Tuesday April 21, 1998 Part 2 20 Messages ====================================== Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:34:32 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Rubin's update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net JoAnn and Gina, I think the appetite and spirits speak for themselves! Hopefully, Rubin's blood count will reflect their positive effect! Nancy -------------------------------------- Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:37:37 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Pet Food Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Ann, I use the Mega C drops and powder on 3 of my cats (the only ones who will eat it)--none are FELV. However, someone many months ago (from this list) informed me it does not work (regarding the + to negative) if the cats have been vaccinated and all mine have, including the FELV+ ones. Nancy -------------------------------------- Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:40:46 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Rissa-Tai is improving some Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Pam, this is wonderful about Rissa-Tai! Enjoy! Nancy -------------------------------------- Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:44:51 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Tucker's Status Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Glen, Are you giving Tucker Pet Tinnic? That should help with the anemia which it sounds like he has. Nancy -------------------------------------- Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:52:03 +0200 From: Nina van Reenen To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Moducare Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi all I have just started using Moducare...one third of the contents of a capsule per cat. The powder is totally odorless and tasteless and is well tolerated. The manufacturers also say that Moducare is available in the States...has anyone used it yet? Nina -------------------------------------- From: Bruce@act.org Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 98 14:11:41 CST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Moducare Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hello! I am new to the list and have a couple of questions. I'm sure they've been covered, so bear with me. I have one felv pos cat and two who have tested neg with the ELISA test. Should I have them all tested with the IFA? Will my other guys get it? These are cats who were raised together. I have read the online FAQ. I know the pos guy should be isolated, etc. etc. This is impossible for me. So I want to know if there is anyone out there with a similar situation. The cats are not too friendly, and the pos guy kind of keeps to himself. He is not sick now. They do chase and play once in a while and sniff and nudge each other somewhat. I panic every time my neg kitties have runny eyes or act funny or anything. I am very wary of all vaccinations, now, having changed my opinion of them. My pos guy was vaccinated for the virus and appears to have gotten it anyway. All my cats look healthy and seem quite well. I have read Diane Stein's book "Natural Healing for Dogs and Cats," and also Richard Pitcairn's book and Anitra Frazier's book and I am really into natural stuff, with no vaccinations. Up until this year they have been vaccinated and the pos guy, because he went out, had every vaccination that they make. Now I regret having done that to him. Thank you. Sorry for being so wordy. Mary Bruce bruce@act.org -------------------------------------- Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:21:40 +0200 From: Nina van Reenen To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Prednisone Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi all... For how long can one use pred without too many adverse side effects? It has improved that health of my three sick babies so much I actually shudder to think that I will have to take them off it. I have started Moducare today and hope this will make this possible. Nina -------------------------------------- Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:52:44 +0200 From: Nina van Reenen To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: CoQ10 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi... I would also like to know whether anyone knows if it is available in South Africa... Nina -------------------------------------- From: "James G. Wilson" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:00:08 +0000 Subject: Two Announcements Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi everyone, I've added two new pieces of information to the FeLV FAQ sheet- thanks to Pam (Rissa-Tai's meowmy). They answer questions about dimethylglycine (DMG) and hemobartinella. You can find them in Part One of the FAQ at: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/8025/ If anyone has other contributions they'd like to add to this FAQ, please send them to me privately, and I'll do my best to get them added asap. The other announcement involves the search engine for the FeLVTalk archives. Since I don't yet have true cgi access on any of our information sites, I'm having to (temporarily) go with a JAVAscript type search engine. What this means to the group is- you'll need to use a "JAVA-enabled" web browser to be able to use this function. This is most important to AOL users since only their newest version of web browsing has this function. If you are unsure about this, please contact me privately for more details. The search engine won't be up until at least the end of the week, so there is time to get a new browser if need be. Take care, and best wishes to all. In loving memory of Vyvyan: March 20, 1988 - August 15, 1997 James G. Wilson- phaedrus@ctnet.net http://www.angelfire.com/il/felv/ http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/8025/ http://www.fortunecity.com//skyscraper/sterling/20/niu.html -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:35:53 EDT To: felvtalk@Mailinglist.net Subject: Nutrical Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net All, I called the Nutrical people today. Someone posted an 800 number allowing me to call them from work, which was nice. Ok, I spoke to a woman and gave her our concerns. She got my number and said she would call back after making some calls. She called back about 45 minutes later and said she had called one of the VP's right after talking to me, he in turn went to the references of their tests, the Veterinarian specialist they consulted and looked up Sodium Benzoate and the FDA studies done. They always have animal nutrition specialists make their products such as Nutrical. He could find no reference to Sodium Benzoate being poisonous or toxic to cats. He also checked to see if there had been any complaints and there was none. She related a story that they also make a product for puppies, some kind of drops, and it was found that there was something in those that MIGHT injure certain pups sensive to it and they immed. pulled it out of the product. (no cheap thing to stop production, change it, the labeling, informing vets etc, --She did not say that, I'm adding that) I then asked her how much was in Nutrical and she had to call me back again. In about 10 minutes she did and told me there is 0.1%. Has anyone found a second reference to Sodium Benzoate being toxic to cats other that the one book? Bottom line I guess will be it will have to be an individual decision to use it or not. After talking to these folks, I think if we can find viable research proving it is harmful, they would remove it. I went to the library and got this book but have unable to find the page it is refered to. Can someone help me out? barb -------------------------------------- From: Rdmacaulay Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:39:34 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Food for Fitzgerald Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Saliha, Yes, I've just put both Fitz and Armstrong on the raw diet recommended in Frazier's Natural Cat book. They don't like it much, so I'm having to cheat a little by mixing in some of their old food, which I know she is strongly against. I'll have to experiment some to get the right "edible" mix. Also made the Vita-Mineral mix, which I think is the unappetizing culprit. Also, Vitamin A & D, Steve's Vitamin C & Aloe vera, etc. elixir. He's not great, not awful at the moment. Will see if this has any effect. Unfortunately, he's still on the pred. Am afraid to stop that completely. Will let you know how he does. --Rachel -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:42:00 EDT To: felvtalk@Mailinglist.net Subject: Vaccinations Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net ?????, Sorry for the ??'s but I some how lost the letter and who the new person was the wrote it, but I remember enough that was on it to respond. First, welcome to the group. I'm one the "old timers". Brief history. Mulitcat house, Brought in FeLV, cats not vaccinated, 5 dead, two still here, but positive. Now, still multicat house, (16) newcomers isolated until two weeks after the last FeLV shot, no new cases. This is a topic I get very passionate about. I do not wish on anyone the pain that has been suffered in this house because I didn't vaccinate my cats. FeLV is an insidious virus. You can bring your kitten home, have it tested, get it"s shots and then, one day, your cat is sick. You take it to the vet and he says, "let's test for FeLV". Confident your cat is disease free, you faint dead away when it comes back positive. First, from 10 to 30% of all cats tested will come back negative in both the ELISA and the IFA tests and still have the disease.(THE MERCK VERTERINARY MANUAL) Your cat can be born with it and show not ONE symptom, not one, for years and years. And then, one day, it gets a cold, it is put under stress for some reason and FeLV raises it's ugly head. If your cat already has the disease, of course the shots will not keep him from getting it. The vaccination protection varies from 30% to 90%. I think it is prob somewhere in the 75% area, depending on the manufacturer. I will take whatever I can get. There was a time when Small Pox killed millions, when Polio crippled and killed millions. Is there a small percent that got the disease from the vaccine? (polio) Yes. Where there a small (very small) percent that died from the vaccine? Yes. Was that tragic? Yes, of course it was. Because of vaccines, those two diseases are all but gone. Not dead, but at least neutralized for the most part. There are children this very day dying from Whooping Cough because their parents decided it was against their religion, or because their neighbor said she knew someone who's child got sick from the vaccine. Or if you feed your child a vegetarian diet, they will be immune from all the diseases. When their kids don't get the measles or whatever they brag, "see, told you" . What has actually happened is "passive vaccination". That is, because all the children around them were vaccinated and didn't catch the disease, their child was never exposed to it. Now when that kid goes off to college or what ever, and is exposed to the mumps, it will have tragic results, esp if male. I believe there is no homeopathic or holistic med or diet or drink that will keep your child or your cat safe from infectious diseases. Does this mean I am against either? Not at all, I have used both. But I believe, used with modern medicine, (who does not have all the answers either), we have the best of all worlds. Not having your letter to refer back to, I THINK you said all your cats had been vaccinated. That is probably why the other two do not have it. Is there any need to separate them now? No, I don't isolate mine either. Once the newbees have their shots, they are free to mingle. Am I taking a risk? Yes, but no cat enters this house who would not be dead if I had not taken them in. Every day they have here is one they would not have had. Will I get them their shots without fail? You bet. My Kallie and Newt and Duncan would be alive today if they had had theirs. The other two, Socrates was the orginal carrier and my dear little Merlin had it when I got him. I just lost he and Duncan last month. I may still lose Lor and Ariel before it's done in this house, I don't know. So, after this long disortation, should you continue to vaccinate? That is a personal decision of course, but if you think it will hurt to lose one, try losing 5, with two in the wings. I don't mean to offend, but as I said, this one topic I am VERY passionate about and firmly believe in. barb -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:44:33 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Tucker's Status Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Glen, I got this tip from a feline oncologist in Ann Arbor. Put one drop of the interferon in each nostril daily. This helps knock out the pesky URI. It worked for Merlin. barb -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:47:43 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Pet Food Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I am curious as to the rational that this Mega C will not work on a cat that has been vaccinated. Why? The vaccine is a killed virus, it can't give the cat the disease. All it does is alert the cat's immune system what virus to have defenses against should it be exposed. Can anyone explain it to me? barb -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:56:21 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Prednisone Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Nina, How long would probably depend on how big a dose the cat has been receiving. I am amazed at some of the high doses some cats are on. 5-10mg, two times a day. This is an adult human dose in many cases. In my studies of steroids, cats can have "flash backs" up to two years after complete stopage if put under enough stress. That is have an adrenal crisis. But to use or not to use is up to you. Many have had good luck with it, but I personally have found it to be temporary. barb -------------------------------------- From: "Steve Lackow" To: Subject: Re: Food for Fitzgerald Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:27:40 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net When changing kitty's food, even from roadkill, do so gradually, mixing together until the new food has entirely taken the place of the old. Otherwise, kitty may reject the food, which in an FeLV cat is plenty serious. BTW, let's recognize a matter of degree here. While all commercial food is less than desireable -- and that goes for human consumption, too -- there is quite a difference between what goes into Hills and Iams vs 9 Lives & Friskies vs Kitty Queen. I find it terribly irresponsible to categorically dismiss commercial food, and this comes from someone who is largely a lacto-ovo veggie and has pretty much dismissed all commercial food. -- Steve -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:42:32 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Rissa-Tai is improving some Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Pam, A preview of my FAQ on the immune system. There are 5 types of WBC's: Neutrophils (55%) Eosinophils (1-2%) Basophils (0.5-1%) Monocytes (6%) and Lymphocytes (36%) Without getting to indepth here, there is a factor referred to as Colony Stimulation Factor or CSF. The CSF is believed to act directly upon the stem cell's colony forming units in the bone marrow, committing them to differentiation to the neutrophil and monocyte cell lines. These cells divide and then mature. Neutrophils take about 12 days to fully mature. Bone marrow contains a constant reserve pool of about 10 times the quantity of neutrophils produced daily. However, once released, they only live about 6-8 hours. In response to an acute infection, neutrophils leave the marginating pool and enter the area of infection: the bone marrow releases its reserve pool and initiates an accelerated granulopoiesis. Because of the increased number of immature forms called band (or stab) neutrophils enter the circulation, a process called "shift to the left" occurs. This refers to the way they come out on a lab result. The neutrophils, being the most plentyful, are the left , so an increase in them is called a shift to the left. (real technical, huh) According to my reseach material, as the infection subsides, the neutrophils decrease and the monocytes increase. With continued resolution, the monocytes decrease and the lymphocytes and eosinohphils increase. So a lower neutrophil count may not be all bad. The body is gauging what type of wbc it needs and is putting it out. Since the Neutrophil takes about 12 days to mature in normal circumstances, it should, (should) be coming back to normal soon. If they do, it would seem to me anyway,(remembering that I am NOT a vet nor an MD) that Rissa's bone marrow is funtioning as it should. All her blood work, tho slowly, seems to be heading upwards. Anyway, as I said, the immune system is an incredibly complicated and fine tuned system. When working properly, it is a thing of beauty. When it's not...... I hope this helps you. If you are near a library, I would suggest you do some research on it. It is a very interesting topic. My work continues.....barb -------------------------------------- From: AskforArt Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:56:03 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Pet Food Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb--My cats were given a modified live virus vaccine--maybe it's the alteration of the virus? I didn't get a specific answer as to WHY the C protocol wasn't effective on vaccinated cats, and I had that conversation with Belfield's office over a year ago, so my memory of the conversation is not great, anyway! All I remember is that they told me not to bring my cats in for the therapy, because they'd had their shots. Linda P -------------------------------------- From: AskforArt Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:49:16 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Food for Fitzgerald Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb--Rachel's letter jogged my memory--in Diane Stein's book " The Naural Remedy Book for Dogs and Cats" , page 33, she states "Watch for and avoid aloe preserved with sodium benzoate or benzoic acid, as this is poisonous to cats." Linda P -------------------------------------- From: AskforArt Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:44:18 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Nutrical Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb--Dr. Pitcairn's "Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats" states on page 40:"...it is important to avoid any pet supplements containing the preservative sodium benzoate, especially for cats, for whom this preservative is a poison." I don't have Anitra Frazier's book, so I do't know if there is a reference there. I looked up sodium benzoate in my medical dictionary. Sodium benzoate is "the sodium salt of benzoic acid and is used as an antifungal agent in pharmaceutical preparatons, and may be used as a test for liver function." Benzoic acid is an acid from benzoin and other resins from coal tar, used as an antifungal agent in pharmaceuticals..." Maybe check with Belfield's site, or a query to Cornell. It would be nice to have a definitive answer. Linda P -------------------------------------- END