Monday June 1, 1998 17 Messages ====================================== From: WORKPARK@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 04:47:26 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Rissa-Tai's bloodwork tests Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Saliha, When I take her in every two weeks, I have them run a Complete blood count (cbc) on her. It costs $23.00. It gives us all the numbers I've been mentioning - wbc, rbc, pcv (hermatocrit) and whether she tests positive/negative for Hemobartinella. We monitor her more often than most, basically because of the plasma cell myoloma she had (or so we think - it was gone, but after another test, the Oncologist wants us to do this to keep an eye on her so we can catch anything before it gets really bad), as well as the bouts of Hemobartinella we've gone through. She took a dive at one point, and her wbc dropped to 200, it was barely there at all. With the Hemobart, her rbc has gone down to 11%. This way, we can catch a problem sooner and may be able to do something about it, like antibiotics or Neupogen. Also, we may have to put her back on chemo for the myoloma again, and then it really becomes important to monitor her counts, as the wbc is affected by the chemo. We really don't have a lot of money, which is a concern in all this, but have made the choice to give up some things if it means her being with us longer. We know that that's not possible for everyone, and wish it was. We've had several people tell us we're crazy to have spent over $2000 on a cat, especially one that won't survive this, but what do they know? She's our baby. As long as she is happy, we'll continue to do what we can. We know that everyone on this list feels the same way, that we'll all do whatever we can to help our loved furbabies. I wish everyone could understand this. Anyway, if you need more info, let me know. Pam -------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:29:36 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Rissa-Tai's bloodwork tests Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Pam, I too wish other people could at least RESPECT our decisions to give what it takes to keep our sweet furbabies alive, even though they might not agree. I would have spent a million to keep my Panther with me (even tho I don't have a million). I say "good for you" and as you say, "who knows?" Rissa-Tai may be with you a long, long, long time--I hope so! Nancy -------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:55:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Kat To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Rissa-Tai's bloodwork tests/Choices Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi All, I have been in the same boat - "why are you spending so much on a cat that's just going to die anyway?" I usually tell them LIFE is ALWAYS Terminal and no one gets out of here alive - so what's their point??? They usually get this really confused look on their faces and stop asking me such stupid questions. (VBG) Yes, they think I'm a 'nutty cat lady', but that's alot nicer than what I think of some of them. I also ask them why they choose to make sacrifices to own their little red porche, or spend their money on the latest big screen TVs - they make their choices and I make mine. Kat -------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:07:33 +0100 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: BILL BEAMISH Subject: Re: [Re: Rissa-Tai's bloodwork tests/Choices] Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Jennifer, Megaera is beautiful and looks very healthy! Her sisters are beautiful, too, and I'm very sorry you lost them. You're very special to have taken them in and cared for them so well. As you know, public opinion doesn't favor Felv positive cats or the people who care for them. If anyone but you had gotten them when they were kittens, they most likely would have been put to sleep, as you friend's father said. How unfair! I feel exactly as you do in regards to doing all I can to keep my cats alive and comfortable as long as possible. But I have many arguments with friends and family over cost and is it worth it and so forth. Most recently I had a big argument with family over a cat we got who had been hit by a car and couldn't walk. Our vet examined him and called to tell us he had both back legs and his pelvis broken, he was very thin, infested with fleas and ear mites, also was positive for FIV, was severely anemic and his teeth and gums were badly infected. Worst of all, there was a good possibility the broken bones had severed nerves and he was paralysed. I told the vet to do what he could to save him and there was an uproar from certain family members. They told me I was causing him unnecessary pain and prolonging his life for nothing. I was finally in tears over this. But I told them if it was a child, wouldn't everything be done to save the child's life, whether he was in pain or not? Of course they pointed out to me that a human child is not a cat. To me, my cats or any cat I'm responsible for, deserves the same as I would do for my children. This was just disregarded as something the "crazy cat lady" would say. Well, all the disagreement was for nothing since the poor cat died during the night at the vet's office. I cried over him even though I didn't know him but I had the satisfaction of knowing I did all that was possible to save him and he didn't die a terrible death in the street with no one caring. He may have been alone when he died but I believe he knew someone cared and was trying to help him. I feel good about that. You know, I've basically stopped telling people what I'm doing and how much I spend because I'm sick of hearing them complain and tell me I'm crazy. Just ignore the people who harass you and do what you know is best for your cat. Take care. Judy -------------------------------------- From: GinaTex@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:16:59 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: RE: Rissa-Tai's bloodwork tests/Choices Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Again Very well said by all, we too where in the same boat with friends and coworkers saying we where spending way too much on the animals and that Rubin should have been put to sleep long ago. Well if we had listened to our first vet Rubin would have not made it 5 more years from the time he got sick, or 7 more years from diagnosis,and Sophia 4 years. Having FeLv does not mean instant death sentence, I cannot stand people who look at our cats and dogs as just that, to us they are family, our children whom we would do anything for. Gina and JoAnn -------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 16:39:16 +0000 From: LawBet Subject: Re: [Re: Rissa-Tai's bloodwork tests/Choices] To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Organization: Home for Wayward Felines Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Judy and Others, Take it from someone who has seen death close up. ALL life is precious. The Good Lord made all creatures great and small. Small people have small minds. Ignore them, they are not worth your time. The Lurker -------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:24:48 From: Jennifer Pelland To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: [Re: Rissa-Tai's bloodwork tests/Choices] Reply-to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I had several well-meaning friends who were really *angry* that I was going to put a cat on chemo. "How can you put a cat through that? You should just put her to sleep." Most of them came around People that don't believe in spending money on pets shouldn't own them. If your child had a broken leg, you'd find a way to pay to fix it. You should do the same for pets as well. I would voluntar -Jennifer (PS--if you want to see Megaera and a memorial to her sisters, check out http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/2734/cats1.html) -------------------------------------- From: Paula Lazo To: "'felvtalk@MailingList.net'" Subject: RE: Rissa-Tai's bloodwork tests/Choices Date sent: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:23:45 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Bravo!! Very well said, I fully agree with you Paula from Chile -------------------------------------- From: "Mandy Crerar" To: Subject: Long time no speak Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:43:55 +0200 Reply-to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi all I have been off the list for weeks due to a) giving up working from home and getting a real (i.e. salaried) job, b) getting the flu and not being able to work until all hours of the night and c So very sorry for all the sad news and my heartfelt sympathies to everyone who has lost Precious Fur Angels these past few weeks. Altho they are gone, they each know that they were loved so very muc My news is, for once, ALL GOOD!!! AFter a terrible run at Easter when I lost two babies in one day, one to dehydration and the other to a burst abcess on his lung, things have definitely been looki Titch, Steve's Cat Angel, is still doing well - eating Kitten Iams and raw diet (i.e. low fat) mince. Steve is in the process of moving into a new house which will be so much better for Titch as he He is on Interferon and has this List to thank for his current state of good health. I am busy trying to put together a compilation of everything I have learned from the List - a helluva job. If anyone has done this already, it would sure help me if I could access it? We intend to Thank you all for your contribution. The moral support that this list provides is really such a big help in times of distress and grief. My own household is down to a mere 41 cats - all of whom are in good health and much loved. I havent reached the end of my mail yet as I said, but I hope thatthe computer campaign is reaching its zenith - if ever anyone deserved state of the art equipment, james, its yooo!! Much love to you all MANDY and all the kids and kats at KITTEN ACTION -------------------------------------- From: "Claude Horstmann" To: Subject: candle ceremony Date sent: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:10:09 -0400 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Nancy, I'm so glad that you are adding Panther's name to the ceremony. The outward form is not as important as the inner one, and in that respect all our lost babies are "cat-lick" anyway ! Aw geez, don't go pickin' on me now folks, it's just a play on words, .. no disrespect intended ! peace and light, ..marilyn.. -------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:24:12 -0600 Subject: Monday Candle Service 6-1 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net To be performed at 9 pm EST time, if possible. CANDLE CEREMONY Written by Lisa Singer (lsinger@aol.com) The candles being lit tonight; Cast a soft and welcome flame. And draw our loved ones to the light, As we call to them by name. Imagine spirits taking flight, For a moment our souls entwine. Say not Good Night, but in some Brighter Time Bid them all- Good Morning. WE GATHER TOGETHER TO HONOR AND REMEMBER OUR PETS Tonight, Monday, we join hands, hearts and souls across the land as one large extended family to pray for our sick and dying pets and to pay tribute to our furbabies who have gone ahead to Rainbow Bridge. Someday, we will meet them again, with hugs, tears and kisses, as we walk together, in eternity, to our new home. Until that blessed day, we honor these precious souls and remember them with the warm glow of flickering candles, sending a message of love, light and healing, and the faith to believe in miracles. PRAYER: God, Creator of all living things, we ask that as we light our candles, the healing warmth of love will flow into the brokenhearted who are tending their ailing pets. Give to them Your strength and comfort. We also pray that the soft glow of light will part the clouds of grief and sorrow to surround our furbabies at the Bridge. May excitement REIGN SUPREME as wagging tails and ecstatic purrs feel our gentle touch once again. May they know the gratitude we hold in our hearts for their faithfulness and gift of unconditional love as they are forever remembered. We are temporarily separated for only a short while. The silver cord that connects us through time and space can never be broken. AMEN. CANDLE 1: BRIDGE FUR CHILDREN Read the names of those who have gone on before us as a tribute to them and their loving parents. As we all meet here, our Bridgekids will be meeting all newcomers, easing their way. 6/1/98 Rubin 12 years old (March 1986 - May 25, 1998) Gina & JoAnn Kettainya Kimlin (1993 - May 26, 1998) Kathleen Panther (May 1992 - May 18, 1998) Nancy Schmall Mancha (December 23, 1995 - December 29, 1997) Pamela Lazo Benny (November 1997 to February 7, 1998) Michele R. Brooks Buddy Kennebeck ( December 1987 to March 13, 1998) Liz Kennebeck. 5/25/98 Paige (May 1994 - May 22,1998) Tabby Kelly Donnelly Lucky (November 1, 1996 - May 21,1998) Paula Lazo Zachie (June 1982 - November 1994) Selena Ernie (October 1993 - April 5, 1998) Susan Wylie & Roger Scott Selena (July 1996 - April 1998) Marilyn Ariya Yin (May 1986 - March 1992) Marilyn Chloe (April 1993 - April 6, 1998) Steve Fitzgerald (June 1997 - April 27, 1998) Rachel Macaulay Vyvyan (March 20, 1988 - August 15, 1997) James Wilson Alice (September 11, 1996 - November 28, 1997) Saliha Tessie (February 1996 - April 19, 1998) Saliha Mickey (October 1996 - November 24, 1997) Cheri G. Salomon (1996 (gotcha date) - September 5, 1997) Paula Sherrod Bubbles (1995 - November 4, 1997) Paula Sherrod George (1995 - April 14, 1998) Paula Sherrod Judy Beamish's Bridge Kitties Comet (10/92 - 4/1/98) Lucille (5/91 - 3/15/98) Donna (5/91 - 2/15/98) Cody (12/93 - 12/29/97) Louise's kitten (10/17/97 - 11/29/97) Emma (5/90 - 11/29/97) Chica (9/97 - 11/20/97) Freddy (10/90 - 11/10/97) Robin (10/97 - 11/2/97) Noah Kitten (5/97 - 10/30/97) John (9/90 - 10/20/97) Miss T (12/89 - 6/10/97) Noah (12/89 - 4/24/97) Tiger (1/90 - 4/24/97) Tootie (5/91 - 2/4/97) Fuzzy (9/93 - 12/23/96) Joey (5/91 - 11/23/96) Lucifer (5/91 - 10/1/96) Cindy (10/90 - 9/26/96) Carmel (2/93 - 5/30/96) Rudy (1/91 - 12/11/95) Jill (9/93 - 9/27/95) Jacob (6/92 - 7/29/95) Smokey Sue (2/90 - 2/8/95) Blackie (3/94 - 1/11/95) Abandoned Siamese (10/94 - 10/23/94) Sam (11/93 - 9/16/94) Clover (5/92 - 8/12/94) Fluffy (4/93 - 8/12/94) Chico (7/91 - 7/8/94) Buddy (9/91 - 3/2/94) Mrs (8/93 - 2/22/94) Bright Eyes (2/90 - 1/24/94) Thomas (10/90 - 1/11/94) Frank (6/93 - 12/6/93) Iggy (6/92 - 11/26/93) Stray Litter (5 Kittens) - (9/93 - 10/93) Sweetie Pie (10/90 - 10/21/93) Hayley (10/89 - 6/17/93) Lucas (9/92 - 5/27/93) Harold (6/90 - 5/20/93) Ebony (11/89 - 2/28/93) Campbell (6/92 - 2/21/93) Goofy (9/91 - 12/24/92) Erin (1/92 - 10/30/92) Alfie (6/92 - 8/26/92) 3 Littermates of Alfie (6/92 - 8/92) Sydney (9/91 - 6/29/92) Sojourner Brown (6/90 - 6/26/92) Goldie (10/90 - 6/15/92) Amore (2/92 - 6/1/92) Otis (5/91 - 5/28/92) Prince Charles (9/91 - 5/20/92) Eddie (7/89 - 5/14/92) Holly (6/91 - 3/10/92) Dusty (7/90 - 10/12/91) Angel (4/91 - 6/29/91) Star (3/91 - 5/14/91) Jerry (12/90 - 4/14/91) Ginger (3/82 - 10/2/90) Oscar (5/89 - 5/7/90) Rocky (2/14/89 - 6/20/89) Casey (11/88 - 12/26/88) Ginger Mama (5/87 - 11/26/88) Old Fluffy (6/75 - 8/20/88) Puff (11/83 - 7/24/88) Chester (9/84 - 3/17/88) Daphne (9/84 - 2/12/85) I will not look back for there is sorrow. I will not look for today for there is longing. I will look forward for there is OUR tomorrow. CANDLE 2: SPECIAL NEEDS FUR CHILDREN Read the names of all those who are sick, injured, or have special circumstances. Sophia (for continued good health) Gina & JoAnn Luke four-year-old male (for continued success of treatment for felv and for a good home) Gina & Joann Rissa-Tai Pam & Chuck Howling Kitty four-year-old male with advanced lymphosarcoma & felv Arlene Grey Tabby in Little Rock, Arkansas (felv+, needs home) Cheri G. Misha Chere Together we unite to give thanks for the special pets who have improved in health and strength. We also, being of one heart, pray for the Mommies, Daddies, and little ones who struggle together against serious illness. We remember in quiet reverence the special ones who left us and we pray for the grieving families left behind. And we can never forget all who work to save the homeless and abused animals. Their burden is never light. With one heart, all are remembered and forever cherished by this family of love. CANDLE 3: FOR ACKNOWLEDGMENT AND PEACE In honor of all the homeless, forgotten, abandoned, abused animals. For the nameless little ones who gave their lives for others, for research and as a result of humankind's inhumanity. May the Higher Powers that be forgive the cruelty. We light this candle for them. As our lights shine brightly through the galaxy, may the angels smile upon us, and know that for a brief moment, we have put aside worldly differences to bond as ONE. CLOSING: I have sent you on a journey to a land free from pain, not because I did not love you, but because I loved you too much to force you to stay. MOMENT OF SILENCE. "Blessed are they that mourn, for they will be comforted." Love, light and healing to all. Amen. -------------------------------------- From: "Moermond, Barbara" To: "'felvtalk@MailingList.net'" Subject: RE: [Re: Rissa-Tai's bloodwork tests/Choices] Date sent: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:34:07 -0500 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net You go Judy and Jennifer!!! Couldn't have said it better myself. barb+ninja -------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:30:56 -0600 Subject: test To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi everybody, I think something's wrong w/ my e-mail! I can't send messages out. I sent the candle ceremony an hour ago...So I'm just seeing if I can get anything through--Just a test. Susan -------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:41:07 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: test Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Susan, I got the candle ceremony--thank you! nancy -------------------------------------- From: "Moermond, Barbara" To: "'felvtalk@MailingList.net'" Subject: RE: Ninja - (long) Date sent: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:48:33 -0500 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Gina and JoAnn, Thanks for the kind thoughts; I spent another wad on Saturday. (Fortunately, this clinic is very understanding about budgetary limitations.) Ninja has been "inappropriately eliminating", i.e. peeing everywhere, and my vet wanted to rule out a bladder infection even though Ninja doesn't have the cardinal symptoms. So, when I got home from work Friday, she had peed on the bed again and when I tried to give her her pred. pill, she had a seizure which was different than her norm. So, first this Saturday morning, I called the clinic and I was able to bring her in right away. They wanted to get a sterile sample (meaning using a needle to withdraw urine from the bladder), but Ninja is like her meowmie and can't pee at the doctor's! I had to leave her there for a few hours, and her bladder was the same size when I came back, but they were able to get a small sample and everything was completely normal - good pH and no crystals etc. Both of her eyes were dilated - the right more than the left as usual and her nictating membranes were extended more than usual as well. She had a marginal pupilary light response in her L eye and no response at all in the R eye. Her retinas are normal and she did respond by blinking at the bright light, so they said "she does appear to be able to see". The vet suggested checking her blood pressure and intraocular pressure since either of those can cause pupilary dilation if high. Her systolic was normal (90-100) and her IOP was low (L=6, R=8) and the vet suspects low grade uveitis - which is treated with pred anyway, so we're already taking care of that. Better news is that her heart murmur wasn't as noticeable today (Grade 2 from Grade 3) and they think it is stress related. Since she's been so stressed when I give her the pills, we opted for a shot of depo-medrol - which last for about 3 weeks. The first thing Ninja did when we got home was to pee in her chair ( an antique which my Gramma gave me ) and I then immediately saturated it with my enzyme cleaner. She slept in the closet for several hours and when she came out (so to speak!! she is such a feminist, I wish everybody on the list could meet her - everyone at the vets' office loves her) she went directly to her chair and curled up in the stain. She slept there for a good 18 hours without getting off the chair for anything. When I finally saw her moving, she just stood up, stretched and layed down on her other side. However, it looked like at some point, she had stood up, peed, and lay back down in it. She had gotten the shot in her right leg and she was mostly laying on her left side and the fur on her left hind leg was all rumpled and stinky. So I picked her up and took her into the bedroom and brushed her a lot; I am so glad I have been able to turn brushing into a lovey time! Well, I then soaked a washcloth and gave her a little sponge bath - under protest of course. It did have the desired effect; she shortly started to give herself a bath. I've spoken with the clinic and my vet feels that the lethargy is probably from whatever causes her seizures (we believe it is a meningioma). The peeing, however, is exacerbated by steroids, as some of us know. She had a couple of monster pees yesterday... IN THE BOX!!!! Thank the gods. The clinic also has a rather long recommendation list for "behavioral inappropriate urination" on which there are a couple things I wouldn't have thought of, but some of which I have already done or am doing. So, I barricaded her out of the living room today. She gave me such a pathetic look this morning when I said good bye to her. But I didn't feel REALLY bad, because I had saved some of my cod from dinner on Sunday (I actually went out!!) and gave it to her. She was still in deep within her lethargic "I can't keep my eyes open, it's just too hard..... This smells good, but I'm just too tired to eat it." It took her until this morning, but she ate all of her cod. No, she's not spoiled at all. The sun was shining this morning and we had some lovey time while she was sunning. If anybody on the list has had an abnormal reaction to a depo-medrol shot, please let me know; I will also search the archives. More later...... Barb+Ninja -------------------------------------- Date sent: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:32:19 -0400 From: Paula Sherrod To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: [Re: Rissa-Tai's bloodwork tests/Choices] Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I know what you mean...I was talking with someone at work about my mom's cat (epileptic and HAPPY) and telling her how the cat sometimes has seizures and pees all over the floor. "Why don't you put it to sleep?" is the response I got. I really respect cat lovers that really live up to the responsibility that having a furry friend entails. Paula -------------------------------------- From: "zimmerman" To: Subject: Vaccinations Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:13:19 -0400 Reply-to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hey, Since some of you, like me, have neg. & + cats together I'll tell you what my vet is recommending with a warning that vets will not agree on this & some will think it's medically incorrect or even Barb, I'm reading the archives & see you have medical knowledge & like to consider different ideas, so it will be interesting at you think. I have 2+ & 3 neg. cats & my vet says to vaccinate for FeLV every 6 months. He is 1 who believes vaccinating +'s (some say don't) may strengthen their immunity & he said it may make them "shed" le Will vaccinating neg.'s twice yearly be harmful or give them better protection? Since when the vac. is 1st given they get it twice 2 weeks apart - more frequently doesn't seem to be dangerous, My cats haven't had allergic reactions to vac.s & they handle "vet stress" pretty well. (They don't like the 4 min. car ride but are pretty cool once there.) If they get sick or "worn down" I woul Because of PVF there's research being done to see if vac.s can be given *farther* apart. But on the flip side, is it possible a vac. will protect high risk cats better if given *more* frequently? As for PVF, my understanding of Sylvia's site & other things I've read is that the multiple site protocol is for research, to reduce the risk, & that if it Since I don't vac. for rabies I can have my vet give the FeLV vac. So, it seems the *possible* benefits outweigh the *possible* ri Sorry for the length, I'm shy & don't usually "talk peoples ear Beth -------------------------------------- END