Monday August 10, 1998 Part 2 15 Messages ======================================== From: GinaTex@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:56:15 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Re: "Melody" the Music Store Cat Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Betty Well from reading Sonja's letter I guess I may be wrong on being both. Gina ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 21:07:08 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Molly Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Cary, This is wonderful news for you and Molly. I to, was a little in wonder about the rapid rise in the blood work. It just didn't make sense. Some folks on the list struggle for weeks and weeks to get even a little improvement. I am not familiar with this bone marrow disease, but I will be shortly. Be sure and let us know what the lab test are tomorrow and if the news remains good, (we are all hoping) I hope you stay with the list and help others who aren't so fortunate. You are very knowledgeable about the blood work, something that baffles a lot of folks. barb ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 21:18:29 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Thymus hormone....... Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Lynn, HI! Yes, I got mine at the health food store. Not to expensive. It's bovine, that's all that's available. I don't see why it couldn't be given with DMG. It's given with other immune system boosters. How is Stinker's mouth doing?? barb ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 21:31:21 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Tut update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net All, As someone who has lost 5 to this disease, we can't feel as tho we have failed them somehow when we make the decision to end their suffering. The pain is great, but we must always think of them first and their suffering. I am not one to give up, but when they tell you, ask you if it's ok to go now, we must let them go. There should never be any guilt about feeling relief when it is over. This is normal. We spend every waking minute sometimes taking care of them and don't realize how exhausting it is until it's over. That's how I was with Merlin. I would do it all again, but when he was gone, I felt as tho I had nothing to do! It wasn't until that moment that I realized just how much of my day centered around him and his care. We just have to enjoy every moment, cheer every improvement and then, when necessary, know when we are beaten. This is the cycle of life as it has been since the beginning. barb ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:35:16 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: three ring circuits Subject: Re: (Fwd) RE: Ester C Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net thanks Nancy! nope.. Hershey definitely doesn't seem sick.. in fact as I'm typing here, he's scarfing down his supper after howling at me a few minutes ago that I was late delivering it! I'll let you all know more the end of the week hopefully. I'm just hoping his titer is beginning to go down........... all fingers crossed here you can be sure. :-) > > > Debby, & the HBG (the HairballGang) ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:39:10 +0100 From: "Sonja Lnders" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Tut update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Nan, When my Schurli was very poorly with a temperature and would not eat, my vet told me to give him a small piece (1/8 to 1/4) of a valium tablet, supposed to stimulate his appetite, and give him water with a syringe as often as possible. However the valium did not help in Schurli's case. So I boiled some breast of chicken, or some frozen fish, and first forced some of the milky liquid (= the water it had cooked in) into him by syringe. About a minute or two later, he would eat a little chicken, or fish, from my hand. Schurli is still with me..........maybe it will work for Tut too!!!!! Feeling with you, Sonja ---------------------------------------- From: KMH22@webtv.net (K H) Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:47:27 -0400 (EDT) To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: New to the list Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hello, my name is kelly and my beautiful cat is Clovis. On saturday i found out that clovis is felv+. i'm feeling scared right now cause i dont know anything about this or what to expect or what to do from this point. The way i found out was clovis had been acting very tired. He wouldn't even get up to say hi to me when i came home from work. And he felt a little hot. So i took him in and he did have a fever of 104. The vet didn't know what was causing the fever so she recommeded i get clovis tested for felv. i didn't think much of it cause clovis is an indoor cat and the vets i've taken him to before said i shouldn't worry about. Then the results came and he was positive. I cant figure out where he got it from unless his mother had it and gave it to him. I dont know. I guess that isn't even an issue now. But the vet gave me some antibiotics to give to him and they seemed to be working by sunday. My question is where do i go from here??? Clovis is almost 5 years old and has never been really sick. Should i start him on a treatment? which one is best? I'm taking clovis to an all cat clinic so maybe they can give me more info than the other vet did. I live in Virginia Beach, VA. does anyone have any suggestions as to where the best place to take him is? One other Question does anyone know of any pet insurance that will help with the cost of taking care of my baby? I could kick myself for now getting it a month ago when i read the brochure on it. There probably wont be, but if there happens to be one i know people on the list would know. Thanks in advance for the help... Kelly and Clovis ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 23:03:08 +0100 From: "Sonja Lnders" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: "Melody" the Music Store Cat Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hello, Betty, Yes, you are not alone, my Schurli also tested positive both FeLV and FIV in Sept.'96. He was fine until late April '98, when he became so ill he had to have several courses of antibiotics, because when we stopped giving them he soon had fever again! Since then he has been getting slowly better on the Ambrotose, Pet-Tinic and VitC that Marilyn, from this list, so kindly sent us from USA! And since we are in Europe, I am using German medicines that are easier to get here: He had a course of 10 BAYPAMUM shots and at the moment gets some homeopatic liquid orally, that my Viennese vet sent me. But there are equivalent drugs in America you can use, the main thing is to strengthen his immune system. The Ambrotose and Pet-Tinic is very good, you might like to start Melody on that. (I have another cat who is FIV+, but still doing well, like Melody, and I have just started to give him Ambrotose, to fortify him.) I am sure you will get a lot more helpful suggestions from the more experienced members on this list! Hoping your Melody will stay healthy! Sonja ---------------------------------------- From: "Moermond, Barbara" To: "'felvtalk@MailingList.net'" Subject: RE: New to the list Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:10:49 -0500 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Kelly + Clovis, I'm very sorry about the test results, my first vet also didn't think it was necessary to test my Ninja because she was indoors with me. I am on my 3rd vet and it is also a cats only clinic. Unfortunately, no pet insurance company will touch a kitty w/leukemia. I know because I've kicked myself for not signing up when I first saw it advertised. I called and spoke to one of the companies and was told that they couldn't touch Ninja with a ten foot pole. As for treatments, if Clovis is otherwise healthy, the main thing you want to do is make sure he has a very nutritious diet and you may want to boost his little immune system. There are many supplements out there to use. One that many people on the list use is called Ambrotose, which is aloe-based. I came across something called Pet-Aloe Crumbles. "..is manufactured with whole leaf organically grown Aloe Vera that is extremely high in mucopolysaccharide content...The formula also contains Yucca Schidigera, vitamins and minerals. Yucca Schidigera, a species of the yucca plant, contains high levels of natural saponins. These saponins are biologically active compounds and have shown positive results in many livestock feeding trials in enhancing performance measured by feed conversion, weight gain, livability; etc. The main reason Yucca Schidigera is included.. is because of it's ability to reduce ammonia levels.....in one study, fecal odor was reduced by as much as 49% in cats" (the brochure) I haven't been able to get to their web-site, so if someone would care to go and enlighten me......... that would be great http://www.tds.net/pharm-aloe Folks, if any of you veterans out there have heard good or bad about this product, please let me know. It's less expensive than Ambrotose, and unfortunately, that's a factor for me. But, I will spring for the Ambrotose if anybody has heard anything bad about the Pet-Aloe Crumbles or it's other ingredients. I figure aloe is a good place to start from, so it probably couldn't hurt. Sorry for the tangent, Kelly! Basically, do a lot of research (the angelfire page is a great place to start- the University of Wisconsin at Madison (my alma mater) has recently endorsed it-, the list archives would be great too) and do what feels right for you and Clovis. You will have good days and not-so-good days, and you will keep on learning about what you can do to help your little one. All of us do. Hope this helps Barb+Ninja ---------------------------------------- From: "zimmerman" To: "felvtalk" Subject: Re: Suggestions for Tut Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:39:33 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, Are you retesting Ariel soon? Does the thymus stimulate T-cells better than DMG against a previously unidentified invader? Does it make a difference if they *contracted* the virus as a kitten or when they were over 1 yr.? Beth ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:41:05 -0700 From: Cary Zeitlin Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: New to the list Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Kelly, It is important to realize that the biggest threats to Clovis are infections and parasites that immune-suppressed cats are vulnerable to. There is, at present, no well-established protocol for eliminating the FeLV virus from your kitty, but in spite of that you may be able to keep him going for a good long while. FeLV, and apparently some other diseases, suppress the function of the bone marrow. The marrow produces red and white blood cells, among other things. When red cell production drops off, kitties develop anemia, the main symptoms being lethargy and lack of appetite. When the normal white cells drop off, kitties begin to lose their ability to fend off infections and parasites. Some of these infections will respond to antibiotics. Some of the best things you can do for Clovis are to keep an eye on his temp., get his blood checked as regularly as you can, keep him hydrated (the vet can give him fluids and also show you how to do it at home), and consider giving him steroids and/or an immune stimulant. Some of the folks on this list have had good results with ImmunoRegulin and I'm sure you'll be hearing from them. There are also appetite stimulants if he doesn't start eating on his own. Good luck! Cary ---------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:13:40 -0600 Subject: Candle Service: 8-10-98 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net To be performed at 10 pm EST time, if possible (to correspond w/ http://www.petloss.com/ ). CANDLE CEREMONY Written by Lisa Singer (lsinger@aol.com) The candles being lit tonight; Cast a soft and welcome flame. And draw our loved ones to the light, As we call to them by name. Imagine spirits taking flight, For a moment our souls entwine. Say not Good Night, but in some Brighter Time Bid them all- Good Morning. WE GATHER TOGETHER TO HONOR AND REMEMBER OUR PETS Tonight, Monday, we join hands, hearts and souls across the land as one large extended family to pray for our sick and dying pets and to pay tribute to our furbabies who have gone ahead to Rainbow Bridge. Someday, we will meet them again, with hugs, tears and kisses, as we walk together, in eternity, to our new home. Until that blessed day, we honor these precious souls and remember them with the warm glow of flickering candles, sending a message of love, light and healing, and the faith to believe in miracles. PRAYER: God, Creator of all living things, we ask that as we light our candles, the healing warmth of love will flow into the brokenhearted who are tending their ailing pets. Give to them Your strength and comfort. We also pray that the soft glow of light will part the clouds of grief and sorrow to surround our furbabies at the Bridge. May excitement REIGN SUPREME as wagging tails and ecstatic purrs feel our gentle touch once again. May they know the gratitude we hold in our hearts for their faithfulness and gift of unconditional love as they are forever remembered. We are temporarily separated for only a short while. The silver cord that connects us through time and space can never be broken. AMEN. CANDLE 1: BRIDGE FUR CHILDREN Read the names of those who have gone on before us as a tribute to them and their loving parents. As we all meet here, our Bridgekids will be meeting all newcomers, easing their way. I will not look back for there is sorrow. I will not look for today for there is longing. I will look forward for there is OUR tomorrow. CANDLE 2: SPECIAL NEEDS FUR CHILDREN Read the names of all those who are sick, injured, or have special circumstances. Tails (that the treatment to boost his immune system is successful) Randall George (that the treatment is successful) Susan Domenique (that the treatments will bring back her health) Kat EPC Beatrice (that she remains in good health until there is a cure) Saliha Schurli (that the treatment may really help) Sonja Ninja (for continued success in treatment of meningioma and FeLV) Barb Sophia (for continued good health) Gina & JoAnn Luke four-year-old male (for continued success of treatment for felv and for a good home) Gina & Joann Rissa-Tai (for continued improvement) Pam & Chuck Howling Kitty four-year-old male with advanced lymphosarcoma & felv Arlene Grey Tabby in Little Rock, Arkansas (felv+, needs home) Cheri G. Misha Chere Together we unite to give thanks for the special pets who have improved in health and strength. We also, being of one heart, pray for the Mommies, Daddies, and little ones who struggle together against serious illness. We remember in quiet reverence the special ones who left us and we pray for the grieving families left behind. And we can never forget all who work to save the homeless and abused animals. Their burden is never light. With one heart, all are remembered and forever cherished by this family of love. CANDLE 3: FOR ACKNOWLEDGMENT AND PEACE In honor of all the homeless, forgotten, abandoned, abused animals. For the nameless little ones who gave their lives for others, for research and as a result of humankind's inhumanity. May the Higher Powers that be forgive the cruelty. We light this candle for them. As our lights shine brightly through the galaxy, may the angels smile upon us, and know that for a brief moment, we have put aside worldly differences to bond as ONE. CLOSING: I have sent you on a journey to a land free from pain, not because I did not love you, but because I loved you too much to force you to stay. MOMENT OF SILENCE. "Blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted." Love, light and healing to all. Amen. ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:31:00 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Angela Holderby Subject: Re: (Fwd) nutrition Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Welcome to the list!!!! Yes, you will find that these wonderfully self-educated (mostly through trial and error) do know more than a lot of vets...but through the people on here, many vets are becoming educated in the treatment of this vicious disease. As far as medication goes, there are many on this list who are much more knowledgeable than I...but for the nutrition, I have done some research on that. I also fed my kitties meow mix because they liked it, it was cheap, and we had no problems with it...until after I found out they were felv positive. Then, as I read, I discovered that nutrition plays a huge part in this deal. One report I read, written by a Vet, said that if you do nothing else for your felv+ cat, then get them started on a good, high quality, nutritious cat food. Many from this list make their own food, but I switched my cats to Iams Lamb and Rice Formula. According to this vet, many of the cheaper, commercial foods are made from slaughter-house rejects. Many of these animals were rejected because their bodies contained extremely high levels of antibiotics. It has been documented that some children who are severely allergic to penicillin have become seriously ill after consuming pet foods made from these rejected animals. If the levels are high enough to make a child sick, think what that could do to a 5 or 6 lb. cat!!! That was enough to get my attention. I have heard that many cats do not like the good stuff...like us, they prefer junk food. I have read that people have had success by mixing some of the cheaper stuff with the good food and gradually decreased the amount of lesser quality food. It is definitely worth a try. I will see if I can locate the information on the net, but I do know that I was convinced to switch foods based on the article. I am sure some of the others on the list can provide you with nutritional information about raw-meat diets and home-cooked foods for your cat. Just read all of this, then make the decision you are comfortable with...and we wish you and Smokina all the luck in the world!!! Write if I can do anything to help.... Angela (and Poncho & Jodi) ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:18:39 -0700 From: Cary Zeitlin Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Molly Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi all, We had an interesting (good) development with Molly. If you recall, last week when I first posted to the group I said she had been diagnosed with leukemia in spite of testing - for FeLV. The diagnosis was based on her symptoms (swollen lymph nodes, severe anemia with all its effects, steady decline in white blood cells, production of incorrectly formed wbc's, etc.) and not on the FeLV test results. However, in a span of 7 days, she went from being extremely anemic (PCV=10) to not-so-bad (PCV=22), and her reticulocyte count went way up too, to 130k. During this time, she received 3 Epogen injections and her steroid was switched from Pred to Dexamethasone (0.25 mg twice a day). It is, of course, unclear whether the med's are responsible for the increased rbc production; it seems unlikely they could work so fast. The news about the rbc's is good, but the real kicker is that, all of a sudden, she is making new wbc's. I'll find out what the exact count is tomorrow, but, for the first time, it is headed up. This has caused one of the vets -- one who was never convinced of the leukemia diagnosis -- to change the diagnosis to "myelodysplasia", i.e., malfunctioning bone marrow. But, based on the blood tests, Molly's bone marrow now appears to have re-started. It seems like a miracle. The vet said she has never seen an FeLV cat start to make new wbc's (which is part of the reason she is saying it isn't, and never was, leukemia). Not coincidentally, Molly is showing improved color, energy, and appetite. I don't pretend to understand this, nor does the vet (who I am convinced is top-notch), but I am extremely pleased and hoping that the upward trend continues. Thanks to all for the kind notes, support, and good suggestions. Cary ---------------------------------------- From: "Lynn or Josiah Stickels" To: "felvtalk" Subject: Thymus hormone....... Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:30:21 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi! Where do you get the Thymus hormone? Do you get it at the health food store? And do you give it along with the DMG?............Lynn(Stinker) ---------------------------------------- END