Tuesday June 2, 1998 Part 1 15 Messages ====================================== From: WORKPARK@aol.com Date sent: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:17:55 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Rissa-Tai's bloodwork tests Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Saliha, Just for a cbc???? I'd find another vet!! Pam -------------------------------------- From: WORKPARK@aol.com Date sent: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:25:31 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Choices Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi all, WOW, I really opened up a can of worms with what I started. It makes me get warm fuzzies inside thinking that I'm not the only one to do this!! Thanks to all of you, for taking such wonderful care of the furry beings of the planet, and for making me realize I'm not loony or nuts for spending "so much money on a cat." I have been told "she's not your child/baby, she is a pet/cat," and variations thereof. Obviously, I'm not the only one who has been told something like this. I agree that the only place I may ever again mention costs or what all I am doing is on this list. I know that everyone on this list would do anything possible to save our fur- babies. It's because of people like us that a cure for this disease will eventually be found. Pam 'Til cheesecake and chocolate moussecake* *For all you newbies, this has become the slogan for "until a cure". The plan is to celebrate with cheesecake (and chocolate moussecake for those of us who prefer it) at Larry the Lurker's home in Illinois (I think that's where it is) when a cure is found. -------------------------------------- From: WORKPARK@aol.com Date sent: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:02:08 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Ninja - (long) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb & Ninja, Rissa-Tai is on Depo too. It was too stressful for her after awhile to take the pred pills anymore. It lasts about two weeks, and when we tried to wean her off of it, she took a dive :( However, she is doing really well with it. We heard anywhere from two to twelve weeks. Two seems to work out right for her. And yes, she also has monster pees, usually in the box, but sometimes in the bathtub when she feels like it. Sometimes, it's really funny, she climbs through the box, then squats and starts to go, then decides the position isn't right, and while still going, starts climbing onto the side of the box, with her little butt hanging over the edge into the box. Chuck swears she is trying to write her name, with all the movement and swirls. Good luck with the Depo. Pam -------------------------------------- From: WORKPARK@aol.com Date sent: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:09:49 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Swheat Scoop Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi all, Since the topic of monster pees for the cats on prednisone has come up, it remended me of something... Awhile ago, it came up that several of the cats have been licking the litter. This seems to be common with the cats who are anemic. There is a solution. Linda P. had recommended to me a product called "Swheat Scoop." It's actually an all-natural cat litter made from ground wheat and other grains that's scoopable. It cost $8 and change for a 14 pound bag at Petsmart. I have to tell you, this is some of the best litter we've ever had. It clumps better than anything else we've tried. It contains odor, has very little dust if any, and the cats don't track it as much. Plus which, if the cat licks it, it won't hurt them the way clumping clay litter can. Thanks for the advice Linda. I just wanted to pass it along, as I know others have the same problem with cats licking litter. Pam -------------------------------------- From: WORKPARK@aol.com Date sent: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:16:48 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Vaccinations Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Beth, The topic of vaccinations has come up on the list several times. My vet doesn't believe in vaccinating positive cats for FeLV as it does cause stress on them when they are vaccinated for anything. I'm not talking about the trip to the vet's. I'm talking to their reaction to a foreign substance to their body. Any vaccination can cause a low-grade fever, for example. We've also talked about frequency of vaccinations. There are some who think the reason why it is suggested that animals be vaccinated every year (unlike humans who are not) is a way for the vets to make more money. I'd be curious to find out how much your vet charges you for each visit, and so forth, to see if this may be a possibility. In all honesty, it sounds quite fishy to me. I've never heard of anything like this before, and if I recall, it's never been mentioned on this mailing list before. I'd also like to hear others opinions on this, as I also have a positive with a negative. Pam -------------------------------------- From: WORKPARK@aol.com Date sent: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:41:38 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Vaccinations Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I should mention that she does think the positive cats should be vaccinated for everything else they would normally be vaccinated for. Pam -------------------------------------- Date sent: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 09:17:56 +0100 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: BILL BEAMISH Subject: Re: Vaccinations Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Pam, My vet also is against vaccinating Felv positive cats. I think I mentioned before that the few times one of my positives accidentally was vaccinated with the Felv vaccine, they got sick and was down for a few days, fever, not eating, lethargic. I should explain how this could "accidentally" happen! When we take cats in just for shots, we take in 4-6 at a time and usually my husband takes them. If a cat has a problem I take them in since I'm with the cats all day long and I know them better than my husband does. I pay very close attention to them (as all people with positive cats do!) so I can catch a problem as early as possible. Well, when my husband goes in with the cats, I think the vet and him have a good conversation going and neither pays close attention to what they are doing so I think it was 2 times the vet vaccinated one of my positives. He was very apologetic and refunded my money but that wasn't my main concern. The cats got sick and I was upset about that. I should also make it clear that I DO vaccinate my FIV positive cats for Felv and I've never had an FIV positive cat have a bad reaction to the Felv vaccine. Quite a while ago, my vet had suggested vaccinating my negative cats twice a year but I was skeptical so he said he'd check into it first. He checked with Cornell and they told him they didn't feel it would be of much benefit. This was even before the problems of the vaccine site sarcomas came up. I am required by law to get rabies shots for my cats so I'd be putting them at more risk if I had them get 2 Felv shots a year. Now I'm trying not to vet bash here but I've been reading more and more about cats not needing to be vaccinated every year and my sister sees a holistic vet who recommends not vaccinating at all (which I don't agree with) but I don't think vets are going to go along with this at all. After all, this is their job! I have to say, though, that if research finds that cats don't need vaccinations every year and the vets still insist on it, even with the risk of vaccine site sarcomas, that's pretty bad and doesn't reflect well on vets at all! I'm generalizing here and I guess I shouldn't. Each individual vet has his own vaccine protocol and some may keep in mind what's best for the cats. I'm sorry if I sound kind of bitter towards vets but I've had some VERY bad experiences and still do occasionally. Enough of this. I guess what it comes down to is you research all the options, weigh the pros and cons, and you do what you think is best for your cats. Judy -------------------------------------- Date sent: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 12:23:25 From: Jennifer Pelland To: owner-felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: Rissa-Tai's bloodwork tests/Choices]] > Megaera is beautiful and looks very healthy! Thanks! She's getting a little chunky now that she's the only cat. Her exercise used to consist of fighting her piggy sister for food at the food bowl and then fighting with her on and off during the day. Now that it's just her, we're trying to feed her a little less and exercise her whenever we think of it. It's a little difficult with her asthma, especially when it's hot and the pollen count is high, but we're doing what we can. Besides, her being mildly plump is a good sign that the virus is still >If anyone > but you had gotten them when they were kittens, they most likely >would have > been put to sleep, as you friend's father said. Actually, while they probably were positive from birth, they tested negative at eight weeks and we didn't know that we needed to retest them at 12 when their immune systems were fully formed. We didn't realize they were positive until they were nearly three (when Tisiphone developed cancer). I honestly cannot say what I would have done had they tested positive at eight weeks. Actually, I probably wouldn't have adopted them. If they tested positive after I'd had them for a month or two, I'm pretty sure > I told the vet to do > what he could to save him and there was an uproar from certain family > members. They told me I was causing him unnecessary pain and prolonging his > life for nothing. It's not nothing. When I put Tisiphone on chemo, within a couple of days, she was a happy cat again. She never quite regained her earlier energy levels, but she was happy, she ate, she curled up with us and purred--that, to me, is worth the money. They say money can't buy happiness, but in cases like this, it does. > Well, all the disagreement was for nothing > since the poor cat died during the night at the vet's office. I'm so sorry. At least that cat had something that many didn't--someone who cared about him. Plus I'm sure the vet made sure his pain was minimal to non-existant. That counts for a lot. -Jennifer -------------------------------------- From: Paula Lazo To: "'Felv Talk List'" Subject: Howling Kitty Date sent: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 09:11:15 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Dear Arlene: As you might know I lost Lucky 2 weeks ago because of a lymphosarcoma. The tumor surrounded one of his lung and my little baby was no longer able to breathe. He was at the clinic and had been hospitalized 3 days before. Unfortunalety the sarcoma was found too late, but he was being treated with a drug called "vincristine" which is an oncology drug used in children with leukemia. He had to have 4 doses, one each week (IV), he only got the chance to get 1 dose. The vets told me this drug is almost 100% effective in a type of tumor called "tbt" or "tdt" but in lymphosarcomas the success hasn't been that proved but there has been some. I don't know Howling Kittiy's protocol, but I hope it's something like this, if not please let me know and we'll see what we can do. I do hope he gets better and please know that you both are in my thoughts. Paula from Chile -------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Date sent: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:58:18 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Howling Kitty Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Deat Arlene I just read Paula's message, our Rubin was treated with vincrestine (spelling i am not sure of) 4 years ago, he got 8 injections and he responded so well that he was in remision for 4 years, our vet tryed the same regimen this go around but we feel that his age was against him and that is why it was so hard for him to fight this last battle. He had bone marrow infiltration, his bone marrow in the end shut down. Maybe it might work with Howling kitty like it did for Rubin. Gina and JoAnn -------------------------------------- Date sent: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:12:28 From: Jennifer Pelland To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Vet recommendation Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Well, hearing a few people complain about vets, I thought I'd recommend my own. If you live near the western burbs of Boston, I highly recommend the Weston Veterinary Clinic. Take route 128 to 20 east, and they're just a few houses up on the left. They're very compassionate, very clean and modern, they explain everything to you, and they have a close relationship with the Tufts Veterinary School, which is where all their tests are run, so you know they're going to be as accurate as is humanly possible. I've since recommended them to friends who live near me, and they love them too. I had been going to Kindness Animal Hospital in Waltham before I found them, and wasn't really satisfied, but since I'd never visited a vet before, I had no basis for comparison. I hope this is useful to someone on this list. -Jennifer -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:43:45 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Vet $$$$ Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Beth, Your vet sounds very reasonable and he is right, you can't believe everything you read on the net. Beware of anything that claims to cure. Unfortunately, we are not at that point yet. Sure wish we were, but no. Mine sounds much like yours. He hasn't used a lot of stuff I ask him to use, but he tries it and just like me, waits to see what will help and what doesn't seem to. Even tho my Merlin lost the battle in the end, he was absolutey amazed he lived as long as he did. In fact, he was taking notes on what I was doing for him. So that's the important thing. One that is at least willing to try. And it sounds like you have a good one. barb -------------------------------------- Date sent: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 16:43:01 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Angela Holderby Subject: Re: Howling Kitty Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Arlene: When I took Lefty in for a transfusion, he was so severely anemic the first vets exact words were 'this cat's blood is so screwed up, nothing can fix it'. The transfusion did wonders. I don't know how long it will last, but it was unbelievable how immediate the results were. I don't know if your kitty is a candidate for a transfusion or not, but I did notice one thing in your post, that was the Pet-tinic. My vet prescribed the Pet-tinic TWICE a day for both cats (even the one with no symptoms.) I mix the 1cc of Pet-tinic with 1/4 tsp. of Ambrotose for Lefty twice a day. Poncho gets 1/2 cc of Pet-tinic by mouth and the other half is mixed with 1/8 tsp. of Ambrotose. I just wipe the Ambrotose past on their front leg and they will lick it off. Lefty also had that vacant 'stare' that you mentioned. I was told that this was due to the fact that because of the anemia, his blood cells couldn't carry enough oxygen to his brain. I, too, was afraid that he had some sort of brain involvement from the FELV. The vet said yes, it was causing problems with his brain, but only because of oxygen deprivation and nothing permanent. And, she was right. As soon as we had the anemia under control, he was back to his own sharp self. I am not saying that Howling Kitty's case is exactly the same, I am just saying that when one vet gave up hope, I almost did, too. I had already signed the papers to have Lefty euthanized. Just today, I was in the bathroom with the door shut and Lefty stuck his paw under the door and grabbed my foot. It was so funny because the night before I went to have him put to sleep, I cried and told my husband that I would never get to enjoy our little game of playing under the bathroom door again. I hope things turn around for you and Howling Kitty. It is great that his weight is holding steady. Lefty lost weight very fast. And, incidentally, when they prescribed the 1cc of Pet-tinic twice a day, he was only 5 lbs. 7 ozs. so I am sure it wouldn't be too much for Howling Kitty either. We are praying that things go well for you both. Hang in there, these cats have the ability to rally and turn around without us knowing quite how. Love and healing vibes from Angela, Lefty and Poncho. -------------------------------------- Date sent: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 16:19:53 -0700 From: Robert Frank Organization: A.R.F., Inc. To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Howling Kitty Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Dear Paula: Howling Kitty is being treated with 5 ml of prednisolone and 1cc interferon daily. He is on pet-tinnic every morning. Someone from the list is sending some ambrotose for him to try. He has a grade 3 heart murmur and despite everything we are still battling his anemia-tooth and nail. As of today his inteferon will be switched to alternate day dosing. He seems to be depressed constantly and sits and stares vacantly for an hour at a time. It makes me wonder if he doesn't have neurological damage beginning. His weight is holding fairly steady at 7 1/2 pounds. I've had him to two veterinarians and one internal medicine specialist. To be honest, Paula, I don't know what else to do for him. I'm trying to keep him as comfortable and as well fed as I can. I show him all the love he'll allow!! The doctors seem to think his case is hopeless. All I'm doing is going one day at a time and winning whatever little victories that I can. Any and all advice will be considered. He is my little best friend and no one can ever replace him. As for the treatment you mentioned, this is something I've never heard of. An oncologist however told me that Howling Kitty is not a candidate for chemo. His kidneys are stressed and his liver enzymes are elevated. Paula, I'm so sorry for your loss. Doesn't your house and your hear feel pretty lonely without your little guy? I'm trying to adjust to losing my baby but somehow that acceptance is always blocked out by grief and anger that he is being taken from me. Life does not promise fairness but he is withering away before my very eyes. I'm hoping you are now having some days of peace. Let me hear from you and I hope all is well with you. Arlene and Howling Kitty -------------------------------------- From: "zimmerman" To: Subject: Vet $$$$ Date sent: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:21:02 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hey, Pam was wondering if my vet was recommending the FeLV vac. twice a year to make more $$$$$. I don't think so, he seems the opposite. Dishonesty isn't the problem here, he's brutally :) honest. He'll do something if I want to but sometimes tells me he doesn't think it will help & not to believe everything I read on the internet. His sense of humor is alot better than his tact. :) Here are some small town prices: Immuno. IV - $6. office call + $5. 1/2 cc Immuno. = $11. 30 ml. Amoxi drops = $8. Annual exam & FVRCP (4 way, he says some Chlamydia is in our area) =$20. I don't remember FeLV vac. individual cost, but 4 tests + 4 vac.s + office call = $120. I bought the whole bottle of interferon (there's 83 syringes with 10-12 cc's in freezer). He was willing to get it but he doesn't use it. It was $100 + $6. tax, he charged no fee or shipping. Plus, he always has time for ?'s & tells me what he's doing. As y'all know - that's priceless. Beth -------------------------------------- END