Wednesday April 22, 1998 Part 1 20 Messages ====================================== From: WORKPARK Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:06:44 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Vaccinations Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, I'm almost totally positive that I can speak for others when I say YOU GO GIRL!!!!!!!! Pam -------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 05:36:04 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Angela Holderby Subject: dehydrated? Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Since I got back from my weekend trip, Lefty seems to be feeling a 'little' better. He is able to get up and walk around occasionally (he still lays in the floor most of the time) and has walked to the litter box on his own. He is still able to pee (a lot) and is sipping water occasionally. How would I know if he was becoming dehydrated? These cats used to eat like pigs (one still does) but now Lefty doesn't eat much. He will take a few bites when food is offered, but not much. I was worried about dehydration the first day I had him home last week so I gave him several syringes full of water (he didn't like it, but he did swallow it) and I have seen him drinking some. He loves those little cat treats you can get at the discount stores. I am certain they are not very nutritious, but he has always loved them so I give him all he will eat--which is only a few at a time, but I feel like *any* food I can get into him is better than nothing. I have a new vet I am going to call today and talk to about treating them. Most of the vets around here say "We have to see them before we will even tell you if we will treat them". That is frustrating because I don't have the money to run from vet to vet not knowing if they just automatically put Felv+ cats to sleep or if they even try to treat them. I am hoping the one today has something positive to say because I have heard that they are very inexpensive and that will determine whether or not I am able to seek much treatment. If anybody has any ideas about the dehydration, please write to me. I am so new at this that I feel like I am just fumbling my way through. Lefty is so thin, but he does seem to be slightly stronger than he was a few days ago. The "vacant" look has left his eyes and he is purring more and more. Poncho (my other cat who is positive but has no symptoms yet) seems to be more aware that Lefty is not well. Yesterday he jumped on him to wrestle like they do all the time and Lefty yelled in pain. Later, I noticed that Lefty was trying to groom himself a little (small victory!) and Poncho was helping him. They also curled up together to nap for the first time since last week. I can't believe that only one week ago today Lefty began to not feel well. What a nasty downward spiral my world has taken since last week. I feel guilty, but when I think of all the things that he could have to go through, sometimes I wish he would just fall asleep and never wake up. I can't stand the thought of having to make **THE** decision. What a cruel, awful thing for any animal to be going through. Thanks for listening--nobody here really cares. Angela. -------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:47:32 +0200 From: Nina van Reenen To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: dehydrated? Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi... hope I can help a bit, and sure that the others can too... If he is still very young, dehydration can bring him to the brink of death in a very short space of time. To test for dehydration, pull some of his skin (on the torso or abdomen is the best) - if the skin resettles easily, you don't have a problem. If the skin just stays the way you pulled it, or resettles very slowly , you have a problem. Giving him a few syringes of water a day will not do the trick...depending on the weight of the animal he needs 5ml of water at least every two hours. Subcutaneous injected water (under the skin) will also do the trick but it is better for you not to try that if you have not done it before: any invasive action could do him more harm than good. If his dehydration is severe, he should perhaps be on a drip. Remember that he needs more than just water: you can get a mixture from your vet which is not expensive, which you can mix with his water to replenish body salts etc...this is very important. I am not a vet but have had a lot of experience with this type of thing so I hope I can help. At this point water is almost more important than food for a day or two - please add some glucose to the water as well for stamina. (Half a teaspoonful in half a cup of water will do the trick.) I don't know what type of medication he is on at the moment, so I cannot say much more than this....I do not that administering prednisone (half of a 5 mg tablet twice a day for about 3 days to start with) will increase his appetite and will add a little more bulk to his body, which will be very necessary if he has a long fight ahead of him.It also counteracts his anemia very successfully. The pred will have to be decreased at a later stage as the side effects can be pretty nasty but at this point you are ok to use that. Hope I have been of some help and please let us know how he is doing. Nina -------------------------------------- From: Bruce@act.org Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 98 10:09:11 CST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Vaccinations Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net This is to Barb. I am the new person. Thanks so much for the information. May I have your email? I have to get off the list because the volume is so high and this is my office email. I don't have one at home. My company is monitoring email coming from outside. Isn't that just great? I have a lot of questions for you and I feel that time is of the essence. Thanks again. Mary Bruce bruce@act.org -------------------------------------- From: AskforArt Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:31:45 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: dehydrated? Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Angela---The only way I know to check for dehydration is to pull the scruff of Lefty's neck up gently. Grasp the skin just above his shoulderblades and pull it up--if it snaps back, there's no dehydration. If the skin returns to the origianl position slowly then the cat is dehydrated. The slower the skin returns, the greater the dehydration. You can do this on the skin on the top of your hand, too, just to get an idea of what I mean. If Lefty is deydrated, call around until you can find a vet that will show you how to administer subcutaneous fluids at home. This way you will avoid the stress of additional visits to the vet, and it will save you money, too. I hate putting the needle into my cats skin, but I'd rather do that than put my cats through the stress of a trip to the vet. So, even if you're squeamish around needles, just remember you're doing it for your cat, not for you! Hope this helps. Linda P -------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:58:26 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Nutrical Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, Can't help out regarding the benzoate, but thanks for following up. Nancy -------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:01:03 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Angela Holderby Subject: Re: dehydrated? Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net To test for dehydration, pull some of his skin (on the torso or abdomen is the best) - if the skin resettles easily, you don't have a >problem. I am surprised, but his skin is just as supple and pliable as ever. It settled back just as it always has. I see him hovering over the water dish often, but not really drinking. He did drink a little this morning but just a few sips. Maybe he is drinking more than I am seeing. >you can get a mixture from your vet which is not expensive, which you can mix with his water to replenish body salts etc...this is very important. I am going to call today and see what I can find. I am also trying to find the Pet-tinic vitamins without having to order them. >I am not a vet but have had a lot of experience with this type of thing so I hope >I can help. > Any experience you have is more than I have. I don't have a clue what I am doing. I am just taking it one crisis at a time. I guess that is how everybody has learned. At this point water is almost more important than food for a day or two - please >add some glucose to the water as well for stamina. (Half a teaspoonful in half a >cup of water will do the trick.) Do you mean sugar? Or is this something I need to purchase at a vet also? (Told you I am a real rookie at this!) >I don't know what type of medication he is on at the moment, so I cannot say much >more than this....I do not that administering prednisone (half of a 5 mg tablet >twice a day for about 3 days to start with) will increase his appetite and will >add a little more bulk to his body, which will be very necessary if he has a long >fight ahead of him.It also counteracts his anemia very successfully. The pred >will have to be decreased at a later stage as the side effects can be pretty >nasty but at this point you are ok to use that. Presently, he is on NO medication. I have yet to find someone to treat him. Most of the vets in this area will give vitamins and wish you lots of luck. I am still making calls. I hope to be able to contact someone today to get him started on something. He is getting so thin that I am really worried, but he seems to be feeling better. For the first time this morning, I pulled him into bed with me and he snuggled up against me and purred just like he has done every night since I got him (8 months ago). >Hope I have been of some help and please let us know how he is doing. > I really appreciate ALL of the advice and help I have received on this list. I am convinced that without all of you I would have had him put to sleep already. I know there is some hope for him and until he lets me know that he's ready to go, I am not going to give up. -------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:10:01 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: dehydrated? Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Angela, Please don't depair about Lefty; he may have a lot more time left than you think. I will be anxious to hear what the vet has to say. It sounds like he really needs some interferon and immunoregulin and prednisone (I know there is some controversy regarding the latter, but I really think a dwindling dose of it can be life-saving). I agree; WHATEVER he'll eat, I'd feed him. Let us know ASAP about the vet. Good luck! Nancy -------------------------------------- From: "James G. Wilson" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:45:38 +0000 Subject: (Fwd) Re: curing Felv positive cats with Mega C Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Desert Sol Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:06:51 EDT To: belfield@best.com Cc: phaedrus@ctnet.net, ccmyers1@erols.com, arora@uor.edu, abuys@voice.com (Albert Buys), felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: curing Felv positive cats with Mega C In a message dated 98-04-21 14:29:43 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: curing Felv positive cats with Mega C Date: 98-04-21 14:29:43 EDT From: belfield@best.com (Orthomolecular Specialities) To: DesertSol@aol.com (Desert Sol) I'm sorry this address is for orders only and I can not guarantee you a response from Dr. Belfield. I would like to say that Dr. Belfield is fully aware of and follows his oath. However the makers of the Felv vaccine do not take such an oath. I would like to add that you obviously do not doubt the Felv vaccine yet felines who have received it can and have gotten the virus. Have you also wirtten to those who developed the vaccine to have them convince you that it works? You must remember the products that Dr. Belfield has developed are vitamin supplements not drugs and if you have any doubts at all about his claims you do not have to purchase them. Thank you, Suzan Belfield >> << You must remember the products that Dr. Belfield has developed are vitamin supplements not drugs and if you have any doubts at all about his claims you do not have to purchase them.>> Dear Suzan, Anyone has a right to doubt unsubstantiated claims about products. You, I would hope, are no different in that regard. All I am asking for is some hard research evidence, from multiple sources preferably, that Dr. Belfield's products do what he says they do. If that is a problem, then it quite rightly makes one suspicious of the products. If he has proof, then share it. I would flock to his products if convinced by the evidence. <> I do not understand this defensive remark. Unless you read minds, you cannot know my opinions one way or the other regarding the FeLV vaccine. This kind of defensiveness and inference on your part tends to make me even more suspicious of Dr. Belfield's products, regardless of his stature in veterinary medicine. If he offers true cures and hopes for cat lovers and owners the world over, then be willing and proud to prove it when asked, not defensive and pert. This is not too much to ask, in a world filled with sham and trickery. Sincerely, Richard Hunter -------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:39:51 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Angela Holderby Subject: I FOUND HELP!!!!!!!!!! Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net After another day of calling vets and running into dead ends, I think I have finally found someone who is willing to treat my precious Lefty! I called one vet and was told that they would treat him with fluids as needed. When I asked to speak to the vet, he told me that they didn't use interferon drugs because they didn't see much success with them, but he recommended another vet clinic that does use it frequently. He told me that if they didn't want to treat Lefty that he would be willing to--just call him back. I was thrilled. THEN, I called the other one and talked to the sweetest receptionist on earth. I explained the problem and she said that she personally has 3 felv+ cats. Two of which she got from a man who brought them to be put to sleep--she talked him into letting her keep them. She said she has 3 positive cats who have no symptoms. She said they just adopted one positive cat out and have 2 more for adoption. Her exact words were "We have a very soft heart for these cats here." I am so happy I am crying. She also said the office call is $16.00 and they will give me enough interferon for a month for about $5.00. She said in the future, unless I just wanted the cats to be seen, I can just come and pick the medication up. She said unless he was almost dead, they would find something to help him. I AM SO HAPPY I CAN'T STAND IT!!!!!! I told her about you all and how wonderful you have been to help me. I owe Lefty's life (probably Poncho's life also) and my current happiness to you all. Thanks so much for helping us. I live in a farming community where the attitude is if it can't be healed, shoot it. Not heartless people, just the way they have done things for a hundred years. I always tell my husband that if I break my leg, don't tell anybody because these people may shoot me! (Or 'put me down' as they say.) Well, my car bit the dust yesterday so I have to find a car, but I think I am going to try to get Lefty to the clinic tomorrow. Until then, just wish me luck that I can keep him from getting any worse. Thanks again to all you wonderful people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Angela (who is so excited she can't sit still!!!!!!!!!!!) -------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:49:51 +0200 From: Nina van Reenen To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: I FOUND HELP!!!!!!!!!! Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Angela......... I know exactly how you feel.......SO very glad for you........ Keep us posted ok? -------------------------------------- From: macat@webtv.net (belinda sauro) Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:03:48 -0700 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: I FOUND HELP!!!!!!!!!! Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Angela, I'm so happy for you, I had a little tear well up when I read your post. Good-luck, I hope the new Vet is as good as h/she sounds! Belinda Happiness is being owned by cats... Come see why I'm so happy... http://come.to/Be-Mi-Kitties www.geocities.com/heartland/estates/7122 -------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:38:50 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: I FOUND HELP!!!!!!!!!! Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Angela, I am so happy for you--this is wonderful news. Please do try and get Lefty to the vet ASAP though. This disease can cause problems VERY fast. I know you think he's better and he may be, but cats are very good at hiding their problems and the sooner you can get some interferon for him, the better. Good luck with getting a car. I am really ecstatic that you found a good vet! nancy -------------------------------------- From: "Equinox Corp." To: "'felvtalk@MailingList.net'" Subject: RE: I FOUND HELP!!!!!!!!!! Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:05:26 -0700 Reply-to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Angela, Sounds like you're on your way to breathing little easier. I'm very relieved. I did think about Lefty & was concerned for him while you were away. In the future, if you're worried about dehydration, just get a feeding bottle,(from a pet store, they have them for new borns) and dip the tip in milk or tuna juice, this way you can cuddle Lefty in your arm & get some water in to him. please tell Lefty to get strong & healthy. I'm planning on sending them six guns & Sombreroes on their birthday. Take Care, Saliha -------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:23:08 +0000 From: LawBet Organization: Home for Wayward Felines To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: I FOUND HELP!!!!!!!!!! Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Angela, Normally, I do not post many messages to this list. That's why I started out signing my messages "Larry (The Lurker)". I have no FeLV+ kitties but do have 13 healthy ones. I post only when I have something I feel very adament about or if I can provide some moral support. In your case, one of the sentences in your message really got to me because I have experienced it so much and it is something that has always kicked off my very volitile temper. That was where you said the folks in your community "...have done things for a hundred years". I am a retired army officer and it took the people who worked for me about 10 minutes to learn that when I asked them why they were doing something a particular way, the answer they NEVER, EVER wanted to give me was "that's the way we've always done it." This attitude negates change, progress, free-thinking, intelligent thought, discovery, improved efficiency, and NEW TREATMENTS FOR FELV!! You will find that NONE of the good folks on this list suffer from this attitude. They have a wealth of new ideas; they train their own vets in implementing these ideas; no new idea goes unexplored. They have only one objective: eliminate this disease! Not all ideas work for everybody. But the key is that they are there for you to try and they will be offered free of charge and through the goodness of their hearts. There are people from South Africa, Canada, the US, and heaven knows where else on this list. Governments worldwide could take some lessons from them. So you lean on these folks when you need it. There have been failures but every day, week or month that life is extended is a victory. If the combined will of all these folks have any bearing, Lefty will be fine. Larry -------------------------------------- Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:30:34 +0000 From: LawBet Organization: Home for Wayward Felines To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Vaccinations Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Bruce, My MUCH YOUNGER sister Barb's e-mail is: newtanator@aol.com. I send this cause she may not be home form work before you leave work. Larry -------------------------------------- From: "Claude Horstmann" To: Subject: Nutri-Cal update Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:24:59 -0400 Reply-to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I just got off the phone with a Dr. Chaudhri, he's in charge of the Lab at IGI Inc. He listened to my questions and took my telephone number and called me back within 20 minutes. He is interested in having more information regarding the Benzoate and said that when he receives the letters he will take them to the Research and Development Dept and they will discuss the possibility of changing the preservative. He also mentioned that one of his colleagues received a similar query yesterday, but should have brought the call to his attention. {atta girl, barb !}. I need a new ink cartridge ( go figure ?) but thought some of you might be interested in joining me in this endeavor. Here's the address: I G I Inc. 711 Harding Hwy Buena, New Jersey 08310 Attention: Dr. Chaudhri I did take his fax number for you cutting edge folk who might have fax machines: 609-697-8554 Either this man is the most charming man ( relax Lurker) or he's sending a squad to remove me and my cat from the planet ! Stay tuned. .marilyn. -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:13:44 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Vaccinations Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Mary, Sure, I'm at Newtanator@aol.com Any questions are welcome. Glad I didn't scare you off with my soap-boxing yesterday. barb -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:18:06 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: curing Felv positive cats with Mega C Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Jim, Folks that defensive have no hard research to back them up. Fact is, there is NO vaccine company that I am aware of that claims 100% protection and they have done studies to try and find out how effective they are, but I believe animal rights groups have asked them to stop infecting innocent kittens to continue testing the % of protection. barb -------------------------------------- From: "Carol Gentry" To: Subject: From Carol in Vancouver Date sent: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:27:39 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Have been trying to get caught up on everyones mail. Just to much. I have not read or wrote for some time because of moving and my computer was unplugged. But I thought I would let you all know that I have done it again. I'll try to make the story short. About a month ago I was just sitting in the Family Room and I happened to lool up and here came this "thing" up on the deck obviously looking for food. I say thing because at first I really wasn't sure what it was. After I realized that it was a kitty I went and got some of the food that Sasha had liked and my other kitties won't touch. I put some on a paperplate and shoved it toward "it". It ate and then promptly scurried off. The next night same thing. This went on for about two weeks. Keep in mind I had never seen this kitty around until that night. Well after two weeks she would let me touch the top of her head and she wasn't as afraid as she was in the beginning. Well I made the decision that I needed to catch her and get her to the vet. My first thought was of course that she could have been the kitty that gave my Sasha Lukemia and I didn't want any other kitty's to get it. So I set a carrier out on the deck so she would get used to it being there and alerted the vet that I may be bringing in this "thing". Well I got her that night and she spent the night in the carrier along with three bowls of food which she ate. The next morning she went to the vet to have her blood test and see what kind of shape she was in. Well she is Felv Neg but she was so matted that they had to shave her. They gave her a Lion cut. She had five tumors on her side which have been removed and they were all negative and on May 5th she has her back teeth pulled because they are very infected and the antibiotics haven't worked. The reason for telling this story is to us it's almost like Sasha sent this little thing to us to take care of and I must admit it has made loosing Sasha a lot easier. We named her Allie and she is 10 years old. She has been fixed and has quite the little attitude. She even growls like a dog. But she is a sweet little thing and has many of the same traits that Sasha did. Anyway I thought you might all like to hear why I haven't been around and for all of you that are going through trying times with your kitties, hang in there. Carol from Vancouver -------------------------------------- END