Friday August 14, 1998 Part 3 20 Messages ======================================== From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:41:27 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: George Update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Susan, I bet your vet was smiling to himself, no matter what, "I don't want to get her hopes up attitude" he gave you. Great news. We need some right now. barb ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:42:13 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Ninja - long Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, Keeping all fingers and toes crossed. Let us know the second you do! barb ---------------------------------------- From: "Moermond, Barbara" To: "'felvtalk@mailinglist.net'" Subject: let's nip this in the bud Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:37:13 -0500 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Everyone, After recent problems we've had going extremely off-topic and w/remarks getting too personal (esp. the negative ones). Can we just remember that we're all here for the same reason? We love our kitties and want to help them. But, this means different things to different people. Some prefer a more holistic method and others prefer Western medicine. As pet owners, we are completely responsible for their well-being. And the decisions we make in how to treat - or even IF to treat - are individual to our beliefs and financial capability and awareness of our kitties' comfort levels. Each kitty is different and each of us is different. A promising study is great, but if the results can't be reproduced in another lab.......... It's good to know in the long run, but it doesn't help us much with what we can do TODAY for our kitties. Because we are all individuals, we have to respect each other's choices, even if they're choices WE wouldn't have made. It IS possible to agree to disagree on subjects and still manage to be civil to one another. (now stepping off the soap-box!) Barb+Ninja ---------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:27:51 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: let's nip this in the bud Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi All I agree entirely with what Barb has said. We went to great extremes for our Rubin to keep him alive. And it was well worth every nickel dime and Time we did. Now our Sophia, she is much different than Rubin, more delicate, easliy gets car sick, So I cannot say for certain exactly what her course of treament would be I will cross that bridge when the time comes. The point is is that yes each of our kitties are different as well as each one of us. Gina ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:10:36 -0500 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Melanie Moore Subject: Re: Maxwell and his eyes Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Thanks for the information! I'll try to find this. Appreciate all your efforts in digging up information for Max. Melanie ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:15:37 -0500 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Melanie Moore Subject: Re: Maxwell and his eyes Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Thanks! It does make me feel a bit better. I just realized today that Max' eye problems have gone on for about 8 months now, and will probably be a continuous thing; however, the ulcer problem started a couple months ago. It's nice to know that if we can get this ulcer healed, there's a good chance the tissue will regenerate and not cause permanent problems or loss of vision. He doesn't seem to have vision problems at this point, other than when one of his eyes is acutely inflamed. Already after two days of being back on the antibiotic, his eye is no longer squinting, inflamed, and red. Melanie ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:21:42 -0500 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Melanie Moore Subject: Re: Maxwell and his eyes Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Wow! Thanks for all this information! I definitely think I'll pursue the herbal eye wash solution since he has continuing intermittent inflammation/swelling problems, and will look into the rest of this, too. Melanie ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:24:55 -0500 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Melanie Moore Subject: Re: Maxwell and his eyes Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I'll check into this. Thanks. Melanie ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:49:51 -0400 From: Kathy Giddings To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: George Update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Susan, Lots and lots of healing thoughts are on their way for Georgie!!! You're doing great. Hugs to you both, Kathy G and the 3 Furries in Daytona Beach =^.^= - Rusty =^.^= - Smokey =^.^= - Money See us at: http://cgi.gambitsys.com/homey/webdoc5.htm The Cat: Mother Nature's Masterpiece! ---------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:11:18 -0600 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Thanks, everyone! George is a fortunate little boy to have so many wonderful people pulling for him--and I'm lucky too. Gabby, I feel like a knucklehead. Here I am copying homeopathic info off for Melanie, and I didn't even think to try it for George. I do have Pitcairn's book. I'm going to give it a try as he still has the sniffles. I haven't tried homeopathic stuff on the kits, but I know some things can cause it to antidote. I hope the Ginseng doesn't mess it up. Thanks for telling me about your experience. Hugs to all, Susan katseven@pcsia.com ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:17:54 -0700 From: Cary Zeitlin Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Research, etc. Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Steve, I 100% agree that we can and should provide info for our vets that they may not have. And the Internet is indeed a wonderful tool to enable us in that pursuit; likewise Medline, which I have used a few times looking for FeLV/FIV info. I would just put up a caution flag. The flip side of fast information exchange is a tendency to want to skip over the time-consuming necessity of clinical trials. It is particularly tempting for those of us with acutely ill babies to want to plunge into a treatment w/o waiting for the science to be done. > Cary, I've read the list archives, and your cat sounds just like my Chloe. > All FeLV tests negative, but seems like FeLV. For Chloe, it was the bone > marrow biopsy that showed the virus. Molly's bone marrow biopsy came back negative, too. She is truly the mystery cat. And now she seems to be (crossing my fingers) the recovering mystery cat. >We lost (kind of, I really got a lot out of the experience!). I want >you, and all, to >win. And I will get way out on the tip of the long >board in a cyclone if I have to. Amen. Cary ---------------------------------------- From: "George & Nancy" To: Subject: Re: Weekly blood work Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:22:13 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net All, I used advantage on Tut for the fleas. He started to get sick the very next day and has not gotten better. I don't know if it was a coincidance or if the advantage made him sick. Nan ---------------------------------------- From: "George & Nancy" To: "Felv" Subject: Ninja Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:40:52 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, I have seen something called "cat lax" at the vets. It is a cat laxitive. Just incase Ninja get backed up again. Nan ---------------------------------------- From: "Steve Lackow" To: Subject: Smoke The Peace Pipe Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:43:57 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, it's a way to get into the clinical trial. That's how you get access to the drugs. You get the cat into the trial, not the drugs out of the trial. Prima facie, that's how it works. What would happen if a vet had a success, got jazzed and then wanted to treat 20 cats, I don't know. But I'm going to look into it much more, so I can learn more about how people have bridged the doctor-clinic gap. And there are other ways to "free the cure from the clinicians". The adoptive immunotherapy involving "autologous lymph node lymphocytes" simply refers to injecting kitty with her own lymph cells -- minus the virus -- just once. Sixteen cats in the trial received the infusions. All tolerated it well. Nine of sixteen improved in weight, appearance and/or activity after 2-4 weeks which lasted 13 or more months. And, FeLV was undetectable in 4 cats. Looking at this particular experiment, I bet it would not be that difficult for a skilled vet to replicate. No new drugs, no FDA, no matter how you spin it or who does the spinning. I wish I could get you more interested in all of this. As far as I am concerned, I find it easy to forgive you or Jim any transgressions, real or perceived. And, I expect the same in return. War is hell, and you need your buddies. Life depends on it. Everyone says things they don't really mean when they hang their hearts out there like so many of us have. -- Steve ---------------------------------------- From: "George & Nancy" To: Subject: Re: George Update Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:47:39 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Susan, Never give up hope! Good thoughts and prayers are being sent to you and Georgie ! Nan ---------------------------------------- From: "Steve Lackow" To: Subject: Re: Research, etc. Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:51:43 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Cary, your prior posts didn't make it clear -- or I missed it -- that you did the biopsy on Molly and it was negative. I'm so happy! Maybe it really is an FeLV masquerader. That's what I thought with Chloe. Until the biopsy. And you could not be more correct about the downside of accelerated information. Especially e-mail and posts, people fire away without even thinking. But don't you agree that we can short-circuit the development process in this manner? -- Steve ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:19:36 -0700 From: Cary Zeitlin Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Smoke The Peace Pipe Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Steve, I too found the adoptive immunotherapy article on Medline and I think it's a terrific possibility. As you say, it doesn't sound like a particularly difficult protocol. You just have to know who to send the lymphocytes to for culturing. Anyway, I took a printout of the abstract to the vet, and she basically said, "We couldn't do this." And this is a vet who's been very open to other suggestions I've made. Not sure why she shut the door so firmly on this one, but shut it she did. Cary ---------------------------------------- From: "Cheri Gardiner" To: Subject: Re: Research, etc. Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:15:30 -0600 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I will be leaving the list. I want to thank all of you for your help and support. This list has been very valuable to msyelf and my vet. Kitty went to the Rainbow Bridge today. The CRF had become too much for her to contniue fighting. She was in pain and her quality of life had deteriorated greatly. It was the most difficult decision I've ever made. Tonight is the first night in three years I won't have her sleeping beside me. Thank you again, everyone. You have helped. Cheri G and the three fur balls ---------------------------------------- From: "Claude Horstmann" To: Subject: Catch-22 Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:26:02 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hey ALL ! Joseph Heller's *Catch-22* ? *The enemy is anybody who's gonna get you killed.. no matter which side he's on * Chernobyl ' 86 ------ Felvtalk '98... *maitri* ---------------------------------------- From: "George & Nancy" To: "Felv" Subject: Tut - decision time Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 21:30:54 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net All, I have to tell you the story of Tut. Almost one year ago my husband and I were walking into a restaurant. While in the parking lot a kitten approx 9 months old, all white, filthy dirty, half starved and had burnt ear tips from walking under cars and hitting his ears on hot mufflers, walked from under a car right to us. My husband said "ahhh a kitty". Tut walked over and collpsed on my husbands feet. My husband said "we have to take him home". "Of course" I said. We already had two cats and a dog at home. We lost "Miranda" to felv about three years ago. We knew nothing about the disease. This time we knew to isolate Tut until we got him checked and tested. When the vet told me he was felv+ my heart sank. He told us that we could put him down. My husband and I discussed this and decided that we would make Tut as happy and comfortable as possible and we would let him know he is deeply loved. September would make one year that Tut would be with us. He would be around two years old. Tut got his name because he looks like an Egyptian cat with high, defined cheek bones and he has six toes on his front paws. Tut is very affectionate and purrs all the time. He has all the food and water he wants and a large fenced in yard to play. My poor Tut has been sick now for over a month. I've tried everything I can. I'm so torn. Could the treatment have become worse than the illness ? I don't know. I have decide that on Monday if Tut doesn't show any improvement I think I may stop all his meds. I don't want his last memories of me to be me stuffing pills down his throat. Am I trying to keep Tut alive for me or for him? I think both. But the other day I saw the "look", you know the one. The one that says "i love you but its time to go". Thats when I came to this decision. It will break my heart loosing my little Tut. In fact, I'm crying as I type this. But I know we made him happy and we loved him and he loved us. I pray to God every night for a miracle and if thats not possible a quick painless passing. My husband says we won't pick up anymore strays. But if people like us don't pick them up and love them who will? My Miranda was a stray and she died in 10 months from felv. I don't regret picking her up and taking her home and I'd do it all over again. It the same with Tut. I would do it all over again. Even tho my heart gets broken when they are sick and pass on. At least they know they were wanted and loved. They were treated as the gifts from God that they are. I'm sorry this was so long but I was really frustated and upset today. Thanks for listening. Nan ---------------------------------------- END