same problem. I personally know of 2
women having been abused by western instructors. 1 of the cases was reported to
PAM and to m. He doesn't care. Do you want the names of those well known
instructors? Yes, sure, I would like the names of those instructors.
If you don't want to post them to the site, you can e-mail them to me. But I
think you should post them, as it might serve as a deterrent for any future
abuses. And I'm not surprised that M. doesn't care. It should be painfully
obvious by now to anyone who reads this site or has been a premie that M.
doesn't care about anyone but himself.
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Date: Mon, Feb 9, 1998 at 10:52:50
(EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Sir David
Subject: Instructors raping premies? (Re: Jagdeo)
Message:
>Mr Ex wrote regarding women who had been >abused
by certain instructors: >Do you want the names of those well known
>instructors?' >The answer is yes. It won't mean much to me unless
>they're so well known that I remember them from the >eighties but I'm
sure people watching this site would like >to know. However there could be a
danger of being sued, >or would there?? I wouldn’t want to be sued by those
people that should be sued, and will be I hope. The thing is that these guys
can’t be sued for the moment for technical reasons. Complain has already be
filed to authorities for one of them. For the 2nd case, the abused woman is in
such a psychological wreck that she can’t do anything for the moment. My feeling
is that many women have been recently abused by those dangerous guys. Why? I
don’t personally know that many premies. Amongst the few I know well enough to
receive that kind of confidence, there are 2 cases of that type. What should I
think? My advice for female premies : keep as far as you can from those guys.
Listen to them if you like. If you find them very seductive, fine. Some really
are. NEVER invite them home. Never stay alone with ANY of them. Be extremely
careful with those of the crooner type, specially with Rody Schmull. These guys
sing too well to be true. Be extremely careful with those of the ‘doctor’ type,
specially with John Horton. These guys might care too much for you.
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Date: Mon, Feb 9, 1998 at 12:10:43
(EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Materialist
frenzy ...
Subject: Re: Jagdeo
Message:
There are some
hints to understand his frenzy about materialism : 1/ Megalomania/paranoia :
don’t forget that type of guru is of the paranoid type, according to
psychologists. He is absolutely convinced he is the Almighty in person for all
the reasons we all know (pre-psychotic). 2/ He is very small in size : --->
inferiority complex? 3/ He is the youngest of 4 sons. 4/ He is Indian and was
brought up in a quite poor environment. Lots of Indians (and from other
nationalities) are after material success. He has something to prove to his
mother after all. 5/ God deserves everything. That’s been his leitmotiv for
decades. He is devoted to Himself.
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Date: Mon, Feb 9, 1998 at 13:14:57
(EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Instructors raping premies? (Re: Jagdeo)
Message:
Just curious. I know John Horton and have no doubt that
those puppy-dog eyes and his "bedside manner" could be attractive to a lot of
women. But what country is "Rody Scmull" from. Is he an American like "Dr.
John"?
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Date: Mon, Feb 9, 1998 at 13:38:20
(EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Instructors raping premies? (Re: Jagdeo)
Message:
Rody is from Netherlands. He's been an instructor for
almost 20 years One of the PAM .... BTW: did you got my emails Joe? I might have
a problem with my provider. I never got any answer from you.
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Date: Mon, Feb 9, 1998 at 16:25:48
(EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Mr Ex and JW
Subject: Re: Instructors raping premies? (Re: Jagdeo)
Message:
Have you heard of any of these guys raping or abusing
these women during initiation sessions, or is all of this stuff happening later
on?
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Date: Mon, Feb 9, 1998 at 18:07:43
(EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Instructors raping premies? (Re: Jagdeo)
Message:
Rody is from Netherlands. He's been an
instructor for almost 20 years One of the PAM .... BTW: did you got my emails
Joe? I might have a problem with my provider. I never got any answer from you.
Are you talking about e-mails recently? I haven't gotten anything
from you in a few months. When did you send them?
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Date: Tues, Feb 10, 1998 at
06:16:45 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Instructors raping premies? (Re: Jagdeo)
Message:
>Have you heard of any of these guys raping or
>abusing these women during initiation sessions, >or is all of this stuff
happening later on? I’ve never heard of instructors abusing a woman during k
session. They did it a long time afterwards, with very devoted female premies.
You can imagine how easy it is to mix personal feelings with devotion to a
fantasy. And the result? In a way I can say they’ve been lucky to suffer this,
because it caused such a damage that they had to question the whole thing,
including their relationship with m, and that helped them to leave the cult. But
what a pain. You can’t leave this without pain anyway, specially if you’re
devoted wholeheartedly.
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Date: Tues, Feb 10, 1998 at
19:41:08 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Instructors raping premies? (Re: Jagdeo)
Message:
>Have you heard of any of these guys raping
or >abusing these women during initiation sessions, >or is all of this
stuff happening later on? I’ve never heard of instructors abusing a woman during
k session. They did it a long time afterwards, with very devoted female premies.
You can imagine how easy it is to mix personal feelings with devotion to a
fantasy. And the result? In a way I can say they’ve been lucky to suffer this,
because it caused such a damage that they had to question the whole thing,
including their relationship with m, and that helped them to leave the cult. But
what a pain. You can’t leave this without pain anyway, specially if you’re
devoted wholeheartedly. Thanks for that answer. I hope that this
doesn't happen to anyone else. What a terrible way to learn the truth about
this! I hope those bastards are stopped.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 11:37:30
(EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: prmie kids beoming premies
Message:
Bongos
posting got me thinking - if he really is 14, that is: I wonder how many of the
premies have kids who received knowledge? There was a certain percentage of 20
something people in Long Beach. Not many, maybe 5% of the whole crowd of 40 or
older boomers, and I'll bet most of the younger crowd were kids of premies. I
heard one mother proudly announce that she had 5 kids and 3 of them received
knowledge. I know the woman who married B. McDermott has 2 kids who did. I am SO
glad my children were independent thinkers. They liked listening to his tapes,
they have an experience of spirituality and understand what the K is that M
talks about. My son said over Christmas "why do premies always talk about
receiving knowledge when everyone already has it?" I was really happy to hear
that. Anyone have thoughts on parents that encourage their kids to get involved?
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 11:46:29
(EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Selena
Subject: Re: prmie kids beoming premies
Message:
Don't
forget that 90% of the premies leave the cult, sooner or later! Same thing for
children. I know some who received k when very young, and are still into it ....
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 15:17:41
(EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Selena
Subject: Re: prmie kids beoming premies
Message:
Selena, I had some older family members-not my parents
who got me involved and that is similar. These family members have also tried to
influence their children with little success. I was older and I guess I was more
gullible. I like to think that their children had more opportunity to see the
negative aspects of the lifestyle being there 24 hours a day. One of them said
to me once, "Oh, yeah, Maharaji, now there's a real sincere guy."
(Sarcastically) I know that he gets mail from EV and throws it away. It's
probably the same as in any other religion in that the parents try to get the
kids to believe what they do.
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 07:22:15
(EST)
Poster: Seymour
Email: [email protected]
To: Selena
Subject: Re: prmie kids beoming premies
Message:
Hello Selena, I only look in on the site occasionally and
this time it was great to read that you have decided to abandon premiedom and
join the land of the feethinkers where open, honest discussion is one of our
chosen methods in the search for Truth . You , along with the rest of us
ex-premies have escaped from what seemed like a safe haven but is just a
cul-de-sac in which we all lived on the promise that if we stayed there long
enough the ‘MotherShip’ would arrived from the other side of the Universe and
beam us away to Permanent Nirvana, Satchitanand ,cosmic realisation or whatever.
Although the cul-de-sac was a cosy place to be compared to the precarious,
unpredictable world outside it was a digression on the path to truth. Now that
you have managed to break through the psychological barriers that have at some
time held us all, you can carry on your journey with greater vigilance and
hopefully never get enticed into another of the many cul-de-sacs that seem to be
having a nice street party but from which it is very hard to leave. I hope you
enjoy the Forum. Cheers from Seymour. P.S. re: your topic on children. I hope
that we have all learnt not to pass our superstitions or irrational beliefs on
to our children and encourage them to search for meaning in this life but doubt
everything.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 21:44:44
(EST)
Poster: bongo
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: happy premie
Message:
one happy not
brainwashed premie of fourteen years says to dan we are all around you and still
perfectly normal......
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at
22:11:23 (EST)
Poster: lover of whom?
Email: bill burke
To: bongo
Subject: lover of a fiction. (Re: happy premie)
Message:
Oh Hooray, another athiest cheering on another athiest.
Great, maharaji has all but admitted that he is not god and yet he also plays
the master/god and you are just so lucky to be a part of the magic. Isn't it a
wonderful thing to not recognise the reality of a greater thing and instead play
along with the emperor with his new clothes. The clothes that don't exist. I'm
sure your mother is so proud of her son who is the great athiest. Proudly
saluteing someone who is asking, I mean requireing that you look at him as the
one who is worthy of worship, service,adoration,support,and telling you all
manner of things that are just flat out incorrect. Being deaf, you only hear it
as you allow. Being blind, you only see it as you allow. When you die, wont you
be proud to see how you missed the boat in life and instead watched a fake lord
play out his hallucination to your clapping.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 00:26:09
(EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: [email protected]
To: lover of whom?
Subject: Re: lover of a fiction. (Re:
happy premie)
Message:
Bill Burke wrote to a happy premie: "I'm
sure your mother is so proud of her son who is the great athiest. When you die,
wont you be proud to see how you missed the boat in life and instead watched a
fake lord play out his hallucination to your clapping." I don't agree with what
you've written here about the happy premie. My personal feelings are that it's
fine to critisise Maharaji because he's put himself there in that position, that
can be critisised. But a person who sincerely wants to follow maharaji is just a
person like you or I, who is trying to do what he feels is the right thing and I
don't think he/she deserves or should even get our critisism. Who are we to tell
others what path to tread? Who are we to tell others whether their Mother should
or should not be proud of them and definitely, nobody here has a right to tell
someone what they should be feeling upon their death. While I agree with most of
the rest of your post, Bill, this slagging off of the happy premie by you really
grates on me and sticks in my throat. These are my feelings...
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 01:11:40
(EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email:
[email protected]
To: bongo
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
In my experience, there is no such thing as a not
brainwashed premie.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 01:12:15
(EST)
Poster: G
Email:
To: lover of whom?
Subject: Re: lover of a fiction. (Re: happy premie)
Message:
Bill Burke: legend of clarity in his proud mind. poet to
the electron screen new promises to keep stuck to the earth but floating in time
he caught his boat of life the Titanic in his twilight zone.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 10:19:56
(EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: Sir David
Subject: Re: lover of a fiction. (Re: happy premie)
Message:
David: Normally, I would agree with you, and maybe I do
to a certain extent, in saying that everyone should be allowed to believe
whatever they want freely, without criticism etc.; howsomeever, given the unique
nature of this web site, I don't think burke is entirely out of line in wailing
away at the bongo happy premie. After all, if the bongo happy premie really IS
bongo happy, burke's words will not touch the bongo happy premie. In my astute
analysis, I believe burke was saying these words for his own benefit more than
the bongo happy premie. This goes back to the belief that the best advice we
give is what we should listen to ourselves. The other thing is that this is the
web site for the EX-premies. Ex's who feel these feelings like burke does should
be allowed to post them. bongo happy premies should be expected to be questioned
and challenged on this site to a certain extent. I still don't understand why
premies don't have their own web site. What, are they all too technologically
challenged to be able to do it? And if they are able to, and they want to post
to a web site as apparently they do if they post here, then why don't they just
get their own?
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 10:27:51
(EST)
Poster: Hello
Email: bb
To: Sir David
Subject: Sir David (Re: happy premie)
Message:
Hello
there Sir David. I thought that was Mili. I see 14 years so maybe not. Either
way, bongo is no stranger to this site and if they are going to make it appear
as if there is no major deception and life ruining effect from maharaji's
influence I am here to say otherwise. Anyone who wants to play the fraud of
'normal' victim of maharaji to try and decieve the new guy Dan is definately a
target of straight talk and some idea of 'what he feels is right' is no excuse.
We do no favor to someone to just let them be trapped and adopt a 'it's none of
my business' approach. This guy Dan is poking around here and what a mean thing
to do to imply that it's all just 'normal' and 'happy'. THAT is the meanspirited
thing. THAT is the worst sort of mistreatment going on in this forum right now.
THAT is why it pissed me off so bad. THAT to me is just the worst thing you
could do to someone like Dan is to not warn him and instead, do like the person
who started this thread. I'll bet they were lying and they are not a 14 year
premie. That would make them recieve knowledge in 84. Or 83. Someone has used
that bongo name here before and they were old timers. By the way, thank you for
being so honest about nectar and meditation. Your experience and it's results
are so good to know because they confirm the reality that we don't become some
otherwordly god drenched constant godhead person. You are down to earth and
real. Maharaji would have us believe that he is in some 'OTHER' place and he is
lord and he is without equal. There are NO equals around him. NO one is allowed
to act like a peer. He, in his narcissism and hindu god ego cannot leave the
image of superiority. There is no god but him. For his victims, they are
condemed to a life of trying to love a lord that is just a hindu pretender. He
hopes we will leave him do his thing and have his fantasy world and let him
waste the lives of his followers like all the hindu guru's do.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 10:48:00
(EST)
Poster: Hello there
Email: bb
To: G
Subject: CD (Re: happy premie)
Message:
Hello CD. Look
at this. If you poke through the new testament you see all the stuff
yeshua/jesus said. I mean just mark,luke,john and matt. The big commandment was
love god and love others. So how does that apply in maharaji's world? He said in
the video I just saw that relationships are not it. and family is not it. but
that 'fulfillment' was going inside to 'get away' from it all for a while. Well
instead of loving god he wants us to 'respect' (love) the master. Kiss his holy
feet. Then, instead of finding love in our family and friends and god, we are
led into the hindu misperception of life that we are supposed to attain some
fantasy 'place' and have god realisation and live for the master. STILL the same
trip as before. HE wont humble himself to god and recognise his need to beg
redemption from god. So he will be brought down the hard way. Fine with me. I am
fine with helping to crush his trip. He comes from the idea that is all
illusion. He plays god and we play devotees. The game is a horror. If maharaji
is not god then in fact we are athiests. Nice to find out huh? When all men are
equal and flawed and the only commandment really is to love god and love others
and ourselves, then the whole distraction of maharaji has been a complete waste
of a precious life. Some people here are saying how they had 'good friends'.
Well ALL young people make good companions usually. I missed so many times with
my family and friends and THEY were really good folks. All to follow the lord.
If he had come to his mid life crisis and then made a turn to honesty I would
have a easier time with this whole issue but he is brazenly pursueing the lord
master angle all the more. Well, that means war.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 10:59:11
(EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: everyone
Subject: Re: lover of a fiction. (Re: happy premie)
Message:
I don't know Sir David. Is it really harmless to let this
cult worship stuff be posted here without criticism? Having recently escaped I
am not so sure. What are they reading this site for if not because they have
doubts? And since M is always asking the premies to bring people to videos and
recruit more members, then there is obviously a sinister side someone posting
here about how beautiful it is to be a premie. I had a similar conversation with
a premie recently, she kept saying what's the harm? she pointed out that neither
one of us ever gave much money (I never could I was too broke traveling all over
the place to those programs, etc.. while somehow attempting to support a family
on nothing) she also said stuff like, it's only a personal thing between her and
M and the meditation, she doesn't try to get anyone else to get involved, etc..
Yet I know one person for sure that she invited to a video. Then there was her
reason for always telling me about the events, she "understood my pain and
wanted to help" - yeah ok, but when what I really needed was a friend to be
honest and talk to me about the stuff I cared about or needed to hear, forget
it, she wouldn't do it. I don't think my story is an isolated one. I think a lot
of premies just don't see the whole picture and I am wondering if it isn't
almost a responsibility of this site to point out some of the not so wonderful
things about M's world, the World of Knowledge as he is calling it this year. I
know I was relieved to read the criticisms here.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 14:41:20
(EST)
Poster: bftb
Email:
To: Mickey the
Pharisee
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
In your
opinion;who does the brainwashing and do you think it's intentionally done or
inadvertant?
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 14:55:44
(EST)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Hello there
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
Hello CD.
Look at this. If you poke through the new testament you see all the stuff
yeshua/jesus said. I mean just mark,luke,john and matt. The big commandment was
love god and love others. So how does that apply in maharaji's world? He said in
the video I just saw that relationships are not it. and family is not it. but
that 'fulfillment' was going inside to 'get away' from it all for a while. Well
instead of loving god he wants us to 'respect' (love) the master. Kiss his holy
feet. Then, instead of finding love in our family and friends and god, we are
led into the hindu misperception of life that we are supposed to attain some
fantasy 'place' and have god realisation and live for the master. STILL the same
trip as before. HE wont humble himself to god and recognise his need to beg
redemption from god. So he will be brought down the hard way. Fine with me. I am
fine with helping to crush his trip. He comes from the idea that is all
illusion. He plays god and we play devotees. The game is a horror. If maharaji
is not god then in fact we are athiests. Nice to find out huh? When all men are
equal and flawed and the only commandment really is to love god and love others
and ourselves, then the whole distraction of maharaji has been a complete waste
of a precious life. Some people here are saying how they had 'good friends'.
Well ALL young people make good companions usually. I missed so many times with
my family and friends and THEY were really good folks. All to follow the lord.
If he had come to his mid life crisis and then made a turn to honesty I would
have a easier time with this whole issue but he is brazenly pursueing the lord
master angle all the more. Well, that means war. So there you go on
yet another crusade. Baptize them heathen pagans by sword and hellfire if they
don't share your opinion about 'the way things really are'... It's not called
'inquisition' anymore - now, its 'deprogramming'. I just saw a documentary about
how Pizzaro wiped out the Inca kingdom. Murdered, pillaged, raped. And brought
all that gold back to his Christian king and queen.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 15:33:39
(EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email:
[email protected]
To: bftb
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
In your opinion;who does the brainwashing and
do you think it's intentionally done or inadvertant? This is all in
the context of my own experience with K and DLM in the mid-70's: I allowed
myself to be brainwashed because I wanted it all to be true; I wanted M to be
the Lord of the Universe, I wanted to be in on the ground floor of the new
religion with the latest incarnation of God, I wanted to realize God, I wanted
to believe that we were all full of love and bliss and that by hiding under a
blanket with my fingers in my ears I could bring about world peace. Any time I
experienced cognitive dissonance, I would quickly put the doubts aside. I
remember being so disappointed when given K; I argued with the Initiator: Of
course you will see 'light' when you push on your optic nerve! But I had waited
awhile to receive this 'precious knowledge' and I sure didn't want to admit that
I had been suckered! So I tried to be a good Premie, until I could no longer
ignore the cognitive dissonance or the iconsistancies or the actual lack of love
among the Lovers. I did the brainwashing, along with the Premies and the
Festivals and the music and the mind-numbing Satsang. I went along with it all,
and I ignored my own good sense and doubts. Maybe brainwashed is too strong a
word; perhaps I should use 'self-deluded' from now on.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 16:10:42
(EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Selena and Sir
David
Subject: Re: lover of a fiction. (Re: happy premie)
Message:
I think it's really important for ex-premies to tell
their true feelings about Maharaji, as you say. But I do think it's important,
and more productive, to phrase these feelings in the form of "I" statements
without attacking the feelings of premies who post on here. I don't think one
can really argue with someone's FEELING, but you can say "I don't feel that way,
and here is why". I think that attacking someone's statements directly tends to
polarize people. I'm not exactly sure what Sir David meant, but I think he was
trying to say something like the above. (Maybe...you'll have to let me know.)
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 16:28:31
(EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: [email protected]
To: Mili the Warrior
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
It's not called 'inquisition' anymore - now,
its 'deprogramming'. I just saw a documentary about how Pizzaro wiped out the
Inca kingdom. Murdered, pillaged, raped. And brought all that gold back to his
Christian king and queen. Dear Mili, I can't understand why you keep
equating the ex-premies with 1) Nazis 2) white supremacists 3) the KKK, and now
4) Pizzaro and the Spanish Inquisition. Pretty soon, you're going to say that
we're like Saddam Hussein! You seem to equate ex-premies with a persecuting and
morally corrupt majority and premies with a threatened, innocent, minority,
which is not the way it is at all. Also, you have said, on Usenet, that the
ex-premies are not allowing the premies freedom of religion! This is absolutely
NOT TRUE. For one thing, both premies and M say that M's organization is not a
religion. For another, there's certainly been no festivals or appearances by M
cancelled because of ex-premies. Nor do ex-premies disrupt nightly meditations
or video programs. And as far as the premie website goes, M, (or "people around
M") pulled the plug on that one. I feel like you are fighting a battle against
an invisible and unidentified enemy - whoever it is, IT'S NOT THE EX-PREMIES! I
believe that ex-premies should have freedom of speech and should be able to say
what they think and believe. I believe the same should be true for premies (I
also believe that premies should be able to have a web site if they want to. Do
you?) If you, or anyone else, wants to follow M, then that's no concern of mine.
I and every other ex-premie should, however, be able to say what we think and
feel and know about M without being accused of religious persecution.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 16:56:12
(EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: [email protected]
To: Everyone
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
What I was talking about in my above post is that by
attacking a premie for following Maharaji, no useful result will come of it. I
was once a staunch premie and in my heyday I used to enjoy people critisising me
about following Maharaji. It did not change my beliefs one iota. What got me
about Bill's post was that he was attacking Happy Premie personally by saying
that his mother wouldn't be proud of him and that he'd regret everything when he
died. I think such personal attacks are counterproductive. For sure if happy
premie is happy with his lot then nobody here is going to change his mind about
Maharaji. So why attack him? It will simply alienate him against ex-premies.
When I was a staunch premie, if people had attacked me in that way it wouldn't
have changed my beliefs in Maharaji. Perhaps it would have done the opposite. If
people are deluded, then attacking them will only force them deeper into that
delution. More importantly, an observer who is trying to make up their mind
about things is going to side with the non attacking peaceful folk. I agree with
attacking Maharaji because he claims to be above us all. But attacking his
devotees serves no purpose, in my opinion.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 17:16:09
(EST)
Poster: Selena
Email:
To: Sir David
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
I see what you mean
now, and I agree completely. All attacking someone's religiosity does is
encourage it, I've seen it over and over. One of the things I hope to gain from
all this mess is some tolerance and compassion for the people still into M.
Right now I am too close to it for that. I am impressed with the people on this
list. It seems that when someone misunderstands a post, there is usually a
follow-up explanation rather than some defensive flame. That was part of why I
kept reading it these past weeks, and why I finally got the nerve to post.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 17:20:34
(EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: [email protected]
To: Bill
Subject: Re: Sir David (Re: happy premie)
Message:
A good description of Maharaji's trip there. After having
studied Hinduism I think it's a most damaging religion if followed to the
extremes. It is an attempt to make people inhuman. It is an attempt to deny
basic human experiences and emotions. Also it advocated detatchment from friends
and family as a goal which is damaging for all concerned. If we are born as
humans, why not act like we are supposed to be? Human. To deny our humanity
seems to deny the reason for being here in the first place.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 18:59:47
(EST)
Poster: Bongo
Email:
To: Mickey the
Pharisee
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
Hey Mickey
believe its true
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 19:22:44
(EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email:
[email protected]
To: Bongo
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
Hey Mickey believe its true I
believe it is true that I had been suckered and deceived and separated from my
friends and family and relieved of my cash.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 19:37:05
(EST)
Poster: bongo
Email:
To: Mickey the
Pharisee
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
Mickey one
question. When you went to get K wot woz your reason?? how come I have all those
things u have lost an K makes me live in the moment.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 19:37:35
(EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email:
[email protected]
To: Mili
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
Hello CD. Look at this. If you poke
through the new testament you see all the stuff yeshua/jesus said. I mean just
mark,luke,john and matt. The big commandment was love god and love others. So
how does that apply in maharaji's world? He said in the video I just saw that
relationships are not it. and family is not it. but that 'fulfillment' was going
inside to 'get away' from it all for a while. Well instead of loving god he
wants us to 'respect' (love) the master. Kiss his holy feet. Then, instead of
finding love in our family and friends and god, we are led into the hindu
misperception of life that we are supposed to attain some fantasy 'place' and
have god realisation and live for the master. STILL the same trip as before. HE
wont humble himself to god and recognise his need to beg redemption from god. So
he will be brought down the hard way. Fine with me. I am fine with helping to
crush his trip. He comes from the idea that is all illusion. He plays god and we
play devotees. The game is a horror. If maharaji is not god then in fact we are
athiests. Nice to find out huh? When all men are equal and flawed and the only
commandment really is to love god and love others and ourselves, then the whole
distraction of maharaji has been a complete waste of a precious life. Some
people here are saying how they had 'good friends'. Well ALL young people make
good companions usually. I missed so many times with my family and friends and
THEY were really good folks. All to follow the lord. If he had come to his mid
life crisis and then made a turn to honesty I would have a easier time with this
whole issue but he is brazenly pursueing the lord master angle all the more.
Well, that means war. So there you go on yet another crusade.
Baptize them heathen pagans by sword and hellfire if they don't share your
opinion about 'the way things really are'... It's not called 'inquisition'
anymore - now, its 'deprogramming'. I just saw a documentary about how Pizzaro
wiped out the Inca kingdom. Murdered, pillaged, raped. And brought all that gold
back to his Christian king and queen. Gee Mili, did the Incas teach
this knowledge? There have been atrocities committed by most major religions and
civilizations (read up on the Incas, buddy) and there is no defense of such
acts; they are wrong and actually have nothing to do with the true practice of
religion, but these actions have no relevance to the discussions of M and his
minions on this site. You, as usual, have put up a straw man.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 19:44:53
(EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email:
[email protected]
To: bongo
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
Mickey one question. When you went to get K wot
woz your reason?? how come I have all those things u have lost an K makes me
live in the moment. I went to get K because I wanted to experience
God. I'm not sure what you think I have lost; I have gained everything by
leaving the cult. I now have a wonderful wife and children, I belong to an
actual loving community, I have a purpose in my life, and I am no longer broke
from flying all over the planet to watch M dance with his shirt off. I now
experience God through my loved ones and my community and I am also able to deal
with things in a rational matter, no more 'Guru's grace' illusions. I am much
happier and experience much more love than I ever did as a Premie.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 20:05:38
(EST)
Poster: bongo
Email:
To: Mickey the
Pharisee
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
Sorry u had
to pay to travel see M etc..as u may or may not know some premies are able to
travel the world gain entry to progs etc completely free something to do with
Grace I think.K fills my life with that sort of magic.. not M but K itself.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 22:40:31
(EST)
Poster: MOOD
Email: bb
To: Mili
Subject: SWING (Re: happy premie)
Message:
Hello Mili.
well I can't sustain a warlike feeling for very long I guess. But anyway, I felt
it and it came out. You also have felt pretty hot sometimes here don't fergit.
It passes. Sorry about mentioning your mom. Don't forget someone called in some
death threats. Maybe it was CD. or perhaps Katie? The find about love god,
yourself and others as being the only requirement of god is an excellent bit of
info. Kind of lets us off a lot of hooks. Or rather, MANY people, christians
too, have many requirements they say we have to do in life. It is good to find
out that it is only one sentence long. That covers it. Then just proceed in your
freely spent time. But really, maharaji is in error. It might not be so costly
for those who are just dabbling in knowledge. But for the ones coming now, they
can't have thier own religion and come to get the techniques, thats a blunder,
they have to get into and state alliegance to the idea of master/god. I guess
it's doomed wether I do anything or not. So much for my old long dream.
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 00:24:12
(EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: bongo
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
Sorry u
had to pay to travel see M etc..as u may or may not know some premies are able
to travel the world gain entry to progs etc completely free something to do with
Grace I think.K fills my life with that sort of magic.. not M but K itself.
How nice for you. By the way, can you get frequent flyer miles with
that "travel grace?"
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 00:41:38
(EST)
Poster: Joy
Email: [email protected]
To:
JW
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
Travel free to
programs? Pray, how do they manage that? Does the Grace just instantly transport
them all there via some sunbeam, without a plane? If I had worked a normal job
all during my 20s and saved some money and put a downpayment on a house or condo
instead of running all over the planet after GMJ (at one point in 1977 he was
doing a program every 19 days in a different city, which everyone in the ashram
was required to attend), I would be a LOT better off financially and spiritually
than I am now, having given all my possessions away and lived out of two
suitcases in the ashram all that time. So I guess it's by Maharaji's "Grace" I
never went to college, trained for a career, had kids, or anything else normal
folks do in their 20s. Thank you Maharaji, I'll be eternally grateful.
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 05:37:46
(EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: [email protected]
To:
Sir David
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
What I was talking about in my above post is
that by attacking a premie for following Maharaji, no useful result will come of
it. I was once a staunch premie and in my heyday I used to enjoy people
critisising me about following Maharaji. It did not change my beliefs one iota.
What got me about Bill's post was that he was attacking Happy Premie personally
by saying that his mother wouldn't be proud of him and that he'd regret
everything when he died. I think such personal attacks are counterproductive.
For sure if happy premie is happy with his lot then nobody here is going to
change his mind about Maharaji. So why attack him? It will simply alienate him
against ex-premies. When I was a staunch premie, if people had attacked me in
that way it wouldn't have changed my beliefs in Maharaji. Perhaps it would have
done the opposite. If people are deluded, then attacking them will only force
them deeper into that delution. More importantly, an observer who is trying to
make up their mind about things is going to side with the non attacking peaceful
folk. I agree with attacking Maharaji because he claims to be above us all. But
attacking his devotees serves no purpose, in my opinion. I agree
with you completely on this, Sir David. People who are attacking premies, and
trying to 'deprogram' them are in effect, bigger fanatics than the ones they
propose to 'save'. It's easy to see that the 'deprogrammers' imposing these
'cult' stigmata and using violent methods in the name of the 'common good' are
just doing it out of desire for notoriety or personal gain. I believe that
realistic, factual information should be made available to all, and allow people
to make up their own minds. By 'realistic' , I mean presenting both sides of the
coin - I can hardly believe that Maharaji is out to rip me off, when he doesn't
charge money for the Knowledge, and in the twenty five years that I have been
involved, he has never asked me to give money to him. Compare that to many
Catholic countries where church tax is mandatory for everyone, for example.
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 05:56:01
(EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Who's using violence? (Re: happy premie)
Message:
Talking about violence .... Who ordered premie.com's
closing? Who tried to close alt.cult.maharaji? Mr Rawat, and some of his
minions. I vote for re-opening www.premie.com You can host it on your web site,
you have my blessings.
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Date: Sat, Feb 7, 1998 at 09:03:34
(EST)
Poster: lg
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: happy premie
Message:
Sorry u
had to pay to travel see M etc..as u may or may not know some premies are able
to travel the world gain entry to progs etc completely free something to do with
Grace I think.K fills my life with that sort of magic.. not M but K itself. How
nice for you. By the way, can you get frequent flyer miles with that 'travel
grace?' When a person don't know something or the origin of
something, it's easy to say this is "grace and/or magic". And blame it on that.
Therefore grace is or equal to ignorance. Sorry! I prefer to be in knowledge of
my life. Being in knowledge of, is an other term for being enlightened.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 21:09:19
(EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: [email protected]
To: Everyone
Subject: Broken forms and virus scares
Message:
The subject field on the start thread form is broken.
I'll fix it after I post this. In the thread at the bottom of the index ("Forum
Reset") is an ongoing debate as to whether or not zipped archive files can hide
a vicious virus or not. It can't. I specifically decided not to use
self-extracting zip files (executables) to eliminate this from even coming up.
Didn't work. A zipped file contains files that are compressed. After
de-compressing (un-zipping) them, you have the files that the zipper (me)
started with - plus the original zip file that doesn't get deleted in the
process. Were I to just put the files on the site in an unzipped form, and you
were to save them to disk, you would end up with what is contained in the zip
file. You would also take up to 4 times longer to accomplish that. You will find
that when you unzip the archives, you have unzipped HTML files. These files can
tell a web browser what to print and where to print it on your screen. They can
also tell it what color to use, how big to make the letters. On this site, they
tell Netscape what pictures to retrieve and where to print them on the screen.
Ex-premie.org does not use Javascript or Java Applets. There is nothing that you
can get from this site other than the facts about a truly bizarre cult that we
were all once a part of. None of the archived files from Forum II are on this
site without having been screened and reformatted by a program that I wrote to
do this. Cross my heart.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 21:26:06
(EST)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Broken forms and virus scares
Message:
Okay, the form's fixed. I had filled the field with
spaces as I was checking to make sure that it would accept 40 characters (the
Subject length limit). I forgot to delete them, so everyone got a form with that
field already completely filled with spaces. Of course it looked empty, and
simply refused to accept any more input.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 21:48:36
(EST)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Broken forms and bongo posts (Re: Broken forms and virus
scares)
Message:
bongo was unfortunate enough to try to post when
the new thread form was broken. Reading the post took some gymnastics. I deleted
his/her posts and re-entered the only one with content above. The other post
contained only a question mark in the message area. I signed the post, "bongo".
It's a name that just came to me...
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 22:04:10
(EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Brian, Anon, Katie
Subject: War of the Worlds... (Re: Broken forms and virus scares)
Message:
Thanks for this explanation-my friend says you are
practising safe computer for sure and that I can relax! Didn't want to panic
everyone, but I'd rather know these things and be safe rather than sorry. Your
computer novice-VP
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 20:31:34
(EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: [email protected]
To: Everyone
Subject: alt.cult.maharaji on Deja News
Message:
I recently asked Deja News if they were still listing
alt.cult.maharaji as a newsgroup. Here's their answer (followed by my question):
Subject: Re: Where is alt.cult.maharaji? Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 18:47:28 -0600
(CST) From: User Liaison 7 To: katie
Have no fear, it's not disappeared. We have certain
"quotas," so to speak, that each group must meet over a specified time period.
We cannot list every newsgroup on our browse groups feature, there are just to
many. So in order to keep download times and information in a fairly staple mix,
we have to take some groups off of the feature. You can still view it by
performing a newgroup search within the search filter. [my emphasis.] I
hope this answers your question. On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, katie wrote: > Dear Deja
News: > > I and several other people were recently unable to use your
"Browse Groups" feature to locate the newsgroup "alt.cult.maharaji". Apparently
this group is not a part in your hierarchy of usenet groups anymore. Could you
please list the group, OR if you don't want to list it for some reason, could
you let me know why not? > > Thanks very much, > Katie Haering
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at
22:53:31 (EST)
Poster: A pain in your technological behind
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Off subject (Re:
alt.cult.maharaji on Deja News)
Message:
After all of the talk, I
tried to download the last Archive file and I can't because I am running a 32
bit application! (Whatever the hell that means?#@**?)
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at
23:22:29 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: A pain
in Your technological behind
Subject: Re: Off subject (Re:
alt.cult.maharaji on Deja News)
Message:
After all of
the talk, I tried to download the last Archive file and I can't because I am
running a 32 bit application! (Whatever the hell that means?#@**?)
Truthfully, I am pretty clueless about computers and I don't know
whatever the hell that means, either. Webmaster Brian is quite expert with
computers and perhaps can answer your question.
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 06:26:59
(EST)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: A pain in your
technological behind
Subject: Re: Off subject (Re: alt.cult.maharaji
on Deja News)
Message:
After all of the talk, I tried to
download the last Archive file and I can't because I am running a 32 bit
application! (Whatever the hell that means?#@**?) Try it again, and
this time when Netscape pops up a box saying "You have started to download a
file of unknown type", click on Save File. This shouldn't take any
computer expertise to read these. I'll break them out into separate pages that
people can just click on. Gimme a week. Sheeesh...
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 10:05:07
(EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: [email protected]
To: all
Subject: Re: old forum and computer stuff (Re:
alt.cult.maharaji on Deja News)
Message:
Just a few things" 1. I
have the last archive downloaded and unZIPped, if anyone wants a copy of a
particular thread or post and can't/doesn't want to get it themselves. (BTW, it
took me a long time to get this unZIPped, Brian, as I don't have that utility on
Netscape - it's on another program. Plus I didn't know what I was doing.) 2. The
definition of "computer expertise" varies. For people like me, who don't
naturally "get" computers, I highly recommend those "For Dummies" books. Some
are better than others but I recommend PC's for Dummies, The Internet for
Dummies, and even Creating Web Pages for Dummies, which explains a lot about
what it takes to make and maintain pages like the ex-premie page. Make sure you
get the latest editions. (Perhaps CD might want to list them on his book page.)
Katie P.S. Be nice to Brian :)
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 10:14:21
(EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: old forum and computer stuff (Re: alt.cult.maharaji on
Deja News)
Message:
I have designed the "look" of some web pages
for companies, so I know about the graphics, but not the programming and I can
tell you that from what little help I was, it still was a TON of work for the
programmer to make it happen. I wouldn't even want to think about having to
maintain all of this. I'll bet Brian is getting a huge salary for this,
too!(haha) Brian, I/we appreciate all of the work that you do and I promise to
get the Dummies book and to stop taking up the Forum space asking technical
questions. Sheesh...
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 10:17:52
(EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: The little engine who could (Re: alt.cult.maharaji on Deja
News)
Message:
After all of the talk, I tried to
download the last Archive file and I can't because I am running a 32 bit
application! (Whatever the hell that means?#@**?) Try it again, and this time
when Netscape pops up a box saying 'You have started to download a file of
unknown type', click on Save File. This shouldn't take any computer expertise to
read these. I'll break them out into separate pages that people can just click
on. Gimme a week. Sheeesh... Please do not do ANY extra work I my
account. I want to learn how to do all of this and I can do it. (Ithink I
can...I think I can...I think I can...)
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 15:33:44
(EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: old forum and computer stuff (Re: alt.cult.maharaji on
Deja News)
Message:
Dear VP - I do not mind answering basic
questions - like the ones I answered for you below - because it helps me learn
the stuff (assuming that I know it, that it is). Plus I am not as busy as Brian
- I just help him every once in a while, but lack the technical expertise to be
a REAL help to Brian or to answer more involved questions - like the one above.
P.S. (off topic) I used to be a graphic design major (before I had to work in an
ad agency for a while), so I know a little about the graphics too, but not about
the programming (I think that graphic designers NEED to learn web page
programming ASAP, don't you?) BTW, lest you get the wrong impression though -
Brian designed the "look" of this web page by himself (with a little
constructive and non-constructive criticism).
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 11:57:33
(EST)
Poster: John K.
Email: [email protected]
To: Everyone
Subject: History ?
Message:
All
right, so I understand (I think) what happened when M closed the ashrams in '83,
although actually I still have some questions about HOW it was announced. I
really doubt that M would have actually had a meeting for the ashram residents
he was turning back into the world, but who knows, maybe he did. But my real
question today is what happened to the initiators. I have heard that at some
point M changed their role. Did he actually strip all or some of them of their
powers, or were some told to go get a job or all told to get a job, or what? Did
they get private audiences with M when he gave them their new instructions or
was it a blanket message that went out? Does anyone know? And is D. Smith the
only western one still around in a full time role? Thanks!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 13:20:46
(EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: John K.
Subject: Re: History ?
Message:
>All right, so I
understand (I think) what happened when M closed the ashrams in '83,
>although actually I still have some questions about HOW it was announced. I
really >doubt that M would have actually had a meeting for the ashram
residents he was >turning back into the world, but who knows, maybe he did. I
don’t remember of any ashram meeting where M said that we should all leave.
Closing of the ashrams was the national coordinator’s job. They also used some
of the remaining instructors to deal with this. I heard that M said once in a
meeting (in the US, 79 or 1980), very likely with instructors and/or
coordinators that ashrams were not ashrams for him anymore. That’s usually the
way m says things, not addressing them directly, as you all know. What happened
very likely is that these PAM asked him for confirmation, he confirmed, and then
they took ‘responsibility’ of closing the ashrams, given lots of BS explanation
as you know. M never gives details to do that kind of things. He doesn’t care,
and relies on PAM. If something happens that displeases him, he is pissed off
and screams.... >But my real question today is what happened to the
initiators. I have heard that at >some point M changed their role. Did he
actually strip all or some of them of their >powers, or were some told to go
get a job or all told to get a job, or what? Did they get >private audiences
with M when he gave them their new instructions or was it a blanket >message
that went out? He had some meetings with them where he said he was pissed, that
they shouldn’t do anything anymore (and wait for agya, he never says this, but
it’s understood this way). Some got something to do. Many were left, some with
very unclear status. I personally know one of them very well, she doesn’t know
exactly what her status is, and it’s been lasting for more than 15 years. She
obviously likes it, and M plays with her. Love hate relationship. Terrible. He
gave her some ‘important’ international service. Sometimes he refers to her as
an instructor, sometimes not. Sometimes she gets invitation to meetings etc,
sometimes not. I don’t understand her psychology. She has a big problem, that’s
for sure. >Does anyone know? >And is D. Smith the only western one still
around in a full time role? Many of them are still instructors, some clear
status (instructor) Yorum Weisz, David Smith, Padarthanand, Charnanand, Belkis
Shah, Patrick MacCracken, Rody Schmull, Julio Castro, Peter Lee, Peter Dawson,
and some others I don’t remember. some very unclear status, I won’t give their
names, at least a dozen of them. + lots who would like to be instructor again
(masochists?) : I would recommend them to seek for professional help until it’s
too late.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 15:25:26
(EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: History ?
Message:
Mr. Ex: Thanks, I find
this fascinating, maybe because I keep thinking there but for the grace of my
own common sense, go I! Not that I was about to become an initiator, but for
several years it was my great wish. A couple more questions. How many initiators
were there in the west before he let some go? When he told them not to do
anything anymore, did some of them have to start supporting themselves? Like
paying their own rent, buying their own food? Since there were no more ashrams,
where did they live anyway? I am sure it must have been a real shock to be faced
with entering the world of bill paying etc. Re the woman who you say has been
unsure of her status for so many years, does she support herself?
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Date: Fri, Feb 6, 1998 at 10:23:51
(EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: John K.
Subject: Is this really history? (Re: History ? )
Message:
>A couple more questions. How many initiators were
>there in the west before he let some go? It’s a very long story. Maybe
someone should really write that initiators saga one day. There as been 2 time
when m had a lot of initiators/instructors, not speaking about mahatmas, that’s
another saga ! First time : by the end of the 70s, all these initiators/mahatmas
maybe 30 to 50 , I don’t remember. Then he fired most of them, and kept a
minimum around him. Then the 80s : 150 to 200 instructors very likely, most of
them part-time, some full-time. >When he told them not to do anything
anymore, did some of >them have to start supporting themselves? Like
>paying their own rent, buying their own food? That was not very clear. Some
did support themselves, some have never been able or never wanted to, lots of
politics (that could be another saga « Politics in DLM/EV »), some got support
from local EV, some were/are quite wealthy, some live from love and grace, etc.
>Since there were no more ashrams, where did they >live anyway? Some lucky
ones in the US/UK have an apartment, don’t ask me who gave them. Some live by
premies here and there (present situation). >I am sure it must have been a
real shock to be faced >with entering the world of bill paying etc. EV/DLM
helped many of them. Some/many completely freaked out and left. >Re the woman
who you say has been unsure of >her status for so many years, does she
support herself? She has a good job, makes a good living, gets some support from
EV ....
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Date: Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 23:12:58
(EST)
Poster: Dan Crothers
Email: [email protected]
To: Everyone
Subject: help
Message:
can
anyone please help me to connect to Elan Vital or a premie site ? i have been
out of touch for years and just got a computer and came across your site and
recognized some old friends and would like to contact some more that are not
"ex" premies i relalize by the tone that this is an anti Maharaji site but i am
not bummed out about my expieriances i hope this does not freak everyone out and
that someone would still be kind enough to help me i thankyou in advance and
lookforward to your kind assistance ps i have not yet figured out e mail so ill
watch the forum
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Date: Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 23:23:07
(EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Dan Crothers
Subject: Re: help
Message:
can anyone please
help me to connect to Elan Vital or a premie site ? i have been out of touch for
years and just got a computer and came across your site and recognized some old
friends and would like to contact some more that are not 'ex' premies i relalize
by the tone that this is an anti Maharaji site but i am not bummed out about my
expieriances i hope this does not freak everyone out and that someone would
still be kind enough to help me i thankyou in advance and lookforward to your
kind assistance ps i have not yet figured out e mail so ill watch the forum
Hi, Dan. I am new to this, too, but from what I can gather, there
used to be a site at premie.com and it was ordered to be shut down by M. I don't
have any details. Apparently he does not like the fact that this site is here
and does not seem too hip on the internet in general. For a long time I. too.
tried to find out info on Elan Vital and it was just not available. Sorry that I
can't be more help to you. You are right-the thrust of this site is to expose
the negative aspects of M, but almost everyone here is very nice and some
premies do post here from time to time, as well.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 04:03:56
(EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: Dan Crothers
Subject: Re: help
Message:
Dan, 818-889-0500 is the
number for US event info. There should be a few in the US this year.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 18:26:50
(EST)
Poster: annie ex ottawa
Email: [email protected]
To: Dan Crothers
Subject: Re: help help help (Re: help )
Message:
hi Dan...! i just sent you an email before I finished
reading your note. oops. http://members.aol.com/aerily/index.html
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 19:31:16
(EST)
Poster: lucille - ottawa
Email:
To: Dan
Crothers
Subject: Re: help
Message:
can
anyone please help me to connect to Elan Vital or a premie site ? i have been
out of touch for years and just got a computer and came across your site and
recognized some old friends and would like to contact some more that are not
'ex' premies i relalize by the tone that this is an anti Maharaji site but i am
not bummed out about my expieriances i hope this does not freak everyone out and
that someone would still be kind enough to help me i thankyou in advance and
lookforward to your kind assistance ps i have not yet figured out e mail so ill
watch the forum Hi Dan - VP said it all. Remember me, I was
aspirant? It's been a long time!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at
22:24:36 (EST)
Poster: You want help to
Email: bb
To: Dan Crothers
Subject: get INTO quicksand? To get INTO
a lie? (Re: help )
Message:
Hello dan, maharaji is doing two
things these days. One, he is admitting that he is not anything more that the
regular person. Two, He is still very much keeping up the front that he is the
master and the hindu master idea is one where you are supposed to look at the
master as god and serve him and love him and worship him and follow all his
desires. That is traditional hinduism and the problem with that is that they are
standing in the way of god. If you want to have a relationship with god there is
no need of haveing a fake false front guru in your way. the breath is talked
about by jesus and maharaji is trying to graft his importance on to your breath.
He does not believe in god. He thinks like all eastern types do that we are all
god and that there is no concious power that is your friend. So in hinduism any
guy can just set himself up as a front and you can have god in form via him. You
need to worship someone? guru is available. You need to please god? guru will
take your life and tell you to do whatever he likes. he is a fake and a classic
hindu fraud. Stick around, tomorrow I will post a thread called HINDU OF THE
YEAR and you can get the basic hindu picture.
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Date: Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 22:08:08
(EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Forum Reset
Message:
Please pardon me if I
am asking something that everyone else already knows the answer to. The threads
and responses that I had not read used to appear blue when I had not read them
yet and then purple once I had read them. Since the forum reset they are all
purple and I cannot remember what I have read and haven't read. Is this my
computer or did you change something. Thanks!
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Date: Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 23:07:52
(EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Forum Reset
Message:
Please
pardon me if I am asking something that everyone else already knows the answer
to. The threads and responses that I had not read used to appear blue when I had
not read them yet and then purple once I had read them. Since the forum reset
they are all purple and I cannot remember what I have read and haven't read. Is
this my computer or did you change something. Thanks! This is my
fault cause I teased Brian about telling people about it last time. I can only
tell you what to do if you are using Netscape. You have to go to OPTIONS (on
toolbar), then General Preferences, then go to the bottom and hit "expire
links". I have my links set to expire after 9 days, and since the forum usually
gets archived every two weeks, then I don't have to do this. (Doing this will
expire ALL your links all over, btw.)
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Date: Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 23:45:18
(EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Forum Reset
Message:
Thanks, but I don't
want my Forums to expire. Will we have to download archives from now on? Hey,
Brian, don't listen to Katie's teasing-I loved the Blue/Purple thing! ( I'll bet
Brian is about sick of me. I have been unappreciative of his hard work since I
got here-haha!) Katie- thanks for being so helpful and patient to me with this
computer stuff. Didn't you say you were a teacher earlier? It shows.
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Date: Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 23:57:13
(EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: [email protected]
To: VP
Subject: Re: Forum Reset
Message:
Hi
VP - no, I'm not a teacher, but I work with a lot of college students so I often
have to explain stuff to relatively intelligent people (sometimes they are a lot
more patient than I am, too.) Re "expiring your links". It may sound ominous,
but if you press "Expire Now" (in Netscape) but the only thing that will expire
is the COLOR of your links - they'll all turn blue (on the forum, anyway.) So
for example, if you were looking at another site besides the Forum, then all
your visited links there would change back to their original color - I don't
know if this is a drawback to you or not. Actually, I would just try once if I
were you to see if it is what you want. As far as downloading, I can't speak for
The Web Master, but I think probably yes. Those files are huge. I really don't
think you have to worry about viruses, but check with Brian if you want
reassurance (he knows a lot more than me - about computers, that is.) P.S. I
loved your "scared of M" post. I wrote an answer about being scared of pictures
of Jesus when I was a kid, and (even more) crucifixes, and (even more)
GLOW-IN-THE-DARK crucifixes.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 00:45:29
(EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Forum Reset
Message:
Hi VP - no,
I'm not a teacher, but I work with a lot of college students so I often have to
explain stuff to relatively intelligent people (sometimes they are a lot more
patient than I am, too.) Re 'expiring your links'. It may sound ominous, but if
you press 'Expire Now' (in Netscape) but the only thing that will expire is the
COLOR of your links - they'll all turn blue (on the forum, anyway.) So for
example, if you were looking at another site besides the Forum, then all your
visited links there would change back to their original color - I don't know if
this is a drawback to you or not. Actually, I would just try once if I were you
to see if it is what you want. As far as downloading, I can't speak for The Web
Master, but I think probably yes. Those files are huge. I really don't think you
have to worry about viruses, but check with Brian if you want reassurance (he
knows a lot more than me - about computers, that is.) P.S. I loved your 'scared
of M' post. I wrote an answer about being scared of pictures of Jesus when I was
a kid, and (even more) crucifixes, and (even more) GLOW-IN-THE-DARK crucifixes.
Oh, I see what you mean about the colors. I'll try that. Okay, here
I go revealing more about myself, but what the heck. My best friend owns a major
computer company. It is ironic that I don't know anything about computers.
Anyway, he/she says that it is so easy to put a virus onto the text and that no
one here could detect it. To down- load the archive files could ruin your
computer and you wouldn't know what hit you. Hope I'm not giving anyone any
ideas out there, but it is something for us to consider.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 00:57:04
(EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Fear (Re: Forum Reset)
Message:
Hi
VP - no, I'm not a teacher, but I work with a lot of college students so I often
have to explain stuff to relatively intelligent people (sometimes they are a lot
more patient than I am, too.) Re 'expiring your links'. It may sound ominous,
but if you press 'Expire Now' (in Netscape) but the only thing that will expire
is the COLOR of your links - they'll all turn blue (on the forum, anyway.) So
for example, if you were looking at another site besides the Forum, then all
your visited links there would change back to their original color - I don't
know if this is a drawback to you or not. Actually, I would just try once if I
were you to see if it is what you want. As far as downloading, I can't speak for
The Web Master, but I think probably yes. Those files are huge. I really don't
think you have to worry about viruses, but check with Brian if you want
reassurance (he knows a lot more than me - about computers, that is.) P.S. I
loved your 'scared of M' post. I wrote an answer about being scared of pictures
of Jesus when I was a kid, and (even more) crucifixes, and (even more)
GLOW-IN-THE-DARK crucifixes. Oh, I see what you mean about the colors. I'll try
that. Okay, here I go revealing more about myself, but what the heck. My best
friend owns a major computer company. It is ironic that I don't know anything
about computers. Anyway, he/she says that it is so easy to put a virus onto the
text and that no one here could detect it. To down- load the archive files could
ruin your computer and you wouldn't know what hit you. Hope I'm not giving
anyone any ideas out there, but it is something for us to consider.
P.S. I can't believe that I told everyone that I was scared of
pictures of M, but it was the truth! I hate that I missed your post about
crucifixes. Thinking about that, they are terrifying. Especially with Christ on
them and all of the blood and thorns...I have never seen a glow-in-the-dark
crucifix. ( There is a painting by Velasquez where Jesus appears to be glowing
on the cross.)
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 04:34:58
(EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Forum Reset
Message:
Oh, I see what you
mean about the colors. I'll try that. Okay, here I go revealing more about
myself, but what the heck. My best friend owns a major computer company. It is
ironic that I don't know anything about computers. Anyway, he/she says that it
is so easy to put a virus onto the text and that no one here could detect it. To
down- load the archive files could ruin your computer and you wouldn't know what
hit you. Hope I'm not giving anyone any ideas out there, but it is something for
us to consider. I personally think that is most unlikely VP. However if
there is any truth in that it maybe an idea to work towards having a version of
the archives online as well for browsing (as before). Surely if a virus can be
put into the text (as an invisible tag I presume) Brian would first suffer this
infection as he compiles the archive. Thinking about it, if the archives that
Brian are zipping are text files it would be easy to see any extraneous coding
in the text. HTML is the only medium we are involved in where one can include
hidden tags or scripted virus I think.I'll have to take a look to see how
Brian's doing them. I have been forwarded many authorative-sounding emails
warning of horrendous viruses. I have every time found out later that they were
totally insubstantiated or incorrect. I would say that, if you are going to
publicize your friends warning to one and all, you may be well advised to really
check out exactly what he means and whether a virus actually could be encoded
into the zipped archives. Otherwise people really will be scared to download
them and maybe without good reason. Its worth finding out the truth about this
before it gets blown out of proportion or indeed so as we can prevent such a
problem.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 09:47:03
(EST)
Poster: Katie slightly off topic
Email:
[email protected]
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Forum Reset
Message:
Just to add to what Anon said - there is an e-mail going
around the states and possibly the UK now which describes a virus that comes on
an e-mail called "Join the Crew". We've gotten three separate notifications of
the virulence of this virus from friends and family members. BUT according to
several people who know about this stuff and who I trust highly (although Bill
Gates is not MY best friend, VP!) this "warning" is a big fake that goes around
periodically. In a sense it IS a virus because it causes people to send large
amounts of e-mail for no reason (some of our triends sent the message to over a
hundred people.) I have gotten a couole viruses on my computer (it's almost
inevitable when you work at a university), but they all have been merely
annoying AND easily removable. I don't want to minimize things, but, as Anon
says, I don't want people to be scared to death either. What do you think, oh
Wizard of Ex? (I mean you, Brian!) Katie
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 12:50:38
(EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Forum Reset
Message:
Oh, I see
what you mean about the colors. I'll try that. Okay, here I go revealing more
about myself, but what the heck. My best friend owns a major computer company.
It is ironic that I don't know anything about computers. Anyway, he/she says
that it is so easy to put a virus onto the text and that no one here could
detect it. To down- load the archive files could ruin your computer and you
wouldn't know what hit you. Hope I'm not giving anyone any ideas out there, but
it is something for us to consider. I personally think that is most unlikely VP.
However if there is any truth in that it maybe an idea to work towards having a
version of the archives online as well for browsing (as before). Surely if a
virus can be put into the text (as an invisible tag I presume) Brian would first
suffer this infection as he compiles the archive. Thinking about it, if the
archives that Brian are zipping are text files it would be easy to see any
extraneous coding in the text. HTML is the only medium we are involved in where
one can include hidden tags or scripted virus I think.I'll have to take a look
to see how Brian's doing them. I have been forwarded many authorative-sounding
emails warning of horrendous viruses. I have every time found out later that
they were totally insubstantiated or incorrect. I would say that, if you are
going to publicize your friends warning to one and all, you may be well advised
to really check out exactly what he means and whether a virus actually could be
encoded into the zipped archives. Otherwise people really will be scared to
download them and maybe without good reason. Its worth finding out the truth
about this before it gets blown out of proportion or indeed so as we can prevent
such a problem. Anon and Katie- I finally got ahold of my friend at
work. Apparently there are some fake viruses, but he/she said that he/she sees
real ones everyday. They are very nasty and many will-erase all of the info off
of your harddrive. There is some corporate warfare and the techs from his/her
company get called in all of the time to handle this stuff. According to
him/her, there is nothing that they can do in many cases. Anyway to sort of
answer Anon-and I am not very technical, so bear with me as I stumble through
this- even if Brian is checking these files or even if he is running a virus
check program, someone can get in here and load the virus after it is archived
(between Brian and someone downloading it from the archives) Please don't ask me
how, because I don't know, I'm just telling you what a trustworthy source in the
field is saying. On a brighter note, this person made a suggestion that you may
already know and be doing. Apparently there is a site to check for viruses
before you download called MacAphie (I'm not sure about the spelling and someone
correct me if that is the wrong name) It is supposed to be the best for
detecting major viruses, but will still not catch a new one, of course. My
friend has promised to come over here tonight and look at the archive set up and
I will post any insights he has to offer if anyone is interested. P.S. This
person is not BIll Gates but they do know one another...
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 16:24:23
(EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: [email protected]
To: VP
Subject: Re: Forum Reset
Message:
Oh, I see what you mean about the
colors. I'll try that. Okay, here I go revealing more about myself, but what the
heck. My best friend owns a major computer company. It is ironic that I don't
know anything about computers. Anyway, he/she says that it is so easy to put a
virus onto the text and that no one here could detect it. To down- load the
archive files could ruin your computer and you wouldn't know what hit you. Hope
I'm not giving anyone any ideas out there, but it is something for us to
consider. I personally think that is most unlikely VP. However if there is any
truth in that it maybe an idea to work towards having a version of the archives
online as well for browsing (as before). Surely if a virus can be put into the
text (as an invisible tag I presume) Brian would first suffer this infection as
he compiles the archive. Thinking about it, if the archives that Brian are
zipping are text files it would be easy to see any extraneous coding in the
text. HTML is the only medium we are involved in where one can include hidden
tags or scripted virus I think.I'll have to take a look to see how Brian's doing
them. I have been forwarded many authorative-sounding emails warning of
horrendous viruses. I have every time found out later that they were totally
insubstantiated or incorrect. I would say that, if you are going to publicize
your friends warning to one and all, you may be well advised to really check out
exactly what he means and whether a virus actually could be encoded into the
zipped archives. Otherwise people really will be scared to download them and
maybe without good reason. Its worth finding out the truth about this before it
gets blown out of proportion or indeed so as we can prevent such a problem.
Anon and Katie- I finally got ahold of my friend at work. Apparently
there are some fake viruses, but he/she said that he/she sees real ones
everyday. They are very nasty and many will-erase all of the info off of your
harddrive. There is some corporate warfare and the techs from his/her company
get called in all of the time to handle this stuff. According to him/her, there
is nothing that they can do in many cases. Anyway to sort of answer Anon-and I
am not very technical, so bear with me as I stumble through this- even if Brian
is checking these files or even if he is running a virus check program, someone
can get in here and load the virus after it is archived (between Brian and
someone downloading it from the archives) Please don't ask me how, because I
don't know, I'm just telling you what a trustworthy source in the field is
saying. On a brighter note, this person made a suggestion that you may already
know and be doing. Apparently there is a site to check for viruses before you
download called MacAphie (I'm not sure about the spelling and someone correct me
if that is the wrong name) It is supposed to be the best for detecting major
viruses, but will still not catch a new one, of course. My friend has promised
to come over here tonight and look at the archive set up and I will post any
insights he has to offer if anyone is interested. P.S. This person is not BIll
Gates but they do know one another... I'd be really interested in
knowing what your friend has to say (and please thank him for me/us, of course.)
BTW, the virus checker he was referring to is called McAfee. I'm not sure of
their web site address, but we have McAfee VirusScan (a software program) on our
computer. Everyone at work uses McAfee virus software too. I was just kidding
about Bill Gates. You do know the Great Pumpkin, though, right?
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 17:30:11
(EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: M is a pumpkin (Re: Forum Reset)
Message:
Yes,
he's big and round and "golden" and lots of people wait for him to bring
"treats" to them but he never quite delivers and so a lot of them are
disillusioned. Some of them even started a web site...
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 20:41:15
(EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Forum Reset
Message:
Anyway to sort of
answer Anon-and I am not very technical, so bear with me as I stumble through
this- even if Brian is checking these files or even if he is running a virus
check program, someone can get in here and load the virus after it is archived
(between Brian and someone downloading it from the archives) Please don't ask me
how, because I don't know, I'm just telling you what a trustworthy source in the
field is saying. On a brighter note, this person made a suggestion that you may
already know and be doing. Apparently there is a site to check for viruses
before you download called MacAphie (I'm not sure about the spelling and someone
correct me if that is the wrong name) It is supposed to be the best for
detecting major viruses, but will still not catch a new one, of course. My
friend has promised to come over here tonight and look at the archive set up and
I will post any insights he has to offer if anyone is interested. P.S. This
person is not BIll Gates but they do know one another... Thanks VP. I use virus
protection software on my computer . I will be interested to hear what your
friend says though.
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Date: Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 20:41:03
(EST)
Poster: StephenB
Email: [email protected]
To: Everyone
Subject: Chat Room Proposal
Message:
I would like to propose a time and site for an online
real-time interactive chat session. This can be done by logging onto a
server...I propose US Undernet. For those of you who do not know how to access
chat I would be glad to post instructions if requested. for the sake of
simplicity...how about Monday Nights 7:00 MST (5:00 EST) This would give great
support real time to those who may need it most...recent escapees :) Please give
feedback on time and Place StephenB [email protected]
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Date: Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 22:01:22
(EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: StephenB
Subject: Re: Chat Room Proposal
Message:
I
would like to propose a time and site for an online real-time interactive chat
session. This can be done by logging onto a server...I propose US Undernet. For
those of you who do not know how to access chat I would be glad to post
instructions if requested. for the sake of simplicity...how about Monday Nights
7:00 MST (5:00 EST) This would give great support real time to those who may
need it most...recent escapees :) Please give feedback on time and Place
StephenB [email protected] Stephen B- I would be up for this, but I
am new to this whole internet world and would need some instructions. Thanks, VP
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at 00:00:37
(EST)
Poster: StephenB
Email: [email protected]
To: ALL INTERESTED
Subject: Chat Room:
InstructionsProposal (Re: Chat Room Proposal)
Message:
I
would like to propose a time and site for an online real-time interactive chat
session. This can be done by logging onto a server...I propose US Undernet. For
those of you who do not know how to access chat I would be glad to post
instructions if requested. for the sake of simplicity...how about Monday Nights
7:00 MST (5:00 EST) This would give great support real time to those who may
need it most...recent escapees :) Please give feedback on time and Place
StephenB [email protected] The first thing you need to chat on these
channels is a "chat client" I recommend mIRC16 or mIRC32. These can be
downloaded for free at http://www.mirc.com This is a seperate program that will
have a diffenert icon on your screen when finished with the install. It is not a
plug-in to a browser. Download the file, then instal it on your computer. The
steps to run are: 1. connect to your internet service provider 2. Open the mirc
chat program to a screen called mirc setup (it should open automaticlly) 3.
Select Ramdom US Undernet Server (again should be default) 4. Type in a name,
email address and nickname 5. click connect 6. when connected you will see
limited instruction on how to use program. 7. type /join #ex-premie in the block
with the blinking cursur, if you are the first you will create the room if you
are after you will join the chat in progress, all participants are then listed
and you will see:) 8. if having trouble joining the room, type /list and the
program will display all rooms....but beware there are thousands (and some are
unsavory) Mail if you still need help! StephenB
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at
22:24:45 (EST)
Poster: Joy
Email:
To: StephenB
Subject: Re: Chat Room: InstructionsProposal (Re: Chat Room Proposal)
Message:
I can't help it, but the idea of a chat room still
reminds me of the "chit chat" we weren't supposed to engage in! (As if this site
didn't qualify!). Remember, we were only supposed to speak satsang? And always
remember Holy Name, to keep our minds from thinking. Doesn't mean I wouldn't
want to see a chat room, just the association seems so strange, given the
context. Chitter-chatter away, all!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at
22:24:55 (EST)
Poster: Joy
Email:
To: StephenB
Subject: Re: Chat Room: InstructionsProposal (Re: Chat Room Proposal)
Message:
I can't help it, but the idea of a chat room still
reminds me of the "chit chat" we weren't supposed to engage in! (As if this site
didn't qualify!). Remember, we were only supposed to speak satsang? And always
remember Holy Name, to keep our minds from thinking. Doesn't mean I wouldn't
want to see a chat room, just the association seems so strange, given the
context. Chitter-chatter away, all!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 5, 1998 at
22:26:06 (EST)
Poster: Joy
Email:
To: Joy
Subject: Re: Chat Room: InstructionsProposal (Re: Chat Room Proposal)
Message:
Sorry about the double post, sometimes I'm
technologically inept.
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