Sunday January 11, 1998 20 Messages ====================================== From: macat@webtv.net (belinda sauro) Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:44:20 -0800 To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: out of breath cat on immuno Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net When Joey was about 6 or 7 months old he did this, he is Not FeLV+, they diagnosed him to have the beginings of cardiomyapathy. He was put on medication and tested a year later and everything was normal. He panted after playing for only a few minutes, and if you listened to him breathe sometimes it sounded like he had fluid in his lungs. We where told that if caught early enough it could clear up, and since all his tests came back ok a year later it must be true. This is a serious heart condition, so you might want to have the kitty checked. Joey was only 4 or 5 months old when this was diagnosed. Happiness is being owned by cats... www.angelfire.com/ma/macat5 http://members.tripod.com/~macat5/index5.html ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:07:30 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: out of breath cat on immuno Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Michelle, Probably just out of shape. Is it chubby? I lost my Newton to a pulmonary tumor, but he was short of breath all the time. If the cat catches it's breath and calms down in a few minutes, it prob just needs more exercise. Barb ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:02:13 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: reaction to immunoregulin Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net My older cats (over a year) that got the immunoRegulin, didn't have much of a change at all, didn't make them sleepy or anything, but Merlin, it does make a little sleepy for a while. By the next day, that's gone. It could be the age, or it could be that the others had no sickness or symptoms at the time and Merlin was sick, and younger as well. But the sleepyness is a normal reaction I was told by the company that makes it. barb ---------------------------------------- From: "Lynn Stickels" To: "felvtalk" Subject: re: reaction to immunoregulin Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:25:16 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Cheri, The only reaction that I noticed with my kitty, Stinker was that it made him somewhat drowsy. But, after a few hours, it made the world of difference.:) Sometimes, it gives him a fever and the 1/4 of baby aspirin(every other day) really seems to help. Just thought this may help you a little..................Lynn(St ---------------------------------------- From: "Lynn Stickels" To: "felvtalk" Subject: re: treating positive healthy kitties Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:31:37 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Jennifer, I am really interested in how you treat your positive kitties that show no signs of sickness. I know I have one other kitty that is positive, but he is alright at this time. What can I do to give him the best of chances? I am also planning on getting my other kitties tested. Any information would really be helpful and appreciated..............Lynn(Stinker) ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:49:50 -0500 From: Brian and Jennifer Kleeman To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Baby food (Cheri & Carol) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Cheri & Carol- Just to make sure the whole baby food thing is clear. Check the labels for onion _powder_, not salt. It is the ONION that is dangerous to cats and is a common flavor in many meat baby foods (e.g. Gerber Beef Flavor baby food: although it does claim to be "unsalted", it does have onion powder.) Gerber may very well have changed their formulation since I've last looked (probably about three months ago) or they may have different formulas in different areas. Just be sure to check labels to be sure. No onion- then ok! I'm sure you guys understood the first time:) I just wanted to be clear because everyone seems to be focusing on the "salt" part which can be fine for cats. ONION on the other hand, can be deadly in a cat, especially one that is already anemic. Jennifer Kleeman Minoux Chartreux ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:17:26 -0500 From: Brian and Jennifer Kleeman To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: felv testing (Michelle) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Michelle! Watch the playing with your roommate's cat carefully. An anemic cat tires very easily. This can also be checked by looking at her gums, moist part of her eyelids and paw pads-- if they look white or more pale then the day before, (unless they are black, then it is more difficult), you might want to sweep your roommate's kitty up in your arms and take it to the vet! I think I wrote you an e-mail a while back screaming at your roommate for being such an idiot:) I can see how my decision to not separate probably seems contradictory. You might want to look at an earlier post I recently made to the list explaining in great detail how we came to the choice we did. In your situation I absolutely, positively would separate the cats. But my situation is a bit different. First of all, the boys and Yo-yo had been together nearly a year before we knew she was positive, not six weeks. This makes a difference because it impacts two things: (1) they've been exposed to the FeLV for a significantly long period of time; statistically it is likely that if they were going to contract it, it would probably have gotten it already; but obviously continued exposure does place them at constant risk according to some studies; (2) all three had bonded very well and were quute content together. Had we separated them, I knew from past experience that Yo-yo would probably become quite depressed. Also, the Boys have always taken a while to adjust to any change in circumstances. Separating Yo-yo from the Boys would cause all three great stress. Such stress could trigger any of them to become symptomatic. Although the Boys have tested negative for 9 straight months, the tests are not at all foolproof (as I learned the hard way with Yo-yo). There are studies where cats have been carrying the disease for years, but didn't come up positive for years. In other words, the Boys could be carriers at the least bit of stress could allow the FeLV to become active in their systems. There were no good choices. We kept all three together to maintain the consistancy of the happy healthy lives to which they had grown accustomed. There was no guarantee that separating the Boys could truly protect them any more than their own immunity and the vaccine had done over the prior 10 months. Furthermore, the risk to Yo-yo in taking away her loved companions was extremely substantial. I would like to mention that while I agree that keeping together positive and negative cats that have already been exposed to each other for many months or years can be a good thing, I whole heartedly, 100% disagree with throwing a new cat (vaccinated or not) into the mix of a positive and negative population, as some on this list have suggested. Unless the only option for this FeLV negative cat was euthanasia, I could not personally rationalize this option. IMHO, once that cat has been exposed to that population, it cannot be adopted to another home without a full explaination of the potential for it to have caught the disease. This, in turn, makes the cat less adoptable. I would also argue that when you have a population of more than one positive cat, separation does not pose the problems of loneliness that separating an only cat, like Yo-yo, could present. I would argue that your roommate's cat will probably be fine by herself, so long as she receives adequate human attention!, because she has spent less time with other cats. Just my two cents worth. Ultimately these decisions are very complicated and extremely personal. We all try to do what is best. As far as your roommate is concerned, I have to agree, it is too bad cats can't pick their owners:) Good luck! And keep us posted. Jennifer Kleeman Minoux Chartreux ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:27:03 -0600 (CST) From: "Nancy A. Schmall" To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: out of breath cat on immuno Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Michelle, I wonder if your roommate's FELV+ cat could be anemic? Since he's on Immunoregulin, probably not. The reason I ask is because before we knew our Panther was FELV+ my husband and I took a walk (and naturally the cats came along--we live on 11 acres in the country). On our way back, Panther just sat down in the grass and refused to come to our calls. I had to pick him up (he weighs 14-15#, although not fat, just big!) and carry him back to the house. It was following that experience, we found out he was anemic. Nancy ---------------------------------------- From: "Carol Gentry" To: Subject: Babyfood Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:48:43 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Jennifer- I checked the label. It doesn't show any onion anything. They do have it in different grades like 1 or2 , that kind of thing. I got Sasha the 2. I'm kind of stuck with Gerber right now because we have about a foot of snow and in Vancouver when it's like this nobody goes anywhere. I am going to cook up some chicken for her and probably put it in the blender. This way I will know what she is eating. I have to feed her the baby food one finger at a time. I feed her until she acts like enough is enough. She almost looks like maybe a little weight is coming back on her. A strange thing though and I would like your fedback. My tom, George has always been like her Mom. He loves on her and kisses her and plays with her. Everything was as usual until about two days ago and now he side steps her. Do you think he knows that something is wrong or maybe she just doesn't smell the same since she has been getting the Vitamins. What do you think and anybody else out there that has had this experience. Thanks Carol from Vancouver ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:48:46 -0500 From: Brian and Jennifer Kleeman To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: treating positive healthy kitties Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hi Lynn! I am so thrilled that you are making plans to have your others tested. That is absolutely wonderful! I pray that each and every one of them will be negative. Do check with your vet and see if he'll give you a "bulk" discount over time. My vet does his best to make his prices more reasonable. As far as treating healthy FeLV kitties I have two suggestions (one cheap, one more expensive): 1. Weigh the kitty every 4 to 6 weeks and write it down. Weight loss is one of the earliest signs that the FeLV is active. If the cat has lost weight (especially if more than a pound) I would seriously consider getting some blood work done. 2. Get a Complete Blood Count (CBC) at least twice a year or any time the cat has lost weight. This will allow the vet to monitor patterns in the kitty: especially important in an FeLV postive cat are the WBC (white blood cell count) and the PCV or hematocrit. If the WBC seems to be going up, then that can be a sign of infection; going down suggests immune suppression (both common in FeLV). A low PCV means the cat is anemic. The blood work helps us to see what the cat isn't showing physically yet. It gives you the option of deciding to start interferon or other treatment earlier than you might otherwise. We have chosen a very aggressive treatment in that we test Yo-yo's blood every three months. She is extremely laid back cat; very little bothers her. If the vet trips were stressful on her, I may be less inclined to test her so often-- or I would have the vet come to my home which a few vets in my area are willing to do. In Yo-yo's case all of her blood work has been in mostly normal ranges in the past year. We have noticed, however, that he white blood cells were declining and her PCV was increasing. My vet spoke with a virologist that studies FeLV who agreed that this could be a sign that the FeLV was becoming active. It was suppressing her immune system and producing way too many red blood cells. Both vets agreed that we should try the interferon (week on/week off) and see if it helped. Her blood work seemed better this time. Whether it is due to the interferon, who knows. But it does seem to be helping. All of this blood work can get very expensive, depending on the vet. We only have one postive cat right now and our vet has been very sensitive to our financial situation and our desire to help our cats. He has adjusted his prices and pay schedule accordingly. At the very least, I would suggest monitoring the kitty's weight and getting one CBC now, to get a reference point if the cat begins to lose weight later or shows other problems. I hope this is helpful. If you have any other questions, just ask! I'll try my best to answer. Jennifer Kleeman Minoux Chartreux ---------------------------------------- Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:58:49 -0500 From: Brian and Jennifer Kleeman To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Babyfood (Carol) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Carol, I am all too familiar with the baby food on a finger trick:) I think you're doing the right thing in feeding her whenever she wants, however much she wants. The chicken in a blender also sounds like a good idea. As far a George is concerned, it could be any number of things. She could smell differently, as you suggest. Or it could be the entire situation. He surely knows his mom isn't feeling well. She made have told him that she didn't like his affectionate cuddles right now. Often when cats don't feel well they dislike touch. When my Dempsey was so sick, Yo-yo would stand patiently beside me while I fed him baby food on my finger. She didn't try to get any of it or bother him, even though they were extremely close friends. She knew he felt awful. She also seemed to know that the licking and comforting she used to give him was not appropriate. It could be the same thing with George and his Mom. He is just trying to do what's best for her. Jennifer Kleeman Minoux Chartreux ---------------------------------------- From: "Carol Gentry" To: Subject: Sasha Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:59:37 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Hey Barb- A question. When I told you earlier about my toms affection for Sasha well that seems to have changed. A couple of days ago we noticed that he seems to just side step her. He sits and looks at her all the time but he won't go near her. It's kind of sad because evertime he walks in the room she perks up. Do you think he knows somethings wrong or do you think it's all the vitamins I'm giving her? Maybe she just smells different to him. As an update, I'm not giving her any Vitamin A or E. She gets everything else but that. I got kind of nervous about those two when someone suggested that it can affect or attack there kidneys. So far she is still drinking water and going potty. She hasn't pooped in days but her vet says not to be concerned about that for now. She is eating her baby food and I'm going to cook her up some chicken later today and probably put it in the blender. At least when I feed her I know what she's getting. Let me know on the other. Thanks, Carol in Vancouver ---------------------------------------- Forwarded From: PUFFERINO From: LadyL87709 To: PUFFERINO@aol.com Subject: Re: Hi Date sent: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:12:02 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) As I told you in my letter--there were TWO tests taken at the vets----both came back positive.We then deceided to have a blood sample sent out-to Cornell,I believe-the test came back Negative--it was also ran again and this test also came back NEGATIVE--of course we are delighted that our cat now appears to be fine---but this raises a question for others--if 2 tests were run on my cat at the vets and they were both wrong--what good is this test?Also how many people pursue it and have their cats test sent out?How many people out there have been told they had positive tests on their cat when in fact these tests are inaccurate-?-how many cats may have been dumped because of this false reading?And how many cats came back negative when in fact,they may be positive--I have been highly upset over this--I cried for days .Now I wonder about others--what about the tests they had on their cats?How many errors have been made?Thank you so much for being there.I know what I went through when I was told my cat was testing positive for aids-I was looking for alternative metods of treating her,and there were plenty online.It was also comforting to know that others were handling the same problem and they were there to talk to--I thank God that my cat is now ok--I prayed that she be spared and she was.--but now there should be posted info how the vet tests for this disease are highly INACCURATE. ---------------------------------------- From: "Carol Gentry" To: Subject: George and Sasha Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:31:58 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Thanks for the info Jennifer but George has always acted like the Mom not Sasha. I was wondering about the touch thing. She has always loved to have her head rubbed and scratched more then anything else and now when I do it she almost acts like she wishes I would just go away. I thought maybe we were pestering her to much. My husband is always talking to her or touching her and then she goes and hides under the table or chair. She seems to want to be in the same room but to be left alone. Thanks again for the info. Keep your fingers crossed that our weather changes so I can get her to the vet on Tuesday. My stepson said if he's not working, he'll take me. He has a big four wheel drive. Right now we have about 8 inches of snow and around here that's enough to make most people stay home. I don't have any chains for my van because stupid me, I didn't think we were suppose to get this stuff this year. Thanks again Jennifer. Carol from Vancouver ---------------------------------------- From: "Carol Gentry" To: Subject: Re: Hi Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:36:57 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I can't speak for anyone but myself but my kitties test was sent out and done in the office. I am hoping that this new vet she will be going to will test her again. The only thing that I have to go on so far is she has all the symptons of FELV+ but she's still with us and regardless, I would never put her to sleep. She is now in Gods hands and mine for whatever I can do for her. Carol from Vancouver ---------------------------------------- From: Newtanator Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:57:59 EST To: felvtalk@MailingList.net Subject: Re: Sasha Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Carol, I have also noticed the other cats, most of them, avoid Merlin. Ariel, the sweetest cat ever to breathe however, still comes over and bathes him. Ariel will bathe anyone who sits still to long, including me. I suppose animal behaviorist will say the others know the cat is ill and avoid it for that reason. But sick animals don't keep themselves as clean as usual and cats, at least mine, are very picky about that. So I do think smell has something to do with it. Truth is, there is so much about our little friends we don't know. What are they thinking? Their skin seems to get hypersensitive and Merlin, who used to love having his tummy scratched now doesn't want it. He still loves to lay in my lap, but seems to prefer not to pet a lot, but loves to have his chin scratched. I hope your weather clears so you can get out. Your'e right, here we are prepared and expect that kind of weather, so it's no big deal. Snow I can deal with, ice is another story. I'll take your snow, but no ice, thanks. Barb ---------------------------------------- From: "Cheri Gardiner" To: Subject: Re: reaction to immunoregulin Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:00:51 -0600 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Lynn, Thank you so much. I'm a very nervous mother tonight. Tomorrow is the big day...the first set of shots and interferon. I worry so much about my little ones. Thank you. I'll tell Dr. Wang about the baby aspirin. She's very receptive to new ideas. She has been great learning about FeLV. Cheri ---------------------------------------- From: "Carol Gentry" To: Subject: Re: Sasha Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:26:12 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Thanks Barb, again. I never thought about the bathing part. Sasha does clean herself still but not like she used to. Today we put her on the bookcase to look out the window. She's been there most of the day. A new place for her. She did get down to go potty and drink some water but after about 15 minutes, she jumped back up there by herself. I was amazed. I weighed her today so that I can start keeping track of her weight. I looked on her chart from the vet and on 1-5 she weighed 6lbs 8 oz. When I weighed her today she weighed 5 lbs. I know scales are different but I'm going to keep an eye on it anyway. Please do keep your fingers crossed that I can get out of her on Tuesday. We have about 7 inches right now and they are predicting about 2 more. My stepson came over today and said the roads were a little icy but they are predicting colder weather and if it freezes, everything will come to a screeching halt. I'll keep you posted and thanks again. Carol from Vancouver ---------------------------------------- From: "Lynn Stickels" To: "felvtalk" Subject: re: Stinker Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:45:54 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net I just wanted to tell you some happy news!:) My Stinker, who has been near death and then alive for the past year and a half has today been a new kitty! It is a miracle! He rolled over and actually played with me. I am cherishing these moments. Just thought I'd share that with you all..................Lynn(Stinker) ---------------------------------------- From: "Carol Gentry" To: Subject: Happy for Stinker Date sent: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:04:44 -0800 Send reply to: felvtalk@MailingList.net Lynn, that's great news about Stinker. I hope someday soon to share that kind of news with everyone about Sasha. She did have a good and really ate quiet a bit even if I had to feed her. For her that is very good news. Congrats again Lynn and keep up the good work. Carol from Vancouver ---------------------------------------- END