Wednesday July 22, 1998 Part 2 19 Messages ======================================== From: EchoSynch@aol.com Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:23:29 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Holistic? Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Susan, Thanks for you rmessage. I will be sure to let you know my thoughts on the Anderson book. My main reason for getting it...one of the few places I found that offers hope for what I'm dealing with. Here is a quote from page 18: "I am Pervis the Cat and I'm five years old. When i was one and a half years old, the vet told my owner, Mike, that I'd come down with feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). I had constant diarrhea and vomitting and was down to four pounds. The vet suggested I be put to sleep. (I thought I was too young to die!) "My owner thought there must be an answer so he tried 5cc of liquid Kyolic aged garlic extract every two hours five times a day. In four weeks I'd gained my weight back and was playing with the other cats. Mike took me back to the vet and was he amazed. He had never seen or heard of any cat that had survived FIP. I'm happy to say, I'm still in perfect health." --Pervis the Cat, California Also there are success stories with FeLV+ listed. I will excerpt them here, and if anyone would like the passage, I'd be glad to share more: page 47 - NUPRO helps with feline leukemia (live enzymes and amino acids) page 163 - IsoSproutPlex developed to combat devastating effects of feline leukemia - super antioxidant Thanks again, Susan. Best Thoughts to your whisker delights, Randall & Tails (& Sylvester & Smokey Bear & Midnight) ---------------------------------------- From: EchoSynch@aol.com Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:25:54 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Howling Kitty Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Arlene, What an adorable sight to hear about! Bless you. Randall & Tails ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:25:25 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Angela Holderby Subject: Re: Vet Update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Must just be an 'acquired' taste or something. Lefty didn't mind the Pet-tinic at all. I didn't even have to pick him up. When I held the syringe behind his long 'canine' tooth, he just swallowed and we were done with it. Poncho doesn't fight either--although I do have to pick her up and cradle her in one arm while I give it to her. I am just REALLY glad Jodi doesn't need this stuff because she's big enough to kick my butt! She proved that Monday.... Luck to you Sonja--sounds like you are giving it the only way you can. Angela. ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:29:09 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Howling Kitty Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Arlene, What great news. Only people with felv positive cats would say mouth abcesses are good news. Sometimes we are so caught up in the fact they have it, we don't see the forest for the trees. So glad you and your vet found this tree! He will be feeling better in no time. barb ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:35:05 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Angela Holderby Subject: Re: Vet update & Immunoregulin Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Boy, is this one true! When you meet a vet who says they are willing to try whatever you want to try or in my case one that says "I am so excited about learning more about this cat's case!"--YOU HAVE A KEEPER! I know there is so much more we have to learn, but I think it is wonderful to look at the people on this list all over the world who are educating vets. I personally am doing everything I possibly can to make sure my vets have the latest information on the treatments being used in this list. I went through three different vets before I found one that was willing to learn, but I am thankful I kept looking. As for the Immunoregulin. Lefty also hated to go to the vet, but I thought the benefits of the drug outweighed his discomfort. He eventually got to the point that he tolerated it and learned that as soon as it was over, he could have lots of love and we would feel sorry for him all evening. Now that he is gone (2 weeks yesterday), I am glad I took him. I fear I would have lived in "WHAT IF...." land for a long time had I not done everything I felt I could for him. I have no regrets. I tried, it worked for awhile and hopefully, others will benefit from what was learned through his battle. Randall, you will just have to read all of our various opinons and decide for yourself. You do what makes you comfortable and it will bring you peace. Best of luck and sorry for not welcoming you sooner. I have barely had time lately to even skim messages. I didn't realize how absorbed I had become with Lefty. I had left so many areas of my life unattended to while he was sick. I miss him and am sorry he is gone, but I am relieved also. It can be very stressful living with this horrible thing--especially when you are pretty much alone in your feelings...present company excepted, of course! Angela (and Poncho & Jodi) ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:50:53 +0100 From: "Sonja Lnders" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Vet Update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Randall, No, it is Pet-Tinic from USA, which Marilyn kindly sent to Schurli. I must add that he is a very shy cat, more happy with other cats than humans, of which he can only tolerate one at a time! I can only treat him when he comes into my kitchen when hungry (or when he was so ill he didn't care), at other times he is wary of being approached. (he must have had a feral kittenhood, a stray I was feeding regularly brought him along in Feb '96, half starved, and it took him 2 months to dare enter my house) So I must be careful not to put him off, as I want to give him more shots later! Sonja ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:54:54 -0500 From: Gabriela Mendez Perez Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: RE: PetTinic and Immunoregulin Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Randall-- I use PetTinic quite regularly with my cats, and I have found that they don't get too upset when they have to take it (er, actually I mean that they don't get any more upset about it than they do with other drugs given by mouth). The one I use smells kind of livery, and they apparently do like the taste, as they lick their lips when I dose them, and sometimes will lick the end of the syringe. None of them, however, will just lick it up from a spoon or anything easy like that. Perish the thought! About the Immunoregulin--when Wolfie was on a course of that, the hardest part of it was getting him to the vet without stressing him out too much. After a few doses, though, he was pretty understanding. I wish there was some way we could give them the Immunoregulin ourselves, but I don't know of any. When Wolfie got his shots, it took two people to do it, one to hold him firmly, and the other to do the shot itself. He wasn't a bad kitty or anything; the vet just said it would be easier that way. I was really fortunate that the vet tech who usually did the holding down was a real love and always made Wolfie feel very at ease. Hope Tails is still gaining weight and doing better. Our best to you both-- Gabby and los gatos fregados ---------------------------------------- From: "Claude Horstmann" To: Subject: Re: Vet Update Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:11:13 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Sonja, Selena didn't like the taste of the pet-tinic either, a rusty iron taste (sure I tasted it) and so I didn't dilute it... that only increased the volume, but I did dilute it in a strong concentration of chicken broth, and squirted it in with a syringe... or adding it to pureed chicken and thinning it to a syringe consistency. ? .marilyn. ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:33:46 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Angela Holderby Subject: Re: Vet Update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I mixed Lefty's pet-tinic and his ambrotose together. He always ate dry food and I didn't know how else to give the ambrotose. I just made a paste and either put it on his leg to lick off or shoved the gummy ball of stuff in his mouth. He didn't seem to be to upset by that. When he was really sick he wouldn't lick it off his leg (he had quit grooming) so then I put it in his mouth. It mixes well with the ambrotose (better than water does). Just an idea..... Angela. ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:23:12 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Angela Holderby Subject: Re: Howling Kitty Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Arlene: Sorry to hear that Howling Kitty had such a bad tooth/mouth problem, but so glad it was something that could be fixed! I am so glad he is wanting to eat. We all love to see that in our kitties! And, as for the toilet paper....let them play! I learned to appreciate even the little destructive things Lefty did when he was living on 'borrowed time'. So glad things are looking up for all of you! Best wishes to you and the Howling Kitty... Angela (and Poncho & Jodi) ---------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:05:48 -0600 Subject: re: Holistic? To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi, Randall, I have the Frazier and the Pitcairn books--both excellent resources. Don't know about the Anderson book, but I'd like to hear what you have to say about it after you've had a chance to review it. I think you've got more than enough to keep you busy w/ those two books. I read about that sports water in Pat mcKay's _Reigning Cats & Dogs_ (also a good book for natural animal care, mainly nutrition). That sports water sounds like wonderful stuff w/ all those electrolytes in it. I've just started putting trace minerals w/ electrolytes in the cats' food this week. As for the holistic vet, just as w/ allopathic vets, it depends on the vet, and you won't know until you go and talk to him/her. I have just recently gotten into holistic methods, so others here can give you more informed advice on the front. Susan (I'm currently also on the holisticat mailing list, so I know what you mean about getting an overload of options and information.) ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:03:58 -0700 From: Robert Frank Organization: A.R.F., Inc. To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Howling Kitty Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Randall and Tails: Thanks for the heads up! Arlene and Howling Kitty ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:14:49 -0700 From: Robert Frank Organization: A.R.F., Inc. To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Howling Kitty Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Dear barb: I had Howling Kitty to the internal medicine specialist today. It was an unbelievably exhausting trip for us both. (Forty miles one way). But, we immediately found the cause of the drooling and bad breath. A couple of very special people on this list suggested tooth problems and or abcesses. Well they were right on both accounts. He had 2 abcesses on his upper mouth and throat. One of his teeth was so badly infected that it had to be aspirated. My poor baby. The positive news is he is already wanting to eat. I know he feels the world better but he'll have to wait until tomorrow for solid food. I would have had no idea where to look if it had not been for you guys. My heartfelt thanks. I have to finish this up. Howling Kitty and his housemated are playing with the toilet paper roll in the bathroom and soon it will all be in the floor. How blessed I am. Love you guys, Arlene and Howling Kitty ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:35:06 +0000 From: LawBet Subject: Re: Howling Kitty To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Organization: Home for Wayward Felines Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Arlene, That's what the folks on this list do best. They all have their own problems but never hesitate to offer help to others. Include yourself in this very unique group. You help others too. Glad that Howling Kitty's problem was such an easy one to fix. The Lurker ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:56:34 -0500 From: Gabriela Mendez Perez Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: RE: Immunoregulin and Interferon Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Randall-- I haven't any experience with a combination treatment regimen of Interferon and Immunoregulin. When my kitties were on those drugs, they were exclusively on one or the other. That, however, doesn't mean such a regimen is impossible. It just means that perhaps the vets I had weren't using the other drug or something similar. Moneywise, the Interferon was MUCH cheaper, and it was available in tabs and a liquid you could squirt in the kitty's mouth. So, no vets visits for weeks sometimes. The Immunoregulin, in contrast, was a vet's visit kind of thing, and I was fortunate that my vet didn't charge me for a regular visit when I just took Wolfie in for his shots. All told, I would say that putting Wolfie on Immunoregulin for the whole course of the treatment cost about...ummmm....$250-300? That doesn't include all the other drugs that he got during the same time period, stuff to combat his URI's and also the special food he was put on whenever he'd lose some weight or stop eating on his own. I'd say that by the time it was all said and done and Wolfie was no longer with me, his treatment was somewhere in the $500 range. I don't begrudge a penny of it, but if I had a choice between Interferon and Immunoregulin AND both drugs are meant to accomplish the same basic goal with similar efficiency, then I'd choose the Interferon for the ease of treatment and savings. That's only if there are no significant differences in the kitty's chances either way. If Immunoregulin is better, then obviously--expense be damned and full steam ahead. I do have financial limits (boy, do I ever!), but I'd do the most I could within those limits. Take care, and Tails is in our thoughts. You know, every day in which your kitty enjoys life by doing simple and normal things like lying on the patio and enjoying the fresh air is a day where you have accomplished everything you needed to. Gabby and los gatos fregados ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:59:03 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Vet Update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Randall, I have used Immunoregulin on two cats, the first was a cat with FELV. After 8 months I discontinued them at the advice of my then-vet. Greystoke was doing very well on them and the vet suggested we discontinue because "they" were not aware of long-term use and side effects. Three months later Greystoke developed a tumor and 4 months later, she died. I wished I would have continued and vowed I would not stop them again with another cat. I have had Jake on them for 9 months. They have worked wonders! He has FIV and I thought he would die last October. His RBC was 9, just above transfusion, he had protein in his blood, and his immunity was severely compromised. He showed improvement with Interferon but it was the Immunoregulin I believe that worked the miracle. The shots have been down to one a month for several months, and Jake, while not "looking forward" to going to the vet, I believe looks at it as a necessary evil, albeit routine. My sweet Panther who died in May of this year (also FIV) was not on Immunoregulin, a great regret of mine. I believe that had my vet paid a little more attention to my questions and observations about his health, she may have agreed to my suggestions of putting him on it; I believe it might have ssaved his life and he would still be with me. I am not vet-bashing, but I have learned the hard way to listen to my gut and if I feel strongly about something,*push* it on my vet or find one that will do or at least look into what I am saying. That's not to say Immunoregulin would be right for an FIP cat; I don't know that it would do a lot of good . . . but it boosts immunity, so I guess I would want to know what kind of effect it would have on FIP. In a nutshell, a former vet believes that my Angel (died in '93) died from the dry form of FIP. It was not as insidious as the wet form. Any insights or questions I can try to answer, please ask. This group has a wealth of experience and information. My best to TAILS and hang in there, Randall. Nancy ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:06:15 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: RE: PetTinic and Immunoregulin Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Gabby, I haven't read all my posts and perhaps someone else has already replied to this. Several including Lynn and I think maybe Barb (Newtanator) does use Immunoregulin subcut; that way they can do it themselves at home. I understand it does not have as good an effect as into a vein but it does help. Nancy ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:11:08 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Howling Kitty Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Arlene, I am so glad to hear this about Howling Kitty! And playing with toilet paper; he sounds so much better. How I admire you for your attempts this past weekend; they certainly paid off!!! You and Howling Kitty are an inspiration to us all! Nancy ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:12:44 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Holistic? Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Randall, That is an amazing story about the cat with FIP! If you find anything on FIV, please let me know when you have the chance. Nancy ---------------------------------------- END