Thursday June 11, 1998 26 Messages ======================================== From: GinaTex@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 11:27 PM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: felv testing Saliha Our Rubin had the bone marrow biopsy done the same way that Kathleen described. That too was last resort for the same reasons. Rubin's was done because our vet said that we needed to know exactly what was going on in his bone marrow to find out the course of treatment he should be on. He was already extremely anemic and the test showed that his bone marrow just about shut down. Hope this info helped Gina ---------------------------------------- From: CatWoman [diana@wetware.com] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 3:10 PM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Again! Hey - a hug is a hug is a hug, and whether it was from you directly, or passed on by you from Gloria - all e-hugs are gratefully accepted! Diana ---------------------------------------- From: RobertCWhite [robertcwhite@ij.net] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 9:45 PM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: felv testing I just read this and wanted to respond. Kettainya had this done to test if the leukemia was causing tumors to develop in her bone marrow. They made a small incision in her hip and extracted a small sample of her bone marrow to examine. She had stitches---which didn't last long. Since she could easily reach them she pulled on them until they came out. The sound was much like nails on a chalk board. I tried to keep her from doing it, even in my sleep, but I couldn't be around her all the time. :) She was a bit wobbly & a little sore and her leg would just give out on her at first, but before I knew it she was back to being herself and it healed nicely. My vet recommended it only as a last resort because the more incisions and needles you insert, your risk of infection increases, which as you can imagine is not favorable with a disease like leukemia. Hope this helped. ---Kathleen robertcwhite@ij.net ---------------------------------------- From: CatWoman [diana@wetware.com] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 2:24 PM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: felv testing Ummm - unless they are using a *REALLY* different vaccine protocol where you live, I can guarantee that they will not test positive after having the vaccine. I don't know about *immediately* after - but certainly not always! My cats have been getting FeLV vaccines since they came out - my vet saved 5 of her first batch for me. Back when cats got violently ill from the vaccine - about 14 years ago. I have since had every cat vaccinated. When Ghost and Ishtar came in and were found positive, we had every single cat tested twice in the space of a year. Muffin (who was Ishtar's son, and had had the longest history of vaccines) had gotten the virus after the two had been in my house a few months. He managed to throw it off again somewhere in the next three months. Some have not been tested since, but the ones who have have all tested negative. The shot should not cause a positive reaction. Diana ---------------------------------------- From: CatWoman [diana@wetware.com] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 2:14 PM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: felv testing Susan - I tested as soon as I found one that was positive. And I test whenever symptoms show up, and someone else tests positive. Other than that - even with potential symptoms (both of my feral kittens have now had bouts with Anterior Uveitis, I'm not going to test again until Princess has been gone from the house for the 3 months (I did have her retested, in case she had had a false positive - it wasn't likely, and she is positive). I am hoping nobody else has contracted it, but at this point my attitude is that if they have, they've all been together for over a year now, and they might as well stay together. Diana ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 7:20 PM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: felv testing Saliha, They have to put the cat under and take a large bore needle and puncture the bone to the marrow. They will use a large bone, like one in the hip, and just aspirate out some marrow. It sounds much worse than it is and only takes a few minutes. It's much like a biopsy. There are a few folks on the list who's cats have had this done, maybe they can elaborate for you. barb ---------------------------------------- From: Lynn or Josiah Stickels [jonny@zapcom.net] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 6:54 PM To: felvtalk Subject: Again! Well, I did it again.  It wasn't a hug from Gloria, it was a hug from me.  I can't even seem to write a decent simple message.  Sorry...............Lynn ---------------------------------------- From: meowmama@bellsouth.net Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 6:52 PM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Thanks! Linda P Just received the material and want to thank you so much for your generosity!!! Haven't had a chance to read it, but it looks like there's a lot of good info there!!! Hugs, -- Kathy G and the 3 furries in Daytona Beach =^.^= Rusty =^.^= Smokey =^.^= Money see us at: http://cgi.gambitsys.com/homey/webdoc5.htm The Cat: Mother Nature's Masterpiece ---------------------------------------- From: Lynn or Josiah Stickels [jonny@zapcom.net] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 6:41 PM To: felvtalk Subject: Fw: A Hug from Gloria Subject: A Hug from Gloria >Subject: A Hug >Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:06:56 EDT >Message-ID: <42330339.358038e1@aol.com> > > > It's wonderous what a HUG can do > > ,d88b.d88b, a HUG can cheer you when you're >blue > 88888888888 a HUG can say "I love you so" > `Y888888Y' or "gee, I hate to see you go > `Y888Y' a HUG is "welcome back again" > Y' and "great to see you" or > "where have you been?" > > The HUG - there's just no doubt about >it > we scarcely could survive without it >,d88b.d88b, > a HUG delights and warms and charms >'888888888' > it must be why God gave us arms. >'Y88888Y' > > >'Y888Y' > HUGS are great for fathers and >mothers >'Y' > sweet for sisters, swell for >brothers > and chances are some favorite >aunts > ,d88b.d88b, love them more than potted plants. > '888888888' > 'Y88888Y' Kittens crave them, puppies love them > 'Y888Y' heads of state are not above them > 'Y' a HUG can break the language >barrier > and make the dullest day seem >merrier. > > No need to fret about the store of >'em > the more you give, the more there are of 'em > ,d88b.d88b, so stretch those arms without delay > '888888888' and give someone a HUG today. > > "Y88888Y' > 'Y888Y' {{{{ A SPECIAL HUG FOR FRIENDS }}}} > 'Y' > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> > >--------- End forwarded message ---------- ---------------------------------------- From: Claude Horstmann [claude@frontiernet.net] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 5:56 PM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Portugal ! Hi Sonja, The package went out this morning. Vit C ( the safe kind), Pet-tinic, and some Ambrotose that I had left. If you have access to the Archives you can read about the measures that have helped der kittens. And I enclosed the "recipes" that I thought added quality months to my little girl's too short life. Good Luck , and welcome to the mailinglist.....                                        peace & light,                                        ..marilyn.. ---------------------------------------- From: Claude Horstmann [claude@frontiernet.net] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 5:52 PM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: post-scrpit for Saliha I'm working a wrecking schedule, and am following at warp speed trying to play catch-up on the list: But, I do want to respond to your question- about hurt. I mourned Selena in Buddhist fashion. I set up her photo, flowers, a sutra book, and incense. This manner of honoring her has helped. Wasn't easy, still isn't... but having a spot like this gives a measure of containment to the grief. June 16th ends the 49 day Bardo experience, and I must be prepared to let her GO, so she can be free for her next adventure. And I do find that I am thinking more kindly, and less painfully about her now. Of course, it goes without saying, that friends have helped me enormously along this path. And I hope, after the 16th, to have someone help me scan her photo in readiness for the tribute page, ......and I'm reminded of Rumi's lines: " Don't grieve, anything you lose comes round in another form "                 peace & light,                                                 ..marilyn.. ----------------------------------------  From: equinox@az.com on behalf of Equinox Corp. [equinox@az.com] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 6:10 PM To: 'felvtalk@MailingList.net' Subject: RE: felv testing Hi Barb, Which is the test that screens Felv in the bone marrow? Thanks, Saliha ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 5:44 PM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: felv testing Sonja, Yes, it is more serious in the bone marrow, but with FeLV, you just never know what is going to happen. It would not surprise me one bit to have someone write that their cat's bone marrow tested positive and the cat lived to be 20. barb ---------------------------------------- From: Sonja Lüders [luzsonja@mail.telepac.pt] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 4:56 PM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: felv testing Is it more serious, if it has gone to the bone marrow, and what sort of test is there to find out? (If a blood test could be negative, does it mean they have to take bone marrow?) Sorry to be so uninformed, I was must have been lucky these past 16 years! Sonja ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 4:18 PM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: felv testing All, First, I don't believe that a cat, once vacinated will test positive for FeLV. My vet does like to wait one month before testing, just to be safe, but that's it. Perhaps we could ask Dr. Myers or even Cornell about this, to be sure. About the ELISA tests. I am pretty sure my vet says he likes to wait until they are about 4 months old to test. But some do it at three, since that's when the shots are started. I read in the MERCK manual that about 30% of cats tested with it come up wrong. Now being an optimist, I like to think that it is 70% right. Also, some cats where the FeLV has already buried itself in the bone marrow, not only will test neg on the ELISA, but the IFA will also come up negative. Sometimes you just have to go on what you see with your eyes. If the cat looks healthy, you are prob ok, but if it appears ill and all the tests are negative, obviously, something is wrong somewhere. The obvious flaws in the ELISA test, tho not totally the tests fault, it could be a sloppy vet or technician, the cat may be infected but not at the stage where it would trigger a positive....there are so many variables, this is why we strongly urge people NOT to just put a cat to sleep based on one test. Wait a month and retest and trust your eyes and your instincts. barb ---------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 2:31 PM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: felv testing Hi susan I have a mixed household as well we had 2 positves with 3 negatives till Rubins recent death. Now we have 1 positve and 3 negatives. When we brought in our kittens they had 2 booster shots before they where mixed in and then we also tested them all. Our Zacharay been living with us 3 years and he still negative. We do retest our negatives and they recieve their vaccine every year. Our vet said there is a slight chance that the test results could be false in either direction but that it is very rare. Zachary was tested the same day he got his vaccine and it showed negative. Good Luck with them all. Gina ---------------------------------------- From: BILL BEAMISH [judbe@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 8:47 AM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: felv testing Hi Sonja, First of all, I'm so happy for you that Schurli is so much better! May it continue for ever and ever! I retest my negative, vaccinated cats all the time and most of the time they come back negative. So maybe they do use a different Felv test in Europe. My vet has never said anything about the vaccine affecting the outcome of future tests. Otherwise I don't think he'd waste my time and money retesting! Again, I'm so happy for you and Schurli! Take care. Judy ---------------------------------------- From: BILL BEAMISH [judbe@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 8:35 AM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: felv testing Susan, I don't recall ever getting a false negative test but now you've got me thinking that maybe what I considered a vaccine failure was actually a false negative Felv test. I've gotten many false positive Felv AND FIV tests. First of all, I don't test any kittens until they are at least 10 weeks old, later if possible. Then if they test positive on the office Elisa test, I send out the IFA test. If that also is positive, the cat or kitten definitely has Felv. But I've had many cats test positive on the Elisa only to come out negative on the IFA. Then I isolate them and wait another 3 months, retest with the IFA, and if it's still negative, then I consider the cats negative. Any new cat is isolated until I definitely know their status. I got so many false positive FIV tests that now my vet won't test a kitten for FIV until it is 6 months old. Then I go throught the same procedure as I do for the Felv test. I retest periodically whether the cat is showing symptoms or not. I ALWAYS retest if the cat gets sick and is going in to stay at the vets. But I'll retest a negative cat if the cat is going in for dental and sometimes I'll retest when they go in for booster shots. I like to know the status of every cat in the house so, like you said, I have a jump on treatment if they get sick. For your own peace of mind, would it be possible to retest your feral kittens or are they too feral to catch easily and would it stress them too much to catch them and take them in? They were certainly old enough when you tested them last August and if you had each kitten tested individually, the chance of all 3 tests coming back false negative would be pretty slim, I would think. I would bet on those kittens being negative. You know, one other thing, my vet told me the accuracy of that Elisa test depends a lot on how careful the vet tech is in running it. I guess it has to be done precisely. Once you deal with Felv, it's pretty hard not to worry about everyone, but I don't think I'd worry about the kittens. Judy ---------------------------------------- From: Sonja Lüders [luzsonja@mail.telepac.pt] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 12:16 PM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: felv testing You got me worried now, too, about false tests in kittens: I found 3 halfsiamese kittens abandoned outside my garden in August '96, had them tested (neg) and vaccinated as soon as they were old enough. One I found a home for, the others are still with me, and well, although they were always bundled up with Schurli, the one I wrote aboutl. Can re-testing be conclusive, once they have been vaccinated? My vet says, they will afterwards always test positive (maybe they use another test over here)? Schurli is behaving almost normally to-day, holding his lovely bushy tail high, and eating well, I AM SO HAPPY, long may it last! Sonja ---------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 11:04 AM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: felv testing Hi Everyone, I'm wondering about testing. I am beginning to worry about bringing in my feral kittens last August. They were approx. 3 mo old when I caught them at which time I had them tested, vac'd etc. They tested neg. I joined this group in March at which time I learned that kittens often have false negs. Now our newest addition Duncan has tested neg. as well and he's been out in the general population, too. My question is I suppose for Judy and other multi-cat householders (I've got nine, almost ten--one I'm committed to at the no-kill shelter.) 1) Have you ever encountered false felv negs. and if so what were the situations? 2) Do you retest your multi-cat households periodically (esp. those w/ mixed groups) to get a jump on treatment or do you just wait for tell-tale signs? Everyone seems healthy except for occasional sneezing. Thanks, Susan ---------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 8:25 AM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Strange and unusual behavior Hi Chere Again I just read your latest post. I know what you mean about not operating machinery etc. Our dog takes phenobarbital for anxiety and on the bottle it says no alcoholic beverages. I laugh at the pharmacists each time and tell them she will try to refrain from her booze,LOL As soon as we get the info we will call the vets. Thanks Gina and JoAnn ---------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 8:22 AM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Strange and unusual behavior Hi Chere and Misha That would be great. Incidently she is negative for Felv, we have a mixed household. That is fine to send it in private e-mail. Maybe that is what her problem is. thanks Gina and JoAnn ---------------------------------------- From: Kat [kat@sweng.systems.gec.com] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 6:29 AM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Cc: ignacio@nyssa.com.ar Subject: Re: (Fwd) need input on these symptoms Hi Ignacio, The fluid build-up may be due to cardiomyopathy - the heart doesn't pump as well as it should and the fluid builds up - most notably in the lungs. Cats of all ages have been diagnosed with this and lasix can be given as a diuretic. Please keep us posted. Kat (New Jersey) ---------------------------------------- From: Kat [kat@sweng.systems.gec.com] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 6:16 AM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: New Kitten Cheri, Congratulations on your addition!! As for names: depending how far down the black comes - Zorro or (the lone) Ranger, or if it is uneven - Phantom (of the Opera)?? Kat ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 6:10 AM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Cc: ignacio@nyssa.com.as Subject: Re: (Fwd) need input on these symptoms Hello, This could be a heart problem, tho I wouldn't completely rule out FIP. The tests they have for it are not always definitive. Usually they look for a high serum protein, which could be several things if high. There is a condition called cardiomyophathy which causes the heart to enlarge and fail. One of the symptoms is a large abdomen, which is filled with fluid much like a human would get with heart failure, only we get it, usually, in our legs first. At any rate, this sounds like a true emergency and I would insist that your vet deal with this as such. If not, get to another vet, a specialist if you can find one. Is the cat urinating normally? It could also be kidney failure, tho I think the blood work would have indicated this. Good luck and please keep us informed. barb ---------------------------------------- From: chere@nwnexus.com Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 1998 11:45 PM To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Strange and unusual behavior Gina and Joann, Sorry for posting again so soon but I just read you most recent post...this situation is EXACTLY what happens with my friend's cat Dusty!!! It is indeed a condition having to do with the muscles in the back. The kitty is licking the area of the back because of the pain, much like we rub sore muscles. My friend has collected a bunch of info about this condition (most of it from kitty care books) and went to her cats-only vet a very well-informed person. The perscribed meds were some sort of tranqulizers--what stands out in my mind was the warning label on the bottle: "not to be used when driving or operating heavy machinery". No kidding!! Anyway, please mail me and I'll try and get the info for you ASAP! :) Chere and Misha in Washington State ---------------------------------------- END