Monday August 10, 1998 Part 1 20 Messages ======================================== From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 07:09:39 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Tut Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Nan, Is Tut drinking water? They can dehydrate so quickly. Tut can get fluids under the skin from the vet if needed. Sometimes just getting fluids makes them feel better. Let's start with a rundown of what Tut is getting now. I have to leave for work now but know that we are all pulling for you and know what you are going thru. We have all been there. barb ---------------------------------------- From: "George & Nancy" To: "Felv" Subject: Tut Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 04:30:25 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net THANK YOU ALL SO VERY MUCH !!! I had a weak moment and was so VERY frustrated. The last few weeks have been hell. Your help and support mean the world to me. You all understand what I'm going through. I have a feeling this will be a tough week for me and Tut. Regardless of all we've been through I thank God that Tut found us. And even though my heart is breaking right now, I would do it all over again. when Tut found us he was half starved and injured. We fed him and took him to the vet to be checked. when we found out about the Felv + we decided we would make him as happy and comfortable as possible. We would do everything we could for him as long as he was not suffering or in pain. At least, if Tut must leave me, he knows that he was loved. My husband and I love him with all our hearts. And I know he loves us too. Isn't that the most improtant thing - to be loved and love others. Thank you all again, I really needed to talk and this helps me. Nan & Tut ---------------------------------------- From: ksent@pacbell.net Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 02:00:16 -0700 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Tut Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Our hearts go out to you. Of course he knows you love him, and if he has to leave you now, he'll definitely be reunited with you again someday! ---------------------------------------- From: Derbherb13@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:18:31 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: "Melody" the Music Store Cat Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hello everyone! I am new to the list, so I would like to introduce myself and my cat. My husband found a wild kitten in an abandoned factory, and decided to adopt her as a mascot for his music store. We can't bring her home to our other cats because she has FeLV and Feline AIDS. So far she is doing very well.We've had her for about 8 or 9 months. She is taking Interferon. Is there anyone else out there who has a cat with BOTH Leuk.and AIDS? If so, what are you doing about it? Please share because we love Melody and so do all the customers at the store. Sincerely, Betty ---------------------------------------- From: "James G. Wilson" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:24:12 +0000 Subject: (Fwd) nutrition Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Isinofre Wyrm-bane" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: nutrition Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 07:26:24 PDT This is my third day on the mailing list and I can already see that there are, finally, others out there who feel as I do about my furry friend. Smokina was diagnosed recently with FeLV after our 4th visit to the vet with, supposedly, upper respiratory infections. He finally got around to testing her and the positive result was almost instantaneous (very serious, I understand). Now we know what happened to our other dear friend, Satch Mahony. Satchimo had lost his ability to retain urine, had lost serious weight (18lbs to just over 8lbs), and couldn't see due to his inability to focus. His irises were almost never the same size. The vet diagnosed him with progressive kidney disease and was treating him for that problem, but never mentioned or tested him for FeLV. We had to put him to sleep in September of last year because his kidneys finally failed. I felt so helpless, at the time, and, now, I'm so very angry. Smokina was only 4 weeks old when we rescued her from a single soldier who had planned to keep her in his barracks room! She didn't even know how to eat solid food, yet. We've been honored to have her grace our home for the past 3-1/2 years and I can't begin to imagine what life will be like without her, but all this could have been prevented!!! I'm so angry with myself and with my vet. He thought, since they were indoor cats, that they didn't need testing or vaccination for FeLV. I still don't know where Satchimo contracted it. He was 8 years and 4 months old when he passed over, and I still miss his bird talk. Egyptian Mau's don't meow. They trill like birds and his trill was exceptionally beautiful. Anyway, I'm writing because you people know so much more than even my vet seems to know. What should I be feeding her? She has always been given a can of commercial cat food every morning (which she never finishes) and has dry food to nibble on throughout the day. She loves Meow Mix over anything else I've tried, including the really expensive vet brands, and eats it fairly well. Her tastes in canned food vary from day to day. I never can predict what she'll want (which is why I love cats to begin with), so I just give her something different every day, and, if she seems to show a preference, buy more of that type the next time. Any suggestions? I know that she needs more nutrition during this time in her illness and I'm uncertain what to do. She hates the stuff from the vet (premium cat food, etc.) and she refuses to eat it. What should I be feeding her? Thanks for any help you may be able to give me. I love my puss and want to keep her with me as long as possible. Smokina's Mom, Deborah ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:52:18 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Tut Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Nan, I confirm what Barb has said. Also, there's a solution called Ringers Lactate that you and your husband could actually give Tut at home. It involves putting a needle just through Tut's skin to hydrate him. It doesn't hurt him and it's a way to hydrate him without having him go to the vet. It worked wonders on a cat of mine. Nancy ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:30:04 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Suggestions for Tut Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Nan, I see in a post you mentioned the use of thymus hormone replacement. I am in the process, (time, need 40 hours in a day!) of writing a paper on the immune system. The Thymus gland, located under the breastbone, is a huge part of the immune system and the production of T-cells. However, they have found that this gland is most active while growth is taking place, by their 20's, (humans) it starts to slow and by 40 is totally inactive, dead really. In cat's, they feel this slowdown to inactivity is much faster, since their metabolism is so much greater than ours. Hence, the shorter lifespan. So they feel it is already becoming inactive by one year. Now T-cells and their ability to identify and attach invaders continues for many years, even tho the thymus is slow or inactive, but producing T-cells that will attach a previously unidentified invader are in question. This is why some vets are now recommending the use of thymus with ImmunoRegulin or any immune system booster really. You must remember that anything we is an experiment really. What has helped some, doesn't help the next one. It's very frustrating. Of course, with the introduction of thymus hormone, it is hoped, I stress hoped, that the T cells will be stimulated once again. barb ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:52:00 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: three ring circuits Subject: Re: (Fwd) RE: Ester C Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net hi Nancy! Yup..... Hershey's sneezing seems to come and go. Somedays NO sneezies..... other days he's constantly sneezing. I keep thinking it MUST be allergies. I'm taking him back to the vet's on Wed. of this week for another titer test.... BUT..... more and more I've been hearing about LOTS of problems with this ELISA test for FIP. A number of vets are telling me to just let him out of this room and not worry about the test - that I'm just stressing him out more keeping him in this room. I'm hoping I'll have more answers by this Friday... I'd just LOVE to let him outta here as he's been isolated now for over 2 mos. and is NOT a happy kitty. And.. yes.. he seems "fine" to me! Eating like a little piggy etc. BTW.... I've been giving him about 250 mg of the Ester C now each day and NO diarrhea . Debby, & the HBG (the HairballGang) ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:00:52 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: (Fwd) RE: Ester C Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Debby, Hershey seems so well; perhaps he does not have FIP. I sure hope not! It would be wonderful if he could come out and play with the other kitties. It's a hard decision to make, but I'm sure you'll make the right one. Nancy ---------------------------------------- From: "zimmerman" To: "felvtalk" Subject: Suggestions for Tut Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:04:39 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Nan, I think the only reference for using thymus for a FeLV+ cat is the experiment with ImmunoRegulin IV's, Co Q10, & thymus. They add thymus because if a cat is over 1 yr. it may help the ImmunoRegulin IV's work better. DMG that a vet recommended to the list stimulates T-cells. The info is on The FeLV Project Information Sheet. If Tut isn't eating very much some supplements may be irritating his stomach. The Co Q10 benefits gum health, but if he's not eating much it may be best to stop until he's eating better. There's questions about the benefits of Vit. C in cats. Vit. A, E, & C are antioxidants that can help prevent tissue damage, but you can also get antioxidants from other sources. www.kvvet.com/freerad.htm www.kvvet.com/bioflavs.htm (more info on Information sheet) You could ask your vet to recommend a good vit. mineral supplement (Pet-Tinic is good for anemic cats) for cats & add an antioxidant without extra vitamins. Your vet can get you high calorie-protein food, paste, or liquid for when Tut won't eat well. Food that is really smelly & room temp. or a little warmer may encourage Tut to eat. A Vit. B injection from your vet may turn him around if he is very anorexic. For hydration your vet can get you an electrolyte product to give orally after or instead of intravenous fluid therapy. Is Tut's interferon protocol 1cc 7 days on then 7 days off? If he's not too stressed by vet visits it may benefit to add ImmunoRegulin IV. Some research says the combination works better than the drugs individually. Tell Tut we're all pulling for him. Beth ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:49:29 -0700 From: Cary Zeitlin Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Tut Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Nan, Looks to me like you've got it right -- give Tut all the love and care you can, and keep fighting until the suffering is too much. One of the terrible things about this disease is that it can be slow and progressive, so we watch our friends decline and waste away while our hearts break. That said, as long as Tut isn't suffering a great deal, there are still things you can try. One thing we've used on Molly that I haven't seen mentioned here is an appetite-stimulating drug called Periactin. It also goes by the name of Cyproheptadine, and if your vet doesn't have it, your local pharmacy probably will. We've had success giving 1/4 to 1/2 of a 4 mg tab twice a day. It might make Tut seem a bit anxious or restless for a few hours as a side effect, but that seems like a small price to pay for getting him to eat on his own. There is, as others have mentioned, the force-feeding option. Sometimes they just need a jump-start and that can do it. And, too, there is prednisone. One vet told me cats can handle a daily dose of up to 1.5 mg of pred per pound of body weight. Pred has many side effects, one of which is to stimulate the appetite. The bad side effects generally take a long time to show up, so if Tut's life expectancy is not great, there is likely no harm in trying it. Best of luck to both of you. Cary ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:26:45 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Suggestions for Tut Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Beth, I am going to keep Ariel on the program for at least 8 wks. While Thomas, the cat that had such good luck with this got his ImmunoRegulin IV, Ariel is getting hers under the skin, so I am going for two more weeks. He got his for 6 wks. I just weighed Ariel and tho I call her my "wee cat", she is a nice plump 9 and half pounds. She has face that gives her that perpetual kitten look. While she has not been ill, I have noticed that she is more active, playing more and being a stinker! I ashamed to say I don't know a lot about DMG, so I can't compare it with thymus hormone, but I would think the thymus hormone would be in a class kind of by itself. It's not an immune system booster, it's a part of the immune system itself. That's why it's given in conjunction with the boosters. I wish I could tell you more about how they work together, but I just don't know. Ariel will be retested sometime in the fall, October maybe. All I can do is wait. She has previously tested positive twice on the Elisa, about a year apart. barb ---------------------------------------- From: "zimmerman" To: "felvtalk" Subject: Re: nutrition for Smokina Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:27:54 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Deborah, There's good info on nutrition on the FeLV Project Information Sheet www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/8025/felvfaq.htm . My cat had a URI in Dec.& then for 3 months his nose & eyes continued to run & antibiotics didn't help. My x vet just gave up on him & when I took him to my current vet I found out JACKSON was FeLV+. I started ImmunoRegulin Protocol A on 3/31 & have seen much improvement. I also gave him interferon from May to 7/23. I stopped the interferon because JACKSON is now healthy except for sneezing (and the infection *smell*). There's some info you may find helpful @ http://web.ukonline.co.uk/fab/is38.html about chronic nasal discharge (aka snot :). I'm still getting him a ImmunoRegulin IV every 4 weeks & I'll start the interferon again when he gets sick. I put Prozyme on the dry food & he gets a small amount of canned cat food treat with Pet-Tinic, DMG, Antiox (an antioxidant), Barley Cat, & Co Q10. The Information Sheet has info on Pet-Tinic, DMG, & antioxidants. The Barley Cat is just to add a little vits. & the Co Q10 along with brushing his teeth is to help keep his gums healthy because FeLV+ cats are prone to gum disease. Welcome to the list - and yes, we do love our cats very much, too. Beth ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:27:34 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Suggestions for Tut Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Beth, I forgot, cats under a year don't need to take the thymus hormone because theirs is still functioning. barb ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:42:13 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: New to the list Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Kelly, Welcome to the list. I guess the first thing you need to do is sit down and make a plan of action for Clovis. First, is to treat the infection that is giving him his temp, which you are doing. Once that is under control, you might want to have some blood drawn and have some studies done. A complete Blood count, liver and kidney function tests. Then you have an idea of where you stand. From there you can work out what kinds of treatments you might want to try. There are many different things you can try. Nutrition is a must, vitamins. There is ImmunoRegulin, Interferon, a combination of both with other immune system boosters. You will need to know if Clovis is anemic. You can do this by peaking in his mouth, is a a nice pink or pale white? This is also a good time to check his gums. Gum and mouth problems are very common in FeLV cats. It is good he is 5 with no previous health problems. Stats show that once a cat makes 5 years, they might be carriers and never actually die of the disease, that's if they were infected as kittens. Most infected as kittens don't survive the first year. So there is always hope and we are here and we have been or are where you are so we understand. barb ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:52:29 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: "Melody" the Music Store Cat Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Betty, Welcome to the list. Melody sounds like such a beauty! It is not uncommon for a cat to have one or more the "big three". Feline Leukemia, Feline Aids, or Feline Infectious Peritonitis. The worst is the last, the FIP. This is just a side note, but you may not want to mention to your customers she has AIDS. Tho there is no way it is transfered to humans, people sometimes get some strange ideas about AIDS. First get some blood work done to see where you are at. Complete blood count, liver and kidney function. Good food and vitamins. Once you know how her blood work comes out, we can go from there. barb ---------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:25:51 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Re: Tut update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Nan I agree with everything that Angela has said. When we lost our Rubin in May it was such a tough decision. But we knew the time had come. For 2 weeks before he passed away, my heart and gut used to wrench everytime I saw him get up to just go to the litter box or drink water. Poor thing would fall over and just about able to move himself around. He could not even shake his head with out falling over. I used to cry watching him. I had many long talks with him and told him it was okay to give up, to let go, to not fight anymore. The day we went to the vets I sat in the truck with him balling my eyes out. I was hoping for that miracle cure. But, you know after I never thought I would of felt it, but I felt peace for him, peace knowing that I made the right decision. Peace in knowing my boy was no longer suffering, fighting to stay alive for me. I actualy felt better after his death than the weks prior to his death. Do not get me wrong, I miss him terribly, but I know in my heart he is in a much better place no longer suffering. The decision is yours to make only. Our vet told us you know when their bad days outnumber their good days. When he first got sick, we did not think he would pull thru, but within 6 months we saw drastic improvemnets, and we had him 5 years after. That is the thing with this disease, it is a roller coaster I know how hard of a decision it is to say okay it is time to stop. I wish you the best of luck Gina ---------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:40:28 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: New to the list Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Kelly Welcome to the list. My Rubin tested postive when he was five years old, with the same symptoms as you describe that your Clovis has. Except he was indoor & outdoor cat. He live to be 12 years old. He was resricted to the indoors, and his diet was changed to a high protein diet. At that time Iams dry was recomeded. He was also taken off all wet food as well. And he was resrticted indoors, I know yours is already indoors. The biggest thing I found was living stress free! Stress agravates the Felv. The thing to look for in a clinic is to make sure they are willing to treat and fight this disease. There are so many treatments out there. My vet used chemotherapy on Rubin, and he responded really well to it. You will find loads of info on this list as well as the web site Barb mentioned. I will not lie, it is expensive to fight this disease. Although we could not afford it, we did not care, we wanted to give Rubin everything that he gave us. And it was worth every penny we spent to know we had that time with him. Gina ---------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:45:07 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Molly Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Cary That is wonderful news about Molly. Keep us posted Gina ---------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:54:38 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: "Melody" the Music Store Cat Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Betty I am not sure if I am correct, I am only going by what our vet told us. But our Rubin (rip 5-26-98) once tested postive for both FeLv and Aids when he was 5 years old. At that time (7 years ago) the vet said that there was no way he could be both FeLv and Aids that that does not happen they are either one or the other. She did a restest a few months latter sent it to Cornell Universtiy and it was then determined that he was just FeLv. And Welcome to the list. Gina ---------------------------------------- END