Saturday March 21, 1998 Part 3 21 Messages ====================================== From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 15:13:34 -0600 Subject: Re: Good News To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Pam, I am so glad to hear about Rissa-Tai. Susan -------------------------------------- From: "Cheri Gardiner" To: Subject: Re: Ernie, Again Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 15:35:05 -0600 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Susan, I have a friend who had a bit larger cat, a cougar, who died from eating raw chicken that had been contaminated. I wouldn't feed raw chicken. My kittens like it baked. They also get liver lightly fried and beef chunks baked. Just my opinion. Cheri G., KItty & Chaz In memory of my little boy Mickey -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:32:19 +0000 From: LawBet Organization: Home for Wayward Felines To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Positive & Negative Mixed Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Judy, My MUCH YOUNGER sister, Barb, is correct. Our Vet absolutely refuses to give the vaccine unless the owner demands it and even then she is still reluctant to give it and continues advising against it for the reasons Barb stated in her message. In a previous msg I stated we have had 15 cats, (13 still living) and NONE have ever received the vaccine and NONE have ever contracted the disease. The two we've lost so far have been lost to old age, fortunately. I, too, do not regret having not given this vaccine to our kitties. Larry (The Lurker) -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:34:19 +0000 From: LawBet Organization: Home for Wayward Felines To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Ernie, Again Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Susan, For what it's worth, my wife will do great bodily harm to anyone who even attempts to feed her kitties chicken! Larry (The Lurker) -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 17:57:35 -0500 (EST) From: Kat To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Ernie, Again Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Susan, If your cat is in good health, then a raw food diet is probably ok - a cat's digestive system is capable of fighting off alot more that our's are. However, I would do this switch over very gradually for any cat, especially if the cat's system is already weak. Cat's can react to a sudden/big change in diet with vomiting and diarrhea. I would start with a lightly cooked meat, purreed and mixed in with the regular cat food, gradually upping the percentage of meat, until you can feed cooked meat chunks. If all goes well, then I would change over (again gradually) mixing raw in with the cooked meat. This should take several months - it is NOT a weekend project. Also, there are a couple of books on the subject to help you along - New Natural Cat by Anitra Frazier and DR.PITCAIRNS COMPLETE GUIDE TO NATURAL HEALTH FOR DOG'S & CATS Both of which have sections on feeding raw foods. Kat (New Jersey) -------------------------------------- From: katseven@pcsia.com Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 17:02:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Ernie, Again To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Thanks for input Barb, Cheri, Larry, and Kat. Now I think I will just cook the meat; at least I will know more about what's going in it. I didn't feel like Ern's system could handle it. Kat, I will see how Ernie does and get those guides before I try anything. Thanks again. Susan -------------------------------------- From: AskforArt Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 19:34:09 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: raw food and Pau D'Arco Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net For Cheri---If you are near a health food store look for an extract that is alcohol-free and organic or wild-crafted. The alcohol isn't my favorite, but some plants can only be prepared that way. Whatever the dose is for humans (calculate at 150 pounds) you'll have to reduce that dosage to your cat's weight. If the bottle said 7 drops, then one drop would be enough for about 21.5 pounds. Measure out 1 teaspoon of purified or distilled water, put 1 drop of the pau d'arco extract in the water, and then give your cat 1/2 teaspoon of the mixture. This isn't rocket science, and you just need to be close, not exact. Be sure to use good quality water, as some of the contaminents (flouride, chlorine) can render the herbs useless. For Susan--raw meat is the BEST THING you can give your cat. If you are worried about contaminants in your cat's food, just read the label on the commercial cat foods available in the stores. Many of the preservatives are know carcinogens, much of the "meat" in the products IS NOT food grade for humans (including tumors from cancers of sick animals, waste that falls to the floor during processing). Go to Alternative Veterinery Medicine on your search engine and read about nutrition for your pet...your vet told you how to help your cat, and she was telling you the right thing to do. A cat's intestine is proportionally about 1/10 the length of our's and is designed to eat raw food. (When was the last time you saw a cat in the checkout line at a grocery store?) By cooking the food for your cat you destroy all the digestive enzymes in the food that help him break down the food and absorb the nutrients. That's why you see other people on the list adding Prozyme to their cats' food. 98% of the people in America are suffering from some sort of nutritional deficiency, and it's because we eat too much processed food. And we feed even worse crap to our pets. I wish I knew who said it, but I read some where "humans are the only animals smart enough to cook their food and stupid enough to eat it". Another food you can feed for ailing cats is raw goats milk with a few drops of honey added to it--it's high in nutrition and easy to administer. Sorry if I sound like I'm spouting, but as far as I'm concerned high quality food is the first line of defense, and I've seen first- hand what changing to a rraw food diet will do for a cat's health. Linda P in Sacramento -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 19:58:08 +0000 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: BILL BEAMISH Subject: Rusty Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hey, Kathy! Your Rusty looks just like my Rusty! They could be brothers. Judy -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:02:35 +0000 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: BILL BEAMISH Subject: Re: Judy Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Dear Liz, You are welcome to come and visit us and our kitties anytime! Coincidently, we were called Cathaven at one time! Judy -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:11:19 +0000 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: BILL BEAMISH Subject: Re: Welcome Judy!! Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Cheri, So many vets advise owners to euthanize Felv positive cats, I'm not surprised they say they don't have any. Since we've taken in positive cats for over 10 years now, we are kind of well known in this area. People find out about us by word of mouth and nearly all the vets in this area know us and what we do and they send people to us, too. Then, of course, we do rescue work and some of the cats we take in just turn out to be positive and we keep them. You are so right about cats loving you to get down to their level! Fortunately, my daughter and her friends accomodate them and I save my knees! Judy -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:20:58 +0000 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: BILL BEAMISH Subject: Rissa-Tai Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Pam, I'm very glad to hear Rissa-Tai is doing so well. It really would be way less stressful for her if you could give her Immunoregulin shots at home. You'll get used to the needle. When my cat, Roy, was diagnosed with diabetes, I thought I'd never be able to give him his Insulin shots. But I gave those shots twice a day for 2 years until his diabetes mysteriously disappeared. The vet thought the diabetes was brought on by stress and when he became more comfortable living here, it went away. He's fine now. Anyway, good luck with Rissa-Tai! -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:44:37 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Rissa-Tai Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Bill, Something in your letter about diabetes mysteriously disappearing triggered something in my feeble brain. Steriods can cause diabetes also. Many people who are "chronic lungers" have to take steriods and if often causes them to become diabetics. Usually, once the body kicks back is on its own after the steriods have been stopped, it corrects itself, but not always. Something to be aware of. barb -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:47:56 +0000 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: BILL BEAMISH Subject: Re: Positive & Negative Mixed Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Barb, FIP is a real mystery disease to me. I have a Felv/Fiv negative cat here now, who, when he was a kitten 6 years ago, was tested by my vet for FIP. My vet said he was positive and I should euthanize him so I wouldn't spread it all through my house. I wouldn't do it since I had just read about the misleading results of the test and because the kitten looked and acted just fine. Bruce still looks and acts just fine! AND no other cat in the house got FIP. When I brought this up to my vet a few years after he had recommended Bruce be euthanized, he then told me that when a cat is infected with FIP, the symptoms usually come out before the cat is 2 or after he is 8. Does anyone know anything about this? I'm absolutely not vet bashing here but sometimes I wish the vets would be more honest with me. I mean, how could my personal vet tell me to test every new cat for FIP and then give the vaccine when Cornell advised against testing AND the vaccine? It's confusing enough without having disagreements between professionals. Who is right? Judy -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:00:58 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Positive & Negative Mixed Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Judy, I can only pass on what my vet has told me. There is NO acurate test for FIP. The only way to know for sure is in a necropsy. With the dry kind anyway. The wet kind is sort of obvious, but even then, you must rule out many different reasons for a big belly. My sons Brisco had a HUGE tummy, but he also had a HUGE hernia. There are worms that make a tummy big. I don't know your vet but it could be he just made a simple mistake and doesn't want to admit it. I have never heard the age thing, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Anyone else heard of this. Jim? you and steve do the most research. Sounds strange to me. barb -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:57:32 +0000 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: BILL BEAMISH Subject: Re: Positive & Negative Mixed Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net At one time my vet told me FIP is quite a rare disease for a cat to get. Maybe, as Barb says, the Felv positive cat's immune system makes it more likely to get FIP but I haven't even found this to be true. Bruce, my supposedly FIP positive cat, has lived with my Felv positive cats for 6 years now with no spread of the disease, either way. I am keeping Bruce because I won't adopt a cat to another person if I know the cat has even the slightest chance of having a disease. The vet claims Bruce may start showing symptoms in a couple of years when he's 8. Who knows? I guess I have to take a wait and see attitude. Judy -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:04:53 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Positive & Negative Mixed Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Judy, Just a quick add on. You felv cat's prob haven't gotten it because he prob doesn't have it. barb -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:06:49 +0000 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: BILL BEAMISH Subject: Re: Rissa-Tai Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, My feeble brain just kicked in, too! You are right! I have a friend who has emphysema (sp?) and she keeps insisting to me her diabetes is caused by her medications and I know she's on steroids. You're an R.N. aren't you, Barb? Boy, your input is much needed and appreciated here, I'd think! Thank you. Judy -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:37:54 +0000 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: BILL BEAMISH Subject: Re: Positive & Negative Mixed Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net That's exactly what I think, Barb! -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 22:02:30 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Rissa-Tai Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Judy, Your friend is probably right, but due to the disease condition, it is unlikely they will ever be able to stop the steriods. I have patient like that and everytime they would try and wean him off them, he would crash. So he is on them for good now. He takes 20mg a day. That is for a 160lb human. It seems to me that 7mg for an 8-10 lb cat is quite a bit, but that seems to be the common dose. Yes, I'm an RN, now in home care with the health dept in the county, but my specialty was cardiac and trauma so if you are in a car accident and have a heart attack, I will come in handy! barb -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 23:17:36 -0600 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net From: Ann M Blais Subject: Re: Ernie Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Susan, When I first got Gretchen someone recommended Anitra Frazier's book for information on the raw food diet. I started Gretchen on it, she was in such a sad state of health that I was willing to try anything. Until about a month and a half ago, she ate raw organic stew beef, partially cooked chicken, grains and vegetables. She still eats everything but since the vet scared me by saying that her immune system could not fight off toxoplasmosis which is gotten from raw meat, I have started to lightly cook the meat. She eats it just as well, there doesn't seem to be any difference so far. When I prepare her meals my other two kitties are trying to swipe some off her dish before I get it to her. They are on IAMS. Into the food for Gretchen I put a teaspoon of the Vita-Mineral mix (recipe gotten from Fraziers book). She gets a daily vita-mineral pill. Also, once weekly she gets a capsule of Vit. E 400 IU and a combo capsule of 10,000 IU Vit A-400IU Vit D squirted into her food. All this is gotten from the local health food store (not the meat). Although she still tested positive after the series of Immunoregulin injections, the vet said he wouldn't know she had felv by examining her, she appears very healthy. I am starting to give her a little IAMs with the intention of eventually converting her over to this diet as it would be so much easier. If I see any change in her from the change, she will go back to the meat, grain, veggy diet. Hope this helps for a different viewpoint. Ann M -------------------------------------- Date sent: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 22:58:14 -0800 From: Dana Crow Organization: Magical Moments Preschool To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Ernie, Again Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net it was my Meeko who got salmonella from a neighbours slaughter pit. Both the vet & I believe that meeko ate a rat who had eaten poisoned pork. He was very close to death for 3 days & $700.00. I understand that chicken is equally as vulnerable to salmonella as pork so for this I would be extremely cautious. Also you never what drugs & medications are used prior to & during processing. I think that they use formaldehyde or similar to slightly preserve it. If I were going to feed raw chicken I would want to be sure it was organic & FRESH. Also a while back someone mentioned parasites carried in unhealthy cats. Was it coccidea (sp?) by chance? Meeko had high ###'s of this due to being so ill. Dana -------------------------------------- END