Thursday September 3, 1998 17 Messages ======================================== From: WORKPARK@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 04:15:42 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Feline Pine Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Gabby & Jim, Gabby, I'm glad you had a good experience with the Feline Pine. I tried a bag of it once, and unfortunately, I can't give it the same report you did. My cats hated it, and even when I mixed it with the clumping litter, didn't like it at all. They stopped using the litter box. When they did use it, it would not dry out, and there was an odor. Strange, since the climate here is dry, but it didn't work for me. My cats would also kick it out of the box, and it hurts a lot more to step on then the Swheat Scoop. My mother's house is a single cat household, and she liked it. She also likes Harmony, another brand that is similar. When I was cat-sitting for her, I didn't like that stuff either, it had a very strong odor. I guess that each household is different, and to each his own - whatever works! Pam ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 23:32:03 -0500 From: Gabriela Mendez Perez Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services To: "felvtalk@MailingList.net" Subject: Re: Feline Pine Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net James and all-- Feline Pine is actually these little pellets, or tiny cylindrical pieces, of compressed pine that's supposedly been treated so that the pine isn't toxic to cats. It absorbs moisture and when it does that, it puffs out and becomes sawdust. I'm no expert on why this is the case, but the sawdust dries VERY quickly. You scoop out the solid waste daily (or 2X daily, as I do), and also shake the box gently sideways to sift the sawdust down to the bottom of the box. When the box is mostly sawdust, you just toss all the pine litter and refill the box. I usually put about 1" of the Feline Pine in there, and the box will stay fairly clean (as long as I'm scooping religiously) for over a week. I use two boxes, so for me (with 6 cats), that's quite a difference from the Tidy Cat non-clumping stuff I used. With the Tidy Cat, I'd have to toss all the litter in about 2 days. With the Feline Pine, I never have litterbox odor. The urine odor is gone completely, and all I smell when I pass that area of the house is a light pine scent. Like I said, the kitties took a few days and some major howling sessions to get used to it. I had to backtrack and fill the boxes with 1/2 Tidy Cat and 1/2 Feline Pine to a depth of 2 inches or so before they'd use it. Then, once they got used to it, I used less than 1/2 Tidy Cat, and now they all use the boxes with only Feline Pine in them. In terms of price, well, the Feline Pine is (on the surface, at least) more expensive. A large bag of Feline Pine is $9 (smaller bags sell for about $3.50), compared to $4 for the Tidy Cat, for roughly the same pounds. BUT, the Feline Pine lasts me longer (the label on the bag says it lasts as long as 60 pounds of litter, and I think that's pretty spot on in my household, and it may last even longer than that for us), and it is such a relief to not have all that odor and mess. When I dump the sawdust, there is usually no moisture at all at the bottom of the box, which has meant I've stopped using all the liners I used to use. I've never had my cats try to lick the litterbox, so I don't know what to tell you about that. On the Holisticat List, someone mentioned that they'd asked a Feline Pine rep about the toxicity of the FP product, and s/he said that the wood has been treated so that it does not contain the toxic element any longer. I cannot vouch for that, I'm afraid. I don't have direct knowledge of whether that's accurate or not. But I've gotta say that if I maintain the box as I should, the kitties are mostly standing on the solid pellets, not on the sawdust (did I mention that my cats don't seem to dig as much with this litter?), so it's unlikely that they're tracking the sawdust out and licking it off their own paws later. Still, that would be a consideration. I've looked into the Swheat Scoop, and although I like the idea of it, and the concept of a clumping litter that isn't clay-based, I don't think I could afford to switch to that. One bag (about half the weight of the Feline Pine, if I remember correctly) costs more than the Feline Pine, and is much smaller/lighter, and I know from experience that the clumping litters get used up much more quickly in my household, so I'd go broke trying to use that product. I regret that, because I have heard many positive things about it. On the Holisticat List, there are many members who use Swheat Scoop regularly and could give you more info on it. Ditto for the Feline Pine. I'm a newbie when it comes to non-clay litters, actually. I wanted to try the Yesterday's News brand of litter, which is made from recycled paper, but I didn't get the impression from what I read on the bag that it would be as user-friendly for a multi-cat household like mine. I could be totally off-base, so anyone who knows about this litter, please feel free to enlighten me. Well, I hope that helps someone, somewhere! :-) If anyone has questions that I can answer based strictly on my own experience, I'll be glad to do that. Also, I'll grab the bag tomorrow morning and bring it over to the 'puter so that I can maybe tell you all what the bag says. Gabby and los gatos fregados ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 23:37:46 -0500 From: Gabriela Mendez Perez Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services To: "felvtalk@MailingList.net" Subject: Re: Oops--here's the website Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net James and all-- I'm sorry I forgot to include this in the last email I sent about Feline Pine: http://www.felinepine.com Gabby and los gatos fregados ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:43:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Kat To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Sore Mouth Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Kathy, Also, she can ask her vet for some Hill's prescription cat food A/D. Most cats really like it and it is very soft and very easy to make into a 'soup' by mixing with a little water. Kat (New Jersey) ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:07:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Kat To: "'felvtalk@mailinglist.net'" Subject: Re: Ninja Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, Try these against the cancer: (you can get then at any health food store) Essiac Tea, Pau D'Arco, Cat's Claw, or Chaparral. I had used a combination of these plus echinacea/goldenseal capsules (which I opened up and mixed into food) when my "little Bit" had a tumor in her sinus cavity. It helped her last considerably longer than the vet thought she would, and they may just help Ninja recover enough to beat it. Kat (New Jersey) ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:39:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Kat To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Interferon Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi James, How many sources are there for the Interferon?? If there are other sources, maybe we should be promoting someone else's lab more 'people oriented' and friendlier than Lee Bio.?? Afterall, we have been known to call up the source and ask alot of questions... Just a thought. Kat (New Jersey) ---------------------------------------- From: "James G. Wilson" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:06:59 +0000 Subject: Re: Interferon Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Kat, Yes, there are many sources out there. I just happened on Lee Bio. first. Island Pharmacies is who we recommend most directly because they are "people oriented", and they pre-mix the Interferon to our specifications and ship directly to the vet. Since Interferon is carried by most local pharmacies, vets could order it directly from them, and either mix it themselves or have the pharmacist do it for them. In any event, Lee Bio. is really a non-issue- I was just wondering folks agreed that I should remove them from our FeLV project page. I hope this answers your questions. Take care, and best wishes to all. In loving memory of Vyvyan: March 20, 1988 - August 15, 1997 James G. Wilson- phaedrus@npwt.net http://www.angelfire.com/il/felv/ http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/8025/ http://thor.prohosting.com/felvinfo/ http://www.fortunecity.com//skyscraper/sterling/20/niu.html ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 10:09:15 -0500 From: Gabriela Mendez Perez Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services To: "felvtalk@MailingList.net" Subject: Re: Feline Pine Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi, again-- Yes, Pam, I must admit that when I had the Feline Pine mixed with the regular litter, it did not dry out as it's supposed to, and it was the oddest looking mess in the litterbox, too! :-) But once I switched over to only Feline Pine, the moisture problem did disappear in my household. I have heard, however, stories of frustration from other catmom's, so who knows. I have a good friend who uses only clumping litter for her three cats, and when I catsat for her, I had to clean out the box at least once a day, but it was fairly simple. In my house, the clumping stuff just got tossed out the window in one day because I'd be scooping and pouring every hour, on the hour, to keep the boxes clean! (Not to mention that I was spending a fortune, what with 6 cats who are as "regular" as can be, for the most part.) LOL! And yes, definitely, stepping on one of those little pellets can definitely hurt. I was really fortunate my cats didn't toss those pellets out of the litterbox! Oh, I was going to mention a trick my vet told me about. Many of you may already be using it, but I just thought I'd toss it into the communal idea pot for anyone who's interested. I was worried about the kitties eventually licking the litter off their paws, which can cause health problems later on, and he suggested that I take a little fake grass doormat and put it right at the exit from the litterbox (mine are those that have a cover). That way, the litter that comes out on their paws might stand a chance of falling off and getting trapped in the grass, which I shake out every day. I did get some weird looks from the gatos fregados at first, but overall, they just pretended to ignore it and went about their business. On the Holisticat List, a couple of months back, there was a lively discussion of different litters, and several others were mentioned that might prove interesting. I will check and see if there are archives we can look into. I do remember that Swheat Scoop was very favorably reviewed, although there were people who'd tried it and not liked it for one reason or another. I think, as you do, that each household is different, so I suppose the best we can do is just share information. Gabby and los gatos fregados ---------------------------------------- From: "Donna Carillo" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:12:06 -0500 Subject: Re: another non-clay litter Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hello all, I have another non-clay litter that I think can be used. I used it for my ferett because it is dust free and 100 % biodegradable. It's call Luv My Kitty Kat Litter.....safe for the earth,made of recycled wood products,and its scoop n flush...15lbs=45lbs of clay litter(so they say)...has no chemicals. As I have been using this w/ my new FeLV+'s and it seems to be fine. I do have to mix in some baking soda because sometimes it just doesn't cut the smell by itself. I usually find it in some Petsmarts or some Publix food stores have it. I have gotten the address and phone number off the bag in case anyone would like it. Gimborn US(manufacturer) 4280 Northeast Expressway Atlanta Ga. 30340 800-755-7056. I am lucky it is here in Atlanta; however, I am sure if it is not other places in the states they may be able to ship it to you. It's worth a call. I can not remember how much I paid for it, but it does last a while...I want to say like 6 or 7 dollars for 15 lbs.??? Donna C ---------------------------------------- From: "George & Nancy" To: "Felv" Subject: NINJA Date sent: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:23:07 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net BARB, NINJA SOUNDS LIKE SHE IS ON THE ROAD TO RECOVERY. HANG IN THERE! I'M SENDING NINJA HEALING VIBES AND PRAYERS! NAN ---------------------------------------- From: "zimmerman" To: "felvtalk" Subject: Non-clay litter options Date sent: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:39:38 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Here's some more info for those interested in non-clay litters Swheat Scoop - wheat/grains 1-800-SWEATS http://swheatscoop.com Dr. Kenaf's - plant fibers 1-888-536-2323 www.amazingcatlitter.com www.DrKenaf.com. CatWorks - grain by-product 1-800-242-2287 absorbs@absorption-corp.com Wheat Litter - wheat 1-800-437-4780 http://rrnet.com/~hpi/ Cat Country - grass fiber pellets 1-800-752-8864 Yesterday's News - newspaper 1-800-267-5287 http://www.yesterdaysnews.canbrands.com Little Tigers - pine wood pellets 1-770-919-9150 Feline Pine - wood pellets 1-800-749-PINE www.felinepine.com Gentle Touch - wood and bark 1-402-371-3311 available in KV Vet catalog Clump "N Flush - corncobs The Andersons More products and info at: www.sonic.net/~marina/articles/natural.html www.sonic.net/~marina/aricles/altern8.html Since my cats aren't anemic I prefer Tidy Cat scoop, but I might try some Clump "N Flush if it's easily available. The scoopable litters are much less dusty now than when they first came out and I prefer them because I don't like my cats scratching in wet litter. Beth ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 17:21:22 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Angela Holderby Subject: Poncho & Jodi Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hey all: I took my girls to the vet today. I knew Jodi had worms and was due for her felv and rabies shots. I also was worried about Jodi's ears. She was treated last year at least 6 times for recurrent ear mites...I have her health records from the time she was taken from the rescue shelter. I knew she had lost weight recently, but I was surprised at how much. She is down to 9 1/2 lbs.....and that is what Poncho weighs too. A gain for Poncho, but a loss for Jodi. I knew she refused to eat when I went camping, but didn't know why. Now you have to understand that I do not poke and prod around on Jodi. She has had a very rough life and she doesn't like to be messed with...that is why I pay Dr. Snider. Well, she got vicious at the ear cleaning and then she got real upset with the worm pills. (I am REAL glad I don't have to do that every day...she would be a nightmare to medicate all the time.) Then, when she checked her mouth I about fell over. She has a missing canine tooth and her gums looked nasty around some of her teeth. She said that gingivitis is common among older cats (she is only 3!) and that she would give me Clavamox to help clear that up...as well as the ear infections she has. It seems that she doesn't have mites at all, but rather a nasty infection. I think the gingivitis is what has caused the weight loss. As for Poncho, her weight is up and she is a tiny bit anemic, but I think the Pet tinic and Ambrotose may help her back to where she was. Her energy level is great and she looks fantastic other than the slightly pale gums...and they aren't really that bad. The whole visit cost almost $100.00 so I couldn't afford a lot of blood work. I am going to keep Poncho on the Pet tinic, Ambrotose and Interferon (7 on and 7 off). Hopefully, that will take care of her for awhile. I just hope this was a minor setback and she will get back to her old pink gummed self very soon. I am just not ready to go through the Lefty ordeal again. My heart is only now starting to heal from that one. I am interested in the DMG. I have only read a little in passing but it sounds like something I may want to add. If anybody has experience with it in combination with the other things I am doing for her, please write and tell me what you recommend. These vets are watching me very carefully to see what I am doing and how Poncho is doing. They are very interested and I want to be able to show them wonderful results. They are beginning to encourage others to not put their cats down upon diagnosis of felv. Unfortunately, cost is a big factor around here...many people cannot afford to go to extensive means to keep their cats alive. Just wanted to share the report. If anybody has any suggestions, please fire them at me. I am always willing to try something else. Angela (and Poncho & Jodi) ---------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:53:48 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Poncho & Jodi Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Angela I am glad that Poncho is feeling better. Gingivitis, poor Jodi. Was that existing from the time you got her? I am not familiar about DMG at all. We did the chemo route with Rubin along with Predisone, and a combination of antibiotics. WE are sending good thoughts and vibes your way. Gina ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:48:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: "'felvtalk@mailinglist.net'" Subject: Re: Ninja Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, I'm glad Ninja's taken a turn for the better! Nancy ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:24:50 -0700 (PDT) From: diana@wetware.com (CatWoman ) To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: To Arlene (was Re: Ninja Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Arlene - I sincerely hope that you were really apologising to yourself, and that you would never feel that you have to apologise to *anyone* on this list for feeling emotional about your cat - whether the cat is alive or not. This list is for folks with cats; more, for folks who are willing to go that extra mile for their cats. I think being emotional about them comes with the territory. In fact, one of the reasons I will stay on this list - even if I never have another FeLV+ cat in my life - is because the people here are as dedicated and emotional about their cats as I am. On other lists I find people who do feel as passionately, but there are those who do not as well. This is a list where everyone is passionate about their cat. (Now that I've said the same thing about 3 times, I'll stop) Diana ---------------------------------------- From: "Moermond, Barbara" To: "'felvtalk@MailingList.net'" Subject: RE: To Arlene (was Re: Ninja Date sent: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:16:32 -0500 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Arlene, No apologies are necessary!! The best thing about this list, is that I've finally found other people who love their kitties as deeply as I do. Diana said it, we're passionate about our fur-babies. I give thanks every day, lately several times a day!, that we have all been lucky enough to find each other and have been able to build such a strong support network for each other. I'm dreading the day when Ninja is gone; she's my only baby and the apartment is going to be empty without her. I'm sure I'll forget and look for her too. I think that's normal. I'm trying to give her as much love as I can (while I can) and she's so picky about her personal space (my little feminist). I was rubbing her tummy and armpits this morning and when she'd had enough, she removed my hand from her little person with her feet:-). That's my girl. I spoke with a vet who does acupuncture earlier today, and she termed Ninja's case a '5 alarm fire'. Really. (just a hint of sarcasm here:-)). She was pretty cool though and referred me to yet another vet who does homeopathy. Still waiting for his call. well, I'm going to get home to my baby. I'll keep y'all posted. Keep the good vibes and prayers comin' our way!!!! Barb+Ninja ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 17:48:00 -0700 From: Robert Frank Organization: A.R.F., Inc. To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Ninja Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Dear Barb: This is so hard to write. I ask your forgiveness in advance for being emotional still about my Howling Kitty. First of all, I would like to thank each and everyone of you for all your good vibes and caring when my HK was ill and dying. It still does not seem possible that he is gone. Many times each day I find myself calling out his name or turning to look for him. Somehow the world just does not seem to be as bright or as much fun anymore. I am going to always love him and miss him. I have to accept that. I try to find comfort in the fact that he is with all the little bridge kitties that have gone before him and is not lonely or in pain. He had advanced lymphosarcoma in addition to the FeLv. I try to rationalize that he is not suffering. As a frail human though, I wish I had him longer. I'm heartened to know that Ninja has such a human to love him and care for him. Cherish each day with him because one day he'll leave you. All the kitties on this list have been blessed with kind souls who have taken them into their homes and their hearts. Thanks to all the wonderful friends on this list that allowed Howling Kitty and I into their good thoughts and prayers. My hopes are with you and Ninja. God Bless you both and peace be with you. Arlene ---------------------------------------- END