Friday August 14, 1998 Part 2 20 Messages ======================================== From: "Claude Horstmann" To: Subject: maitri Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:57:51 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net *Maitri*, pronounced *MY-tree* is a Sanskrit word, meaning *compassionate friendship* ... we have been brought together collectively to treat and declare war on FeLV- We are all caring and compassionate people here, making much more bearable a difficult feline experience.. AND, - - - - - pushing the envelope on treatments ! Consider that in the battle against Aids 1. the successful new combination drug therapies are linked to diet.. 2. one of the most frequent negative side effects of protease inhibitors is diabetes.. Consider too, the changes that WE have experienced as this list has aged ... Ambrotose- a relative newcomer.. is now practically a household word ! No matter which way we go in searching for treatment... it's going to be uphill-- and against the wind ? 'til Cheesecake ! peace & light, ..marilyn.. ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:44:37 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Stressful Visits Better Be Worth It Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Linda, Yes, I think his opinion would carry some weight with me. Yes it would. barb ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:11:28 +0000 From: LawBet Subject: Re: research and etc. To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Organization: Home for Wayward Felines Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I suggest we direct this passion and effort to the care, feeding and welfare of our cats and the defeat of FeLV. It's effort better directed. The Lurker ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:02:23 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: research and etc. Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Gabby, You are absolutely right. But unfortunately, it only takes one to cause disruption and chaos. One thing we all have be is flexable. Each person is different, each cat is different. When one person believes their way to be the only way there will be instant trouble. I do want to say this. I know of no one single person who has done more work and helped more people than our list leader, Jim. He is the heart and soul of this list. He is sensitive to people's feelings, their fears, their grief, realistic and able to deal with the here and now, gives hope, but not false hope of unattainable and unreachable cures, and intelligent in the sciences and able to plow thru unbelievably complicated reseach papers and pick out those that might, someday, help us. He has practically given up his own life to help us and others. He not only checks out what may become available here in the States, but what is being researched all over the world. I, for one, will not tolerate any attacks on him or his integrity. Anyone who is should examine their own reasons for doing so. Jealousy is the only reason I can think of. Now let's all get to work. We have some new members who need our help. barb ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:15:44 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: maitri Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Marilyn, Push the envelope on available treatments, you bet. But we can't use treatments still growing in a vial somewhere in a lab. Still being tested on rats. And again, most treatments for AIDS is toxic to cats and therefore, useless to us. It's the old, The operation was a success, but the patient died, routine. barb ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:17:37 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Ninja - long Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, Does Ninja drink enough water? Or do you give iron? Not enough water can cause constipation and so can iron. barb ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:49:54 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Weekly blood work Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Sonja, There is no doubt, that if there were millions to be made in finding a cure for felv, there would be more research. But Billions have been spent on AIDS research, and while they have come up with some highly toxic and expensive medications that slow it down, there is still no cure for it. But there is research going on for FeLV. Lots of it, it just doesn't get press it deserves. I know what you mean about spending your money the way you see fit. I drove a car that had 130K on it. Finally had to break down and another car. Without a car I can't work, can't work, can't make money to feed my feline hoard here. And get their shots and treatments etc etc. There are people who think I'm absolutely nuts. Know what? I don't care what they think. I do what I want and they can ... well, do what ever they want. But a new car won't come up at night and purr in your ear and give you a head butt will it. So we do what makes us happy and if they don't like it, they don't have to look at us!! barb ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:58:58 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Molly Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Pam, Bone marrow is vital in the production of both RBCs, WBCs and platelets. There are two types of bone marrow, red and yellow. It is in the red bone marrow that their formation begins. With malfunctioning or diseased bone marrow, there will be a definite problem with anemia. barb ---------------------------------------- From: "Moermond, Barbara" To: "'felvtalk@MailingList.net'" Subject: RE: Ninja - long Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:54:58 -0500 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, I don't give her any mineral supplements and she seems to drink plenty. Lord knows, she pees enough! W/the prednisone, she's drinking more than she did. I had to take iron supplements for a while several years ago, and after my experience, I would NEVER give them to her unless there was no other choice and our vet told us to. Even then, I would prefer to give her liver or spinach (if she'd eat it). Fortunately, her blood work has been OK all along. Except for that pesky positive for FeLV. Even so, she's only been tested once and that was with ELISA (same day result). I'm going to re-test her next month (when I've caught up a bit with the vet bill) and keep my fingers crossed. Barb+Ninja ---------------------------------------- From: "Steve Lackow" To: Subject: Re: maitri Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:13:32 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net There are real treatments for real cats that really work. This isn't "testing on rats". The toxicity and efficacy of antiretrovirals and other approaches can be managed. And is managed. And well. And some DO work with cats. Our patients are already dying, Barb. You and Jim seem content with the old ways that don't really work. You also seem to gratify yourself with personal attacks. I have half a mind to publish the private attacks you have made on me, to let everyone see how you behave when you're stressed. I won't do that, I value your contribution too much and shame on you for not valuing mine -- or myself as a person, or my cat and her struggle. But what I won't do is allow you to mislead people about the value of their hunting for a cure themselves, and taking their ideas to their vets. Together Everyone Achieves More. -- Steve ---------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:10:30 -0600 Subject: George Update To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi everybody, I haven't written about George lately because, well, frankly I was a bit discouraged and trying to recover my positive attitude. G had lost four ounces by last Friday--down from 9.6 to 9.2. He wasn't eating well and his URI hadn't cleared up. Also when I took him for his bi-weekly immunoregulin shot (on Friday) both vets were disheartened--thought he was going downhill, his immune system was so weak that the antibiotics couldn't work etc. So no more antibiotics (thank god). Well, I brought him home and cried. He was very sweet and cuddled w/ me as usual. So we went on about our business. Funny thing, the next morning I started noticing some improvement--well I kind of doubted my perception, thinking "I'm just seeing what I want to see." He has, however, continued to improve. His URI is pretty much gone (just a little sneeze once in a while w/ clear discharge). His appetite has grown as he's gotten his sense of smell back. Today at the vet's he weighed 10.3 lbs! More than a pound in one week! I thought that was a significant improvement, but the vet acted like it was no big deal and I shouldn't get my hopes up. Made me mad. I know she's trying to be objective and all that but can't a girl dream? Keep your prayers healing thoughts coming for Georgie--they're helping! Susan katseven@pcsia.com ---------------------------------------- From: "Moermond, Barbara" To: "'felvtalk@MailingList.net'" Subject: RE: George Update Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:15:10 -0500 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net That's AWESOME!!! Keep up the good work and weight gain:-) Good healing vibes coming your way from Barb+Ninja ---------------------------------------- From: KMH22@webtv.net (K H) Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:24:28 -0400 (EDT) To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: RE: Ninja - long Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net just a question....what is pet-aloe crumbles and where can i get some? thanks kelly and clovis ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:30:52 -0500 From: Gabriela Mendez Perez Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: George Update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Susan-- I may end up telling you how to boil water, but have you ever tried homeopathic treatment for George's URI's? I was just wondering because when Wolfie was first taken to the vet and diagnosed with FeLV, he had a URI and was put on antibiotics which seemed to me to do more harm than good. This past June, Garbanzo came down with a URI and I thought "oh, no, not Garbi too." Instead of taking him in to the vet, I tried a homeopathic treatment of Pulsatilla 30C and he almost immediately got better and his sniffles went away fairly quickly. Usually the URI's linger around my house, going from kitty to kitty, but this time, Garbi's disappeared quicksmart and the other cats didn't get sick at all. And he never lost his appetite or looked terribly debilitated, which has always happened with my cats before when they are battling a URI. If you don't already have a copy, you might want to grab a copy of Pitcairn's Natural Health for Dogs and Cats, which describes several homeopathic remedies for URI's. I've had great success with the treatments that book recommends. I've even taken to using some of the remedies for myself, using a homeopathic remedies book for humans. Oh, and, don't let the vets get you down. They sometimes are very leery of getting our hopes up and frankly will take very pessimistic views of our catfriends' chances. Let your eyes and your heart do the evaluating. And don't be afraid to forcefeed George if you need to. Sometimes just a one-day loss of appetite can weaken a kitty enough that it makes things tougher all around. Hi to George, and take care-- Gabby and los gatos fregados (the darn cats!) ---------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:23:02 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: George Update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Susan That is wonderful about Georges weight gain!! That is a definite inmprovement!! Sending good vibes and well wishes your way Gina ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:36:16 -0700 From: Cary Zeitlin Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: maitri Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Steve, Two questions: (1) Are the claims backed up by clinical studies proving efficacy? (2) Are the treatments available to vets in practice? If both answers are "yes," the obvious followup would be, "How much does it cost?" Cary ---------------------------------------- From: "Steve Lackow" To: Subject: Re: maitri Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:02:34 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Cary, the point I'm trying to make is that lay people can play a role in surfacing clinical therapies to their doctors. Vets, in this case. What happens is, patient's caregiver finds research. Caregiver takes to doctor. Doctor reads. Doctors discuss. They contact clinicians. All discuss. Clinicians make drugs available. It's happening with people, why not cats? This is the wonder of the Internet, how fast we can move information around, and in new ways and structures. And when you do this with your vet, you're no longer a patient or caregiver. You're a partner in treatment. One of the great technology advances of 1997 was providing Medline to the public free. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ Try searching on FeLV and FIV, and you'll see in 10 seconds how valuable this could be to us. Cary, I've read the list archives, and your cat sounds just like my Chloe. All FeLV tests negative, but seems like FeLV. For Chloe, it was the bone marrow biopsy that showed the virus. We lost (kind of, I really got a lot out of the experience!). I want you, and all, to win. And I will get way out on the tip of the long board in a cyclone if I have to. -- Steve ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:31:35 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: maitri Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I would like the names, addresses and or phone numbers of any and all practicing vets that are using these treatments in the outside world. Not lab vets, not web sites. I want to talk to one who is using it, common place, in his community practice. barb ---------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:31:33 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Re: Research Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Well said barb ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:36:57 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: maitri Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net In theory, it sounds wonderful. We find research, take it to our vets, the vets call the lab, gets med, cat cured. They will NOT give out medications still in the research phase. I don't know what I can say to make people realize this. If they did, I would do it in a heartbeat. I called Bayer, trying to get my cats on the Baypamun research. They wouldn't even consider it. Not even on an experimental basis. They will lost their licence if they do. It just isn't done. barb ---------------------------------------- END