Thursday March 26, 1998 Part 3 20 Messages ====================================== From: "AZ-HART" To: Subject: Re: Pau D'Arco Date sent: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:50:26 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Pau D'Arco is available from Hi-Health stores, which are national. That is where we buy the 500mg capsules of Pau D'Arco we give our cancer kitty, Angelina. It runs about $8 for a 110 capsule bottle made by Tibet Mountain Herbs. We give Angelina (a 9-pound cat) one 500mg capsule (opened up and sprinkled in her moist food) twice a day. Actually, we learned 2/27/98 from her neurologist that she may not have lymphosarcoma after all, but since he can't be sure without a biopsy, which is too much to put her through, we are continuing the Pau D'Arco anyway. She was diagnosed with lymphosarcoma in Oct97 and has been on the Pau D'Arco since then. There is also a web site that has some info on Pau D'Arco: http://www.herbsforlife.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa013098.htm Irene Hart Arizona Homeless Animals Rescue Team (AZ-HART) http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/azhart Email us at: azhart@sprynet.com -------------------------------------- From: "AZ-HART" To: Subject: A Good Vet is worth looking for Date sent: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:41:40 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Larry, Wow, what a story. We've gone through several vets in the last 6 years because we just won't put up with vets who don't seem to really understand how important each little critter's life can be. Some vets don't try hard enough to cure an ailment, you can just feel them NOT wanting to exert more effort into a difficult case. Some vets are quick to point out that an older animal with ailments "may be nearing the end, and it's something you may have to face soon", what a lot of crapola that one is. Some vets may not be on top of some of the latest treatments or medicines. Some may not be willing listen to you or get frustrated when you ask "too many questions" (we put our vets through this constantly). But the good ones are out there, and just like "people doctors", they're hard to find and you must not accept a vet (or doctor) that you don't feel confidence in. One of our previous vets used to be quick to recommend euthanasia for an FeLV+ cat. Their rationale at the time was "it may be harder to do down the road when you've grown more attached to the cat". I know now many FeLV+ cats can live for years and years and years, good quality lives, no reason to put them down. We did not put down that original FeLV+ cat, and placed him in a home where he was the only cat. Sadly, little "Geordi" did pass away from his illness a year later, but he had a wonderful year as a much loved cat, and 6 months with us before his FeLV claimed him. He deserved that much. I've personally had to deal with people doctors a lot, too, and you just move on to the next one if the one you're seeing is lacking. You owe it to yourself, you owe it to your pet or foster pet. Irene Hart Arizona Homeless Animals Rescue Team (AZ-HART) http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/azhart Email us at: azhart@sprynet.com -------------------------------------- From: "AZ-HART" To: Copies to: Subject: Re: Jim's Computer Status Date sent: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 17:06:18 -0700 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Kathy, If contributions are to be taken to get Jim his own system, we'd like to help, too. We can't do much, since the shelter takes everything (and beyond) we have, but what Jim is doing is very important, we need him, and the FeLV cats most certainly need him. Irene Hart Arizona Homeless Animals Rescue Team (AZ-HART) http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/azhart Email us at: azhart@sprynet.com -------------------------------------- To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:11:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Ernie, Naomi From: naohalloran@juno.com (Naomi J O'Halloran) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, I've been thinking about the idea of getting another positive kitty to keep Keigan company--espescially during the day when he only has the dog to play with. One thing that I was concerned about is that it may stress him out and make him get sick. I've been told that the less stress, the better with felv cats, and was wondering what anyone thought about that. The other problem is that I live with my mom and my sister, who like cats, but aren't as "crazy" about them as I am and don't think that they would want to deal with having two cats that may get sick. I'll probably wait until one comes into work that I can't resist. Most of the ones that come in positive get put down right away, the only reason the doctors are making an effort for Keigan is because I work there and I know more about it than the average client and won't just let them talk me into putting my cat to sleep. Actually, it's only the younger doctor that is helping me out. The owner is more of a pessimist, and thinks I'm probably wasting my time. So sooner or later there will be another positive kitty that they'll probably try to put to sleep, and then I'll convince my mom and sister that unless I take it, it will never even have a chance. They're softies and won't be able to turn me down. :-) I know that it may be emotionally draining to take another felv+ kitty in, but I think it's worth it to help another kitty. I just have to convince my family of that. I also have to figure out how much it would cost me. We'll see. Thanks for your idea. Naomi In loving memory of Moira 5/95-3/13/98 -------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 20:19:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Ernie's Report Card To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb & all, Ernie is having a really good day. He was up to greet me at lunch, and he has been even more chipper this afternoon and is eating well. It has been about a month since we've seen him feeling this good (my husband agrees). We are all celebrating because after last week we were downhearted, didn't think we'd have a good day with Ern again, and we are happy for just this, but of course hoping for many more. The jaw tumor feels softer and looks smaller. His groin tumor is still draining but less liquid more chunky discharge (Yuk, sorry to anyone who hasn't eaten!). But he is much more comfortable--he's not as full in that area and is able to walk more easily. I didn't realize that the vet would still take out the tumors. To tell you the truth, I don't think she's planning that far in advance. I think the treatment length is six weeks, so I guess we'll see then. Thanks for the info. Do you remember where you read that about the tumor shells being removed after treatment? I've found basically the same two articles on acemannan, and I've already given those to her. (The ones written by Virginia Lawrence) Head butts and chin scratches for you and your furry ones! Susan -------------------------------------- To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:23:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Ann and Interferon From: naohalloran@juno.com (Naomi J O'Halloran) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net What kind of shelf life does interferon have when in the water solution that I keep in the fridge? My vet wasn't sure, so he didn't want to give me too much. If it's okay he's gonna give me a whole bottle of it, instead of a small portion. Naomi -------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 20:47:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Ernie's Report Card To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, never mind about that article. I found it on the website (duh) Susan -------------------------------------- From: "Claude Horstmann" To: Subject: Interferon Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 22:38:45 -0500 Reply-to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Naomi, The pre-mixed Interferon lasts 60 days, and is refrigerated for it's duration. Shake well before using. Discard solution after 2 months. One thing we all seem to have in common is the reluctance of Vets to offer to treat FeLV kittens. Their rationale goes towards the long term effects of the dis-ease, while our desire is to attempt to bring some joy and love to a small creature that has already won our hearts, and is so innocent : or our long cherished companions who are stricken. We are luckier than most, we have a growing arsenal of medications available, and the technology to broadcast the word, and most importantly.. we have each other. .marilyn. -------------------------------------- From: "Mandy Crerar" To: Subject: Titch update Date sent: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 06:03:36 +0200 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I joined the FeLv List on behalf of a friend whose cat angel Titch was diagnosed FeLv+ about 3 weeks ago. Fortunately our vet is one of the caring ones (yes, everyone who has received the "put to sleep" story from their vet, there are caring ones out there) and she didnt even consider the PTS option. Titch is doing okay but has a VERY poor appetite. Steve has tried everything from chicken (raw and cooked), fish, tinned food (yukkk), Iams (he eats a few Kitten Iams but I think it is more to please Steve than because he really wants it), Purity baby food (double yukkk!). Steve tried the kitten weaning mixture that I use for tiny babies (a mix of Ideal Milk and water in equal quantities + an egg yolk. This is a standby that I use for weaners and for my own sick cats but it is only used for a short time and I dont know if this would be any good on a long term basis. We are trying to find out about the recommended drugs from the Mailing List but in the meantime does anyone have any suggestions as what this little guy might like to eat? We'll try anything! Luv and kittens MANDY -------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 22:12:54 -0600 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Ann M Blais Subject: Liz-Interferon Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Liz, Maybe my vet will eventually realize that I'm not going away and that he will have to learn more about felv. There must be other kitties in this area that will benefit from the knowledge he will eventually have if I persist. Did you give the Interferon to Buddy or did the vet? Okay, now another question, is that how they tell if the felv is positive or not, by the rbc count? Thanks for the information. My sincere sympathy in your loss of Buddy, I know how much you must be hurting. Ann M -------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 22:26:21 -0600 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Ann M Blais Subject: James G. Wilson Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hello James G. Wilson, or may I call you Jim, I have been hearing a lot about you lately and have seen your name quite a few times before coming to this mailing list. I am honored to be the recipient of your knowledge and help. Thank you for the information about Interferon. If my vet has not at least gotten me some more information by this week-end I will really get on his butt and push. There is no reason an intelligent man like he is should be killing felv+ cats anymore. Maybe if he learns through my persistence with Gretchen, it will surely help other cats in this area. If Gretchen can be his example he may tell other people owned by felv+ cats that indeed, they do have things to prolong their cats life and that there is someone in this area that would be willing to speak with them if they have any questions.....me. If they are lucky enough to have internet access, I can direct them to this list and all the wonderful people on it. Now, my only problem is to get the Interferon and get Gretchen to become felv-. Ann M. -------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 22:49:38 -0600 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Ann M Blais Subject: Judy Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Judy, Administering Interferon doesn't sound too difficult, thanks for explaining how it is done. When I was looking all over trying to find information on Interferon, there was so much on using Interferon for humans for just about every conceivable thing you can think of. It sounded like a miracle medicine. I couldn't find any reference to cats on it until I checked out the angelfire site yesterday after Jim answered me. Funny, when I first checked out that site last November, I was only looking for Baypanum or Immunoregulin and didn't even remember seeing Interferon there. I guess it was because I hadn't heard of it yet. Anyway, the point here is that if it is something that is used for humans as well as cats, what harm could result if a drop of it got on your skin? If it can be taken internally, what can it do externally? Have you had Maggie retested at all to see it she is felv- from taking the Interferon? I'm wondering if I should let my cats get together with Gretchen if I should also give it to them to keep up their immunity, it sure couldn't hurt them and may prevent them from getting felv. I wish you had some pictures of your place with your kitties that we could all view. Bet I'm not the only one that would like to see your wonderful place. Ann M -------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 22:58:48 -0600 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Ann M Blais Subject: Kat Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Kat, That's a fantastic idea, I'm sure there must be a cat communicator within a couple hours traveling time from here. I have heard of this being done but never thought of it. I even read an article not more that a month ago saying that we could also try to communicate mentally with our cats. Maybe I'll give it a try myself, now wouldn't that be something if I came up with an answer. Believe me, if that happens you will all hear it from me, just don't hold your breath waiting. Ha Ha Ann M. -------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 23:20:35 -0600 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Ann M Blais Subject: Larry (the Lurker) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Larry, That's a wonderful story, just wish all the vets in the world could read it. That was a lucky kitty to have found good people to help out. I'm going to try to stick with this vet and give him a bit more time using some suggestions given to me from this list. He may learn a few things to help other kitties with in the process. I can always start looking for another vet if he doesn't start getting more interested soon. Ann M. -------------------------------------- From: "Mandy Crerar" To: Subject: Vets Date sent: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 06:33:14 +0200 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi to all cat people from Mandy of Kitten Action in Durban, South Africa I joined the MailingList for a friend whose cat angel was diagnosed FeLv+ but would like to post a message for everyone - especially for those who may be new to the list. Kitten Action is a rescue organisation - we rescue unwanted kittens, care for them in foster homes, and then find permanent homes for them. I recently had an experience with a vet that I would like to share. I had two feral kittens stashed in my bathroom - a sterile environment as I have 12 other orphans here at the moment - and also because there is no place to hide and this makes taming easier. On Friday morning I took one of them to the vet as her face was very swollen and she looked really peaky. When I arrived at my vet (one of the Caring ones) I found that she had taken a (much deserved) day off and there was a locum in her place. My gut reaction was to leave and go elsewherebut I didnt want to be rude. This vet who I did not know at all diagnosed a bee or wasp sting. I told her this was impossible as there are no bees or wasps in my bathroom(!) She then diagnosed a spider bite which I said was quite possible. There is no treatment for a spider bite so I was sent home to administer lots of TLC. By Sunday this kittie was dreadfully ill and my misgivings about this diagnosis were 100% realised when I took her for a second opinion. She had advanced billary and was by that time at death's door. In fact the vet didnt charge me anythin for the treatment because he didnt expect her to make it thru the night. I stayed up all that night, and the next and the next, administering Magic Water (a mixture of Glucose, salt and water) and convincing this special kitten that they werenot ready for her at Rainbow Bridge and she must remain here with me. Well, she is still with me altho still very ill. She is very jaundiced, weak and of course dreadfully thin. When I saw the vet last night, he said it was nothing short of a miracle that she was still alive at all and altho she still has a long way to go, he sees no reason why she shouldnt make it. This vet is a Scott and is never very over exhuberent (no offence but you know what I mean). For him to make a comment like this was the equivalent of gushing!!! THE MORAL OF THIS STORY IS ..... listen to your gut feelings. You know your animal better than anyone and if you dont agree with the vet's diagnosis or if your questions are not answering sympathetically and fully, get a second opinion, or even a third opinion. I am very angry with myself for ignoring my gut feeling that the original vet's diagnosis was wrong. If I had gone straight to the second vet, the little one would have been on the correct treatment 2 and a half days earlier and would never have become so ill. Please everyone - there are good vets and not so good vets (no, this is not bashing). For the sake of your little ones who depend on your judgement totally, shop around until you find a vet who "clicks" and if in doubt, check it out! All the best to cats and their people MANDY -------------------------------------- From: "RDC" To: Subject: Re: Titch update Date sent: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 05:49:18 +0100 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hello, my Charlie once was very ill and unable to eat, he didn't even want to try his favorite goodies. I dragged him thru by putting him on the table, where I had his favorite food (chicken fillet baked in butter in the pan), I chewed it and stuffed it in his mouth, and he ate it - a lot of it. He even ate it when I smeared some CaloPet (same as NutriCal) on it. He recovered within one and a half week, was able to sit up, stand up, even jump on the table by himself, with the vet who had said it wouldn't make any sense to drag him thru like this talking of a 'miracle'.. I think it wasn't the chewed chicken itself, for he didn't touch it when I put it in his bowl, it was the whole procedure, with him lying on the table and feeling like someone most special. He liked it so much that he pretended to be unable to eat even after he was pretty well again, and stupid me fell for the little criminal and kept on stuffing the fillet in his mouth - until that fine day when I had a phone call in the middle of the procedure and talked far too long. Charlie must have got tired off waiting, he munched up one half of the fillet all by himself - and dashed off with the rest when I came back to him. The speed he had showed clearly that he had recognized the tactical mistake... Oh yes, and he never ate on the floor again - His Majesty dined on the table for the rest of his life. RDC -------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 23:36:47 -0600 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Ann M Blais Subject: Ernie Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Susan, So nice to hear Ernie is feeling good. It sounds like the treatments are working well and that is so encouraging for him. Nice to hear good news. Ann M. -------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 23:54:31 -0600 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Ann M Blais Subject: Cheri G., Kitty & Chaz Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hello and Thank You, That is a wonderful offer you made and if my vet doesn't do anything by the middle of next week I may just take you up on it as I do want to get Gretchen on the Interferon as soon as possible. She is still doing well now, probably no hurry except that my time is getting shorter before I will have to do some traveling in the motorhome and put the kitties together or let Gretchen go. Unbearable thought. Ann M. -------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 23:11:54 -0600 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Ann M Blais Subject: Marilyn Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Marilyn, That's a very good suggestion, maybe he'll start asking questions, too. I didn't realize that those were the side effects of Interferon, glad you mentioned it. You've got me wondering about PLAN B now. Ann M. -------------------------------------- From: "James G. Wilson" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 23:13:59 +0000 Subject: (Fwd) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Newtanator Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 19:49:40 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Jake & Panther Reply-To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Ann, When I brought felv into my home, my cats were not vaccinated for felv. They paid a high price for my mistake. Since I have isolated and vaccinated my cats, I have had no new cases, except for Merlin, who already had it. That's not to say that I won't have new one tomorrow, you just never know. You can drive yourself crazy worrying about it. Not every sneeze is something bad, sometimes, they just get dirt up their noses. But this is a very personal decision we all must make when we have both. It's not easy. I have choosen to let mine together and what will be, will be. Almost all of mine where starving or on death row and any time they have is going to be happy, warm, and well fed and as healthy as I can make them. I feel I can do no more than that. barb -------------------------------------- END