Sunday August 9, 1998 17 Messages ======================================== Date sent: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 11:21:55 +0100 From: "Sonja Lnders" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Nutrical Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Marilyn and all, I ran to check my list of ingredients and did NOT find the toxic stuff, (at least not under that name), and I checked in all the translated languages! So much for my wanting to make a contribution to the list knowledge................... Sonja ---------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 07:26:34 -0600 Subject: Re: Strains of FeLV and other info To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Thanks, Jim. It is an honor! I read the article and have copied it off, but I have to say I was again disheartened by the info. At least I have the facts now. I thought the FeLV virus was more fragile (outside the body) then the article suggests. Anyway, Kudos to you and your efforts to keep the information available. Susan ---------------------------------------- From: "Claude Horstmann" To: Subject: Re: Nutrical Date sent: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:47:19 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Sonja, you made a wonderful point for the Nutrical information- the Nutrical that you are using is from the European manufacturer and does NOT contain the preservative benzoate sod- and at least supports our contention that the ingredients are all safer in the Nutrical produced overseas. We here in the states have got to be as vigilant... I'd really like to know how we can get the offending *sod benzoate* OUT of the Nutrical made here, until we do, tho- people are being urged to read labels- LIKE YOU ARE :-)........ this has been my *holy grail*, I relied heavily on the Nutrical, and was shocked and angry when I learned about the poss of toxicity due to a preservative that adds to the shelf-life of Nutrical, but may not be adding to my cat's life..... the Nutrical you have, is safe ! but you too can teach other cat lovers what to look for, and what to avoid.. peace & light, ..marilyn.. ---------------------------------------- From: "Claude Horstmann" To: Subject: Fw: Hippocrates Date sent: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 11:22:11 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net -----Original Message----- From: Claude Horstmann To: steve lacklow Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 2:47 PM Subject: Hippocrates Scientific Method.. * leave nothing to chance overlook nothing combine contradictory observations allow yourself enough time * He was willing to admit his limitations, he stressed honesty, he betrayed no embarrassment in confiding to posterity that half his patients were killed by the diseases he was treating ! Can we offer less ? Help take us out of the dark ages of FeLV. Pick battles big enough to matter, and small enough to win. Jim, this is part of a letter that I sent to Steve, to try and convince him to return to the list- but I think it belongs here now, I thank you for providing the list. We serve, teach, and inspire, and hopefully will see Cheesecake or Mousse in our lifetime, and we are surely extending the quality of life to our beloved stricken cats and kittens. You deserve a Virtual Hug for your work !! peace & light, .marilyn. In memory of Ariya Yin and Selena dearly loved~~~dearly missed ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:30:03 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Strains of FeLV and other info Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Jim, That is quite an honor to be linked to a University web site. I'm sure they looked it over very good and decided we were not a bunch of loons! good job! barb ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 21:41:56 +0100 From: "Sonja Lnders" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Nutrical Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Marilyn, Thank you so muchfor your kind words, there is so much to learn.... I had no idea about benzoate sod, how did you find out it was toxic? Marilyn, I should sooo love to read the *scorcher* you sent to the mayor, would you mind forwaring it to me? I am always impressed by the way you word things, wishing I could have thought of it myself...... Sonja ---------------------------------------- From: "Claude Horstmann" To: Subject: Fw: congrats ! Date sent: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:56:08 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net barb..... we ARE loons ! this is the congrat I sent to our webmeister, til cheesecake ! .amrilyn ---------------------------------------- From: "James G. Wilson" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 23:05:42 +0000 Subject: (Fwd) RE: Ester C Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:44:57 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: RE: Ester C Debby, I think the ascorbic acid is the culprit that can give diarrhea, moreso than the sodium ascorbate. But in answer to your question, no--he doesn't get diarrhea. Other than Hershey's sneeze-ums, is he still symptom free? nancy ---------------------------------------- From: "George & Nancy" To: "Felv" Subject: Tut update Date sent: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:52:41 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Well, I've been trying evrything and I won't give up. However, Tut is not doing well. He has only been eating every other day. He is loosing weight. He's still anemic and has a constant low grade temp. He is not in pain and does not seem to be suffering so we're taking it day by day. I feel so helpless!!! My baby is dying and I can't do anything to stop it !!!!!!!!!! This is breaking my heart ! I tried to prepare myself but I can't. I just don't know what to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nan ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 23:21:22 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Angela Holderby Subject: Re: Tut update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Nan, I must say I have felt like I am doing a better job at lurking than Larry has recently. I have been very busy, but I wanted to take time to write to you.... As many of you know, I loved my precious Lefty to sleep one last time on July 7 of this year. I say that because as he fell asleep and finally escaped this miserable disease...I was loving on him, petting him, talking to him....I am so very glad I was able to do that. Well, we also experienced the exact same things you describe about your sweetie little Tut. I know the hell you are going through. I have been there. No, even though you know what is ahead eventually--all of us dealing with this do--you are never prepared for it...but I want to tell you that at least for me, the pain and heart-ache of letting go is not as bad as the gut-wrenching agony you are going through right now watching him suffer. PLEASE DON'T ANYBODY MIS-UNDERSTAND THIS!!!! I am not saying to give up...your Tut may have a LONG LONG time left...I have no idea what his future holds. Only YOU can decide when to let go. What I am trying to say is that many of us know that helpless, heart-ache that you feel when you realize that you can do everything in your power and you are not able to stop this. What I want you to understand is that it has to be one day at a time with this thing. Don't think about tomorrow or the next day...just deal with it one day at a time. And don't do as I did and make yourself sick with the dread of the pain of losing him....just know that when it happens, yes, it hurts, but the suffering we endure watching them slowly die either toughens us or prepares us, or is so intense that the end doesn't seem quite as horrible as we imagine...that was my experience. I was heart-broken when I had to make THE DECISION....but afterward, in my sorrow and grief, I also found peace. Peace in knowing I had done everything I could, and peace in knowing that HE KNEW I did everything I could. And I truly believe my Lefty knew that... This may just sound like incoherent rambling, but I just wanted you to know that...it doesn't get much worse than watching the suffering so don't sit around and make yourself even more miserable--as I did--by worrying about what is next....live for today...I have learned with this disease, that is all we really have. Things can change in a heart-beat. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. Angela (and Poncho & Jodi) ---------------------------------------- From: "Claude Horstmann" To: Subject: Re: Tut update Date sent: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 23:24:03 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Oh Nan, You have made a commitment to cherish Tut,-- if you can get some food syringed into him--- ? I myself used the chicken broth recipe, and A/D food- and cheerfully but firmly fed Selena with a feeding syringe.. consider the possibility of Prednisone if you're not already using a lo-dose..? and I don't have to tell you that everything gets worse under pressure. ? my heart goes out to you both.. peace & light, ..marilyn.. ---------------------------------------- From: "zimmerman" To: "felvtalk" Subject: Re: Tut update Date sent: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 23:35:39 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hey Nan, Did you get some Pet-Tinic & a second opinion about a blood transfusion? An injection of Vit. B is often effective to increase appetite. We all wish there was someway to stop it, but all we can do is slow it down. If Tut isn't suffering it's OK to keep trying. Beth ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:49:17 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Talk: Strict Unbending Rules for dealing with Stray Cats-long Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Selena, So funny . . . and so true! Nancy ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:53:02 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Strains of FeLV and other info Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net James, Our hats of to you! Having originated from Wisconsin, I can honestly say, they're aware of the value you have to offer. Nancy ---------------------------------------- From: "Claude Horstmann" To: Subject: Fw: Selena- Empathy Trainer Date sent: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 23:55:29 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Dear Nan, This was my posting on the day that Selena- while in my arms- was given safe transport out of the sorrow and the sadness that accompany end stage FeLV, complicated by FIP. We do know the pain that you are suffering, and the hard choices that we as *parental-units* have to make. Hope these memorial words help you through the night, even if crying seems to be the only thing that you can do. Comes the dawn.... ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 23:01:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: Felv Subject: Re: Tut update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Nan, (and George), I am so sorry to hear this. Have you considered trying prednisone? It can save a life and once stabilized, can be tapered down. I know how hard it is to see a beloved friend go downhill and be afraid of losing him. If there's anything I can do, please let me know. Hang in there. Nancy ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 23:59:32 -0500 From: Gabriela Mendez Perez Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services To: "felvtalk@MailingList.net" Subject: Re: Tut update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Nan-- Only you know the right steps to take for Tut, but you can get him to eat even if it means force-feeding him yourself with a syringe. I had to do this with Wolfie, and often I was stunned by how well he responded after a day or so of my doing that. You must be careful, and you must be gentle, but you can put some food into him and he can feel better. Try one of those larger syringes with the flexible plastic tip that is really long and can fit comfortably in his mouth. This particular tip is a little softer than most and doesn't seem to bother the kitties as much as the usual hard tip ones. But the hard tip ones are okay too. Just use what you've got or can get your hands on. The chicken broth is a good start, and the Hill's AD canned stuff can easily be slurped up in the syringe, although you may have to mix a little water or broth in with it to do that. I never had to, with that slightly larger syringe,but I notice others have. The hardest thing for me was that I had to ignore Wolfie's unwillingness to eat and FORCE him to do so by putting the syringe in his mouth and giving him a little bit at a time, even if he was scratching me to bits while I did it. But I did it whenever I needed to, and he was with me a lot longer because of that. Whatever you choose to do, please remember that you're not alone. We're all here with you, and you can vent to your heart's content, anything it takes to keep you going and sane. And I promise--you CAN get through this. I know you can. Our best to Tut and to you, and please keep us posted. Abrazos y besos (hugs and kisses)-- Gabby and los gatos fregados (the darn cats!) Bello Grigio, Penelope, Agata, Garbanzo, Moby and Paloma (and, in absentia, Berenice, Squeaky, Wolfie, and Fu Manchas) ---------------------------------------- END