Friday July 24, 1998 Part 3 20 Messages ======================================== Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:05:04 -0700 (PDT) From: diana@wetware.com (CatWoman ) To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Re: KV Vet Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Heh. After 2+ years of SubCu fluids, and another year of insulin - it's not the needle that bothers me! Actually - I would do it except for two things - One: it's only me. In order to put the shots in the correct areas you'd need another person to make sure the cat isn't moving. Which brings me to two: Because of the injection-site sarcoma problem, vets are trying to gather statistics on injections and sarcoma. So not only do you have to remember once a year which vaccine goes where (as opposed to the vet who does it daily, so it becomes routine), the statistics are not being gathered. I could *send* them to my vet, but it's not quite the same as her doing it herself, where she is sure that what she has documentation of actually was what took place. I'd love to do enough vet-tech training to be able to *draw* blood. But my hands are too creaky, and again, it's only me. But think of the money saved on the FeLV tests! Or Glucose tests! Diana ---------------------------------------- From: "Moermond, Barbara" To: "'felvtalk@MailingList.net'" Subject: RE: Ringo Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:09:57 -0500 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net He's adorable!!! Barb+Ninja ---------------------------------------- From: "Moermond, Barbara" To: "'felvtalk@MailingList.net'" Subject: RE: Hershey's retest update - NOT good news.... Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:11:00 -0500 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hang in there Debby, we're all here for you. Barb+Ninja ---------------------------------------- From: "RDC" To: Subject: Re: Baypamun in USA Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:15:45 +0200 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I guess no country is as careful with imports and almost overworried about health risks than Germany - as far as I know, we have endless lists of laws to protect the pureness of beer, sausages etc. Bayer, by the way, is a German company, not a British. The chance that Baypamun will spread the Mad Cow Disease all over the World is zero. Nevertheless, once such a statement as the above is set, it is all that everyone will look at. My Charlie went negative with Baypamun in 1991, turned from a constantly ill cat to a healthy one and had more than five happy years before he developed his kidney ailment in late 1996. But I feel like an old grammophone, mentioning this again. RDC http://www.corax.com/feline/leukemia.html ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:19:04 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: three ring circuits Subject: RE: Hershey Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net thanks guys! I'm still trying to digest this all but meanwhile... keep thinking it's got to be a mistake! I mean.. how on earth could Hershey LOOK so good and ACT so normally if his titer is so high? I just don't get it. I'll be here but probably quiet for a while as I try to re-group and thanks for giving a Type A personality permission to NOT be a "happy camper" LOL! > Debby, & the HBG (the HairballGang) ---------------------------------------- From: "Moermond, Barbara" To: "'felvtalk@MailingList.net'" Subject: RE: Hi all! Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:23:17 -0500 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Congratulations Naomi and Oyster!! Sending good vibes for the re-testing...... Barb+Ninja ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:31:13 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: three ring circuits Subject: Re: Hershey's retest update - NOT good news.... Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net thanks Naomi. All this support means so much to me now. I'm short circuiting here now and trying to figure out if it really COULD be and HOW?!? > > > Debby, & the HBG (the HairballGang) ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:37:47 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: three ring circuits Subject: RE: Hershey's retest update - NOT good news.... Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net thanks..... it DOES mean a lot to me .... I just need a HUG about now ;-) Debby, & the HBG (the HairballGang) ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:50:23 +0100 From: CatWoman To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Okay - keep some vibes this direction... Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I had one of those gut-level certainty feelings today that if I didn't get Mama Cat *NOW* I wouldn't see her again. Last time I didn't act on a feeling - the cat died (long story). So - I grabbed her. I dont' really have an isolation area yet, so she's in my "spare room" - an intermediate vari-kennel. She's not happy, not for being brought in, but for not being allowed *out*, to explore and sit on my lap. She lost her feral manual somewhere in the last year. I was even able to clip her front claws with not even a wiggle. I'm going to try to find a vaccine clinic this weekend, and get her an FeLV booster shot - it's not due until November, but just in case... So keep fingers crossed that all are negative, and stay that way! Diana ---------------------------------------- From: "zimmerman" To: "felvtalk" Subject: Vet visit + antihistamines Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 14:20:11 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I took JACKSON to the vet today for his regular Ireg. IV & I asked him if I should cut back the Pet-tinic because JACKSON is so fat. He said 1cc twice daily was OK & the only concern about his weight (he kind of looks pregnant)(JACKSON, not the vet) would be a tumor. The vet checked him & didn't feel any, but said sometimes he can't tell. That kind of scared me, but if JACKSON has a tumor I doubt he would be so healthy. Also, I tried 12.5mg Benadryl twice daily for 21 days & didn't see enough improvement to continue. (JACKSON is healthy, but continuously snotty) I checked Benadryl liquid, but it had sodium benzoate in it, so I used the tablets. Beth ---------------------------------------- From: "Equinox Corp." To: "'felvtalk@MailingList.net'" Subject: RE: Baypamun in USA Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:21:15 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Dear Rena, As I said in an earlier post of mine, who can explain the politics of health care in the USA? It's been a mystery to me all this time that I have lived here. Did you see my post re: Dr. Kiel the new vet in Bellingham where Beatrice & I live. He had lived inAusberg, Germany & thinks very highly of the science that goes into German medicine/drugs. He's been reading up on Baypamun & in his opinion there's no hard evidence that proves r/ship between Mad Cow disease & Baypamun. It appears to be wholly unfounded & a horrible fallacy which contributes to the deaths of most of our friends & babies because so long as statements as such are repeated & spread around it supprts FDA's position on Baypamun & keeps it away from those of us who're only asking for a chance/choice that we don't have right now. The part that really bothers me is if indeed there's direct scientific evidence that Baypamun is linked w/Mad Cow disease, Where is that evidence,studies, whatever. Let's see it. All the best, Saliha ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:22:52 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: FeLV Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Saliha, I have heard the IFA is fairly reliable. It is the ELISA that is not. But even a biopsy or bone marrow can give you a wrong answer if the sample doesn't happen to be taken from an affected site. If they take a biopsy from my liver and my cancer was in my stomach, it would appear as tho I have no cancer. Medicine is not an exact science, sometimes it is hit and miss. I know that sounds like you never know for sure, but usually they hit the right place and you know, but......barb ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:40:36 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Baypamun in USA Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net All, Rena from Germany is absolutely right. It was Gr. Brit. that had the mad cow problem. It was never in Germany, where the drug is made. And the odds of any transfer of that disease are so minute I can't count that low. When the "Plague" hit my home, two years ago, I wrote to Bayer's American office in Kansas and asked if my cats could be part of their research. They declined, of course, and said "research continues." I still have that letter, if I can just remember where I put it. I can tell you, fear of mad cow disease has nothing to do with this. It comes down to money folks. To get a drug, any drug, even those for animals costs millions and millions of dollars. Not just in research, but sadly, to grease the palms of the wonderful members of our dear elected officials who oversee the FDA. (Last I heard, Kennedy was one of them) At this point, I must say that is just what I have heard, from two sources, fairly close to the matter. Large contributions to their campaign funds assure that the right buttons are pushed to get a drug on the market. Don't give, your drug will most likely rot. My guess would be, that Bayer feels the vast investment needed to get Baypamun on the market here, would cause them considerable financial loss and theyfore are just not that anxious to sink the necessary funds into it. Money does indeed run the world. Go to your grocery store. See the items grandly displayed? See those that are on the bottom? The ones on top, in plain view are there because the manufacturer PAYS a fee to the store chain, lots of money, to see to it their product gets the choice spots. Don't pay, and your product is next to the dog food and cat litter. I'm not sure what we can do about this. Even if every one of us wrote letters, it would not be enough to make them think there is money in the drug. Perhaps, if we got every cat list, cat club, cat fancier, vet, owner and breeder to write, maybe. But that would be a huge job. Sounds like something we usually get ourselves into! I will try and find the address and the Dr. in charge of the research and everyone fan out and notify every human owned by a cat to stand ready. barb ---------------------------------------- From: meowmama@bellsouth.net Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 14:49:52 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Vet visit + antihistamines Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Beth, Have you tried Chlorpheniramine tabs? My vet prescribed them for Smokey who was constantly "stuffy" and a couple of 1/2 4mg tabs cleared it up right then. I use just a couple when he gets so stuffy and it keeps working right away. Just a thought! Hugs, ---------------------------------------- From: "Equinox Corp." To: "'felvtalk@MailingList.net'" Subject: RE: Baypamun in USA Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:54:31 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Angela, Gorgeous vet? Please post his photo ASAP then tell him (not necessarily in this order) that Baypamun is effective 80%. According to my vet , Dr. Kiel who's ungorgeous but unbelievable (owns 5 cats& cooks for them), there's some veterinay info network thru he can read up on Baypamun. But don't be disappointed if he comes back to you & tells you that Baypamun was developed to combat Upper Respitory problems in large animals,i.e horses,cows. That is a true statement. Baypamun was not developed to treat Felv. But some very smart lady vet in Munich, Germany put two& two together& & began using it on Felv+ cats. I believe she also did her Ph.D thesis on Baypamun for whoich my vet Dr. Kiel asked me to find it for him. I think finding her dissertation won't be so difficult. But reading it in German will be very difficult. May have to get it translated. Saliha ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:59:11 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Baypamun in USA Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Saliha, I think Rena has that theies you are looking for? Got it Rena? Can you translate for us? barb ---------------------------------------- From: viper102@uswest.net Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:08:09 -0700 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: ringo Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Wow I thought he was just washing himself. I never thought about the itching part. Thanks ---------------------------------------- From: "zimmerman" To: "felvtalk" Subject: Re: Re: Vet visit + antihistamines Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:13:44 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Thanks Kathy, I might try that later. JACKSON isn't stuffed up, his nose just runs a little. It's probably because he has some permanent damage, but I tried the Benadryl to see if it would help. The antioxidant from grape seed extract I'm going to get says it's a natural antihistamine so maybe that will help. Beth ---------------------------------------- From: "Equinox Corp." To: "'felvtalk@MailingList.net'" Subject: RE: FeLV Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:34:59 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Pam, I' not sure to whom your post was meant for, but last Friday when I asked Dr. Kiel to screen Beatrice's bon marrow for Felv, he said the Golden Standart" is to do a biopsy. He said IFA isn't very reliable & often gives false readings. I'd been just so worried about her lately & finally took her in to Dr. Kiel's for a complete check up & complete blood panel work. Beatrice passed all her tests w great results. No anemia, weighs 8.5 pounds, her liver& kidneys working just fine. All her % were where they were supposed to be. But what made me deliriously happy was the presence of lots of fresh white cells indicating bone marrow function. Can you imagine how i felt when I heard all this? You know how quickly things can change w/ this disease but oh, such respite for me from anxiety & gloom!!! Saliha ---------------------------------------- From: "James G. Wilson" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:36:11 +0000 Subject: Re: Baypumun in USA Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, Given the present and potential level of corruption within our system of government (FDA, USDA, congress, etc) that you cited in an earlier post (including Republicans and Democrats alike), unscrupulous folks could easily save money by fudging such tests (or not perform them at all and just say they did). Since baypamun is cultured on the bovine kidney protein, I don't think such materials could be easily synthesized. Plus, it would only contribute to the money well to try to develop such a technique. Add to that the fact that so little is known about MCD (no cures, no vaccines, etc.) and you have the makings of some MAJOR lawsuits. Remember, drugs such as this would be consumed by humans as well as pets, so the controls and restrictions in place are nearly insurmountable given all of the above realities. I am not trying to advocate for keeping Baypamun off the market in this country, I am only trying to provide balance as to why it is not already on the market. If greed alone ruled this controversy, I'm sure that a major corporation such as Bayer could easily accommodate such pandering- especially if Baypamun is as successful as claimed. Well, those are my thoughts on the situation. Take care, and best wishes. In loving memory of Vyvyan: March 20, 1988 - August 15, 1997 James G. Wilson- phaedrus@npwt.net http://www.angelfire.com/il/felv/ http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/8025/ http://www.fortunecity.com//skyscraper/sterling/20/niu.html ---------------------------------------- END