Sunday March 22, 1998 24 Messages ====================================== Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 10:14:32 -0500 From: Kathy Giddings To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Rusty Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net How funny! That's neat! Will be back to you later to answer your other post! Thanks! -- Kathy G and the three furries in Daytona Beach =^.^= - Rusty - =^.^= - Smokey - =^.^= - Money - see us at: http://cgi.gambitsys.com/homey/webdoc5.htm The Cat: Mother Nature's Masterpiece -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:58:17 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: raw meat, again Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I think the key word here is Healthy vs unhealthy cat. While a healthy cat can prob tolerate high amounts of contaminated food, that would probably kill us humans, an unhealthy one, may be a different story. I did have one thought. Maybe if the meat is nuked in the microwave for a minute or two, not enough to cook it but hopefully enough to kill any bugs, that might be an answer. barb -------------------------------------- From: "Helen Elizabeth Kennebeck" To: "felv mailinglist" Subject: Rissa-tai Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:16:27 -0600 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Pam, Buddy had a bone marrow aspirate to check for lymphoma about two weeks ago. He was not in very good shape at that time, but he did fine with it. I left him at the vet school at about noon and he was home with me by 5:00 pm that day. Unfortunately, the results of his test non-diagnostic----they couldn't say it was lymphoma for sure, but they couldn't rule it out. Happy to hear the good report on Rissa-tai; keep up the wonderful work. We'll keep saying our prayers. Liz and Samantha In memory of Buddy 3-13-98 -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:24:59 -0600 (CST) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Good News Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Pam, I'm so happy to hear about Rissa-Tai! Things seem to be looking up! nancy -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:29:33 -0600 (CST) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Positive & Negative Mixed Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Judy, It really surprised me that Cornell doesn't recommend the FIP vaccine. Did they say why? I've been trying to keep up on any available information regarding it. I did read something where if the cat has the vaccine and ends up getting a certain strain of it, it can make matters worse. Can anyone point me in a direction to do any reading of the possibility that it might cause the disease? Nancy -------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:33:02 -0600 Subject: re: raw meat, again To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Thanks Linda P., Barb, and Ann M.-- I have copied off all these suggestions about Ernie's diet. I want to start him on the raw food diet if that's what's best for him, but I don't want to over-tax his system while it is trying to make the switch--better to do it slowly as Kat recommended, I think. I like the idea of "nuking" the meat--I wonder if that would work. Linda, I did a search as you suggested and did more reading on the topic. You're right. It's absolutely disgusting what can be put in commercial cat food. I have always used premium cat food, but even then I don't know what's in it, and as you said cooking the food destroys the enzymes the cat needs to absorb the nutrition. So. Ann, I also appreciate your feedback--that actually sounds like my best choice right now. Or at least once I get Ernie eating again. This, of course, might all be moot. I have to say I had a depressing day yesterday trying to get some food down the boy. And then I started thinking, "usually there's a reason for not eating." The body doesn't want to expend the energy digesting food when it's trying to heal itself, or maybe the tumor in his groin is causing an obstruction. He doesn't seem miserable, but he's not comfortable either. That groin tumor keeps draining and his back legs are always wet. He ate a little baby food this morning, and used his litter box and scratching post and then went back to his futon/bed. His eyes are still bright and he walks w/ his tail straight up and rubs against my husband's legs (he really loves Roger--a daddy's boy). Anyway, we're both hanging in there. Vets on Tuesday. -------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:44:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Ernie, Again To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Dana, I forgot to thank you, too. I was thinking the same thing--that the chicken should be organic and fresh. I didn't know about formaldehyde. God help me, there's so much junk in the stuff we eat. It makes me want to just grow my own food. I didn't realize chicken was as vulnerable to salmonella as pork. The vet in Fairfield says (and I believe him) he has thousands of animals on the raw food diet. He said that the acemannan will help the tumors, but to strengthen the immune system I really need to put all my cats on a raw food diet. The body is so complex, as Barb and others noted, it's just overwhelming. Anyway, thanks for telling me about your experience. I will keep this in mind. Susan -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:13:08 -0600 (CST) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Ernie Update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Susan, Have you tried feeding lamb or veal baby food (without onions) to Ernie . . . or tuna fish? Neither would be good for a constant diet, but temporarily it may get him through his lack of appetite . . . or sardines. When my boys are not eating, I will feed them ANYTHING--even smoked turkey from the deli--just to get them through until they're eating normally. hope the tumors continue to shrink. Thinking of you and Ernie. Nancy -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:17:01 -0600 (CST) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Ernie Update Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Susan, Another thing . . . I use a antihistamine called Cyprohepatadine to stimulate the appetite. You only have to use 1/4 or 1/2 of a 4 mg. pill. I use it only 1-2 days and really stimulates the boys appetites. It'l like brings them back to eating normally. nancy -------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:32:20 -0600 Subject: Re: Ernie Update, Nancy To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi, Nancy, Thanks for the encouraging thoughts. I haven't tried veal or lamb baby food. I did buy some fancy feast fish flavor just to get him going but then I read about all the junk in it and went back to chicken baby food. I've never tried that antihistamine. I will give it a shot. Thanks a bunch. Susan -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:44:53 -0800 From: Dana Crow Organization: Magical Moments Preschool To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: organic food & chemicals Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net just one more note re the raw food. I have a son who is allergic to sulpha drugs & when he was allergy tested we were told that he could only eat organic meat. When I went to the meat counter to look for organic the sign above it read: these organic meats are guaranteed to contain none of the following: sulpha etc. I have often wondered how many humans who are allergic to sulpha drugs & others still eat this meat & wonder why they never feel well. No I am not vegetarian but we don't eat alot of meat either. Stock yards are famous for mega dosing the animals prior to slaughter to keep them as healthy as possible in minimal living conditions. Dana That's it. I'll say no more re this topic!! -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:52:57 -0800 From: Dana Crow Organization: Magical Moments Preschool To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Ernie Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi susan, Sounds like Ernie is quite the trooper. I always think it is a positive thing that they "soft" or rub against us humans. That usually tells me that they are still feeling well. Sometimes they head butt too! You are probably right that his body does not feel like eating. I would try & make sure to offer it to him often & make sure that what you offer is nutritious. His body is busy fighting off infection & disease now & still does require some nutrition. Glad you're all doing well! Dana -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:10:17 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: raw meat, again Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I have heard that the Amish, who sell chicken in the stores, don't give their chickens all the crap that say, Tyson, does. It costs more, but you can see a difference in the two. I think they barnyard raise theirs and don't stuff them with anitbiotics and such since they don't believe in most of that stuff. barb -------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:32:32 -0600 Subject: Re: raw meat, again To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, Yes, I think you're right. We have an Amish community nearby, too. Thanks for the idea. Susan -------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:44:32 -0600 Subject: re: Ernie, Dana To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Yes, I offered him some food alittle while ago and he ate some--maybe a teaspoon, but better than nothing. He also talked to us a little bit--complaining again but his voice is pretty strong, too. That is a good idea--just coaxing him and talking to him. Someone said it is a good idea to just keep talking to them to get them to eat. That works sometimes for Ern, particularly if my husband and I both do it! Now Ern's got his own cheerleading squad! I love the head butts. My little Joey head butts me on my head sometimes. They are so sweet. Thanks, Susan -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:44:40 -0600 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Ann M Blais Subject: Re: Ernie Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Susan, Thank you for the new thought about the more yearly injections the cat receives the more the immunity could be built up. If I do decide to let Gretchen get together with the other cats, it just might be a good idea to wait until a couple of weeks after their next FeLV injection next month, just in case. That would also give me another month in which to decide whether or not to do this. SCARY!!! I look at Qetta and Honey and wonder if I am giving them a death sentence should I do this. Good luck with Ernie Tuesday. Does it cause him much misery to have the tumors injected? I was just wondering if it is good that the tumor drains? I'm not familiar with tumors and hopefully never will be. Poor baby is going through a lot. Gretchen is completely back to her normal self again. She picked up a new trick this week. I try to sleep in the room with her at least once a week if not more and the other morning I felt a very soft touch on my closed eyelid and as my head moved back there was also the lightest touch on my lips. I think she may have been trying to tell me to open my eyes and talk to her? How many kitties do you now have and is Ernie the only Felv+ one? Ann M -------------------------------------- From: "James G. Wilson" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:43:37 +0000 Subject: (Fwd) Re: Raw chicken for cats? Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:03:07 -0500 From: "Carlene C. Myers" Organization: Vet Care, Etc., P.C. To: phaedrus@ctnet.net Subject: Re: Raw chicken for cats? Cats are relatively resistant to Salmonella. However, in light of an immunocmpromised cat, it may be advisable to feed beef. You can feed cooked chicken and add back digestive enzymes. My preference is Infinity2 product "Digest A Meal". You would also need to feed some organ meat, liver or kidney, with this raw food. Preparing your own meals can be very healthful for your cat, but you do need to balance the nutrition and not feed only single items. M. W. Myers, D.V.M. James G. Wilson wrote: > Hello Dr. Myers, > > We've been having quite a bit of discussion about giving raw chicken to > FeLV+ cats. A member's vet told her that she should give raw chicken to her > cat, but a number of people on the list are concerned about salmonella and > other "bad things" in raw chicken. Do you have any ideas on this? Are cats > (even FeLV+ ones) able to handle this better than humans? Thanks for any input > you can provide on this subject. > > In loving memory of Vyvyan: March 20, 1988 - August 15, 1997 > > James G. Wilson > phaedrus@ctnet.net, phaedrus69@hotmail.com, felv@angelfire.com > http://www.angelfire.com/il/felv/ > http://www.litchfieldil.com/members/phaedrus/ > http://www.fortunecity.com//skyscraper/sterling/20/niu.html -------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:15:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Ernie, Ann To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi, Ann, Boy, you have a difficult decision. Gretchen sounds like a little sugarpie. My alpha cat, Pete, wakes me up sort of that way. He'll just barely have his claws out so it kind of tickles. How old are Honey and Qetta? Is this their second year of shots? Maybe you could ask Dr. Myers if it's true about immunity building up. It makes sense. Because I work all day, I have to leave Ernie at the vet's for his acemannan shots. He gets an injection in the stomach, and then he is getting injections in the tumors. The doc wasn't able to put much acemannan in the tumor on his jaw because it did hurt him. Poor little guy. I don't know what she'll do this Tuesday--it depends on what she thinks of the tumor in his groin. I don't know if it's good that it's draining like it is but I'm thinking it might be better than having all that fluid accumulating in his groin. Also the fluid doesn't smell bad, so I think that might be a sign it's not infected. I have nine cats: Pete, Chloe, Mickey, Emily, Bonnie, Spike, Ernie, Joe, and Oscar. I've been richly blessed. Ernie is the only FeLV positive kitty--he has his own room, my husband's study, so the other cats really haven't been exposed. ( He has escaped a few times, but that's it.) I know it's a scary decision, and my heart goes out to you. With Ernie, I had a place to keep him separate. If I didn't have that space, I don't know what I would've done. I wonder if giving a supplement like Ambrotose (sp?) to boost the immune system in Qetta and Honey would help. I think Barb gives her kitties this. Thanks for the encouragement. Susan -------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:19:36 -0600 Subject: (Fwd) Re: Raw chicken for cats? To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net James, Thank you for asking Dr. Myers about this. I'll ask my vet about the amount of Acemannan she puts in each tumor this Tuesday. Susan -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:59:29 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Ernie, Ann Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Susan, I once asked my vet why they didn't use a local anestetic to numb an area before doing something rather than knocking them out. He said they don't work on dogs and cats. I'm a little skeptical of that reason. I think it may be the more logical reason that most animals won't hold still. Anyway, it's a thought for the Acemannan shots in the tumors. Maybe some lidocaine or novacaine to numb the area might make it a little easier on him. Or maybe they really don't work on animals, but I can't imagine why they wouldn't. As to the draining tumor...as problematic and messy as it may be, it is much better to have it draining than not. If it didn't, the area would be huge and very painful for him. Just keep it clean as you can and wipe several times a day if you can with one half water and one half hydrogen peroxide. This will help cut down on the infection possiblities. barb -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:13:12 +0000 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: BILL BEAMISH Subject: Re: organic food & chemicals Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Dana, I can't believe this! I am allergic to sulfa drugs but was never told just to eat organic meat. Well, I am now a vegetarian because every time I'd eat meat, I'd feel awful! Now I know why. Thank you! Judy -------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:15:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Ernie, Barb To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net That's a relief (about the tumor draining). I hadn't been cleaning Ernie because he has been grooming himself so regularly ( a good sign I think). But I will start. We have been changing his bedding. You have been such a big help. Thanks so much, Susan -------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:18:06 -0600 Subject: Re: Ernie, barb p.s. To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I forgot to mention the suggestion about anesthetic. That's a wonderful idea. Anything to save the boy some pain. -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 23:45:11 -0600 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Ann M Blais Subject: Thanks Barb Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Barb, Thanks for all the information you've sent on, I'm learning so much. I'm waiting for the day when you are able to send us all a new miracle cure for FeLV, now wouldn't that be the greatest! You're so right about the cats running away because they think we're going to give them a pill or something all the time. I was beginning to think they were afraid of my hands. Do you feed your cats all the same foods whether they are positive or negative? I started out feeding my kitties IAMS, then for some reason which I cannot remember now I switched to Science Diet for almost 3 months. Qetta started acting different and losing some weight (which was good because he needed to), not really eating as usual, then he started to look almost haggard and not so playful anymore, so I went back to IAMS and he returned to normal. Honey seems to eat anything I put down (she will not touch anything we eat, though), but she is so strange anyway that she eats the clay litter, licks the bar of soap and any glue, and eats any elactics she can get hold of. That elastic bit causes a lot of worry, I go frantic when anyone brings one in the house like on the mail, Italian sandwiches, etc. When Gretchen came to us and tested positive, she started on the raw food diet, which is extra work, but seems to be worth it. Qetta would love to eat Gretchen's food, but not Honey, no way will she touch it. You mentioned that bit about some component in the clay in cat litter that helps clean out the body and I wonder if that is what Honey is trying to do even though she is negative, maybe I should start giving her something for her system, her bm's are usually small and a bit on the hard side. Gretchen never had the Immunoragulin given through IV, just at the back of the neck under the skin. Would you start the series over again giving it to her through IV for 6 weeks and then SQ afterwards to try to get a negative? I feel that my vet is not very well informed on FeLV and the procedures. He really wanted me to kill her when she tested positive at first. We seem to disagree most of the time but he goes along with me so far. Probably he thinks I am crazy, the office girl there said when the test came back positive a couple of weeks ago that maybe it was time I put her down now because she was costing me so much. I sure bit my tongue hard before replying to that. I just smiled and said she was worth every penny. I'm wondering now if the vet had given the Immunoregulin by IV if Gretchen may possibly be a negative now. Is it possible for an average person to be able to learn how to give IV? I think I could do the SQ, but the IV one would be a different matter. Also, I wonder if the vet would give me the serum. This is a very small town area with one vet, so it's not like I have much choice. I suppose I could travel to the nearest large town a bit over an hour away, but that is not so large, either. You mentioned that you are giving Ambrotose. Is that to all your kitties or just the positive ones. Is there a special web page for information on this? I never thought about the yearly boosters just being a vets basic income, but that is just about the way it is. On the other hand, possibly the more yearly boosters for FeLV given to a cat the more immunity he may have. I remember my vet saying each batch of serum can be different, some maybe not so effective as another with no way of telling. If that is the case, wouldn't the more shots given give a better variable? I'm just speculating here, but I think Susan's vet mentioned to her about the more yearly boosters for Felv, the better the cat could fight off Felv. Your kitties are sure lucky to have you for a Mommy, you are not only loving, but knowledgeable, too. Do you have anyone come in to help you with the kitties? I can't imagine the amount of litter boxes you must take care of. My brother has 6 kitties and uses 3 boxes, so with 15? WOW!!! But, when it comes time for kitty loving, you sure won't ever lack it. Ann M -------------------------------------- END