Monday June 22, 1998 12 Messages ======================================== From: "Moermond, Barbara" To: "'felvtalk@mailinglist.net'" Subject: Ninja's weekend; valium&liver toxicity Date sent: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:56:15 -0500 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hello everybody! Well, we got through the weekend without any more seizures, but I found some diarrhea when I got home Friday. Unfortunately, NOT in the box. Poor kid. I had mentioned liver toxicity in relation to oral valium on Friday afternoon and Gina had told me that Rubin had been on it for about a year with no liver problems. I talked to my vet again and she said that it is a very rare problem, but that her clinic took part in a study and while they don't know which kitties will be affected by it, 2 out of 3 who got sick, died. So. She keeps old patients who aren't having any problems on the oral valium, but with new patients, she will go with another medicine, like phenobarbital, instead. I am taking Ninja in on Friday to check her liver function after a week on the phenobarbital. I'm sure she will like that But, I've worked out a better way to pill her. Since I have to give her 2 different pills twice a day, I crush them and add some water and some baby food and use a syringe. That way, she gets all her medicine in one shot and it doesn't entirely taste bad. Of course, she still gets her treats afterwards. She was feeling good yesterday and we played a lot last night!! That was wonderful to see her so chipper. She's been pretty talkative too. :):) The leukemia rollercoaster is on a rise at the moment. Barb+Ninja ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:45:38 -0400 From: Selena Walker To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: FeLV+ and FeLV- together (long) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Dear Angela, Here is the response I originally sent to Ann in response to a similar question that she posted. My opinion remains essentially the same --with one major exception--I might now consider adding FeLV- cats to a FeLv+ household based on the information/opinions provided on this list and based on the fact that there actually seems to be some evidence of effective or partially effective treatmen(s). When I originally added FeLV- to my FeLV+ household treatment for the FeLV was not available and I did not know that the FeLV shots were only 85% (or there abouts) effective. My vet was more worried about introducing another FeLV+ cat to my household because he couldn't be sure that Zackie could fight off whatever syndromes would be attached to the disease process in another FeLV+ cat. He seemed certain that healthy cats (FeLV-) with their FeLV shots could fight off the syndromes and disease processes associated with Zackie. At least, that's my interpretation of the information provided to me almost 5 years ago now. In any case here is the repost: Dear Ann, and now Angela I'm not sure about putting Felv+ and Felv- cats together. This is probably something you should really sit down and discuss with your vet. From the literature I've read the Felv shots are 85% effective. Of course there are probably many variables which come into play for those cats for whom the shots are effective and for those for whom the shots were not effective. It will be difficult to determine whether your Felv- cats are within the 85% who will not contract Felv or whether they will be in the 15% who will. Having said that, you asked whether anyone had successfully placed felv- and felv+ cats together. I will share my experience with you. I adopted my only Felv+ cat (Zachie) in Sept. 1982 as a kitten roaming the streets early one morning. No owner was found and I kept him. In those days routine Felv testing and shots were not given. Within a year I had three additional cats (adopted as kittens from my neighbour) in my household (a small apartment). Cats shared food dishes, kittly litter, mutually groomed each other etc. I never had any suspicion that any of my cats harboured felv. At aged six (1988) Zachie came down with a skin ailment--the fur on his ears began flaking off in chunks. A quick run to the vet established that it was not a mite problem. A few months later it began to look like something terrible that would not go away and Zachie tested positive for felv. I brought my other cats in and they tested negative (twice, just to make sure). At that point my girls (2) had been with Zachie for just under six years. I did not isolate him, and they began their shots. Over the next six and a half years, Zachie developed many felv exacerbated conditions (chronic nail bet infections, FUS, a heart murmur, chronic skin condition). My girls remained healthy. During those six years, I also introduced two felv negative cats into the household (2 young males) and maintained them on yearly felv shots. Zachie was not isolated from them either. They too remained healthy. In 1994 Zachie passed away as a result of what was likely a massive coronary in his sleep. My girls who are currently fifteen years of age are felv negative. My boys who are now 4 and 6 are also felv negative. Since I no longer have a felv + cat there is no further danger. I think that I was very lucky that none of my cats contracted felv from Zachie. I have no idea whether Zachie was felv+ when I got him or whether he contracted it from other cats in the neighbourhood afterward. I do know that there was ample opportunity to have spread the disease and yet it somehow remained contained. If I knew then what I know now, I may have chosen another route to take. At the very least I probably would not have adopted the boys. I think you have to weigh the pros and cons, and decide for yourself what risk you are willing to take on behalf of your felv negative cats. It is not any easy decision to make, and I certainly don't envy you that. If you think about it very carefully and discuss it at nauseum with your vet, I'm sure you come to a decision that you and your cats can live with, no matter how painful. Sincerely Selena Walker swalker@rohcg.on.ca Stittsville (near Ottawa), Ontario, Canada in memory of Zachie, June 1982-Nov 1994 ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:38:19 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Angela Holderby Subject: Re: FeLV+ and FeLV- together (long) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Thank you so much. I apprecite the information. I am still waiting to see what is going to happen with Lefty. He seems to be staying about the same. I don't know if it is just hopefulness on my part, but his ears seem to be just a bit more 'pink' today and through all of this, he seems to be eating and drinking well and doesn't really 'act' sick. The only signs are the usual signals of anemia...licking at the cat litter that has fallen on the floor beside the box, licking the concrete floor in the basement--occasionally, not all the time, and the paleness in his gums. When he had his transfusion, his gums were completely white...this time, they are just pale pink.....I thought he would get bad really fast (as predicted by the vet who transfused him) but he seems to be holding steady right now...I am going to wait and see how he does before I make a decision to take Jodi...I also have to work on hubby...he will die if I try to get another cat...but then, I usually get what I want when it comes to my cats. ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:40:43 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Angela Holderby Subject: Re: Ninja's weekend; valium&liver toxicity Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net The leukemia rollercoaster is on a rise at >the moment. Well, I am sure I speak for all of the cat people on this list when I say I sincerely hope it is a very long pleasant upward ride! Angela. (and Poncho & Lefty) ---------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:48:59 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Ninja's weekend; valium&liver toxicity Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Lets keep praying for that upward rise in the rollercoaster Keep it up Ninja! Gina ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:25:53 -0700 (PDT) From: diana@wetware.com (CatWoman ) To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: FeLV+ and FeLV- together (long) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net One thing I remember from back many, *many* years ago when UC Davis was studying FeLV, FIV, FIA, and the rest before the vaccine came out - they found that some cats are naturally immune to FeLV. I remember the NCPS newsletter posting that UC Davis had some FeLV immune cats available for adoption to people who wanted companion cats for their FeLV positives. I have not had any of my (previously) negative cats retested in about a year - and only one tested a year ago. Aside from the kittens' bouts with Anterior Uveitis, the rest have remained healthy. When Princess finds a new home, or if she dies, I will wait the recommended 3 months and retest the rest. However, since they have all been together for a year now (except for Princess), I will probably not make any effort to isolate any who test positive. I will probably not bring any other cats into my house until this lot have all died, however, if any test positive (or at least until the any remaining cats have tested negative for a year). IMHO... Diana ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:33:35 -0700 (PDT) From: diana@wetware.com (CatWoman ) To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Ninja's weekend; valium&liver toxicity Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net }But, I've worked out a better way to pill her. Since I have to give her }2 different pills twice a day, I crush them and add some water and some }baby food and use a syringe. That way, she gets all her medicine in one Man - I do envy you folks who can syringe medicines! I couldn't syringe beef stock into mine! I get some wierd looks at the emergency clinic when I plead with them for pills instead of liquids - they keep arguing with me about it! For those who have as much trouble with liquid medications as I do, I have a trick for getting a cat to take a pill fairly easily. I've used it on both kittens now - who are not totally "unferal" yet. Get some beef (or whatever meat they like), and cook it to a safe temperature (if the beef is not ground, you can leave it mostly raw - just make sure it's quite warm). Cut the meat into 1/4" square pieces - make a lot of them a dozen or so. Start by picking up a piece. Open cat mouth as if pilling it, but only put the meat in the middle of the tongue. One taste, and they'll decide it's not so bad. Next piece, a bit farther back, but still let them taste it. When you can actually stick a piece down their throat - pick up one with the pill. Stick down throat. Then immediately put another one in the middle of the tongue again. I had 10 days of antibiotics and pred - and by the end of the first week, I didn't even need the meat bits to get a pill down Akela. Diana ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:03:13 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: FeLV+ and FeLV- together (long) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Angela, I also have positives and negatives together. For two years now and to my knowledge, have had no new cases of FeLV. The only new case I had was my Merlin, who my vet is quite positive had it when I brought him home as a kitten. I isolate all newcomers until after their shots, feed everyone well and so far, so good. There are no guarentee's in life and one must decide for themselves what they want to do. In almost all of my cases, the cat or kitten would have died had I not taken them in. So I feel, even if the worst should happen, they had a better life than they would have had, if any at all. I didn't print out your letter, so I'm not sure if this is from you, but someone said they would wait three months to get another cat. That is not necessary with FeLV. The virus is very fragile outside the body and dies quickly. Even a week is more than enough time. To make ourselves feel better, I would wash all bed linen in hot water with bleach, pitch the catbox and get a new one and get new food and water bowls. That's really all you have to do. Good luck. barb ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:06:46 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: FeLV+ and FeLV- together (long) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Angela, Here's hoping his own bone marrow is kicking in. It can happen you know. We have had some amazing turn arounds on this list. Actually, it seems that transfusion lasted him quite a while! Are you giving him anything with a little iron in it? I gave Polyvisol Baby vitamins with iron, but I have to warn you, Merlin absolutely hated them. come to think of it, so did my kids! barb ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:48:12 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Hello Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Charlie, Welcome to the group. I'm a little behind on my mail. I'm sure from time to time you will see success stories on this list. Many of us have had extra time with our loved ones and some of us have had more time than we counted on and are still counting. Give Nikita a hug for me! Nancy ---------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:43:46 -0600 Subject: Candle Ceremony, 6-22, Part 1 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net To be performed at 10 pm EST time, if possible. (I've changed times to correspond w/ petloss.com) CANDLE CEREMONY Written by Lisa Singer (lsinger@aol.com) The candles being lit tonight; Cast a soft and welcome flame. And draw our loved ones to the light, As we call to them by name. Imagine spirits taking flight, For a moment our souls entwine. Say not Good Night, but in some Brighter Time Bid them all- Good Morning. WE GATHER TOGETHER TO HONOR AND REMEMBER OUR PETS Tonight, Monday, we join hands, hearts and souls across the land as one large extended family to pray for our sick and dying pets and to pay tribute to our furbabies who have gone ahead to Rainbow Bridge. Someday, we will meet them again, with hugs, tears and kisses, as we walk together, in eternity, to our new home. Until that blessed day, we honor these precious souls and remember them with the warm glow of flickering candles, sending a message of love, light and healing, and the faith to believe in miracles. PRAYER: God, Creator of all living things, we ask that as we light our candles, the healing warmth of love will flow into the brokenhearted who are tending their ailing pets. Give to them Your strength and comfort. We also pray that the soft glow of light will part the clouds of grief and sorrow to surround our furbabies at the Bridge. May excitement REIGN SUPREME as wagging tails and ecstatic purrs feel our gentle touch once again. May they know the gratitude we hold in our hearts for their faithfulness and gift of unconditional love as they are forever remembered. We are temporarily separated for only a short while. The silver cord that connects us through time and space can never be broken. AMEN. CANDLE 1: BRIDGE FUR CHILDREN Read the names of those who have gone on before us as a tribute to them and their loving parents. As we all meet here, our Bridgekids will be meeting all newcomers, easing their way. 6/22/98 Eloise (April 1994 - June 14, 1998) Judy Beamish 6/1/98 Rubin 12 years old (March 1986 - May 25, 1998) Gina & JoAnn Kettainya Kimlin (1993 - May 26, 1998) Kathleen Panther (May 1992 - May 18, 1998) Nancy Schmall Mancha (December 23, 1995 - December 29, 1997) Pamela Lazo Benny (November 1997 to February 7, 1998) Michele R. Brooks Buddy Kennebeck ( December 1987 to March 13, 1998) Liz Kennebeck. 5/25/98 Paige (May 1994 - May 22,1998) Tabby Kelly Donnelly Lucky (November 1, 1996 - May 21,1998) Paula Lazo Zachie (June 1982 - November 1994) Selena Ernie (October 1993 - April 5, 1998) Susan Wylie & Roger Scott Selena (July 1996 - April 1998) Marilyn Ariya Yin (May 1986 - March 1992) Marilyn Chloe (April 1993 - April 6, 1998) Steve Fitzgerald (June 1997 - April 27, 1998) Rachel Macaulay Vyvyan (March 20, 1988 - August 15, 1997) James Wilson Alice (September 11, 1996 - November 28, 1997) Saliha Tessie (February 1996 - April 19, 1998) Saliha Mickey (October 1996 - November 24, 1997) Cheri G. Salomon (1996 (gotcha date) - September 5, 1997) Paula Sherrod Bubbles (1995 - November 4, 1997) Paula Sherrod George (1995 - April 14, 1998) Paula Sherrod Judy Beamish's Bridge Kitties Comet (10/92 - 4/1/98) Lucille (5/91 - 3/15/98) Donna (5/91 - 2/15/98) Cody (12/93 - 12/29/97) Louise's kitten (10/17/97 - 11/29/97) Emma (5/90 - 11/29/97) Chica (9/97 - 11/20/97) Freddy (10/90 - 11/10/97) Robin (10/97 - 11/2/97) Noah Kitten (5/97 - 10/30/97) John (9/90 - 10/20/97) Miss T (12/89 - 6/10/97) Noah (12/89 - 4/24/97) Tiger (1/90 - 4/24/97) Tootie (5/91 - 2/4/97) Fuzzy (9/93 - 12/23/96) Joey (5/91 - 11/23/96) Lucifer (5/91 - 10/1/96) Cindy (10/90 - 9/26/96) Carmel (2/93 - 5/30/96) Rudy (1/91 - 12/11/95) Jill (9/93 - 9/27/95) Jacob (6/92 - 7/29/95) Smokey Sue (2/90 - 2/8/95) Blackie (3/94 - 1/11/95) Abandoned Siamese (10/94 - 10/23/94) Sam (11/93 - 9/16/94) Clover (5/92 - 8/12/94) Fluffy (4/93 - 8/12/94) Chico (7/91 - 7/8/94) Buddy (9/91 - 3/2/94) Mrs (8/93 - 2/22/94) Bright Eyes (2/90 - 1/24/94) Thomas (10/90 - 1/11/94) Frank (6/93 - 12/6/93) Iggy (6/92 - 11/26/93) Stray Litter (5 Kittens) - (9/93 - 10/93) Sweetie Pie (10/90 - 10/21/93) Hayley (10/89 - 6/17/93) Lucas (9/92 - 5/27/93) Harold (6/90 - 5/20/93) Ebony (11/89 - 2/28/93) Campbell (6/92 - 2/21/93) Goofy (9/91 - 12/24/92) Erin (1/92 - 10/30/92) Alfie (6/92 - 8/26/92) 3 Littermates of Alfie (6/92 - 8/92) Sydney (9/91 - 6/29/92) Sojourner Brown (6/90 - 6/26/92) Goldie (10/90 - 6/15/92) Amore (2/92 - 6/1/92) Otis (5/91 - 5/28/92) Prince Charles (9/91 - 5/20/92) Eddie (7/89 - 5/14/92) Holly (6/91 - 3/10/92) Dusty (7/90 - 10/12/91) Angel (4/91 - 6/29/91) Star (3/91 - 5/14/91) Jerry (12/90 - 4/14/91) Ginger (3/82 - 10/2/90) Oscar (5/89 - 5/7/90) Rocky (2/14/89 - 6/20/89) Casey (11/88 - 12/26/88) Ginger Mama (5/87 - 11/26/88) Old Fluffy (6/75 - 8/20/88) Puff (11/83 - 7/24/88) Chester (9/84 - 3/17/88) Daphne (9/84 - 2/12/85) I will not look back for there is sorrow. I will not look for today for there is longing. I will look forward for there is OUR tomorrow. ---------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:45:10 -0600 Subject: Candle Ceremony, 6-22, Part 2 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net CANDLE 2: SPECIAL NEEDS FUR CHILDREN Read the names of all those who are sick, injured, or have special circumstances. Ninja (for continued success in treatment of meningioma and FeLV) Barb Sophia (for continued good health) Gina & JoAnn Luke four-year-old male (for continued success of treatment for felv and for a good home) Gina & Joann Rissa-Tai (for continued improvement) Pam & Chuck Howling Kitty four-year-old male with advanced lymphosarcoma & felv Arlene Grey Tabby in Little Rock, Arkansas (felv+, needs home) Cheri G. Misha Chere Together we unite to give thanks for the special pets who have improved in health and strength. We also, being of one heart, pray for the Mommies, Daddies, and little ones who struggle together against serious illness. We remember in quiet reverence the special ones who left us and we pray for the grieving families left behind. And we can never forget all who work to save the homeless and abused animals. Their burden is never light. With one heart, all are remembered and forever cherished by this family of love. CANDLE 3: FOR ACKNOWLEDGMENT AND PEACE In honor of all the homeless, forgotten, abandoned, abused animals. For the nameless little ones who gave their lives for others, for research and as a result of humankind's inhumanity. May the Higher Powers that be forgive the cruelty. We light this candle for them. As our lights shine brightly through the galaxy, may the angels smile upon us, and know that for a brief moment, we have put aside worldly differences to bond as ONE. CLOSING: I have sent you on a journey to a land free from pain, not because I did not love you, but because I loved you too much to force you to stay. MOMENT OF SILENCE. "Blessed are they that mourn, for they will be comforted." Love, light and healing to all. Amen. ---------------------------------------- END