Saturday April 18, 1998 Part 1 20 Messages ====================================== From: Boonedagel Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 01:00:10 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Copies to: Rdmacaulay@aol.com Subject: Re: Update on Fitzgerald Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net If your gut says go, it is usually so. Find another vet, that cares and has a staff that cares, FeLV+ or not. sincerely, greg & Pooters II -------------------------------------- From: WORKPARK Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 04:59:38 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Rissa-Tai's latest vet appnt. Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi all, Went to the vet today. Rissa-Tai is down to 5 lbs. 12 oz, although we didn't think she had lost that much weight from her nausea. This didn't make us or the vet happy at all. The vet said to stop the antibiotics since there was only one more dose and wait to see what her cbc and protein electrophoresis results were. We haven't heard back from the vet that the lab has sent in the results - hopefully tomorrow. We also decided to give her the steroid injection rather than the pills for right now, this way, she gets a little break from being pilled. She was given an injection of DepoMedrol for this. So, today was her first pill-free day in a very long while, and she seems happier. Her tongue looks really pink, so we're crossing our fingers for some better news. She also seemed to have more appetite today. We are really going to try to get her weight up. The vet also suggested that we try a drop or two of tuna juice mixed with the Ambrotose instead of water to make it a little more appealing to her, since it doesn't really smell enticing.. I thought that was a great idea, and figured I'd pass it along here. I also spoke with the vet about the receptionist's attitude. I explained that the Oncologist thought that Rissa-Tai wa pretty much gone after speaking with Dorisa, and that I felt that Dorisa was letting her personal opinions affect my cat's treament, and that it wasn't her decision to make. She apologized and said she would talk to her staff. I explained that the rest of the staff wasn't the problem, that I liked Dorisa, but have a real problem with this, and if the staff also feels that way to please let me know and I would go find someone willing to work with us. She again apologized, and explained that as I probably well understood that the staff has now gotten close to my cat and myself and are frustrated with Rissa-Tai's ups and downs as well, that they also wished she was doing better, and that no harm was intended - that they are also depressed that she hasn't just gotten extremely better. I understand this, and told her so, but also asked her to look at Rissa - she doesn't look like she's ready to go, and until she tells us in so many ways that she is, we are going to continue to try. She also apologized and took the responsibility for not better explaining that all the Tetracycline derivatives are notorious for upsetting our babies' tummies, that although Rissa didn't react to the Tetracycline that she could react to the Doxycycline in time. Anyway, hopefully this will take care of the situation, as the vet seemed sincerely concerned, if not, we'll look for someone else. We don't have the time to play around with this, as I'm sure all of us on this list know. Will post again once we find out the results of her bloodwork. Pam -------------------------------------- From: WORKPARK Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 05:19:43 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: (Fwd) Angela Holderby Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Angela, Before anything else, where are you? Please post and let us know - maybe one of us can recommend a vet to you, or even help you while you go away. FeLV+ cats do need special care. I would suggest that you no longer give your cats the people vitamins, but ask a vet about getting you some Pet-Tinic. Also, get them both on Immunoregulin and Interferon. Have a vet check for Hemobart, and if so, get an antibiotic (Tetracycline, if that doesn't work, Doxycycline, and if that doesn't do it, try Baytrill along with the Doxycycline). Also, there is some dissension about the use of Prednisone, but it does work to help the cat get back on it's feet. Please update us with their conditions. Pam -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 07:19:44 +0200 From: Nina van Reenen To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: (Fwd) Angela Holderby Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Angela... I am not at all as knowledgeable as our other members....but there is hope.....hang in there... Nina -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 00:26:29 -0500 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Ann M Blais Subject: Rissa-Tai Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Pam, I've been thinking about you and Rissa-Tai and wondering how things went today. Hope she is feeling better by now. Ann M. -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 00:44:59 -0500 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Ann M Blais Subject: Re: Rubin Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Gina & JoAnn, Hello and welcome to the list, it's a great list with lots of help and advice. I'm fairly new myself and have benefitted from the knowledge these wonderful people here share with others. I have a 1 year old positive kitty, Gretchen, that is doing pretty well right now and it's mostly through the knowledge gained from this list and shared with my vet. Rubin sounds like a wonderful cat who fought a battle to live and has survived. I hope he keeps on winning his battles. Ann M. -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 05:39:39 -0400 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Angela Holderby Subject: Re: (Fwd) Angela Holderby Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net >Before anything else, where are you? Please post and let us know - maybe one >of us can recommend a vet to you I didn't even think to say where I was. I live in southern Ohio, the very bottom tip of the state. I am very close to Huntington, West Virginia and Ashland, Kentucky. I can be in either state in about 20 minutes. The vet I currently use is in Chesapeake, Ohio. Treating Lefty just doesn't seem to be a priority for them, but on the other hand, I have three small children and recently had surgery myself so I don't have a lot of money to spend on Lefty. Please don't think that I don't love him dearly, because I truly do, but I just can't spend thousands of dollars on him--although I would if I had it. Thanks so much for those who have written with advice. I will definitely look into the other vitamins. I have printed out a ton of stuff about this disease from the internet and ut it into a ring-bound notebook so that I can read in the car on my trip. If anyone has a particular site that they find helpful, please send it to me privately so that I can make sure I have all the info. I can get. And I want to apologize if I do anything that is not proper on this list. I have learned that every list has its own personality and its own style and I usually try to lurk for awhile before I jump in and start posting. Unfortunately, I cannot allow myself the privilege of lurking for a few weeks when time is this critical. If I do something that is not proper, please write to me and tell me so I can be more careful in the future. I have seen people get blasted on other lists for not deleting a post before replying and other such stuff and I really don't mean to offend anyone--I just am not familiar with your style yet. On a more positive note, I went to bed at midnight and got back up at 4:30 and Lefty seems much more alert just in that short amount of time. He was walking around a bit more and he is eating and drinking. He looks around with a more 'interested' attitude. I feel a little better about leaving him--although I wish I didn't have to go at all. I am going to read all I can while I am gone and then next week I am going to go in search of some of the things I think will benefit him. I am very interested in some of the aloe derivitives that are being used. If anyone has info. on this, I would love to read it. Thanks again for making me feel like somebody actually cares about what we are going through--and I am certain Lefty thanks you, too. Angela. -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:18:25 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Update on Fitzgerald Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Rachel, This is the place to vent. It helps to get the feelings out and not choke on them. First the extremely ignorant receptionist should just be ignored. FeLV is not transmitted that way and being a pencil pusher prob didn't know that. Yes, HIV patients are used to that kind of treatment. There are still stupid people who think you can "catch" cancer to. I am always amazed at some peoples lack of active brain cells. Now to Fitz. This may be a long shot, but has his blood sugar been checked? This is not part of a CBC, but I would be surprized if it has been missed in all the visits you had. What made me think of it was the shaking and tremors. This is a classic symptom of low blood sugar. It is also know now that cat can have Addison's disease. With this disease, they actually HAVE to have steroids to live. I was puzzled as to why they decided Fitz needed Neupogen. Was his White cell count very low? One dose will not correct this overnight. Yes, it is expensive and it does work, but not overnight. One of those test had to be wrong. It does happen from time to time that a lab result is wrong. I guess at this point the only other thing I could suggest is a spinal tap. AFTER the blood sugar has been tested if this has not been done. For the Addison's I think Aldosterone levels need to be checked, but I will have to look that up to be sure. Your film makers? I see a perfect topic right there in Fitz. I will do some checking and get back to you. take care barb -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 07:37:13 -0400 From: Andrew Sherrod To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Update on Fitzgerald Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I'm so sorry about that experience at the vets. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to search a lot for a vet that will even try! My vet and the techs always treated George with dignity and love-they cried when we lost her too. I sure hope you can find a good vet soon and hope your kitties are fine. Paula -------------------------------------- From: "Cheri Gardiner" To: Subject: Re: Fitzgerald Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:21:39 -0600 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Ann, I feel the same way. Some people at work think I'm crazy I spend money and time on my two cats. Guess they don't understand love is without price, especially the unconditional love we get from our furangels. Cheri G., Kitty & Chaz In memory of my little boy Mickey -------------------------------------- From: "Cheri Gardiner" To: Subject: Re: (Fwd) Angela Holderby Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:27:31 -0600 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Angela, This list will help you greatly. I have my two FeLV+ Cats on A protocol of Interferon. I can mail you some to help yours. It's fairly expensive, but I have a huge bottle and have frozen some of it. I could express mail it in dry ice. Just send me your address to me via private e mail. It will help. I give it to my cats for seven days and then off seven days. You give it to them orally with a syringe. Just shot it over their tongue. Let me know if you want it. I'll be glad to share (no cost). Cheri G., Kitty & Chaz In memory of my little boy Mickey -------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 06:56:44 -0600 Subject: Re: (Fwd) Angela Holderby To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Angela, You have come to the right place. You are very welcome here and have not done anything improper. Not all of the treatments are expensive. The aloe derivitives seem to work well. Ambrotose and Vitamin C seem to have been working very well for many kitties on our list. I have saved posts on this topic if you need that info but I suspect at least one of the many well-informed individuals on this list will give you more on that. I am very familiar with the "three-ring binder." I compiled FeLV info in much the same way, trying to save my Ernie. Of course your Lefty and your other kitty (name?) seem good candidates for interferon and immunoregulin and these medicines are not too expensive. The one thing I can tell you is that all this info on various treatments can be overwhelming so try to take it easy on yourself. It sounds like you are already under enormous stress. Again, take care and welcome to the list. Susan -------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 07:49:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Rissa-Tai's latest vet appnt. To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi, Pam, Boy, you should do a Q & A on interpersonal communications with vet and staff. Dealing with a professional in a professional, straight-forward, and assertive manner is so important. There are few things more difficult than dealing with an unmotivated health care provider and/or staff. Your maintaining a sense of objectivity during such a stressful time is admirable. You have really straightened things out, cleared the air. By the way, I also recently found your discussion on nutrition (very well done) on the FeLv info sheet and have also copied it for my file. Even though right now there are no FeLV+ cats at the shelter where I'm helping out, I plan to be ready when we get one. I, too, am disappointed to hear of Rissa-Tai's weight loss, but everything else sounds optimistic. (I think I'll write a poem about pink-tongued kitties--to all of us a symbol of promise and hope, yes?!) Susan -------------------------------------- From: "Claude Horstmann" To: Subject: Fitzgerald Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:40:27 -0400 Reply-to: felvtalk@MailingList.net It was kinda stormy here last night, I posted a message to Rachel at her e-mail rather than the group address- and it was just as well. There was no activity on the MailingList until this morning. And I encouraged her to try to work a program of supplements and vitamins into her care plan, and get the Ambrotose. I hope she got the word, if not, it's here now. I was deeply touched by her posting- I'm sure we all were- and I hope that the little fellow is enjoying a reprieve from the pain,- courtesy of the Prednisone. .marilyn. -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:37:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Rissa-Tai's latest vet appnt. Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Pam, Good for you--I guess more of us need to stand up when we feel we're not being treated properly! Hope Rissa-Tai's bloodwork has improved. What a great idea about the tuna juice! Nancy -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:52:51 -0500 (CDT) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: (Fwd) Angela Holderby Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Angela, Welcome! I am so glad your vet encouraged you to keep both cats alive. I know you've researched much information and already have had posts from this talk group so I will just pass on my experience to you in the hopes that you might gain some information from it. I have 2 FELV+ cats at present--jake was my sickest cat. Last October he was very lethargic, wasn't eating or purring and when I took him to the vet, he had a hematocrit of 11--almost transfusion time. My vet first treated him for hemobartinella (blood parasite) without testing him. I understood the test to be nonconclusive (sometimes you must repeat and repeat the test to find the little buggers) so I asked her to just go ahead and treat him. She used doxycycline and prednisone. I made sure Jake had something in his stomach before giving him the antibiotic because it can make you sick. At the end of the month he was not greatly improved so she put him on Interferon and kept him on the Prednisone. I believe he was taking 5 mg. at the time daily. About 3 weeks later, I felt he was going downhil so I asked her to administer Immunoregulin shots (I had an FELV+ cat previously who benefitted immensely from them). My vet agreed and remarkably, Jake showed improvement by that afternoon. It is 5-6 months later and Jake now has one Immunoregulin shot a month, he is on the every third day regimen of Interferon (although I think I will eventually try the every other week), and 2.5 mg. of Prednisone every fourth day (we are slowing weaning him off). I have his bloodwork done every 1-2 months. The last time it was done, his hematocrit was 41 and his platelets and WBC normal. Both my boys also get a small amount of raw liver every other day, 500 mg. Vit. C. daily and Jake is on about 1.5 cc of Pet Tinnic daily. Panther gets all the supplements except he doesn't like the Pet Tinnic so I give him an iron pill (comparable to the make-up of the Pet Tinnic) and a little raw thymus gland each day. Both cats are doing very well (knock on wood). You can also get Pet Tinnic from a pet supply outlet. Please do not despair; I hope you have taken James Wilson's suggestion and had your cat transfused--that would probably help a great deal 'til you can get home. We are all pulling for you and wishing for the best. Warm thoughts, Nancy -------------------------------------- From: "Mandy Crerar" To: Subject: Diarrhea Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 20:53:52 +0200 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi all Sorry to be a nuisance but I recently read on someone's post recommendations for how to treat cats or kittens with diarrhea. I have three 8 week olds that I am battling to get right. They are on the standard green enteritis medicine plus Baytril (just started yesterday as they did not respond to the first antibiotic.) I recall that whatever it was that was recommended was sprinkled on their food. This sounds easy to use in addition to the enteritis medicine for the two that are eating. One is not eating and is also an expert at spitting out all medicine, no matter what form it is given in. I have been battling with these little guys for over a week. I know this is not a FeLV issue but I also know that diarrhea is often a side effect of cancer-related medicines and so I am sure that some of you must have information on stuff that WORKS. The smallest child (Cinnamon) is skin and bone and in danger of becoming dehydrated. I am afraid that we don't have much time to experiment which is why I am looking for info based on experience. Of course all the kittens in the house who are not ill willingly drink the glucose/salt rehydration mixture from a bowl but this little one .... it's just spit, spit, spit! He starts spitting before I have even put the syringe containing the medication in his mouth!!! Help please! Thanks MANDY -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:03:32 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Diarrhea Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Mandy, Have you tried an over the counter med called Immodium? I wish I knew what they sell there. Immodium is one and Kaopectate is another. Very small amounts of course. Also, see if your vet, or even an MD friend would get you some Flagyl. It is very good for stopping diarrhea. It could be the antibiotics causing the diarrhea. You may want to stop them, even if just for 24 hrs. My vet likes me to feed them Hamberger and rice in small amts. And there is always good old chicken broth for the dehydration. My cats would kill for anything that smells like chicken. It's bad enough having a sick cat but to have a sick baby makes it all the worse. Please let us know what is happening, keeping you and your little one in my thoughts. barb -------------------------------------- From: AskforArt Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 17:28:33 EDT To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Diarrhea Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Mandy--Another item that may help the kittens is "natrum muriaticum 6x". It is a very tiny round white pellet usually labeled as natrum mur. It is a homeopathic remedy. Give one pellet every four hours for a total of three treatments. Don't let the kitties have any food or water for 10 minutes before or after the dose. Wait 24 hours. If the symptoms have not subsided, repeat the procedure. Linda P -------------------------------------- From: WORKPARK Date sent: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:15:58 EDT To: felvtalk@Mailinglist.net Subject: Rissa-Tai Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi all, Well, haven't heard from the vet today, probably won't as they are closed already, btu wanted to let everyone know what's happening with a quick update: Rissa-Tai doesn't seem nauseated anymore, she's eating at least once every hour, and purrs every time I touch her. I've actually tested this on her, and yes, I have a little lovey purr machine at my house. Things so far are going well. Pam -------------------------------------- END