Thursday February 26, 1998 Part 1 14 Messages ====================================== From: DLMLLM@aol.com Date sent: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:30:16 EST To: Felvtalk@mailinglist.net Subject: Web sites Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi everyone. I've been on this so much, have neglected the husband. So going to call it quits for the night. Some one needs to tell me why I can't get some of these sites. Like meowmama, anglefire (is it a date site?), and Benny at geocities. Be nice to be better at this. Haven't heard from you Barb. Not change in the cats with the Amratose. Maybe they need to take it longer. Only been a day. Forgot. Been a hell of a last three weeks. Everyone hug your babies close tonight. My two males are very lovie now. Linda -------------------------------------- From: AskforArt@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 02:13:51 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: computer donations Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net UC Davis Veterinary Center in Davis CA may be agood place to approach about that. Let me know what info you want them to have, and I'll take care of it. Linda P in Sacramento -------------------------------------- From: "Steve Lackow" To: Subject: Re: Interferon Strength Date sent: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:05:59 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Barb, I am not a nurse. I am a lay person, I have to trust the doctor or the pharmacy or find another one. Vets are both doctor and pharmacy. My vet says (through her assistant) that what I got was 30 units per cc in LRS for oral use. Plus, with the minute amounts we are talking about, it is certainly the flavor that Chloe objects to, yes? She's certainly fine today, but has never objected to any kind of medicine before, so mixed messages... I am going to change vets, this was a very unpleasant experience, just getting the prescription refilled. They insisted on seeing Chloe for "exams and tests". But I was hoping to save Chloe the stress of a vet visit until at least a year out, or until it became necessary. My understanding is that stress -- the carrier and the car, really, for Chloe -- can make an FeLV cat very sick, even an asymptomatic one. Paradoxical. But very well may be necessary. -- Steve -------------------------------------- From: "Carol Gentry" To: Subject: Problems Date sent: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:45:12 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net To all out there. I'm having a major problem with my server so I have been unable to send mail. Can receive it but it won't send. If you all get this I'm still here, I think. Carol from Vancouver -------------------------------------- From: DLMLLM@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:10:48 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: hair analysis Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net It was me Barb. I thought it would help Russian. Linda -------------------------------------- From: "James G. Wilson" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:42:12 +0000 Subject: (Fwd) Re: question abotu the veterinary pet insurance? ( Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:54:05 -0500 From: Tookie Myers Reply-to: ccmyers1@erols.com To: phaedrus@ctnet.net Subject: Re: (Fwd) question abotu the veterinary pet insurance? (www.petins No insurance company will cover prexisting conditions. I have dealt with this company many times and they are very good. M. W. Myers, D.V.M. -------------------------------------- From: "James G. Wilson" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:42:13 +0000 Subject: (Fwd) Re: Blood spot in feces Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 01:03:53 -0500 From: Tookie Myers Reply-to: ccmyers1@erols.com To: phaedrus@ctnet.net Subject: Re: Blood spot in feces I don't think this is too serious. However, since these cats have immune problems, this could signal an oncoming bout of giardia. I would try to monitor this closely. I have also seen tapeworms cause this. M. W. Myers, D.V.M. -------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:05:43 -0500 From: Brad To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Wuzzy Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I am quite surprise to find no one on the list today. I was unable to access my e mail yesterday...I thought it was the high winds around here...I got through today and no one is on. I hope my e mail didn't get lost or better yet; hope this means all is well in the feline world. Anyway, I got Wuzzy's results back from the IFA. They were +. My vet agreed with Dr. Myers in that they don't believe the vaccination contaminated the results. I have my doubts. Jim, you mention that you remember reading somewhere that it could. You couldn't remember off hand at the time, but I wonder if you could locate the info. Wuzzy is not showing any signs of the FeLV. I am going to have him re-tested in a month. If those come back + then I will start the Acemannan Treatments on him. I am thinking about starting his supplements again for the time being. Vit C, B-12, E (wkly), Pau D'arco, Asragalus Root, and even the Echincea. Any thoughts on this? I was also wondering about the Ambrotose(?). Should Wuzzy be taking this? I am cautiously freaked out right now. A month ago he was -. I have a gut feeling that the test was off. On the other hand, I am hoping that he didn't contract the FIP also. My mind is a whirl. Could he be + and never get the disease? My husband is also bummed. He so badly wanted more kittens and a puppy. Barb, you said that you have not had any problem with new - kittens being with the + ones, as long as they were separated during the vaccination process. Is this 'thing' transmittable to dogs? Forgive my long winded ramblings. I didn't intend to get this carried away. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Much Love, Kelly & Wuzzy -------------------------------------- From: "James G. Wilson" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:56:05 +0000 Subject: (Fwd) Re: Regular shelters vs No-kill shelters Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi everyone, As I said before, please send these messages to Irene privately. This list is for discussions of FeLV treatments and support. I just don't want tempors to flair and have flame wars over this issue on the list. Thanks. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Tammy Kennedy" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:54:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Regular shelters vs No-kill shelters Anyone that doesn't want to here about euthanizasia, please delete without reading... (climbing on soap box).. If I offend anyone, I'm terribly sorry. I'm just going to state how I feel. I do lots of volunteer work for my local humane society. Currently, I serve as Vice-President. We hold a contract with the county to run the animal shelter. We are bound by law to accept any and all animals brought in to us (ie - we get chickens, cows, snakes, fish, birds, etc.). We received over 9,000 animals in 1997. The majority of those animals were euthanized for whatever reason (sick, old, unadoptable, etc.); probably 75% of them. The most common reason for euthanizasia was a lack of space. I've assisted with the euthanasia of 50 healthy cats/kittens in one day. (That was one of the hardest day of my life! I'm crying even now while I'm typing this.) Disease (URIs, parvo, etc.) is very common in our shelter and seems to be an endless battle. End result: Our adoption rate is about 25%, euthanasia rate is about 75%. There is also a local no-kill cat shelter. I have spoken with their director. He told me that he only accepts healthy cats, the cats must be current on their shots, cats must be young enough to be adoptable, etc. He also has a HUGE waiting list. All cats in their program are given excellent medical care while they are there. And all those cats go to wonderful homes! Their adoption rate is 100%. I volunteer at the "kill" shelter because those animals are in terrible conditions, and they face death daily. I am glad that there are no-kill shelters. At least those animals aren't at our shelter! I couldn't volunteer at a no-kill shelter, because I feel I'm needed too much at the kill shelter. I usually refuse to take in animals, when people call me and tell me that they have to get rid of their pet. I prefer to bring home animals from the shelter. I have only done it twice 1) the man was dying and wanted his cats placed and 2) the lady said that she would dump them in the woods if I didn't take them because she thought "kill" shelters were wrong and they would do better in the woods. I don't believe that either is wasting it's time. Both are working toward the same goal, but going about it different ways. A lot of people just can't handle volunteering at kill shelters. Someone told me that they couldn't go in and look at the cats, and know that it might be dead the next day. I had a hard time with that at first, but now I can handle it. I didn't say it was easy. After a while, you kinda learn to "look though" the animal. You just focus on the here and now. This cat is here now, it needs this now, I'm going to make sure that it has everything that it needs now. Tomorrow, we'll deal with tomorrow. If that no-kill shelter wasn't there taking in those animals, they'd probably have ended up at the kill shelter. Is one of the shelters wrong? Yes, the kill shelter is wrong. It's evil to kill animals, but I would rather see them die a humane death than to starve to death or be beaten to death. At the shelter, I've fought to save cats that I got attached to. I've lied to save cats I've gotten attached to. Everyone does. Sometimes employees will hide animals to protect them from being euthanized. If I'm there and it's time to select for euthanasia, I get very angry and start yelling at anyone that's around me, but in the end, I help with the selection. I also treat people that come to the shelter to turn in their animals as if the person is scum. I've told people to go into the kennel and select which dogs they want me to have euthanized to make room for their animal. One lady told me she wanted to keep her cat's kitten, but give up the cat because it was an adult. I asked her if she realized that the kitten would be a cat soon. I also asked her if she was going to bring me the kitten next year when it was a cat. To me, the people that are doing wrong is the irresponsible pet owners that bring in their animals and dump them on us. My opinion is that the public needs to focus on spay/neuter programs. If all animals were altered, then there would EVENTUALLY be no need for euthanasia. I am a donating member of a no-kill group that has a goal that in 2002 there will be no more euthanasia. Their strategy is spaying and neutering. I pray for that day. (climbing off soap box) Just my $.02.. -- TK -------------------------------------- From: "James G. Wilson" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:07:05 +0000 Subject: (Fwd) I just saw his picture Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Carol Gentry" To: Subject: I just saw his picture Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:00:31 -0800 Michele, I just saw Bennys picture and all the rest. It made me cry, again. I have a Siamese named CC except he's much bigger and totally crosseyed. He gets picked on by the others. I got him when his owner, if you want to call her that was moving. She really didn't care about him and after he had gotten her through a really rough time in her life. Unfortuately she had him declawed so he has no defense against my others but they get wet a lot from the squirt bottle. He is very, very loving and he would spend the day in your lap if you would let him. It's to bad you don't live closer because I would give him to you. He couldn't take Bennys place but it might help. No I'm not looking to get rid of him but it would be nice if he could go through a day without being picked on. Anyway, great picture. Carol from Vancouver -------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:21:12 -0500 From: Brian and Jennifer Kleeman To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Wuzzy Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Kelly, I spend a lot of time reading (so much to learn!) and little time posting to this list, but I felt compelled to respond to your message concerning getting additional kittens to be with your (probably) positive one. >From your previous posts you have proven yourself to be an extremely caring and loving cat-mom. I have no doubt in your ability to make the decision that is right for you and your cats-- WHATEVER that ultimate decision may be. But please give me an opportunity to offer my experience. I happen to feel very strongly about this issue and would recommend that if Wuzzy does come back positive in a month, PLEASE PLEASE do NOT expose any FeLV negative cats to Wuzzy! While the vaccine is useful, it is estimated to be only 60 - 80% effective. That is the statistic provided by the vaccine manufacturers, those who have the most incentive to have high effecacy rates. It is not anywhere close to a 100% guarantee that the cat will be protected. To make a very long story short, I had a kitten named Smudge who was vaccinated for FeLV BEFORE being exposed to my FeLV positive cat (I didn't know she was positive at the time; she had always tested negative; she got it from another kitten we adopted). Smudge contracted the FeLV and died. Had I been more patient about adding a new kitten to my home after losing my first FeLV positive one (I waited two months), that kitten may have been adopted by another loving home and would probably be happy and playing today. It is very true that many cats (approximately one-third) are exposed to FeLV and never contract the disease, even without the vaccine. Based on annecdotal experience, the statistics may be even better. But I cannot rationalize taking this risk (whether 50% of 5%) with a kitten that otherwise could be adopted by a FeLV-free home. Why expose a kitten to additional dangers? BTW, dogs cannot get FeLV: please feel free to get a new puppy! Although if Wuzzy is positive, avoiding stress is crucial & any changes in his environment could prove stressful. Even if Wuzzy does come back negative in a month, you may still want to not get a new kitten. Wuzzy may still be a carrier of the disease and test negative; the result is that he lives a long and healthy life but can give the disease to other cats. Also- on a happier note :) There is an estimated one third of cats that are exposed to FeLV that test positive, but never have symptoms of the disease. They are carriers, but do not seem to be effected by the disease themselves. Wuzzy could very well be in this one-third. Even of those that become symptomatic, many live for many, many happy years symptom free. I know you both feel very lonely right now, having lost little ones so recently. The easiest way to fill the void for some is to get a new kitten. But knowing the pain you both have just gone through in losing loved ones to FeLV, please put an end to this line of the disease. Please, do not expose a FeLV negative cat to Wuzzy. I'm sorry if I come across as harsh, I do not mean to. I just hate to see this horrible disease be given the opportunity to replicate when there is a clear way to avoid it. My thoughts and prayers are with you. I am so sorry for your recent losses. I know Wuzzy is in the absolute best hands he could be in. Please keep up posted on his progress. I wish you all the best of luck, Jennifer Kleeman -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:20:06 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Wuzzy Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Kelly, You must have lost the mail in cyberspace somewhere. There was mail. I was off for a day also and had a ton of them to get thru. Labs have been known to make mistakes. I mean it does happen, but usually the IFA is fairly definitive. However, it wouldn't hurt to redo it in a month, just to me sure. I tend to trust Jim when he says he had read something. I also know that my vet will not test a cat for felv for at least a month after the vaccination. I would give him the suppliments just because they are good for him. Maybe I am not understanding the use of Acemannan. I thought it was more for the use of tumors. I think I would go with the ImmunoRegulin and the oral Ambrotose, which is similiar to Acemannan in many ways. Yes, I have brought in kittens, isolated them until two full weeks after the last felv vaccination. Now if you get a tiny baby, this may be a while. My vets rule of thumb is three months or three pounds before he will even start them. Then, at least three weeks between the two and you can see you have a couple of months now they are isolated. But it can be done. Sometimes getting two is nice, then they can play with each other while they wait! SO FAR I have had no breakthrough of the disease, but there are no guarentees. You have to realize there is a certain risk. But look at it this way. If you go to your local pound, where animals are kept for only 5-7 days before being destroyed, where will those kittens be at greater risk? Your house or the pound? The good news is NONE of the cat diseases are transmittable to dogs that I know of. (other than rabies) Dogs have their own diseases to deal with like canine distemper and parvo, so they need their shots to. So grab your husband, go to the pound and get that puppy!! and while you're there, take a glance at the kittens. It won't be long before the shelters will be overrun with them. Lastly, yes, cats can be positive and never have a symptom nor die from the disease. They are called carriers. barb -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:25:49 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: (Fwd) I just saw his picture Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I saw Benny's picture also. I have two siamese, one a sealpoint, but Benny looked a lot like a ragdoll. Larry has a longhaired ragdoll looking cat named Dante. Very pretty cats. Benny was a very special cat, like his mom. barb -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:48:50 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Wuzzy Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Jennifer, It is impossible to argue with your logic. There is a risk, no doubt about it. A rule for entering my house is the cats life must be in immediate danger. But the sentence I picked up on was "he may have been adopted" by another family. Or he may not of and his life would have ended there or he may have been adopted by someone who left him outside to get killed by a dog or a car. We don't know what could have happened, only what did. For Smudge, it ended sadly and for you to, but his life could have been much much worse or very short had you not taken him. He may never had known love or a kind hand. Here is Zachary's story, briefly. I went to the pound (our pound is horrible place for cats) scoping out kittens for a friend who wanted to know what kittens they had. Her boyfriend wanted one for Christmas. While there, I almost missed seeing this tiny little black kitten, litter stuck to his nose, barely strong enough to sit up and be seen. He was freezing and skinny. Needless to say, I snatched him up and rushed him to the vet. (after plunking down my $50 bucks, tho they were so careless I could have just walked out with him, they would never had noticed) They said he was 8 wks old and weighed a mere pound. He was in such bad shape they didn't think he would make the night, but I took him home, dropper fed him, put him in a cage over a register and hoped for the best. He made it thru the night, tho he didn't move a whisker. I thought he was dead when I reached in the cage. Anyway, he is now my "moose boy" at 13 and a half pounds. If I had not brought him home, he would have died that night I am sure. I did bring him into a house with positive cats, that's true. But he was better off here than there. Each case is different and has to played by ear. For some, it is better to have a shorter good life where they are loved, than to have to have no life at all. Ariel is my "wee Cat", she is one that contracted felv from the original carrier I had. I took her because she was to put to sleep because of an URI she had as a tiny kitten. (She was not vaccinated at the time) She is now three years old, positive but free of symptoms and happy. It's a hard choice to make. As long as the risks and the heartache it CAN bring are understood, you have to follow your heart. barb -------------------------------------- END OF PART 1: See Part 2 at: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/8025/9802262.txt