Thursday February 19, 1998 Part 4 15 Messages ====================================== Date sent: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:06:02 -0500 From: Brad To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: pedialyte Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Tammy, I use 1% milk since I know kittens have a hard time digesting milk. I have always used 1% mixed down with a little water. Now I mix it with a little pedialyte. Much Love, Kelly and the boys -------------------------------------- From: "Steve Lackow" To: Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Force Feeding Date sent: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:07:37 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Sardines liquefied, excellent! Really, really smelly. Great fish oils. Great idea Jim. -- Steve -------------------------------------- From: "Steve Lackow" To: Subject: Re: Pred Date sent: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:14:34 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Linda, send me your direct e-mail address. I think Russian has a chance, but i don';t want to proliferate messages any worse than I already am. To answer your question, this disease is all about cats killing off their own RBCs even if they are being produced. I believe the interferon therapy is the key because it disrupts replication. Tough call on antibiotics, like guesswork. As for the pred, Russian has an acute need now and it certainly is indicated. How long is too long? I would like to hear what more vets have to say on that one. It sounds to me like too much. -------------------------------------- From: DLMLLM@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:18:41 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Pred Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net My direct E-Mail is DLMLLM@aol.com. -------------------------------------- From: "James G. Wilson" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:20:43 +0000 Subject: Re: (Fwd) Force Feeding Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net > Sardines liquefied, excellent! Really, really smelly. Great fish oils. > Great idea Jim. Actually, that credit goes to Tammy Kennedy- I just forwarded her message :) In loving memory of Vyvyan: March 20, 1988 - August 15, 1997 James G. Wilson phaedrus@ctnet.net, phaedrus69@hotmail.com, felv@angelfire.com http://www.angelfire.com/il/felv/ http://www.litchfieldil.com/members/phaedrus/ http://www.fortunecity.com//skyscraper/sterling/20/niu.html -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:51:03 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: the energizer bunny Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net For those of you who don't know, the Lurker, is my much older brother. He and his wife are owned by 13 of their own. While all their are felv free and healthy, they do have a blind cat, found in a snow drift. He Kitten-Sat Merlin at the last family reunion, so has a special interest in his wellbeing. His wife is a treasure trove of information on nutrition and such, if we can get her to pipe in. How about it Bette?? sis -------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:00:16 -0500 From: Brad To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Beast Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net It seems everyone shares their trips to the vet. Here goes mine...I was sitting here earlier reading and responding to the all the e's and I had a feeling things weren't right with Beast. He was sneezing a lot and gripping my leg with his claws. I called the vet and took him in. My vet wasn't on, so I went to the vet that cared for my FIP cat 4 yrs ago. She said that even though his lungs were clear, he is dehydrated and the toxins are starting to take over his body. She recommended putting him down. Not on your life. He still has alittle in him...kinda like a can of Pepsi with a little left...you still want to drink the last bit. I knew if they drained his abdomen, he would feel better. If only for a few days. I am not being naive, I know this is not a cure. I need more time. I will not let him suffer. Besides, he is skinny again! Anyone have any suggestions as to beef him up quickly? I saw that my vet has NutriCal. Could that help him feel alittle better? I am hoping that this buys me some more time to help boost that immune system. I am feeding him pedialyte with Parsly (nat'l dieuretic). What will be will be...but I am not letting himgo with out a fight on either one of our parts. Thanks. Talk Soon... Much Love, Kelly and the boys -------------------------------------- From: "James G. Wilson" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:05:43 +0000 Subject: (Fwd) Body Builder Source- Dr. Myers Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:52:56 -0500 From: Tookie Myers Reply-To: ccmyers1@erols.com To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Body Builder Source I sent the prices, but not the address for obtaining Body Builder. M. W. Myers, D.V.M. 1015 Indian Creek Road Chesapeake VA 23322 -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:33:32 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Beast Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Kelly, Yikes, is your vet quick with a needle!! You will find, after a while, that I am one that comes up with some strange ideas on things to do. I will tell you a story. At least it's the story I heard all my life about my brother, the lurker, on this list. Since he is my much older brother, I was not there yet, but here goes. When he was, I think, about 8 or 9, he got spinal meningitis, now I'm really dating him, but penicillin was fairly new at the time and the Drs. told my parents, he is going to die.... BUT we have a wild idea. We would like to inject this new antibiotic into his spinal cord, where the spinal fluid is, and see if it helps. It could kill him, make him a veggie, we don't know what it will do, but if we do nothing, we KNOW he is going to die. Given those options, my folks decided to try the experiment. Needless to say, he is still here, father of three, married for, how long?? 35 years? and lurking on this list with his wife and 13 cats. So here is my wild idea. IF you feel Beast is going to die, there are no other options, what do you think about draining his belly and having them put in interferon? Now gastric secretions do kill interferon, but if injected into the abdominal cavity, not the stomach, would it help kill the FIP virus??? Would it slow it down?? I really have no idea what, if anything would happen. Your vet will prob think you are insane to even think of it. But from an antibiotic, dervived from mold, injected into spinal fluid, which was also a crazy idea, my brother is here today. I do recommend the Nutrical. I used it on Merlin with good results. He will not get fat, but he will get the nutriants he needs. Steve and/or Jim-- What are your ideas on this rather unorthadox approach? You guys are more informed on Interferon than I. I would also think it should be given orally as well. Maybe even add ImmunoRegulin, just for... Well, why not. Barb -------------------------------------- From: "Lynn Stickels" To: "felvtalk" Subject: Re: Beast Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:45:22 -0800 Reply-to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Kelly, I don't know all that much about your kitty, Beast but don't give up now! I use the Nutra-cal for my kitty, Stinker. Mix it with a little water and give it to Beast with a syringe if necessary along with some A/D mixed with water. He will be getting something good. Hang in there! When it seems the darkest, then comes the light, if just a little. What are you giving Beast at this time?..........Medications, vitamins, supplements??? I am thinking of you!...........................Lynn(Stinker) -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:52:27 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Drugs for Russian Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Linda, Even when Merlin was his worst, I only got up to turn him over and give him a quick rub. He was paralysed and couldn't move for himself. But I didn't feed him at night. I don't see that Russian is on ImmunoRegulin? I would give that as well. It is an immune system booster and she could use that. It can be given with interferon. It should be given IV, twice a week at first. While I have sort of listened to my vet, I found thru trial and error, that many times, we have to take matters into our own hands. The Ambrotose is a nutritional suppliment. I don't know if it is broken down by the liver, but I will bet the antibiotics she is one are. Just about everything is. The fat soluable vitamins A,D,E and K are also. If Russian is so ill that her liver will be destroyed by adding the Ambrotose, or the body builder being mentioned recently, she is very serious indeed. It may be time to bring out the big guns. Interferon, ImmunoRegulin, nutritional suppliments, a blood transfusion. You must mean Milligrams for the prednisone, not grams. At least I hope so. I would hold the steriods in reserve, as a last resort or just give in VERY small doses. But NEVER, NEVER just stop them once they have been started. Steriods must be weaned off, you can't just STOP taking them. That goes for humans as well as cats. Some people have even given B12 injections under the skin. Can't hurt. Has the epogen been ruled out entirely? It takes about a week to see results from the Epogen. I guess we have lost so many lately that I am a little frantic to keep our weak ones going. Unless Russian is on the verge of total liver and or kidney failure, I would go full steam ahead. Keep us informed how she is doing and I, (and Merlin, who is on his 11th life now) are rooting for you both. Barb -------------------------------------- From: "James G. Wilson" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Date sent: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:27:04 +0000 Subject: (Fwd) Re: Interferon given IP for FIP Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hey Barb and all, I forwarded your message to Dr. Myers to get his opinion of your suggestions. Here is what he has to say about them: ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- This is not a totally "off the wall" idea as interferon is actually designed to be used intravenously. However, FIP causes severe immune system reactions which is the actual cause of the pathology. When the disease has progressed to this point, removal of the virus may not stop the progression of the syndrome. Intravenous use of interferon may be preferable as the virus is probably distributed in more areas than just the abdomen. M. W. Myers, D.V.M. -------------------------------------- From: Newtanator@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:20:10 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Interferon given IP for FIP Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Jim, I thought it couldn't be given IV due to the fact that it is Human recombant Interferon?? Must get to bed. tgif. will write more tomorrow. barb -------------------------------------- From: "Claude Horstmann" To: Subject: Beast Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:51:29 -0500 Reply-to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Our battle cry, "I need more time"- that strikes deep into all of our hearts.. is Beast attempting to eat at all ? I slathered Nutri-Cal along Selena's arm and paw, and stroked and talked to her while she was licking it off. She was not pleased, but she WAS nourished. If that doesn't work, try the syringe gently. I too used Nutri-Cal and the A/D food liquefied, and added some soft cooked egg yolk. Loving,itself-is good medicine. Take care, .marilyn. -------------------------------------- Date sent: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:44:18 +0000 From: LawBet Organization: Home for Wayward Felines To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Beast Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Kelly, The story my sister Barb relates is true with only one very smal correction: I was 7 years old. Penicillin had never been used before to fight that particular disease. The company offered it free of charge just to see if it would work. Since I am writing this, it apparently worked. The moral of the story being: try anything!! If the cause is lost anyway, the only remaining direction is up ^^^. You have more time than my folks did. I was given less than a 50% chance of surviving the night!! You have more time than that. Books are written based on current knowledge. That's what vets use to write those books: current knowledge. I spent a considerable number of years in the US Army. We had books to guide us. The key word there is "guide". It gives us the general direction in which to go, but not the specific route. That specific route we must chose ourselves. Oftentimes a trailblazer is needed. That's how I see this group. You are all trailblazers. Those who never try, never fail; but conversely, they also never succeed. When all else fails, try the impossible. Larry (The Lurker) -------------------------------------- END