Thursday August 13, 1998 Part 1 20 Messages ======================================== Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:47:36 +0100 From: "Sonja Lnders" To: Felvtalk Subject: To Steve Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net But if there were a miracle pill or injection to ensure a complete cure, costing thoose thousands of dollars: Yes, YES, Y E S !!!!!!!! Sonja ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:10:49 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: "'felvtalk@mailinglist.net'" Subject: Re: Ninja news Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, I'm so glad Ninja is better. It really sounds like maybe there was some binder or other ingredient in the *new* pills that didn't agree with her. Hope you have many more nights of cuddling. Nancy ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:16:30 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Cheri G. Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Cheri, I don't have any experience with failing kidneys, but I am going to look for any information in my natural cat books. I'll get back to you soon. Love, Nancy ---------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 16:53:12 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Ninja news Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb I am glad to hear your baby is doing much better after her bad weekend. Our babies go thru so much. I am glad you got her back on the original brands of meds she was on. Good luck with her, hope this weekend coming is a much better one for you too!!! Give her hugs Gina ---------------------------------------- From: "Steve Lackow" To: Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: I'm Ba-ack... Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:09:12 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Jim. Looks like my Mets caught your Cubs (again). I subscribed as rpminfonet@rpmconsulting.com , and that's my default in my e-mail settings, wonder why the old address is there... Thanks for pointing out the excessive quoting... -- Steve ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:38:53 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Amaretto Cheesecake Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net The main problem with the human treatments for AIDS/HIV is they are extremely toxic for cats. There are many drugs that can be used for both, but almost just as many that can kill them and help us. We have to be very careful. Should we put our cats through untold agony trying to keep them with us? Of course not, but monthy blood work, to me, doesn't fall into that catagory. barb ---------------------------------------- From: "Steve Lackow" To: Subject: Re: Amaretto Cheesecake Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:48:20 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Cheescake = Cure Marilyn, that's what people with HIV who are on antiretroviral therapy go through. But it works, it reduces the virus to undetectable levels. I've found some research on similar therapies that apparently are effective against FIV and/or FeLV, and there is research continuing on what I understand are called protease inhibitors that effectively block replication of the virus. I believe there is one called Pepstatin A that has been shown to be highly effective in vitro against FIV. Has anyone heard of it? I am sorry to say that most interest focuses on simian and human virus and has in recent years, and that I have learned that most things that work on HIV don't work against FIV and FeLV. Anyway, to me, the question of whether to put a cat through an intensive therapy like this -- even if it works -- is ethical and not medical (if you can afford it financially). People choose what they wish to do. Cats don't. We have to try to choose what they want. But I think most cat lovers, if they are honest with themselves, can tell when the cat wants to let go, and when they want to fight. Let me tell you, the biggest thing I learned from Chloe was fight. I didn't come back here to visit a cemetery. This list is supposed to be about new methods for treatment. It is also not the coroner's office nor the funeral home , as much as our hearts ache for our bridge cats. Nor is it supposed to be the "Megadose In Desperation" page. -- Steve ---------------------------------------- From: "George & Nancy" To: "Felv" Subject: ambrotose Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:58:07 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Linda, I got the ambrotose today. I'm going to try it. I tried to use your personal e-mail address but I kept getting delivery failure. thanks again for all of your help ! Nan ---------------------------------------- From: CatzNStuff@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:59:00 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: ambrotose Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Nan, and everyone, Here's two new screen names for you to try. The AskforArt screen name was my husband's, but he never used it until recently. You can reach me at Manatek@aol.com (for Mannatech products or information), or CatzNStuff@aol.com, where James is now sending the List Mail and where you should order kitty-packets of Ambrotose. Linda P ---------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:43:18 -0600 Subject: Re: Maxwell and his eyes To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Melanie, Poor Maxwell! I did a little reading (no personal exp. w/ corneal ulcers), both in my conventional cat care books and my natural cat care books. 1. Cortisone can cause the cornea to rupture, so I'm not sure what's in the steroid drops, but check it out asap. (From Cat owner's Home Veterinary Handbook, p.136) 2. There are homeopathic treatments for corneal ulcers (Ledum or Aconite or Silicea), but there are specific procedures that must be followed--a little complicated for discussion here. Also my lunch break's almost up! Anyhow, Richard Pitcairn discusses Aconite for corneal ulcers (dosages etc.) in his book, Natural Health for Dogs and Cats. The info above came from The Encyclopedia of Natural Pet Care by CJ Puotinen, 1998--Great Book! I'll look in more of my books when I get home from work this evening. Take care, Susan katseven@pcsia.com ---------------------------------------- From: "zimmerman" To: "felvtalk" Subject: Protease inhibitors Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 15:18:53 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Steve, Are protease inhibitor drugs being used on cats? The protease inhibitor cocktail for HIV I found also had ddI (interferon?) & AZT. AZT & ribavirin are toxic to cats so a different antiviral would have to be used. Do cocktails need to be adjusted? Is that why frequent blood tests are needed. Beth ---------------------------------------- From: "Steve Lackow" To: Subject: Stressful Visits Better Be Worth It Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 16:21:14 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Sorry, but I strongly disagree with such a generalization. And, you miss the point. This is not just "blood work". But I want to know how others feel, which is why I asked, so thanks. As a cat, this is what I see. I feel sleepy and I don't know where I am. Here comes the carrier. Stuffed into a little box and thrown about. That means car. Stuffed in a big noisy box. That means vet. Dogs, more noise, germs. I can smell the fear. Poking me. Sticking me. Shoving stuff at me, down me, holding me down. Back in the carrier. Out of the tranquilizer, my head hurts, I fall down. Who do you love anyway -- me, or you? Sure, I had a cat that liked to travel. Once. Every other cat I've ever had, especially the smart ones like Chloe, loathe it. You had better be sure that what you are doing works before subjecting an FeLV cat to this kind of stress. But, big but, if I was sure it worked... I would look into kitty's eyes and ask... and probably try it to see how it goes... -- Steve ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 19:21:24 +0000 From: LawBet Subject: Re: Stressful Visits Better Be Worth It To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Organization: Home for Wayward Felines Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I had a cat once, Tuffy, he died of non-FeLV causes when he was 15. Before that, however, in addition to trips to the vet, he travelled to Germany, Alabama, Michigan, and Illinois. His travels were by car and DC-10. It seems to me, cats are similar to people with regard to how much stress is heaped upon them when travelling, going to the vet or anything else for that matter. Each is different and handles it differently. Each of us knows, or should know, how much our pets can handle. I do not believe in "extreme measures" for sustaining life; be it for humans or kitties. The good "extreme" doesn't exist. All "extremes" are bad regardless of what end of the spectrum they are on. Extreme justice is no better than extreme injustice. The Lurker ---------------------------------------- From: Qpeee@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 20:58:24 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Copies to: Qpeee@aol.com Subject: Re: TUT Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Dear George and Nancy, Hang in there. I know what you're going through with Tut and that it feels so unbearable at times. My heart and prayers go out to all three of you. You're doing ALL you can do. Colleen ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 21:06:19 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Stressful Visits Better Be Worth It Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Ariel has had several trips to the vet. She pops out of the carrier, down on the counter to greet the girls, purr and coo and walk on their keyboards, like she does mine. Head butts the vet. Zack just comes out, lays down on the table and looks around like, you may pay me homage now. I have only two who get upset. both are felv neg and goes in yearly for boosters. They are seven now and no worse the wear for the visits once home. They forget all about it until next year. barb ---------------------------------------- From: WORKPARK@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 21:41:34 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Tut Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi all, I've been at a convention since early Saturday morning. I'm trying to get through all the email, and it's taking a lot of time. So far, I haven't had too much to add tot he wonderful advice I've seen, but I did want to mention another option for Nan's situation. In addition to trying Prednisone, you can try DepoMedrol. It's an injectable steroid that does have to be dosed by a vet. However, it's long-lasting (2 to 4 weeks) and may be less stressful, since it doesn't involve pilling. All of the suggestions you've been getting are good ones. Don't give up hope. Pam ---------------------------------------- From: "zimmerman" To: "felvtalk" Subject: Steve's Question Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:56:47 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Steve, If it's possible to make a disease inactive for an extended period of time, like they're doing for HIV, then that's the next best thing to a cure. Am I interested in the therapy? YES! That's why I'm here! I had to make the decision to do nothing because doing something would be too stressful for my cat who died a few years ago. I don't have to make that decision for my FeLV+ cats. If they can stay healthy & happy, but have to go to the vet weekly, we are ready. Tell them to hurry up with the more reliable treatments. JACKSON, KIX, & me want to fight! Beth ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 15:02:55 -0700 From: Cary Zeitlin Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Amaretto Cheesecake Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Well said, barb. I would take it a step further and say even weekly blood work is not excessive. Kitties who are extremely stressed by frequent vet trips can be given a small dose of tranq to take the edge off. Other kitties get used to it and aren't too stressed. Cary ---------------------------------------- From: "Steve Lackow" To: Subject: Re: Protease inhibitors Date sent: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 15:05:35 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Beth. Yes, cocktails are dynamic and constantly need to be adjusted based on weekly blood tests. No, to my knowledge aggressive antiretroviral therapies are not being used on cats. Why? I speculate that cost, intensity of administration and lack of scientific interest are at work. In other words, "you've got to be kidding, it's just a cat." Now where have I heard that crap before? I believe that there is just one antiretroviral (name escapes me, but I have this stuff at home) on the recommended AIDS protocol from the CDC that is NOT toxic to people in extended use. That's one of the reasons for the juggling. The other reason is declining effectiveness. Both issues -- toxicity and efficacy -- also apply to low dose oral inteferon therapy, which is why the protocol for that is on again-off again, too. -- Steve ---------------------------------------- At 1:43 PM -0500 on 8/13/98, katseven@pcsia.com wrote: > Hi Melanie, > > Poor Maxwell! I did a little reading (no personal exp. w/ corneal > ulcers), both in my conventional cat care books and my natural cat care >books. > > 1. Cortisone can cause the cornea to rupture, so I'm not sure what's in > the steroid drops, but check it out asap. (From Cat owner's Home > Veterinary Handbook, p.136) > The Ak-Trol has neomycin, polymixin, and dexamethasone (which is a corticosteroid). I'm not using that in the eye with the ulcer now, but I was. If instructed to return to using it, before doing so, I'll be sure and discuss this with the ophthalmologist. Thanks for the information. Thing is, without a steroid ointment or drop, the pupils dilate fairly quickly, and the globe of the eye (whichever one is dilated) swells and becomes quite painful for Max. > 2. There are homeopathic treatments for corneal ulcers (Ledum or > Aconite or Silicea), but there are specific procedures that must be >followed--a > little complicated for discussion here. Also my lunch break's almost > up! Anyhow, Richard Pitcairn discusses Aconite for corneal ulcers > (dosages etc.) in his book, Natural Health for Dogs and Cats. The info above > came from The Encyclopedia of Natural Pet Care by CJ Puotinen, 1998--Great > Book! > > I'll look in more of my books when I get home from work this evening. > > Take care, > > Susan > katseven@pcsia.com Thanks for this! Any information you have on this would be helpful. It's my understanding, after what I've read about indolent ulcers and after talking with my regular vet, that these types of ulcers are extremely difficult to heal. Melanie ---------------------------------------- END