Friday August 14, 1998 Part 4 20 Messages ======================================== Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:30:37 -0700 From: Cary Zeitlin Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Research, etc. Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Steve Lackow wrote: > > Cary, your prior posts didn't make it clear -- or I missed it -- that you > did the biopsy on Molly and it was negative. I'm so happy! Maybe it really > is an FeLV masquerader. That's what I thought with Chloe. Until the > biopsy. We're certainly hoping it is a masquerader. And she seems to be making a turnaround, though I wonder how much of it is due to dexamethasone and how much is really her getting better on her own. Her rebound coincided exactly with starting the dex. > And you could not be more correct about the downside of accelerated > information. Especially e-mail and posts, people fire away without > even thinking. But don't you agree that we can short-circuit the > development process in this manner? I agree that we can. Whether it's wise to do so is a harder question, because when we jump the process ahead w/o clinical trials, we may be setting ourselves up with false hope, spending lots of money for things that don't work, and putting kitties through pointless treatments. OTOH, lives may be saved by deciding not to wait. There are valid arguments to be made on either side. Cary ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:24:52 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Smoke The Peace Pipe Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Steve, I read the study you refer to "autologous lymph node lymphocytes" or one very similar and the cat was injected with lymph cells from a cat that had been exposed and didn't come down with the disease or a cat that had fought it off. I'm not sure how you could get felv free cells from an infected cat's own lymph system and removing the virus is virtually impossible since it buries itself in the RNA. I believe it had mixed results that were mostly nonconclusive with some cats having no response at all, to maybe 3 or 4 of 10 responding well for a short period. I will try and remember where I saw it and go back to it. I have had the idea of finding such a cat, that had fought off the disease and taking blood from that cat, spinning it down and infusing the serum into the infected cat. However, finding a cat you are sure successfully fought off the disease is the hard part. This is the exact method used to increase the survival rate of victims of the ebola virus in Africa. One consideration when involved in clinical trials. they always have a blind study. that is, half will actually get the treatment, and half will get a placebo. You do not know which it is. No other treatments are allowed while in the study. If someone is willing to run the risk of getting the placebo and abandoning all other treatments, as well as being in a trial study of a drug where side effects are fairly unknown, that is up to them. Remember, a trial study is just that. They aren't sure what is going to happen, that's why they are doing it. Also, you would probably have to be near a large University, since much of the studies are done there. You would have to bring your cat in frequently for blood work and examinations. The good side is, it is usually free. If you can find and get into such a study, you might get lucky and be on the cusp of a cure. There is just no way of knowing. It is a risk, but those who would wish to try it, that is certainly an option for them if they know and completely realize what it involves. barb ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:29:54 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Smoke The Peace Pipe Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Cary, Most vets just don't have the lab facilities for this type of thing. Nor are they in the research phase. Vets going into reseach take further studies, genetics etc. I must have read a different study, based on the same idea. You also must realize the size of the patient you are working with. Getting lymph tissue from such a small animal can be dangerous if you aren't used to doing such things. Then there's the proper preservatives and cultures. Maybe at at University, the average vet, even a good one would be wise to be hesitant. barb ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:31:12 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Research, etc. Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Cheri, My thoughts are with you. I'm so sorry for your loss. Please drop a line now and then and let us know how you are doing. barb ---------------------------------------- From: "George & Nancy" To: Subject: Re: Research, etc. Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:33:33 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Cheri, My heart goes out to you. Nan ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:33:28 -0700 From: Cary Zeitlin Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Weekly blood work Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Well, Steve is right to say that kitties with anemia, weakened immune systems, etc., should be rid of their fleas. The vets claim Advantage can't make kitties sick and that there's a large safety factor built in to the dosing. So I tend to think Tut's getting sick the day after is a coincidence, but you never know... Cary ---------------------------------------- From: "Lynn or Josiah Stickels" To: "felvtalk" Subject: maitri Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:40:32 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Steve, If you are so unhappy with our list, why don't you just leave again. I, personally don't like your insults to Jim and the rest of the list. Be sure to publish them also. Go back to your own list!..........................Lynn(Stinker) ---------------------------------------- From: "Cheri Gardiner" To: Subject: Re: Tut - decision time Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:40:28 -0600 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Nan, I know too well how you feel. Kitty was a stray that roamed the mountain we lived on in Colorado. We finally managed to coax her into the house when it got extremely cold. For a while, she wouldn't let us near her. then one day, she decided it was her house. That was three years ago. I had three wonderful years with her. She was my companion and friend. It will be strange not to have her around, but she no longer suffers. I took plenty of pictures of her. And she will always be in my heart. In her memory I will probably take in another little one in need of help. There are so many of them and so few of us who care. Cheri G. and the three fur balls. ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:50:20 +0000 From: LawBet Subject: Re: Research, etc. To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Organization: Home for Wayward Felines Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Cheri, Sleep soft, dear Kitty The Lurker ---------------------------------------- From: "Steve Lackow" To: Subject: Re: Smoke The Peace Pipe Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:59:36 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net You asked. You tried. Let's ask. Let's try. -- steve ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:58:27 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Kitty Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Cheri, One with so much love to give. Find that starving baby and in it's eyes, you will see Kitty live again. barb ---------------------------------------- From: "Claude Horstmann" To: Subject: In Memorium.. Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:46:39 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Dear Cheri, Each animal that we welcome into our lives blesses us in ways that only the passage of time can validate.. I am truly sorry for your loss, I'm sorry you will be leaving the list-- peace & light, .marilyn. ---------------------------------------- From: "Steve Lackow" To: Subject: Re: maitri Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:09:05 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net How nice, and how constructive. Personally I'm very happy to see you are still here and that Stinker is. FYI I don't mean to insult Jim. I mean to get him up off his butt. And that goes for a lot more than FeLV talk. -- Steve ---------------------------------------- From: CatzNStuff@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:14:14 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Stressful Visits Better Be Worth It Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, The results of recent clinical trials will be published in the next issue of Journal of American Nutraceutical Association. These have been conducted by Dr. Darryl See, an international authority on Immunology who has published several journal articles and pioneered the use of artificial intelligence and computer programs in the treatment of AIDS. The ANA has now formed an alliance with the AMA, and all articles will be presented in symposiums to members of the AMA. Hopefully, the use of glyconutrients will soon become "standard care" in the allopathic medical profession. If you would like a copy when JANA is released please let me know. That goes for everyone else on the list, too. I already have seen the results of the clinical trials, but cannot divulge the information to people outside of Mannatech until I have the journal articles. Linda P ---------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:22:10 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Tut - decision time Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Nan, When our Rubin got very very ill, we too decided no more meds, his last few weeks where spent medication free. He hated his pills so much, so that is why we decided to let him live out the rest of his days in peace. He evenutally grew so weak that we had to take him to the vets for that very last time. His passing was so peaceful and painless, he looked so peaceful lying there. He too was a stray in a sense, he was abanoned by his mother and we found him behind the gas tanks in our yard. He had to bottle fed. I feel that the strays need people like us, even if it is for such a short time. At least they know they where loved, and there are not enough of us to be out there to rescue them. My prayers go out to you and your family and to Tut. I know how you are feeling Gina ---------------------------------------- From: CatzNStuff@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:22:32 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: maitri Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, If you want Baypamum you can bring it into the US for your personal use. There are many people coming into the US from Europe that are willing to bring it across the pond. I posted a note on a German website, and have had 3 offers to bring it to the US for me. Linda P ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:25:21 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Baypamun Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net how do they get it past customs? barb ---------------------------------------- From: CatzNStuff@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:27:39 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Advantage Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Nan, My guess is it's the Advantage. Read the "Cautions" on the label or on the brochure in the box. If that stuff can float around in a cat's bloodstream for a month killing fleas, and damaging the fleas' reproductive systems so they can't reproduce, what do you think it must be doing to the cat's blood? Linda P ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:28:53 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: mannatech Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Linda, I would love to read the information the minute you can send it. barb ---------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:28:07 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Valium Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Sonja I am still trying to catch up on my postings. Yes, we waited a week, I guess I am a very patient person. Rubin was on Valium for at least a year or so, and he responded really well to it. It was also given to him for his stress. He gained all the weight he had lost, he got back up to 18 pounds from 9 in less than a year. He was much younger then and was able to fight this disease better than this past go around. Gina ---------------------------------------- END